Clusters - what happened?

[Zo0f]

I started Planetarion in round 6. Right from the start i was made aware that our cluster had 'enemies' in it, by my galaxy. To reiterate that these 'enemies' were even kind enough to come and visit my planet, several times. From then on a few weeks were spent knocking down these hostile galaxies in a very close cluster war. One of the most enjoyable parts of my early days in Planetarion were the good cluster wars early on.

Now we arrive at the present day, since PaX i have never once even cared what cluster i was in. It really does make no or very little difference what so ever. People still make cluster alliances, but only out of old habbit. Most of the small playerbase are too experienced to defend random people from their cluster, and noobs dont have enough ships to make a difference and arent likely to be online when you need them. This makes cluster alliances utterly pointless.

Am I the only one who horribly misses what cluster i end up in actually mattering? Not only were cluster wars really fun, but it added more tactics to alliance military strategy.

[ils]

mm, in my r8 or something I remember we had a good cluster alliance, but that was only some of the bestalliances:P

[Kileman]

Only prob with clusters (and the time travel advantages etc) is that people abuse the system to make 'strongholds' with their friends and alliances by creating multiple accounts/gals.

The changes also help remove the 'random' aspect of the game, the whole "I ended up in a hard/hostile/crap cluster so I got owned" aspect

But I have to agree with you in the fact that cluster wars were definetly some of the best times - R6 c10 was one of the best 'wars' ive had in my time playing PA.
________
Justin Bieber

[NitinA]

If cluster alliances were hard-coded into the game as regular alliances currently are, it'd be different. I think that was the #1 point which left to the demise of clusters.

-NitinA

[Envious]

Originally Posted by NitinA

If cluster alliances were hard-coded into the game as regular alliances currently are, it'd be different. I think that was the #1 point which left to the demise of clusters.
-NitinA

I don't think so. They already have the main advantage of alliances, the eta bonus. The only thing that would change, you could not attack in cluster anymore, but that wouldn't lead to more in-cluster defence.

[mist]

clusters were fun, but a bad idea in a way. a gal ending up on its own in a hostile cluster was in real trouble - probably killing the player's rounds, and that's not a good thing

-mist

[Neferti]

i miss clusters too. Especially round 7 where i got incs from 7:13 (gal finished 3rd) in cluster at least once (usually more) each day for 4 weeks, and only conceded about 100 roids despite being in a 'crap' alliance though admittedly most rounds were pretty crap for cluster alliances, for me (rounds 3, 5 and 6 being exceptions)

[Zo0f]

Originally Posted by mist

clusters were fun, but a bad idea in a way. a gal ending up on its own in a hostile cluster was in real trouble - probably killing the player's rounds, and that's not a good thing

-mist

Round 7 my round was 'killed' as you put it. It did however take weeks and was one of the most fun times I had in Planetarion. We no longer have the same two sided battles which caused clusters to either make your round or break your round. Therefore I would like to see them again, but I doubt it will ever happen.

[Alki]

yeh i do miss clusters quite alot, it adds a whole new aspect to the game i think, alliances hitting solid clusters, trying to keep there own gals alive by weaking there cluster etc etc. In the other game cluster alliances are vital and brings alot of ppl who may not have played with each other before together. but thats my own opinion

[Zo0f]

That is a side to it I had completely forgotten Alki. Cluster alliances brought people together, allowed people to get to know others they would not otherwise meet and move up/around the world of Planetarion via the contacts they made. I still know and talk to people I met in my first cluster alliance in round 6.

This is another way new players could meet people and create/join friendship groups. Something Planetarion is missing at the moment I think.

[Pinkerton]

I think if clusters were smaller..say 5 galaxies then it would be easier to get to know one another or just easier to manage. It would also likely cut down on inter cluster wars.

[Alki]

depends on what the final gal setups will be i suppose, theywill take cluster sizes into consideration from this i think

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by Pinkerton

I think if clusters were smaller..say 5 galaxies then it would be easier to get to know one another or just easier to manage. It would also likely cut down on inter cluster wars.

That's probably a bit on the small size, if you want clusters to have much effect.

For a universe of 4K planets, with 10-planet galaxies, you're probably looking at a "realistic" cluster size of a least a hundred planets (i.e., 10 galaxies). That gives you a scaling of 1:10:100:4000 (planet:galaxy:cluster:universe).

Giving clusters advantages only for defense (e.g., reduced ETA on defense but regular ETA on attacks) would eliminate The Dark Side™ of clusters.

[Mek]

i too miss cluster alliances i liked the fact that it wud more than likely end up split into 2 groups and lots of figting etc...it added another battlefield you had to keep check of.

round 12 i set up the =18th= for my cluster and it was just a tag we all flew under (except 18:3 cuz they kept getting pwned :P) and all it stood for was no in-cluster attacking so we could remove that danger from our minds (and the fact that TheRat was sat in the galaxy next to mine and i didnt want incluster attacks from 1up :P)

bring back teh wars

[Envious]

well, with no eta bonus on attacks, incluster incoming is just the same as any other incoming, so why bother about it at all?

if you want cluster wars, obviously you will need attack eta bonus, cause else noone will care if a target is in cluster or out of it, they will just choose the better target.

if you want cluster alliances tho, you will need to give them some bonus over normal alliances, because with the current system they have same eta and yet nearly noone is defending in cluster, except friendly alliances and only in rare cases. eta -2 might help here, but then again it has been expressed by many active players that making defense easier is not the thing to do.

[mist]

without a bonus on attack clusters are largely pointless, tbh.

you get the large people who're playing for their alliance so ignore the cluster, and the small people who can't run an alliance and arn't active enough to be in one.

only by making it important to the large players can you make clusters vibrant, and that means you have to give the attack eta bonus

-mist

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by mist

without a bonus on attack clusters are largely pointless, tbh.

But then you get:

Originally Posted by mist

a gal ending up on its own in a hostile cluster was in real trouble

I don't see how you can have it both ways.

you get the large people who're playing for their alliance so ignore the cluster, and the small people who can't run an alliance and arn't active enough to be in one.

A cluster operates like a built-in alliance, of sorts. You're probably correct in that the large players probably don't need it (since they already have an alliance) but it's there for those who want to utilize it. Perhaps some 'cluster tools' (like the alliance tools) to help people manage cluster alliances would make them more viable for the small(er) players who can't rely on a (big) alliance?

only by making it important to the large players can you make clusters vibrant, and that means you have to give the attack eta bonus

Do large players really need more advantages? Making clusters 'vibrant' for the large players means something like ETA 6 incomings, which I think will only help drive more of the non-24/7 players out of the game.

[mist]

i didn't say you could have it both ways. i said why clusters could be a bad thing and why they were interesting. a double edged sword, or whatever the phrase is.

i don't think big players need moe advantages, no, but i played rounds where there was no -1 eta for attack in cluster and found the clusters to be all but irrelevant.

-mist

[noah02]

Clusters are fine the way they are, I just think there should be a cluster alliance thing were they only get the plus eta defence if there actually in the cluster alliance and cant attack in cluster like they can now

[Brimstone]

Nah. Parallel alliances = 1337

*Memories of R4*

Best fun ever, more gals than was humanly possible to manage, Legion+ Fury wars.

long live the days of 25th, p25a and 2e5.

but you try being 225:25:25 ...

and one other thing, is the change in peoples attitude and gameplay. Once upon a time, you got attacked (without being defended) you lost a load, and you rebuilt and hit them back.

You cant do that any more, as it takes half a round to rebuild if you get hit properly. Also, people largely give up if they get smashed.

Brimstone

[jerome]

Originally Posted by Brimstone

Once upon a time, you got attacked (without being defended) you lost a load, and you rebuilt and hit them back.

You cant do that any more, as it takes half a round to rebuild if you get hit properly.

Have you been playing the same game as the rest of us? this is anything BUT true. Heard of 'xp'? etc.

[Zo0f]

Tactitus you may be right that the disadvantages outweight the advantages. I am not sure either way. All I know is that of all the changes since PaX I miss clusters the most. As they are they are completely useless and may aswell have the defence eta removed. They add nothing to the game, but hold the potential to do lots.

In the end I just wanted to know if I was the only one who missed them so much, or if others hand fond memories of them too.

[Brimstone]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

Have you been playing the same game as the rest of us? this is anything BUT true. Heard of 'xp'? etc.

You can hardly roid someone with a few thousand XP, you need ships for that.

The reasons it takes so much longer to rebuild is
a) because of constructions. You loose all your factories and half your amps, its makes things difficult to comeback quickly if you lost fleet along with it.

b) because you used to get more from roids (once upon a time it was 1k per roid i believe? *Forgets*), and you had more roids. Top players by end of round now have 10k roids, whereas pre-PAX 10k roids was a low roidcount.


Brimstone

[MrPubes]

/me misses the old clusters, too.
I played with a rl mate in round 4..or was it 3?
We were in a quite high cluster, and thanks to the several thousands planets we could avoid the big alliances pretty good while doing not too bad on ourselves.
We had a private war with 3 galaxies, one of them was full of japanese people. So we hit them whenever they slept. And we were stupid and young enough to stay up the whole night to defend against them.
Well, they were pretty inactive and small, we could cover one gal fully on our own.
But us two against those 3 gals was one of the most funniest things in whole PA.
Bring back real clusters ffs..

[Orion Treet]

I miss clusters (since ' clusters' have no real advantage anymore and there are hardly cally's its hard to really seperate the rest of uni from clusters), but I think it does make things a bit easier for new players. Since the -1 eta attack bonus has been taken away they are quit pointless now. Had a great time round 7 in cluster 20, even though we got killed, was a lot of fun.