Oi Youse peace campaigner type people

[Vaio]

If the UK and the US do pull their troops out of Iraq as your flag waving buddies want, can you lot take their place ? or at least stfu until you can come up with an alternative to foreign troops being there that doesnt include group hugs and bric-a-brac sales.

Twats

Vaio

[wu_trax]

if someone would have followed the advice of the peace campaign people, there wouldnt be any foreign troops in iraq, there wouldnt be terrorism and chaos and there wouldnt be a civil war once the american and british troops retreat.

[Leshy]

Right now, pulling troops out of Iraq is not an option, until national order has been restored and safety for the citizens is not an issue anymore. The US went in for a penny, so now they're in for a pound.

That does not mean I agree with the US going in in the first place, but since that happened, hindsight is no longer an option and what happens now is what matters.

[Scoot951]

Originally posted by Vaio
or at least stfu until you can come up with an alternative to foreign troops being there that doesnt include group hugs and bric-a-brac sales.

Are you trying to say that's a bad plan?

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by wu_trax
if someone would have followed the advice of the peace campaign people, there wouldnt be any foreign troops in iraq, there wouldnt be terrorism and chaos and there wouldnt be a civil war once the american and british troops retreat.

thered be foreign troops in kuwait though am i rite

[wu_trax]

Originally posted by Nodrog
thered be foreign troops in kuwait though am i rite

what are you trying to say?

Originally posted by wu_trax
what are you trying to say?

Nodrog writes his own political satire column in the Guardian every week.

[G_frog]

Originally posted by Nodrog
thered be foreign troops in kuwait though am i rite

there's a phrase for this sort of thing, perhaps you're familiar with it.

[W]

What's wrong with civil war?

Originally posted by W
What's wrong with civil war?

It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.

[lokken]

oh and have a wash

lolz

[W]

Originally posted by Pavil
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.

That's what I was saying. If all the poor people are buried, everybody is rich!

Originally posted by W
That's what I was saying. If all the poor people are buried, everybody is rich!

your power hungry sellin' soldiers in a human grocery store,
ain't that fresh?

[Snurx]

As somebody said, if people had listened to us in the first place there would not be this many dead civillians. There would not be so many dead Iraqis, and not so much more hate against the western world.
Sadly, those people did not listen to us, but instead, went into Iraq to serve their own interests.

Of course, it's easy to sit on morality's high horse and say that we were wrong, look at how it's now. The fact is, it would not be like this if not some neo-nazi sympathisers decided that all towel head countries are to be attacked, beacause they might just not follow our way of life, that's best, since we say so. And we have the might to back it up, too.

(Oh well, back to my "life whitout internett". As you can see, it's not going very well )


EDIT: and i bloody well wash when i want to, i do not wash beacause some rich people thinks it's appropriate to do so. I do it beacause i think it's nice to be clean, not beacause your norms say i should.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Vaio
If the UK and the US do pull their troops out of Iraq as your flag waving buddies want, can you lot take their place ? or at least stfu until you can come up with an alternative to foreign troops being there that doesnt include group hugs and bric-a-brac sales.

Twats

Vaio

I'd support just leaving the iraqis there to sort themselves out but if you want to die for someone you've never met then

[W]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I'd support just leaving the iraqis there to sort themselves out but if you want to die for someone you've never met then

Yeah right.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by W
Yeah right.

That's not exactly a coherent reply y'know.




PS My line is so obviously sarcastic heh.

I really like the way that you people all pretend to give a **** either way when you are the type of people who would walk past a woman being raped in the street.

You are all hypocrits like these environmentalists who claim to despise big corporations yet use the internet, mobile phones, etc which are all mainly is provided by huge corporations.

The kind of people who complain about human rights when you wear clothes that you KNOW comes from sweat shops in the East.

And lastly the kind of people who complain about the Government yet do nothing about anything about it except putting a cross on a piece of paper for the "other guy" every couple of years.

Simple examples, yes but you will know what I mean.

In short you are all talk for the sake of talking, to look like you are somehow better than the "rest".

Woof woof.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Pavil

Except for me because I admitted I didn't care. Ownage lol etc

[Snurx]

Pavil, saying that makes you a slimeball.

How can you judge people when you don't know nothing about them? How can you know what i do, or others, against the system, or other things we might despise?

Besides, saying that were hypocrites for using the net is also stupid, since it's a great way to organize things. Same whit cell phones.
And have you ever seen what i wear? How can you say i wear thigns from sweatshops, when i might be wearing almost only homemade stuff?

All this is just hypotetical of course. But stuff like the things you post make me angry, as you judge ME, whitout knowing anything about ME. Is this some kind of biterness or some lack of love?

Wanna see some magic? I got some magic for you! Shazam!

Originally posted by Snurx
Pavil, saying that makes you a slimeball.

So you dismiss me as being a "slimeball" for purely giving an opinion? Well I think you need to go back to reading "Liberalism for Dummies" a couple more times because I don't think you quite get it yet.

How can you judge people when you don't know nothing about them? How can you know what i do, or others, against the system, or other things we might despise?

I do know you Snurx. Would you like to hear what I know and think of you? Good, because as always I feel like typing. You are almost definitely a student or you have at least been enrolled in a University at some point. However based on some things you write I may be enclined to think that you are a whiny teenager but student will do for now. You are probably doing something like English Lit. or something Technical which has no impact at all in the field that you claim to be passionate about, which is the love, peace and caring of all humans and animals living on this oh so beautiful planet. You're passion comes from reading Michael Moore and reading Radiohead interviews and that is also where it ends. You fail to see that the course you are studying and the path you are taking lies in the fact that you want the bigger wage, you want the comfortable life and the successes that are attributed to it. However maybe a hidden guilt, a need to fit in with the other students caught up in this "I want to make a difference!" bull****, a yearning not to look as stupid as you feel or a lack of understanding in how insignificant you are causes you to open your mouth and let other peoples words fall out. You shoot down people's oh so barbaric words about war and terrorism from behind the safety of your screen yet you have little to no understanding from that persons position/situation or even the situations of those you seek to defend because you suck in the writings of Michael Moore and the newspapers that youre oh so learned and equally blind friends tell you to read. To disprove all of the above if you are a student or have been, list off every single thing you did to make your difference while you had your free time as a student. All of the times you worked in an environment which gave rewards to others without giving reward to yourself instead of going to the pub or getting stoned. Should be a good read.

Besides, saying that were hypocrites for using the net is also stupid, since it's a great way to organize things. Same whit cell phones.

Selective reasoning, I like it. Tell me this, how many anti-smoking campaigners do you know that smoke? I don't know any because giving money to the companies they seek to eradicate would be silly. Hitler didnt have the internet or mobile phones yet look what he accomplished (chortle)

And have you ever seen what i wear? How can you say i wear thigns from sweatshops, when i might be wearing almost only homemade stuff?

I also don't know many people who own a pc yet choose to wear potato sacks and your answer here reeks of so much guilt that it's scary. Go look through your wardrobe again. Look at all the little labels you wear when you leave the house and rethink the message you look to cram down peoples throats. If all you anti war campaigners really gave a **** you would all organise yourselves to not buy fuel for your cars for a set period of time, stage a massive strike against the oil companies etc but you have all these other comforts in your life so why give up on one to help others? And as for the whole "oh these people in other countries are so worse off than me, its my job to make a stand and help them" attitude, who exactly gave you the ****ing right to decide what is best for these people you have never met etc etc.

All this is just hypotetical of course. But stuff like the things you post make me angry, as you judge ME, whitout knowing anything about ME. Is this some kind of biterness or some lack of love?

hypotetical? Did you mispell hypocritical? Dude, you are a carbon copy of every other non placard waving silent demonstartor out there. You only pipe up and have an opinion when it is asked of you in situations like this and the rest of the time you are oblivious to anything other than the little bubble that mummy spent years building around you. You have been moulded and shaped by a system that has been around from long before you were born and that will continue to exist long after you are dead. You are not unique, so dont give me all this **** about judging you. I am merely highlighting the tell tale signs of what mould you fell into. You are a lost cause.

Shazam!

[W]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood

That's not exactly a coherent reply y'know.

I was all over the idea of someone like Vaio making a difference like that.

Originally posted by Pavil
I really like the way that you people all pretend to give a **** either way when you are the type of people who would walk past a woman being raped in the street.

You are all hypocrits like these environmentalists who claim to despise big corporations yet use the internet, mobile phones, etc which are all mainly is provided by huge corporations.

The kind of people who complain about human rights when you wear clothes that you KNOW comes from sweat shops in the East.

And lastly the kind of people who complain about the Government yet do nothing about anything about it except putting a cross on a piece of paper for the "other guy" every couple of years.

Simple examples, yes but you will know what I mean.

In short you are all talk for the sake of talking, to look like you are somehow better than the "rest".

Woof woof.

OMG bitterness and fake disillusionment!

Perhaps most people do realize that not using the internet won't kill off telecommunications companies, or that not buing "made in taiwan" won't really make a dent in child labour?

And hell yeah, most people are ****ing pricks about making a difference when it matters, but there are a few, a minority, of people who really care, who really wait for the opportunity when action WILL make a difference. Those people who would NOT walk away from a woman being raped. Perhaps you wanted to be one of those, and failed. You realized that you didn't have what it takes. And now you flop about in the mudhole of denial thinking NOONE has what it takes, that there aren't anyone who's really better than you.

There are. You lose.

[Snurx]

I would not walk away from a woman being raped, just so that's said.

Im not, nor have i ever, been enrolled in a uni. Maybe i will, maybe not. Im also not doing something special at school, im just doing the regular classes atm.
Oh, and yes, im a whiny teenager.
I don't like Michael Moore, because he's a ranter. He's on the same side as me, in a way, and the things he does for the american people is cool, since they need ranters. I don't.
Im not a pasifist, nor a hippie. I fight for me and mine, and for my beliefs/principles. I answer violence whit violence. Satisfied?

Oh, and stuff i've done for others, eh?

-I've collected money for everything from beggars to Palestine's oppressed people.
-I've cooked/helped give away so much food to beggars i've lost count of how many time's i've done it.
-I've had people at my home, in the dead cold of winter, that had no place to go and would have ended up in a pretty bad condition (at least i think so) if they had not had a place to live.
-I've stood up to my principles, even thought it has cost me good grades, cost me trips to places i really wanted to go to, it has cost me parties/friends i've wanted, things i've wanted to do, or get, or even the chance of having a top-notch job. I've not stood down when the teachers, police or nazi's have terrorized the people around me, but fought back whit everything i've got.
-I've become friends whit the people nobody in my area wanted to be friends whit. Not beacause i felt any pity for them, just beacause i see past things like sexuality or color of skin when im choosing my friends.

I could rant for hours on the good deeds of myself, but i think i'l stop now. There's no point in bragging, i just feel that the little list there shows that im not a silent michael moore protester, like Pavil wants me to be.

Yes, i own clothes that has been made in sweathshops, or at least, probably been made in sweatshops. Have the companies gotten any money for these clothes? No. Or at least, all that i've aquired have been so in other ways. Of course, i probably have stuff from when i was a kid, or stuff that other's have gotten me, that evil companies have gotten money from. But, i've never (or at least not since i became old enough to know things) bought things from companies that i know use sweatshops, or other things i disagree whit. You wont see me drinking coke nor going to macdonalds.

I did not choose to be born in norway, in a decently rich (or at least, not poor) family. I'm glad i did. I've not lived a uncomfortabale life. Shall i feel sorry for myself, and start to hate things around me, beacause of that? I feel no shame for my parents, they have taught me much of the values i hold dear. (Like anti-racism, anti-facism, stand up for my rights and so on) Nor do i feel any shame for what i stand for, and i won't give my principles away. If you think i do, and all i care about is screaming at you beacause you assault me, youre wrong.
Oh well, im going to bed. I probably wont be here tomorrow, have fun destroying my post Pavil.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Pavil
The kind of people who complain about human rights when you wear clothes that you KNOW comes from sweat shops in the East.

What does that have anything to do with anything? Have you spoken with any of the campaigners against sweat shop labour?

I attended a talk regarding the Indonesian sweat-shops who make Nike trainers. One of the representatives of the workers practically begged people not to boycott. Mindlessly avoiding the produce of capitalism would be idiocy.

[Elfhelm]

Why did he beg them not to boycott it? It surely it doesn't matter if they avoid the products of capitalism or not?

[meaple]

Originally posted by Snurx
I would not walk away from a woman being raped, just so that's said.

Im not, nor have i ever, been enrolled in a uni. Maybe i will, maybe not. Im also not doing something special at school, im just doing the regular classes atm.
Oh, and yes, im a whiny teenager.
I don't like Michael Moore, because he's a ranter. He's on the same side as me, in a way, and the things he does for the american people is cool, since they need ranters. I don't.
Im not a pasifist, nor a hippie. I fight for me and mine, and for my beliefs/principles. I answer violence whit violence. Satisfied?

Oh, and stuff i've done for others, eh?

-I've collected money for everything from beggars to Palestine's oppressed people.
-I've cooked/helped give away so much food to beggars i've lost count of how many time's i've done it.
-I've had people at my home, in the dead cold of winter, that had no place to go and would have ended up in a pretty bad condition (at least i think so) if they had not had a place to live.
-I've stood up to my principles, even thought it has cost me good grades, cost me trips to places i really wanted to go to, it has cost me parties/friends i've wanted, things i've wanted to do, or get, or even the chance of having a top-notch job. I've not stood down when the teachers, police or nazi's have terrorized the people around me, but fought back whit everything i've got.
-I've become friends whit the people nobody in my area wanted to be friends whit. Not beacause i felt any pity for them, just beacause i see past things like sexuality or color of skin when im choosing my friends.

I could rant for hours on the good deeds of myself, but i think i'l stop now. There's no point in bragging, i just feel that the little list there shows that im not a silent michael moore protester, like Pavil wants me to be.

Yes, i own clothes that has been made in sweathshops, or at least, probably been made in sweatshops. Have the companies gotten any money for these clothes? No. Or at least, all that i've aquired have been so in other ways. Of course, i probably have stuff from when i was a kid, or stuff that other's have gotten me, that evil companies have gotten money from. But, i've never (or at least not since i became old enough to know things) bought things from companies that i know use sweatshops, or other things i disagree whit. You wont see me drinking coke nor going to macdonalds.

I did not choose to be born in norway, in a decently rich (or at least, not poor) family. I'm glad i did. I've not lived a uncomfortabale life. Shall i feel sorry for myself, and start to hate things around me, beacause of that? I feel no shame for my parents, they have taught me much of the values i hold dear. (Like anti-racism, anti-facism, stand up for my rights and so on) Nor do i feel any shame for what i stand for, and i won't give my principles away. If you think i do, and all i care about is screaming at you beacause you assault me, youre wrong.
Oh well, im going to bed. I probably wont be here tomorrow, have fun destroying my post Pavil.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[ParraCida]

Originally posted by Vaio
If the UK and the US do pull their troops out of Iraq as your flag waving buddies want, can you lot take their place ? or at least stfu until you can come up with an alternative to foreign troops being there that doesnt include group hugs and bric-a-brac sales.

Twats

Vaio

The idea was that you don't ****ing go there in the first place.

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Pavil
I really like the way that you people all pretend to give a **** either way when you are the type of people who would walk past a woman being raped in the street.

You are all hypocrits like these environmentalists who claim to despise big corporations yet use the internet, mobile phones, etc which are all mainly is provided by huge corporations.

The kind of people who complain about human rights when you wear clothes that you KNOW comes from sweat shops in the East.

And lastly the kind of people who complain about the Government yet do nothing about anything about it except putting a cross on a piece of paper for the "other guy" every couple of years.

Simple examples, yes but you will know what I mean.

In short you are all talk for the sake of talking, to look like you are somehow better than the "rest".

Woof woof.

Please, don't judge us by your standards

Vaio

[Vaio]

Originally posted by ParraCida
The idea was that you don't ****ing go there in the first place.

I know but it's a little late to use that arguement

Vaio

[Som1]

Originally posted by Pavil
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.

you don't need a civil war to feeds the rich and bury the poors

[ChubbyChecker]

Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
The real reason to be against American/British intervention in Iraq was that they were largely to blame for the problems in Iraq and thus it is like sending a rapist to save his victim.

So you're saying that somebody should have gone in but not America because they created the problems in the first place? That it's impossible for a country to decide that it was wrong in one instance and try to atone for it later?

Or perhaps you're saying that nobody should have gone in and your "reason" is just a little jibe at America

[ChubbyChecker]

Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
So you're saying that somebody should have gone in but not America because they created the problems in the first place? That it's impossible for a country to decide that it was wrong in one instance and try to atone for it later?

Or perhaps you're saying that nobody should have gone in and your "reason" is just a little jibe at America

Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
As for people "going in" certainly not, had America not intervened in Iraq at all, Saddam would not have been in power, however there was no need to go in,

Thanks for answering the question

Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
Are you saying that the horribly misguided policies of the past justifies the horribly misguided policies of the present. Perhaps in a murder trial the killer could say that the fact the he murdered children means he should be allowed to go out in to the community to atone for his mistakes?

What pisses me off is when people say things like "Why should America care if Iraq has WMDs, they sold the weapons to them in the first place! *chortle* *chortle*" and "Yeah, it's terrible that Saddam gassed all those Kurds, we stood by and applauded! *snort*"
Just because we helped to create a situation it doesn't mean we should not try and sort it out. If anything we have an obligation to solve a problem that we created.

[wu_trax]

in the last 60 years, whereever the us tryed to solve one of the problems it created in tghe middle east the result was almost always the exact opposite of what they wanted to archive.
thats why a lot of people, including me, think they will just **** it up once again in iraq.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Vaio
If the UK and the US do pull their troops out of Iraq as your flag waving buddies want, can you lot take their place ? or at least stfu until you can come up with an alternative to foreign troops being there that doesnt include group hugs and bric-a-brac sales.

Twats

Vaio

the peaceniks didn't want to send troops there in the first place. your argument is like sticking a barbed arrow in someone who didn't want it sticking into them, and then accusing them of changing their mind when they refuse to yank it back out again.

[wu_trax]

Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
Fair point, although I can't think of any occasion where the US tried to solve problems in the Middle East.

the socialism-problem in iran, the russian-problem in afganistan and the fundamentalism-problem in iran came to my mind.

ofc, you probably dont see them as real problems, but the us-goverments did, and that was the only real problem in the middle east

[ChubbyChecker]

Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
As I said before your argument that the horribly misguided and criminal actions of the past should justify the horrible misguided and criminal actions of the present makes no sense.

I'm not saying that America is doing the right thing now, or did the right thing when it chose to start Gulf War II. I'm just saying that a country should not be stopped from trying to depose a (supposedly) dangerous dictator simply because they put him there in the first place.

[wu_trax]

Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
I'm not saying that America is doing the right thing now, or did the right thing when it chose to start Gulf War II. I'm just saying that a country should not be stopped from trying to depose a (supposedly) dangerous dictator simply because they put him there in the first place.

if they make things worse by trying, then YES they should be stoped.

[ChubbyChecker]

Originally posted by wu_trax
if they make things worse by trying, then YES they should be stoped.

I agree, but that has nothing to do with America's past actions.

[Marilyn Manson]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:


What a dreadful load of nonsense.

[wu_trax]

Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
I agree, but that has nothing to do with America's past actions.

yes, it does, because in the past they used the same values and reasons to justify their actions, but in the end they didnt really give a damn about them.
look for example at afganistan now: the us-goverment said a lot about freedom and democracy and such nice things in the beginning, but what now? nothing. kazai is in kabul and kabul is all nice, but the rest of the country is still in total chaos.

[ChubbyChecker]

Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
Should they be stopped if, the people being dictated to don't like America. Should they be stopped if the majority of world opinion is against the war, should it be stopped if up until a month before the war they were apparently happy to leave Saddam in power as long as he gave up Weapons of Mass Destruction that he didn't even have?

Yes, but none of that has anything to do with the whole "They sold him weapons so they shouldn't be his enemy now, lol!" argument.

[wu_trax]

the un and now the nato improved the situation for the people in kabul though.
they failed to do anything for the people outside kabul. thats why they now start to return to the taliban, who at least gave them security. most people dont give much about freedom and democracy if this means that they get robbed, killed or raped.

[queball]

we didnt start the fire

[G_frog]

Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
Yes, but none of that has anything to do with the whole "They sold him weapons so they shouldn't be his enemy now, lol!" argument.

That's not even a slightly accurate characterisation of the point being made when someone points out that, for example, rummy personally negotiated bioweaponry-related trade deals with hussein.

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
it is clear that Capital has produced many things, however it is clear also that it doesn't work, it has failed to produce a decent standard of living for a large proportion of people in the world

You mean the ones that havent adopted it?

[Cynical Oracle]

Originally posted by Pavil
I really like the way that you people all pretend to give a **** either way when you are the type of people who would walk past a woman being raped in the street.

You are all hypocrits like these environmentalists who claim to despise big corporations yet use the internet, mobile phones, etc which are all mainly is provided by huge corporations.

The kind of people who complain about human rights when you wear clothes that you KNOW comes from sweat shops in the East.

And lastly the kind of people who complain about the Government yet do nothing about anything about it except putting a cross on a piece of paper for the "other guy" every couple of years.

Simple examples, yes but you will know what I mean.

In short you are all talk for the sake of talking, to look like you are somehow better than the "rest".

Woof woof.

Firstly I would like to congratulate you on a decent post.

Secondly, I don't give a **** either way if 10 or 1 million iraqi's die. It won't make a ****ing difference as I'm living in my shelterd community where no such evil things 'happen'.