teh new opera

[Deathjam|wee]

opera 7.50 preview using it atm v good

[Snurx]

Will download the day im not to lazy.

[skiddy]

Why is this better than IE?

Give me reasons.

IE is installed with Windows
IE lets me browse the internet
IE lets me look at the forums
IE lets me download things
IE is simple
IE is fast
IE is familiar

As I've said, give me reasons.

[Snurx]

Opera is faster
Opera is not M$
Opera let you (easily) disable annoying things like Popups.
Opera let's you easily disable/enable other tings too!
Opera is not M$
Opera has Mouse Gestures!
Opera have easy-to change skins!
Opera is not M$

and so on

[Deciduous]

Reasons it's better than IE

It lets you browse the internet (actually the world wide web, you can't browse and irc server with IE can you now)
Opera lets you look at the forums.... blah blah others, simple, fast, and if you're not some kind of retard, as easy to use as IE
plus
tabbed browsing (removes the need for many windows)
you can block popups with the browser rather than a 3rd party app
it wont run any of the exploits targetted specifically at IE (which IE does without asking you a lot of the time)
It's not as fast as IE, this is because it isn't integrated with the OS, so it might be slower, but it's provides you with better security as a result (if you'd seen the recent outbreak of worms on IRC you'd understand)
it has a faster rendering engine than IE (apparently)
it's more standards compliant

[Snurx]

Yeah

That's kinda sad, but it's very small

[Deathjam|wee]

Originally Posted by skiddy

Why is this better than IE?

Give me reasons.

IE is installed with Windows [opera isn't shit]
IE lets me browse the internet [lol]
IE lets me look at the forums [so does opera]
IE lets me download things [opera has resume]
IE is simple [it buggy as ****]
IE is fast [ rofl]
IE is familiar [think of it as an adventure]

As I've said, give me reasons.

opera is not shit
opera lets u browse the interweb with style
opera has irc support (kinda) (Deathjam skiddy is a wanker) < see i did that just now from opera
opera is fast (it is actually true)
opera has mouse thingis (v handy)
opera has tabs (no more 8 million IE's open)
opera has a pop up blocker


i could go on but i cba

[Deathjam|wee]

Originally Posted by Flavius

doesnt Opera have a ban ad on the top ?

*cough* sound abit like http://www.altavista.com/ in a box *cough*

its handy

[KraKto$is8]

The new version has its own mail and IRC client too.
Also, opera lets you search google (and other search enginge) with the click of a button - no loading of the main page required.
I also love Opera's cache system, which I don't seem to be able to duplicate no matter what settings i use on IE.
Opera also is way cooler than IE, it sounds more cultured

[Nodrog]

doesnt seem to be anything there I particularly want (I dislike 'one-program-for-everything' web suites) and I dont like using beta releases so I'll stick with 7.23 for now

[NEWSBOT3]

opera mail doesnt work for me.

[Deciduous]

Can you get the new one without mail and irc, like Firebird is to Mozilla?

[NEWSBOT3]

Originally Posted by me

doesnt seem to be anything there I particularly want (I dislike 'one-program-for-everything' web suites) and I dont like software which feels far far to overcomplicated for what it is

[1-X]

I tried the beta 7.50 a few weeks ago, and found the new supposedly more intuitive interface confusing.

I uninstalled it and went back to 7.23. I could never go back to IE.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by skiddy

Why is this better than firebird?

Give me reasons.

firebird lets me browse the internet
firebird lets me look at the forums
firebird lets me download things
firebird is simple
firebird is fast
firebird is familiar

As I've said, give me reasons.

(slightly adjusted)

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by skiddy

Why is this better than IE?

Give me reasons.

IE is installed with Windows
IE lets me browse the internet
IE lets me look at the forums
IE lets me download things
IE is simple
IE is fast
IE is familiar

As I've said, give me reasons.

IE is slower, uglier, has no tabs, no support for multiple homepages, no mouse gestures, requires about 10 third party programs to make it functional, has inferior download management, crashes often (and takes the shell down with it when it does), has horrible ftp support, doesnt display PNG properly, has numerous secutiy problems, hasnt been updated in almost 3 years, and numerous other reasons.

The only possible argument for IE over Opera/mozilla is that people are more 'familiar' with IE, which is a dumb arguement in this case since a new webbrowser isnt exactly the hardest thing in the world to become acquainted with. IE is currently objectively inferior to just about every other modern web browser, by practically any standard you care to name.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

(slightly adjusted)

just try it and see what one you like better; its hard to say that one is objectively superior to the other, although I do prefer Opera. They are both excellent browsers in any case, its not like its IE or something.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

IE is slower, uglier, has no tabs, no support for multiple homepages, no mouse gestures, requires about 10 third party programs to make it functional, has inferior download management, crashes often (and takes the shell down with it when it does), has horrible ftp support, doesnt display PNG properly, has numerous secutiy problems, hasnt been updated in almost 3 years, and numerous other reasons.

Pfft, but apart from that
What are mouse gestures? [/dumb]

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Stew

Pfft, but apart from that
What are mouse gestures? [/dumb]

Being able to activate certain browser functions (eg "back"/"forwards"/"close tab"/"reload") by making certain movements with the mouse.

[Proteus]

I just downloaded Opera and it's nice.

(I didn't know there was a free version until now, and I'd rather spend my money on takeaways than web browsers.)

[Deathjam|wee]

heh i just found some thing it has a spell checker

nice one

[nickhall]

Originally Posted by Flavius

doesnt Opera have a ban ad on the top ?

Yes only in the un-registered version, mine has no ad banner.

Over IE it has so many more features most have been mentioned, apart from little things like ability to vew pages without pictures (very good on slow conections) 'paste and go' one of the best options ever invented. ability to zoom web pages, with a lot of options. The fact it allows you to save entire sesions so you can make it remember a number of websites you were looking at without having to bookmark each one (i find this very useful for uni reserch) it also saves your sesion if it crashes (which it does less than IE) or if the pc crashes it will ask you if you want to start where you last were upto.

Basicaly it just has a lot more features than IE.
As for Mozilla there isnt much differance as far as i know, i dont use mozilla tho as i dont really like it, is too much like Netscape was (i know thats what it and opera are) and i never really liked that.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Snurx

Opera is not M$

i never get this argument.

yeah, we're fighting against the capitalizt micro$oft empire by not using software which either we have already paid for or got for free! Er.. yeah, rock on!

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Phang

i never get this argument.

yeah, we're fighting against the capitalizt micro$oft empire by not using software which either we have already paid for or got for free! Er.. yeah, rock on!

How about the "IE is holding up the internet because MS continually refuse to update their browser to make it implement de facto standards, meaning website designers are loathe to use them because they dont want to alienate the 90% of their users who are luddite morons who refuse to upgrade from their archaic 1970's betamax webbrowser" arguement?

[Leshy]

The main reasoning why the "Opera is not Microsoft" argument works, is because Microsoft is using, or at least trying to use, it's market share on the browser market to push several of it's own functions through as standards. Many web developers are, often unwittingly, aiding Microsoft in this goal by designing web pages for Internet Explorer, using either buggered HTML that only MSIE manages to display somewhat correctly, or features that only work in MSIE.

The excuse they use is that such things 'work correctly in MSIE' and that 'everyone uses MSIE anyway', so they don't have to write valid HTML code or refrain from using browser-specific instructions. The fact that they are thereby actively forcing their users to use MSIE, not giving them the option to use whatever browser they want to, only serves to increase the market share that IE already has, leading back to the first point that development for other browsers is useless, because 'no one uses them anyway'.

As you should know from economics classes, a monopoly is a bad thing as it allows for the sole producer to stifle innovation and the ability to raise prices. The first part is already truth; Microsoft Internet Explorer has gone without updates for quite a while, whereas several other browsers have a whole load of features which give them useability far beyond what MSIE can offer (popup blocking, cookie managing, tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, faster rendering, all of these being a few notable features). Even large companies have complained to Microsoft about their lack of motion forward regarding support for Internet standards (http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-5088...?tag=nefd_lede).

As such, the lower the market share of MSIE gets on the browser market, the bigger the need will become for web developers to create cross-browser compatible sites that work for everyone, the more standards will move forward and the more need for innovation between competing browsers; something that can only work to the advantage of the users. That's why Opera not being a Microsoft browser is a valid argument.

- Edit: I hate Nodrog for just saying the same in three lines. -

[djbass]

I've tried Opera, and I still prefer to use IE.

Some points about your points:

Despite claims, Opera is not any faster that I could notice. I can only assume the possibility that those claiming IE is slow are running it on slow machines and possibly Opera does some GUI magic to speed up the rendering of its windows.

Popups, yes they are annoying. However not annoying enough that I care to get rid of them permanently. Mind you there are third party options for adding this functionality to IE and I've no doubt that future versions of IE will probably add this feature anyway. This is aside from the fact that some sites have genuine reason for popup windows that do enhance the functionality of the site.

Tabbed browsing. I hate it, it seperates the browser from the OS. I know for most of you that is the point of having tabbed windows, but for me I find it cripples my productivity because the windows no longer share a common interface with the rest of my windows programs. Instead of being able to alt-tab between each browser window and other running programs (btw I have a XP powertoy installed that lets me see the content of each window as I alt-tab them so it doesn't slow things down at all), I have to switch to the Opera window and then click on the tab.

Mouse gestures. Opera didn't invent this so it's nothing new. It is a nice feature but it's limited to only the browser itself. With the addition of Sensiva not only can you add mouse gestures to IE but you can use them for all of your programs and create custom commands to do just about anything you would normally do with Windows.

Stability. Since IE 5 and up I've never once had a stability issue with IE. In the very rare occasion that I've had trouble it's never cause my whole system to go down. Infact MS pretty much nailed that issue long ago so you're behind the times on that one.

FTP/IRC and other third party stuff. Lets not forget what a browser is shall we, these other features are nice but I still prefer to use individual programs for each of these.

Compliancy you say? Would now be a good time to point out MS are on the W3 Consortium. Their browser is compliant, but in addition to that it will also pickup on others sloppy code. To blame sloppy code on IE is taking a stab in the dark IMO. I like this feature because it means an otherwise crippled page is still readable. I think the burdon lies on the content producer and not the browser. If they can't be arsed to produce proper compliant code than they are only going to suffer from it through loss of clients who are using stricter browsers.

[Madina]

Originally Posted by djbass

Instead of being able to alt-tab between each browser window and other running programs (btw I have a XP powertoy installed that lets me see the content of each window as I alt-tab them so it doesn't slow things down at all), I have to switch to the Opera window and then click on the tab.

why not switch to the opera window then press Ctrl + Tab to switch between the pages? Surely the effort of moving 1 finger from Alt to Ctrl isnt too much

[djbass]

Originally Posted by Madina

why not switch to the opera window then press Ctrl + Tab to switch between the pages? Surely the effort of moving 1 finger from Alt to Ctrl isnt too much

When you're doing so in a hurry it can be, it's very easy to get two keys that are relatively close to each other mixed up. Plus when you Ctrl + Tab in Opera it doesn't give you a preview of each window does it? I just like my setup better because it provides a more consistant interface.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by djbass

Despite claims, Opera is not any faster that I could notice.

This may depend on a variety of things, but one of the main reasons I started using Opera in the first place was the speed with which it rendered pages when compared to MSIE. And I wouldn't call an XP1800+ on a cable connection slow, at the very least not for any browsing purposes.

Popups, yes they are annoying. However not annoying enough that I care to get rid of them permanently. Mind you there are third party options for adding this functionality to IE and I've no doubt that future versions of IE will probably add this feature anyway. This is aside from the fact that some sites have genuine reason for popup windows that do enhance the functionality of the site.

Popups were recently named the biggest annoyance together with e-mail spam on the Internet, and I am inclined to concur. I don't want to have to install a variety of third-party tools in order to get my browser not to do certain things I don't want it to (such as displaying unwanted popups, opening my CD tray, or make the browser window jump around the screen), when there are browsers out there that have these kind of features built in. As for the 'some websites require popups', well, that's exactly why Opera features the "do not open unrequested popups" option

Mouse gestures. Opera didn't invent this so it's nothing new.

That doesn't mean it's somehow not a good feature.

FTP/IRC and other third party stuff. Lets not forget what a browser is shall we, these other features are nice but I still prefer to use individual programs for each of these.

So do I. None of the built-in features of Opera make it a slow browser, so I'm not bothered. And otherwise, there's always Firebird

Compliancy you say? Would now be a good time to point out MS are on the W3 Consortium. Their browser is compliant, but in addition to that it will also pickup on others sloppy code.

Which is crappy and actually leads to sloppy coding. If you are coding a site and you see a display error in Mozilla or Opera, you know something isn't right. When you look at it in MSIE, you think it's all dandy. By the time most web developers have finished a site, and find out it doesn't work in anything but MSIE because the code is a big pile of doo doo, they can't be arsed to fix their mistakes, because hey, everyone uses MSIE anyway.

To blame sloppy code on IE is taking a stab in the dark IMO. I like this feature because it means an otherwise crippled page is still readable.

If the browser wouldn't accept the sloppy code, then the designer would have written the page correctly, and it wouldn't have been crippled for either MSIE or other browsers.

If a teacher gives his students an A for their tests, no matter how well they actually did, do you think the students will keep on learning their exams? And who would you blame for them not revising for their exams? Them, or the teacher?

[BoredOfThis]

Ok i hate people who hate MS products for hates sake even though IE is far superior and tabbing sucks as if the browser window crashes you lose all pages instead of just one so go back under you bridges and wait for Bill Gates to go past. IE > *

[MrL_JaKiri]

There's a notable speed difference on this computer (XP 2700+), so I dread to think what it would be like on anything else.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by BoredOfThis

Ok i hate people who hate MS products for hates sake even though IE is far superior and tabbing sucks as if the browser window crashes you lose all pages instead of just one so go back under you bridges and wait for Bill Gates to go past. IE > *

Actually, an IE crash removes all pages anyway. If you close Opera by accident, you at least have the possibility of opening 'last used pages', which takes you right back to where you were.

[BoredOfThis]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Actually, an IE crash removes all pages anyway. If.

Depends what type of crash most times its just 1 page.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by BoredOfThis

Depends what type of crash most times its just 1 page.

Not in my experience, and even if that was true, saying 'YOU LOSE ALL YOUR PAGES!' with opera isn't correct anyway.

[edit]

Remember people, this is a guy who's complaining that he can't run DX9 games (Half Life 2?) on his crappy elderly/cheap laptop.

[BoredOfThis]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Not in my experience, and even if that was true, saying 'YOU LOSE ALL YOUR PAGES!' isn't correct anyway.

[edit]

Remember people, this is a guy who's complaining that he can't run DX9 games (Half Life 2?) on his crappy elderly laptop.

The Laptop in question is an XP2200 32mb gfx and 512mb ram

Besides im using a dif pc atm XP3200 Barton o/c @ 3500 1gb PC3500 ram 256mb fx5700

so go back under your bridge

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by BoredOfThis

The Laptop in question is an XP2200 32mb gfx and 512mb ram

Besides im using a dif pc atm XP3200 Barton o/c @ 3500 1gb PC3500 ram 256mb fx5700

so go back under your bridge

I think the fact that you claimed that pc's had Voodoo cards in as standard a year or so ago means that you're a bit of an idiot.

And since you've made a point about opera which doesn't apply anyway as justification for using the slower browser, who's to say what you are?

Oh, and how does 'I'm using a fast pc!' counteract that you were complaining about not having T&L support on your lappy?

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by BoredOfThis

so go back under your bridge

Excuse me, but:
hahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahhaahhahahahhahahahha

[BoredOfThis]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Oh, and how does 'I'm using a fast pc!' counteract that you were complaining about not having T&L support on your lappy?

Playing PA has distorted time hence why i underestimated the time.

As you assumed i still used the laptop. Still most laptops that you buy at high street shops dont have t&l so hush

[BoredOfThis]

Originally Posted by Leshy

Excuse me, but:
hahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahhaahhahahahhahahahha

You wait 10mins for one troll and then 2 come along at once :/

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by BoredOfThis

Playing PA has distorted time hence why i underestimated the time.

As you assumed i still used the laptop. Still most laptops that you buy at high street shops dont have t&l so hush

No I didn't, I said that you were complaining that you couldn't run T&L games on your laptop, which you did.

[BoredOfThis]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

No I didn't, I said that you were complaining that you couldn't run T&L games on your laptop, which you did.

Idd but why did you even mention that, it is in no way relevant to said topic now if you want to score points go attack the nubs on SA forums.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by BoredOfThis

Idd but why did you even mention that, it is in no way relevant to said topic now if you want to score points go attack the nubs on SA forums.

Because you're a bit of an idiot when it comes to computers.

[BoredOfThis]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Because you're a bit of an idiot when it comes to computers.

If one mistake mades someone an idiot then im sure everyone is an idiot including you.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by BoredOfThis

If one mistake mades someone an idiot then im sure everyone is an idiot including you.

Given that I've only seen you talking about computers 2 times, then and here, and both times you were wrong....

[BoredOfThis]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Given that I've only seen you talking about computers 2 times, then and here, and both times you were wrong....

Not really wrong i just have a different view point, sorry i got some sort of mad idea that we live in a democracy and are entititled to a point of view.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by BoredOfThis

Not really wrong i just have a different view point, sorry i got some sort of mad idea that we live in a democracy and are entititled to a point of view.

hhahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Nodrog]

another empirical validation of 3 fox rule.

[I am Idler]

Opera is shit

Internet explorer never crashes and hence it's greater than opera

[djbass]

Originally Posted by Leshy

This may depend on a variety of things, but one of the main reasons I started using Opera in the first place was the speed with which it rendered pages when compared to MSIE. And I wouldn't call an XP1800+ on a cable connection slow, at the very least not for any browsing purposes.

It seemed to me that Opera was using an old Netscape trick of pre-fetching and rendering the page before it is displayed giving the illusion of faster loading. I noticed this most by watching the status bar as the page loaded. IE is more of a just-in-time renderer displaying each element as it is loading. I'm running a P4 1.8 with a 512/128 ADSL connection.

I don't want to have to install a variety of third-party tools in order to get my browser not to do certain things I don't want it to (such as displaying unwanted popups, opening my CD tray, or make the browser window jump around the screen), when there are browsers out there that have these kind of features built in. As for the 'some websites require popups', well, that's exactly why Opera features the "do not open unrequested popups" option

Like I said, I would be surprised if eventually MS did not make this a feature of their browser as well, till then I'm not that worried about it. My other point was in relation to unrequested popups that still enhance functionality of a website. Ergo that feature is prohibitive to that. Those features were put there to be used, it's a shame people have taken them on to be exploited but hey that's the nature of stupidity.

Which is crappy and actually leads to sloppy coding. If you are coding a site and you see a display error in Mozilla or Opera, you know something isn't right. When you look at it in MSIE, you think it's all dandy. By the time most web developers have finished a site, and find out it doesn't work in anything but MSIE because the code is a big pile of doo doo, they can't be arsed to fix their mistakes, because hey, everyone uses MSIE anyway.
If the browser wouldn't accept the sloppy code, then the designer would have written the page correctly, and it wouldn't have been crippled for either MSIE or other browsers.

Any web developer worth their salt will check the page for compatibility with more than just the one browser. By not doing so they are only shooting themselves in the foot. If they are following the standard then it wont be a problem anyway. If you really want to lay blaim on anything other than the web developer it should be towards all the HTML editors out there, they do more damage than any other factor. They promote extremely bad HTML because 9/10 times the editor mangles the code into an unrecognisable form, and it makes it far too easy for people with no design skills to generate some festy brightly coloured teen-speak covered musical toting hell-hole of a site.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by djbass

My other point was in relation to unrequested popups that still enhance functionality of a website.

There are none.

It's like javascript. People always say things like "just because its abused, doesnt mean that there are no valid uses of it", and then fail to produce any of these 'valid uses' when challenged. This is because they do not exist. Anyone who puts unrequested (or even requested) popups into their site is an incompetant fool with no idea about webpage design, or user interface construction in general.