[Declined] Get rid of galaxies, they do more harm than good

[Banned]

Make alliance ETA -2, make it stack with cluster ETA, and cut out galaxies.

[TheRat]

I think that could make for a very interesting change indeed.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by TheRat

I think that could make for a very interesting change indeed.

To present some arguments here:

Part of the justification for galaxies is that they lead to social interaction between new and old players. However, almost all old players fakenick during the relationship building period of the round, and they exile newbies who don't show high activity and keenness very quickly.

Galaxies also make attacking much more difficult, in part because you can pool fake fleets almost infinitely.

With the proposed changes the fastest defenses will still be ETA 5 (incluster alliance), but they will come from the common team resource: the alliance.

The benefit of cooperating with the cluster will be much higher: all of the sudden it's your only defense pool outside the alliance. And since the cluster is larger, it's more likely to match compatible parties.

[Desse]

Brilliant Idea. Ofc it will require a lot of activity to notice your incoming, unless you make some sort of alliance "alert"

[Kal]

this would make activity to important without an alliance gal status

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Desse

Brilliant Idea. Ofc it will require a lot of activity to notice your incoming, unless you make some sort of alliance "alert"

There probably would need to be one of those.

[G.K Zhukov]

But there has been no social building in the clusters for rounds too..

[Banned]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

But there has been no social building in the clusters for rounds too..

Naturally if you ignore some of the points I made you can find holes in others.

[furball]

I like the idea.

I think Banned has been unlucky with his buddy pack this round (a guess), having got himself into a strong one then ended up in a galaxy full of newbies. I understand this, because exactly the same has happened to me. No-one wants to exile because then the buddy pack will be split up (which no-one wants) - but this galaxy isn't going anywhere.

Meanwhile, you can't build up a rapport with your new gal mates because you're constantly hiding from them. This round is the first in which I've fake-nicked, and tbh it's not unlike a chastity belt. You want to be able to talk openly with new people (especially when there's more people that you don't know in the gal than last round), but you're restricted. Annoying as hell.

Furthermore, the two buddy packs can have widely differing points of view, e.g. on use of the galaxy fund, and on galaxy attacks. Yep, that's right, the other buddy pack in my gal wants to have galaxy attacks. My buddy pack friends said no way, and now we don't get on (there simply was no room to compromise).

So I propose a return to the Round 12 galaxies, which led to such a good round - 5 private players in a galaxy of 10. Fake-nicking is less annoying because you're not hiding from the other 4 private players, just from randoms. At least, this is the alternative I present to you all, because another round of this would drive me insane.


As for the suggestion itself, it would totally change PA. Not that this is a bad thing, but it would. But I like the suggestion, and would prefer it to anything not involving a return to r12 galaxy format.

How big do you envisage a cluster being?

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Banned

Make alliance ETA -2, make it stack with cluster ETA, and cut out galaxies.

Please tell me your kidding, seriously this idea is so poor I have a sudden urge to neg rep you and seeing as i consider you one of the better posters on these forums thats saying something

[Banned]

Originally Posted by wakey

Please tell me your kidding, seriously this idea is so poor I have a sudden urge to neg rep you and seeing as i consider you one of the better posters on these forums thats saying something

I'm glad you presented such excellent points for your opinion, I look forward to debating with you again in the future!

[Cochese]

An interesting idea...

My main point of concern is one already mentioned; I think for this to work, you would definetly need an alliance alert of some kind.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Nonentity

I think Banned has been unlucky with his buddy pack this round (a guess), having got himself into a strong one then ended up in a galaxy full of newbies.

No.

Meanwhile, you can't build up a rapport with your new gal mates because you're constantly hiding from them. This round is the first in which I've fake-nicked, and tbh it's not unlike a chastity belt. You want to be able to talk openly with new people (especially when there's more people that you don't know in the gal than last round), but you're restricted. Annoying as hell.

Yes.

Furthermore, the two buddy packs can have widely differing points of view, e.g. on use of the galaxy fund, and on galaxy attacks. Yep, that's right, the other buddy pack in my gal wants to have galaxy attacks. My buddy pack friends said no way, and now we don't get on (there simply was no room to compromise).

Yes.

So I propose a return to the Round 12 galaxies, which led to such a good round - 5 private players in a galaxy of 10. Fake-nicking is less annoying because you're not hiding from the other 4 private players, just from randoms. At least, this is the alternative I present to you all, because another round of this would drive me insane.

Last round my galaxy's nicklist leaked during early game because we didn't bother fakenicking with our random galmates. If one wants to play seriously, this isn't an option.

As for the suggestion itself, it would totally change PA. Not that this is a bad thing, but it would.

Yes.

How big do you envisage a cluster being?

I don't know. Small enough that an alliance can't bunker up, but big enough that there's enough room for some incluster cooperation.

[Kal]

I'm against this idea, and banned u can;t complain abotu wakey not giving good reasons when you have not.

As to buddy packs, yes there is the problem with conflicting galaxies, and yes people arn't goign to have the amazing super active gaalxies they had in previous rounds - BUT I think fake nicking is rather sad and pathetic, and I gave it up rounds ago. Fake nicking puts off new players and makes it hard for a galaxyy to build trust.

[furball]

Originally Posted by Nonentity

So I propose a return to the Round 12 galaxies, which led to such a good round - 5 private players in a galaxy of 10. Fake-nicking is less annoying because you're not hiding from the other 4 private players, just from randoms. At least, this is the alternative I present to you all, because another round of this would drive me insane.

Originally Posted by Banned

Last round my galaxy's nicklist leaked during early game because we didn't bother fakenicking with our random galmates. If one wants to play seriously, this isn't an option.

I was saying that you still fake-nick, but you know the rest of your galaxy anyway, so it doesn't get as annoying. I agree that using your real nick still isn't an option.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Kal

I'm against this idea, and banned u can;t complain abotu wakey not giving good reasons when you have not.

Originally Posted by Banned

To present some arguments here:

Part of the justification for galaxies is that they lead to social interaction between new and old players. However, almost all old players fakenick during the relationship building period of the round, and they exile newbies who don't show high activity and keenness very quickly.

Galaxies also make attacking much more difficult, in part because you can pool fake fleets almost infinitely.

With the proposed changes the fastest defenses will still be ETA 5 (incluster alliance), but they will come from the common team resource: the alliance.

The benefit of cooperating with the cluster will be much higher: all of the sudden it's your only defense pool outside the alliance. And since the cluster is larger, it's more likely to match compatible parties.

As to buddy packs, yes there is the problem with conflicting galaxies, and yes people arn't goign to have the amazing super active gaalxies they had in previous rounds

Which in turn means that personal activity is a lot more important. Why do you keep saying that skill should be more important than activity, then turn around and support things that blatantly make activity more important?

- BUT I think fake nicking is rather sad and pathetic, and I gave it up rounds ago. Fake nicking puts off new players and makes it hard for a galaxyy to build trust.

You realize that in many top alliances this will get you put on 'no defense' lists?

Yes, it puts off new players, yes it makes it harder for galaxies to build trust. But as long as it is the superior tactical action, anyone playing seriously has to obey that heuristic.

Now, if you remove that tactical advantage, people will behave differently. Do you see what I'm getting at?

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Banned

I'm glad you presented such excellent points for your opinion, I look forward to debating with you again in the future!

I didnt put any points across because I simply didnt believe you were making this suggestions, i actually thought maybe your account had been hacked and wasnt about to start justifying reasons against an idea .

Anyway a few problems

1) Alliances are already vital to success or even survival in this game and in many ways are suffocating the game (and i'm not anti alliance, i think alliances do add alot). Your proposing to make it even more vital and giving them a greater stranglehold on the game

2) Smaller alliances sometimes depend on galaxies to take some of the slack. Most smaller alliances would seriouslt struggle without the galaxy help. Remember that smaller alliance by their nature pick up less refined players who either arent yet fully versed in the games skills or arent as active so not only do they get attack on a more regular basis but also offer less aid for the alliance

3)Clusters often only work to aid the big alliances. Currently if your in a smaller galaxy without a membership to a reasonably good alliance then you can expect to see yourself shafted when the good half of the cluster splits off into its elite group and hence doesnt offer defence to the other half. Without galaxies this would be even worse, as it is you can get lucky and see your whole galaxy in the effective group of galaxies because of a single player, now it will be player by player and without the right alliance membership or a decent score (which without the right alliance membership is hard enough now and in this system even harder)) you wont get in.

4) The cluster bonus is somewhat unfair in this situation. If your WP you have 99 members which makes the chance of being in the same cluster as someone else in your alliance alot greater than say ROCK who have 47. You once again handing the big alliances another huge advantage.

5) You seem to be blaming the fake nicking on the galaxy setup rather than the true cause. The true cause is the alliances themselves. Why do they need players to fake nick. They dont but one alliance does it and everyone follows suit. At some point they have to reveal their alliance anyway to allow their galaxy to report incoming so what difference is a few days going to really make. Show some faith in your galaxy like we used to do in the past, 99 out of 100 people in your galaxy will not be looking to screw you over as they want to do well also which means a strong galaxy, and if they really want to screw you over they can do that anyway so what difference does it make.

6) Casual players - Yes there are casual players in the game that just want to have a bit of fun, they are willing to take losses and know they arent going to win. However these players already struggle to get to grips with this game as you need a good alliance too much. You poetntially removing their own source of defence and theres only so much bashing which you cant respond to before the game becomes a chore rather than fun.

Theres more things swirling around my head but tbh its such a short sighted, self indulgiant idea that only considers the top players that its not worth wasting any more time than neccesary on justfiying why its bad

[lokken]

Some points:

1) newbies shouldn't be cast out on their own. Even when there are newbies together, they help each other, defend each other, get each other defence etc. To put them at a further disadvantage doesn't seem to scan right.

2) the obvious compromise to me is totally random galaxies and restrict the power to exile - it would be down to individual's personal planet playing and team working skills to build an effective working galaxy.

[noah02]

Originally Posted by lokken

2) the obvious compromise to me is totally random galaxies and restrict the power to exile - it would be down to individual's personal planet playing and team working skills to build an effective working galaxy.

That I could never agree with.
I like the 3 man bp thing because at least out of 15 ppl 3 ppl you know and trust and can work with will be there.
To have a whole galaxy of inactives with no choice of exhile? Wouldnt catch me paying for that.

[Kal]

i'm very tempted to remove exile and force people to work together

[Banned]

Originally Posted by wakey

Anyway a few problems

1) Alliances are already vital to success or even survival in this game and in many ways are suffocating the game (and i'm not anti alliance, i think alliances do add alot). Your proposing to make it even more vital and giving them a greater stranglehold on the game

No. I propose to make them more central to alliance player's games. Less so to non-alliance players. After all, people are much less likely to get caught up in other poeple's alliance wars. If you don't want to be in an alliance, talk to your cluster. With so many people there, you're more likely to meet someone willing to defend you.

By making the alliance a more powerful defensive asset than the cluster, one prevents the massive cluster size from having too much of an effect on alliance players.

2) Smaller alliances sometimes depend on galaxies to take some of the slack. Most smaller alliances would seriouslt struggle without the galaxy help. Remember that smaller alliance by their nature pick up less refined players who either arent yet fully versed in the games skills or arent as active so not only do they get attack on a more regular basis but also offer less aid for the alliance

But now these players have a cluster that can help them.

3)Clusters often only work to aid the big alliances. Currently if your in a smaller galaxy without a membership to a reasonably good alliance then you can expect to see yourself shafted when the good half of the cluster splits off into its elite group and hence doesnt offer defence to the other half.

What? 'Elite' players barely pay attention to clusters anymore.

4) The cluster bonus is somewhat unfair in this situation. If your WP you have 99 members which makes the chance of being in the same cluster as someone else in your alliance alot greater than say ROCK who have 47. You once again handing the big alliances another huge advantage.

I think you missed round 12.

5) You seem to be blaming the fake nicking on the galaxy setup rather than the true cause. The true cause is the alliances themselves. Why do they need players to fake nick. They dont but one alliance does it and everyone follows suit. At some point they have to reveal their alliance anyway to allow their galaxy to report incoming so what difference is a few days going to really make. Show some faith in your galaxy like we used to do in the past, 99 out of 100 people in your galaxy will not be looking to screw you over as they want to do well also which means a strong galaxy, and if they really want to screw you over they can do that anyway so what difference does it make.

No. Alliances these days have members use their fake-nicks to set up channels locked down with +is. They then add a relay bot to that channel, so that galmates can report incoming to the channel and it's relayed anonymously to the alliance. This has been done for several rounds. It's not that I don't trust my galmates, it's that I don't necessarily trust the people they trust, or the people they trust.

6) Casual players - Yes there are casual players in the game that just want to have a bit of fun, they are willing to take losses and know they arent going to win. However these players already struggle to get to grips with this game as you need a good alliance too much. You poetntially removing their own source of defence and theres only so much bashing which you cant respond to before the game becomes a chore rather than fun.

This is a point. Without an alliance you'd only have 1 tick for def. However, attacking would be easy enough that one could regain lost roids almost trivially. I'd argue that this allows the casual player to play more, but admittedly, it would detract from some sides of the game as we currently know it.

Theres more things swirling around my head but tbh its such a short sighted, self indulgiant idea that only considers the top players that its not worth wasting any more time than neccesary on justfiying why its bad

Self-indulgant?! **** off. Your line of reasoning is "I'm a newbie and I don't like it. You're not a newbie, and you like it. So it's bad".

I do not claim that the proposed solution to the problem is a silver bullet, but I do think that for the majority of paying players, galaxies as they stand today detract from the game.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Kal

i'm very tempted to remove exile and force people to work together

Would you be removing self-exile options as well? And how do you handle people who are spying on your gal, feeding galstatuses to attackers?

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Banned

Would you be removing self-exile options as well? And how do you handle people who are spying on your gal, feeding galstatuses to attackers?

yes to remove-self exile

to the other things maybe a new more advanced gal status system controlled by the GC+ministers

[Seth Mace]

What makes you so sure Alliances wont continue to promote fake nicking just because galaxies have gone and its more benificial to create cluster-defence ties?

Unless im missing something, fake nicking will continue and infact will be even more promoted because the cluster channels contain more players, hence a bigger chance you will get more enemies or people likely to abuse your openess?

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

What makes you so sure Alliances wont continue to promote fake nicking just because galaxies have gone and its more benificial to create cluster-defence ties?

Unless im missing something, fake nicking will continue and infact will be even more promoted because the cluster channels contain more players, hence a bigger chance you will get more enemies or people likely to abuse your openess?

Basically the fact that you don't really need the cluster. Plus, since they can't see your galstatus, it's not as important.

In addition, being in a channel that tells what cluster you're in doesn't immediately mean anyone knows what your coords are. You don't actually need to defend or get defense from anyone to be there and talk to people.

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Kal

i'm very tempted to remove exile and force people to work together

please dont.

We give everyone a chance before we kick them but if there going to sit there with 10 roids for the rest of the round then no thank you i dont want it.

And the 1 time exile is a 1 time exhile least let us keep that.

[furball]

Originally Posted by Kal

i'm very tempted to remove exile and force people to work together

Originally Posted by noah02

please dont.

We give everyone a chance before we kick them but if there going to sit there with 10 roids for the rest of the round then no thank you i dont want it.

And the 1 time exile is a 1 time exhile least let us keep that.

Agreed. Exile was introduced for a reason, taking it away will just bring back the same old problems - inactives, abusive galmates, spies. You can't just force people to work together. Honestly Kal, I think you need to play PA seriously again just to remind yourself of what it's like from a player's point of view.

[Kal]

I never needed to self exile myself, and my favourite galaxy of all time was from a random round, however I concede I could have been lucky.

What I don;t like is people deciding their galaxy is useless by this stage in the game, so perhaps a system whereby exiling can only happen after say the first 200 ticks

[furball]

Originally Posted by Kal

I never needed to self exile myself, and my favourite galaxy of all time was from a random round, however I concede I could have been lucky.

What I don;t like is people deciding their galaxy is useless by this stage in the game, so perhaps a system whereby exiling can only happen after say the first 200 ticks

Yes, I'd say you're lucky. An ally mate of mine self-exiled 4-5 times last round (i think) before finding a competent galaxy.

As for deciding how good a galaxy is, I can do that very easily at this stage in the game. The evening, such as this, is prime-time for activity. Most players should be online if they're any good.

Looking at my galaxy screen, only myself and the two other members of my buddy pack are online. Most of the galaxy is from the UK, so timezone is not really an excuse. An awful lot of planning went into that buddy pack in order to get a mix of alliances and online times. It's been wasted by merging into a galaxy with a buddy pack of casual players, and the double whammy of inactive randoms.

I don't blame the other players, thats how they want to play PA. It's the fault of the buddy pack system imo.

[Seth Mace]

Originally Posted by Banned

Basically the fact that you don't really need the cluster. Plus, since they can't see your galstatus, it's not as important.

I thought you get quicker eta ingame if you are in cluster? Akin to ingalaxy defence? If this is as i thought you meant, it will just simulate a massive galaxy.

The problem with this idea i think, is that it relys on no pre-round hostilities where you have alliances getting ready to hunt down other allies who they feel will be their main competition.

Aslong as you have this, there will be a need for fake alias & fake def bots ect, to protect your identity from the enemy or any possible future ones. You will need some kind of cluster status screen, otherwise the game will rely on activity and this ofc is something PA team dont want.

So whatever system is brought in, you will need to tell your cluster a place to report your hostiles and this, will inturn lead to the leaking of your coords & alliance (if they dont already know it from your real nick).

[furball]

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

I thought you get quicker eta ingame if you are in cluster? Akin to ingalaxy defence? If this is as i thought you meant, it will just simulate a massive galaxy.

The problem with this idea i think, is that it relys on no pre-round hostilities where you have alliances getting ready to hunt down other allies who they feel will be their main competition.

Aslong as you have this, there will be a need for fake alias & fake def bots ect, to protect your identity from the enemy or any possible future ones. You will need some kind of cluster status screen, otherwise the game will rely on activity and this ofc is something PA team dont want.

So whatever system is brought in, you will need to tell your cluster a place to report your hostiles and this, will inturn lead to the leaking of your coords & alliance (if they dont already know it from your real nick).

The way I see this working:
Universe eta: 0
Cluster eta: -1
Alliance eta: -2
Cluster+alliance eta: -3

I'm not so sure it should stack, it all depends on the number of clusters. Too few and big alliances will be able to get -3 eta on a lot of defences. Too many and it'll very rarely stack. Without stacking, at least things would be a little more predictable, I can imagine being in the same cluster getting annoying at times because of mixed ETAs.

Alliances have the option of either not using the Cluster at all, or fake-nicking. Otherwise they'd get identified v. quickly, obviously.

I'm not sure how you'd get the game to display a planet - too many planets per cluster and it'd be insanely confusing (if all planets in a cluster are put together on one screen). Intel would be a totally different ball-game again - no galaxy intel.

I'm still optimistic that this idea does work.

[MAdnRisKy]

there would be no cluster incomming screen as I understood it, rather an alliance one.

which has it's pros and cons.....

[furball]

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

there would be no cluster incomming screen as I understood it, rather an alliance one.

which has it's pros and cons.....

I agree that that's the best way to make it work, if activity is going to remain unimportant

Of course, if actually being GOOD at the game was rewarded, then there wouldn't be any alert at all, but perhaps longer ship ETAs.


I guess we'll stick with an alliance alert for now, although it seems a little too powerful.

[Kal]

this has some merits indeed, but I am somewhat atatched to galaxies, I allways enjoyed making new friends have having to trust people. I feel with galaxies gone and clusters only existing that I would never feel the need to talk to my cluster and hence life would be boring.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Kal

this has some merits indeed, but I am somewhat atatched to galaxies, I allways enjoyed making new friends have having to trust people.

I have to trust my alliance, and that's hard enough as it is.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Jester

I have to trust my alliance, and that's hard enough as it is.

part of what makes pa fun though is meeting new people, and more importantly being forced to meet new people.

from speaking to the alliances none of them have admitting refusing to defend people who reveal themselves to the galaxies (if u know of any please tell me).

Also its worth pointing out that there is no reason why a galaxy cannot function if real nick and alliance are kept secret really.

My main worry about rellying entirly on alliances instead of galaxies is that it would hurt the new players more than the galaxy system does.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Kal

part of what makes pa fun though is meeting new people, and more importantly being forced to meet new people.

Yup.

Also its worth pointing out that there is no reason why a galaxy cannot function if real nick and alliance are kept secret really.

Here's a hint.

My main worry about rellying entirly on alliances instead of galaxies is that it would hurt the new players more than the galaxy system does.

And I argue the opposite. My point isn't that this idea is well thought out, and should be implemented as it's presented. The actual suggestion isn't that important:

20:53:01 <@jesterina> the suggestion isn't important
20:56:16 <@jesterina> it has to be more accessible, yes
20:56:49 <@jesterina> what I propose is a sort of split
20:56:59 <@jesterina> you let the alliance players play the beginning of the round hidden
20:57:07 <@jesterina> while non-alliance players can idle in #cXX
20:57:14 <@jesterina> and talk to eachother, talk on the cluster forum
20:57:29 <@jesterina> any alliance player who *wants* can talk to them too
20:58:01 <@jesterina> but the key is that it doesn't become even remotely as crux as a galaxy
20:59:22 <@jesterina> as it stands, galaxies are incredibly problematic for the top players
20:59:30 <@jesterina> but much too small to be useful for small players
20:59:48 <@jesterina> (because their inactivity means they'll see much less of eachother, therefore you don't get the strong bond of old galaxies ete and so on)
21:00:43 <@jesterina> galaxies mean that smaller alliances can't attack bigger alliance's players with big attack fleets

21:04:21 <@Wakey> I dont see how the solution improves anything for smaller players. They still wont be able to really punch above their weight

I'd like to address this specifically. This whole 'you can't attack upwards' stuff is bullocks. It's just that most alliances are too shit to manage. Over half my roids last round came from top10 or top20 planets. When I started hitting these planets I was top200-300.

a) make the game more accessible for new players. Currently they either have to get on IRC within 24 hours or get exiled into a galaxy too inactive to help.
b) cut down on the early round bullshit. If you've read the social software article I linked on AD a few weeks ago, you'll see that fakenicking (which, in reality, is encouraged by PA) violates two of the guidelines for making good social software
c) prevent powerhouse galaxies from deciding which player wins and loses. A player who goes random in any private/random round (such as this one) is giving up any chance of playing for top10.
d) make attacking easier, without making people in poor galaxies victims. Currently people who fall into common search criteria are guaranteed random incoming 1-3 times a day, while alliances can protect their people in those brackets, unprotected players have to outgrow the bracket on their own and easily fall back in.
e) prevent alliances from blackmailing people into fencesitting. Currently strong alliances implicitely or explicitely blackmail galaxies into following their rules, thereby weakening perceived weaker alliances, furthering the gap and detracting from the game.

[furball]

Originally Posted by Kal

Also its worth pointing out that there is no reason why a galaxy cannot function if real nick and alliance are kept secret really.

Originally Posted by Nonentity

Meanwhile, you can't build up a rapport with your new gal mates because you're constantly hiding from them. This round is the first in which I've fake-nicked, and tbh it's not unlike a chastity belt. You want to be able to talk openly with new people (especially when there's more people that you don't know in the gal than last round), but you're restricted. Annoying as hell.

As a result, it's harder for a galaxy to function when players are doing it. And they are.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Jester

I'd like to address this specifically. This whole 'you can't attack upwards' stuff is bullocks. It's just that most alliances are too shit to manage. Over half my roids last round came from top10 or top20 planets. When I started hitting these planets I was top200-300.

When I said you cant punch above your own weight, I didnt mean you cant pull off an attack on someone bigger than you as obviously this is possible and you can win a battle. The problem is winning the war when you try this, you come away from a successful campaign against your bigger alliance rival only to notice 24 hours later the retal waves heading your way. By the very fact that one alliance is bigger than the other they have an instant advantage as they have more at their disposal and generally more members and more score will come out on top in these situation. Ok yes a better structure and level of members can tip the balance in favour of the small but its often the case, especially later on that the rankings are a fairly good judge of the overall quality of an alliance (after all even with fewer members the quality will still show, and lots of members and low quality is the same)

Theres simply the fear thing of hitting people above you because of this, you have to either be pretty close to the bigger alliace or just be 110% sure your 110% better than them in both an organistaional and member quality sense. Its the exact reason why alliances block up to hit a bigger alliance because it helps balance the field slightly and removes some of the risk as your no longer at a numerical disadvantage and as long as your tactically and organistaionally strong you should come out on the losing end

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Nonentity

As a result, it's harder for a galaxy to function when players are doing it. And they are.

You might not be able to build strong friendships when fake tagging but lets be honest fake tagging is hardly the real issue here. It would be nice if people were honest about who they are but in the end it doesnt matter if you call yourself tom, dick or sid you can still work as a team and you can still help players get better at the game by teaching them. The problem isnt that people are fake tagging BUT the fact they are too wrapped up in their own and their alliances progress to bother about anyone else. I mean ffs your name isnt really Noneentity, jester/banned isnt called jester/banned and i'm not called Wakey. In many case's even our online personas are probally NOTHING like our RL ones. Yet do we see threads talking about how these fake versions of ourselves are damaging the game.? No we dont .

The issue we need to deal with is more about how we can get people to change their take take take attitude and at times give something. To spend 30 mins in bewteen ticks that would otherwise be used posting mindless garbage on GD and make an effort to help the lesser people in their galaxy. Not to exile people because they dont fit some ideal of being active that only those who dont have School/College/Uni/Work/A Life can maintain and instead nerture them and help them become the best asset to the galaxy that they can be.

Removing fake tagging in itself wont change a thing and certainly not if ideas as drastic as those brought up are whats needed to acheive it, all such things would do would be to reduce the need for people to help others outside their select group of their alliance because after all this will be the last and best line of defence for anyone so why even bother going outside of it.. And will newbies end up in 1up, Wolfpack ect ? Very unlikly, atleats not in the kind of numbers that are needed

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Nonentity

As a result, it's harder for a galaxy to function when players are doing it. And they are.

I disagree, you just have to have fun with your fake identity, you can still be yourself

[demiGOD]

Originally Posted by Nonentity

..., you can't build up a rapport with your new gal mates because you're constantly hiding from them...

Rapport can be established somewhat even through a network of fake-nicked players. Mostly, people tend to find out and/or pop out to the open, their gal-mates' and their identities, mostly at tick +500 or so. A planet's activity can also be very demanding without gal-mates, and again, might also introduce another springing of harvesting and such.

Might be a bad idea tbh.

[Orion Treet]

My first and foremost idea is very negative to this sudgestion. I gues partly because gallaxy's are part of what make PA, you meet new people each round, and get to know them all good. If you're stuck in a cluster with say 50-100 people your contact would basicly be largely limmited to your own ally and cluster allies of the block your in that would probebly make their return then.

[Seth Mace]

Originally Posted by Jester

b) cut down on the early round bullshit. If you've read the social software article I linked on AD a few weeks ago, you'll see that fakenicking (which, in reality, is encouraged by PA) violates two of the guidelines for making good social software

I dont think you can fully apply that to PA and fakenicking though. As this community is based around a wargame and the wars are organised on IRC, it means IRC identity is much more integral to the game as say with other online games. Also the process of building up information and trying to figure out somebodies identity (mainly what ally they are with), is apart of the game.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

I dont think you can fully apply that to PA and fakenicking though. As this community is based around a wargame and the wars are organised on IRC, it means IRC identity is much more integral to the game as say with other online games. Also the process of building up information and trying to figure out somebodies identity (mainly what ally they are with), is apart of the game.

I never claimed they fully apply to PA, but they do apply to the social aspect of PA. It's also been claimed time and time again that 'the community' is very important. I think fakenicking harms the community much more than people realize.

[Sun_Tzu]

I stopped reading a third down this thread. Quite simply I hate the original idea because instead of doing something about the problem it gives up and says "oh well, we didn't manage to incorporate the new players in the game so let's screw them and build the game around something else instead".

I still advocate in all games of this sort private galaxies with a forced amount of random players(say 10priv + 5random) with security features and levels to ensure the safety of the private players so that they don't end up chucking every random out of the gal in fear of leaking gal-status or what-not. The nub might not feel included, but by the time he learns the game and gains the trust of the private players he'll have realized what this security feature is for and why it's a good thing. Why it, in the end, helped him.

But let's not to do the reasonable and smart thing ok?

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu

I stopped reading a third down this thread. Quite simply I hate the original idea because instead of doing something about the problem it gives up and says "oh well, we didn't manage to incorporate the new players in the game so let's screw them and build the game around something else instead".

Not quite, and I think you should read the rest of the thread to understand why.

Random galaxies don't incorperate new players into the game. How many top alliances have members who aren't pre-PAX? Even if new players join, there is a divide.

I think this divide is there because of the pressure put on classic players when it comes to their galaxies. They've seen seen people get plastered to the wall every round because they were 'made' early on. It doesn't happen to everyone, but it happens to some.

But let's not to do the reasonable and smart thing ok?

No. If it's so smart, why hasn't it succeeded yet?

[Ginga]

Personally I like having a nice new galaxy each round. Its nice meeting new people and making new friends.

Silly idea.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Ginga

Personally I like having a nice new galaxy each round. Its nice meeting new people and making new friends.

Me too. But I've very rarely met anyone I've kept in touch with through a random galaxy. Almost all the friends I've made were through my alliance, private galaxies or general IRC socializing.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Banned

Me too. But I've very rarely met anyone I've kept in touch with through a random galaxy. Almost all the friends I've made were through my alliance, private galaxies or general IRC socializing.

I've met some of the best pa players I know through random galaxies, but then maybe i'm lucky