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30 Mar 2005, 01:21
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#1
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Bored
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NASA answers age old question
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30 Mar 2005, 01:46
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#2
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Insanity Prawn Boy!
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Re: NASA answers age old question
If a cat ALWAYS lands on it's feet
and toast ALWAYS lands butter side down,
what happens when you tie a piece of buttered toast onto the back of a cat (butter side up) and throw it up in the air?
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30 Mar 2005, 01:53
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#3
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so f*cking zen
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Re: NASA answers age old question
The did experiments to find out why toast always lands butter side down.
The answer was something to do with the fact that it starts butter side up and only has enough time to flip a certain number of times due to the height it starts its fall at.
Cats need a minimum distance to flip to their front from their back btw.
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30 Mar 2005, 02:09
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#4
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Banned
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
If a cat ALWAYS lands on it's feet
and toast ALWAYS lands butter side down,
what happens when you tie a piece of buttered toast onto the back of a cat (butter side up) and throw it up in the air?
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Antigravity.
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30 Mar 2005, 10:33
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#5
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I am an idiot
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
The did experiments to find out why toast always lands butter side down.
The answer was something to do with the fact that it starts butter side up and only has enough time to flip a certain number of times due to the height it starts its fall at.
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The fact that butter (or anything spread on it) makes it heavier has nothing to do with it I suppose.
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30 Mar 2005, 10:35
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#6
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Banned
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Shaka Hislop used to work for Nasa.
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30 Mar 2005, 10:41
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#7
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Registered User
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTester
The fact that butter (or anything spread on it) makes it heavier has nothing to do with it I suppose.
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no. unless you are Kurashima, you normally only spread at most a millimetre or so of butter on the bread. the mass of the butter will be insignificant and only change the centre of mass slightly. given that the centre of mass is so close to the butter layer, the additional torque as a result of the butter will be minimal and will not contribute significantly to the spin of the butter which will be primarily dominated by the start conditions and aerodynamic considerations.
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30 Mar 2005, 10:47
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#8
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I am an idiot
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
no. unless you are Kurashima, you normally only spread at most a millimetre or so of butter on the bread. the mass of the butter will be insignificant and only change the centre of mass slightly. given that the centre of mass is so close to the butter layer, the additional torque as a result of the butter will be minimal and will not contribute significantly to the spin of the butter which will be primarily dominated by the start conditions and aerodynamic considerations.
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Well, I am no physist - I cant even spell it - but if the center of mass is changed even slighly, gravity will pull the heavier mass downwards faster then the lighter mass, hence causing a spin and the bread to land butter side down. It might only be a small change to the bread mass but enough to do this, surely?
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30 Mar 2005, 10:56
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#9
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Bored
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Re: NASA answers age old question
did any of you actually watch the video?
The cat spinning round and round was funny
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30 Mar 2005, 10:58
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#10
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Stupid cat gone done spin.
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30 Mar 2005, 11:01
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#11
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Rebellion Rebelleader
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: NASA answers age old question
theres something called angular momentum. just like normal momentum, angular momentum is a if something is spinning, it will keep spinning unless a certain force makes it stop spinning. when you let bread drop from a table, normally one side goes down first giving bread its angular momentum. the combination of the size of bread, the weight of bread and the gravitational force of the earth ensures that bread will make a whole spin in about 3 meters and a half spin in about 1,5 meters. unfortunatly for us, the average tableheight will make bread always fall on the buttered side
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30 Mar 2005, 11:06
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#12
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Registered User
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTester
Well, I am no physist - I cant even spell it - but if the center of mass is changed even slighly, gravity will pull the heavier mass downwards faster then the lighter mass, hence causing a spin and the bread to land butter side down. It might only be a small change to the bread mass but enough to do this, surely?
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not enough though, you have to take aerodynamics and torque into account. The butter can just be considered as a slightly thicker slice of bread.
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I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
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30 Mar 2005, 11:28
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#13
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Lonely analytic
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,390
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical Edward
no. unless you are Kurashima, you normally only spread at most a millimetre or so of butter on the bread. the mass of the butter will be insignificant and only change the centre of mass slightly. given that the centre of mass is so close to the butter layer, the additional torque as a result of the butter will be minimal and will not contribute significantly to the spin of the butter which will be primarily dominated by the start conditions and aerodynamic considerations.
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It´s a simple game of aerodynamics here (I´m sure someone bright like MrL knows how to google for the name of the principle) but the buttered side is flat (no air turbulence) and the other side not (creating turbulence). Aeroynamically falling toast looks like a sort pyramid, where the tip will want to be up, hence the buttered side it falls down on.
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30 Mar 2005, 12:36
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#14
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Rawr rawr
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrasyn
It´s a simple game of aerodynamics here (I´m sure someone bright like MrL knows how to google for the name of the principle) but the buttered side is flat (no air turbulence) and the other side not (creating turbulence). Aeroynamically falling toast looks like a sort pyramid, where the tip will want to be up, hence the buttered side it falls down on.
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Indeed. Assuming that there are no external forces applied to the bread&butter, if you drop it, it will fall down in the exact position as when you released it. The angular momentum Rikard mentioned would be zero.
The angular momentum, which will cause the bread to flip over, will not change unless an external force is applied. This external force can not be gravity, because that force works on the centre of mass, which also happens to be the centre of the angular motion (no rotation can be forced if the force is applied to the centre of the rotation). Therefore the force causing the angular velocity must be something else... air resistance... or aerodynamics of the bread and butter.
My educated guess would the difference in density of the two materials (bread and butter) that will cause the angular velocity. Because the density of the bread is smaller, the air resistance will have a larger effect on the the part of the object with the piece of bread. The bread will in essence fall slower, because it's slowed down harder by the air. So the butter, on which the air resistance has a smaller effect, will fall first.
Compare this with a pen stuck on a balloon. If you drop that the pen will fall first, because the balloon is slowed down harder by the air.
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30 Mar 2005, 12:45
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#15
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Registered User
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrasyn
It´s a simple game of aerodynamics here (I´m sure someone bright like MrL knows how to google for the name of the principle) but the buttered side is flat (no air turbulence) and the other side not (creating turbulence). Aeroynamically falling toast looks like a sort pyramid, where the tip will want to be up, hence the buttered side it falls down on.
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you are going too far with the aerodynamics here. The presence of the butter will not have a significant amount of effect on the drag of the buttered side, and even if it did, it would only be effective when both sides of the toast are exposed to the airflow. The reason a pyramid falls flat side first is mostly because the centre of mass is located closer to the flat base of the pyramid than the tip. as has already been pointed out, the main factor here is just the toast spinning in the first place, the aerodynamics only really involves the angles of the faces wrt the direction of motion as it falls through the air.
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I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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30 Mar 2005, 12:46
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#16
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lolly roffle
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,514
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Good god you dont need to study this for a phd to be able to understand it. How2 explained it in 3 minutes years ago on TV .
As someone said earlier if you sit at a 3 metre high table your bread will land butter said up.
I laughed at the cat btw Ste .
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30 Mar 2005, 12:48
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#17
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Lonely analytic
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Re: NASA answers age old question
heh this is getting rediculous but okay lol
I think both sides get exposed as soon as it tipples, but frankly, your explanation looks so good I´ll go with that one, true or nay.
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30 Mar 2005, 12:49
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#18
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Registered User
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Re: NASA answers age old question
aah yes, the cat. the cat was fundamentally excellent, though I do regret becoming involved in the issue of falling toast. I shall now retire from such toast based discussion, partially due to the lack of quality bread in Germany.
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I think it's time we blow this scene, get everybody and the stuff together..........
ok 3..... 2..... 1.. let's jam
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30 Mar 2005, 13:27
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#19
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I am an idiot
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Re: NASA answers age old question
what would happen if the bread was buttered and had marmite on it and it fell off the table?
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30 Mar 2005, 13:59
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#20
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Rawr rawr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Upside down
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrasyn
heh this is getting rediculous but okay lol
I think both sides get exposed as soon as it tipples, but frankly, your explanation looks so good I´ll go with that one, true or nay.
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I remember a discussion on the gamedev forums about the gravitational effect of a barbell shaped body in space. Would other bodies be attracted to the outer ends of the barbell, or to the centre of gravity of the barbell. If you want to read something rediculous, read that thread. 20 pages of physics theory and contradictions.
(I can't find the thread because the search option there is disabled)
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30 Mar 2005, 14:06
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#21
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I am an idiot
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Can I just say, that video is cruel by the way. That cat doesnt look like it is comfortable and the way it is 'thrown' at the wall is disgusting.
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30 Mar 2005, 14:36
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#22
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Re: NASA answers age old question
agree with crashtester. Also cant believe how long it took someone to make that point
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30 Mar 2005, 14:46
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#23
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Freedom Fanatic
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Re: NASA answers age old question
very amusing, I dont like cats at all.
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30 Mar 2005, 14:56
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#24
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Next goal wins!
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Re: NASA answers age old question
me either...
the dastard managed to continually land on his feet though. You cant deny cats are good at some things.
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30 Mar 2005, 15:14
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#25
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Rebellion Rebelleader
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Indeed. Assuming that there are no external forces applied to the bread&butter, if you drop it, it will fall down in the exact position as when you released it. The angular momentum Rikard mentioned would be zero.
The angular momentum, which will cause the bread to flip over, will not change unless an external force is applied. This external force can not be gravity, because that force works on the centre of mass, which also happens to be the centre of the angular motion (no rotation can be forced if the force is applied to the centre of the rotation). Therefore the force causing the angular velocity must be something else... air resistance... or aerodynamics of the bread and butter.
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If you drop it as in hold both sides and release it. it wont start spinning and it wont fall on the buttered side (try it!) however, bread never "drops" it topples. one side goes down first and for a moment gravity on one side is being stopped by the table while the other side is not (as neatly illustrated here ) thats what gives bread its angular momentum
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we look a lot tougher then we are
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eXilition - LCH - Destiny - Conspiracy - Night Witches - eXcessum
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30 Mar 2005, 15:23
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#26
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Affectionate Nickname
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Dace was right. I saw it on How2 when I was 11.
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30 Mar 2005, 15:25
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#27
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Rawr rawr
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikard
If you drop it as in hold both sides and release it. it wont start spinning and it wont fall on the buttered side (try it!) however, bread never "drops" it topples. one side goes down first and for a moment gravity on one side is being stopped by the table while the other side is not (as neatly illustrated here ) thats what gives bread its angular momentum
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Perhaps the effect of the butter is not significant enough to initiate the spin, but I still believe it is a factor, as the balloon+pen experiment indicates.
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30 Mar 2005, 16:59
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#28
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Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
agree with crashtester. Also cant believe how long it took someone to make that point
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30 Mar 2005, 17:13
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#29
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Registered User
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Lies. They air-brushed the washing machine out.
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30 Mar 2005, 19:44
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#30
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Manga Kitten is back!
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Re: NASA answers age old question
It has nothing to do with the mass of butter....
It has to do with the fact that the toast isn't let go, but it slides out of the plate. It slides outside untill it's center of equilibrium passes over the edge of the plate, and because of that it flips over. Taking in consideration the height that people carry plates and the height of surfaces where the plates are laid upon, there's no time for the toast to complete one (or n) full flip and land butter up.
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30 Mar 2005, 21:12
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#31
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Banned
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Re: NASA answers age old question
This thread could have been amusing. Instead it's about as funny as the 95th series of friends.
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30 Mar 2005, 22:25
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#32
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Affectionate Nickname
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Re: NASA answers age old question
So it wont be making it to clownshoe corner then. Never mind, eh?
p.s., the cat was funny, but somewhat distressing.
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31 Mar 2005, 09:57
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#33
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Born Sinful
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTester
what would happen if the bread was buttered and had marmite on it and it fell off the table?
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God would thank you for sparing one of his children the torture of eating the marmite.
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31 Mar 2005, 11:00
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#34
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Bored
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Re: NASA answers age old question
what happens if you butter both sides :eek:
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31 Mar 2005, 11:45
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#35
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I am an idiot
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Re: NASA answers age old question
Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
God would thank you for sparing one of his children the torture of eating the marmite.
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You either love it or you hate it, and I LOVE IT DUDE!
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