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Unread 29 Apr 2006, 15:27   #1
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Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

As we know you get 5 xp per tick for defending a planet outside of your galaxy.

Now, if you only have 1 fleet out defending (which is often the case) you can tell when an attacker has recalled because you don't get the 5xp from one tick to the next. No need to be told this by the guy you're defending, no need to do a jumpgate, nothing. You can just recall, safe in the knowledge that your defence is no longer needed.

Thing is, is this a good thing? A bad thing? It makes defending an easier proposition as you don't need to waste time defending a planet that isn't under attack. This is especially true early in the round when jgp scans are a rare commodity.

Should something be done to change this in future rounds? Perhaps by giving xp per tick of defence regardless of whether the guy you're defending has incoming or not. Or by dishing out the earnt xp after your ships have started returning and not every tick.
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Unread 29 Apr 2006, 15:33   #2
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Re: The thing about xp for defence

It would have to be the later option, theres no way you can give XP even if there arent any ships attacking the planet

And I'm moving this thread to Suggestions where it belongs
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Unread 29 Apr 2006, 16:59   #3
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

tbh, I don't see a huge issue with it. It does give an advantage to defenders, but only defenders who are around and checking their XP and working it all out. I don't see this as a bad thing - it just saves the planet bothering a scanner to check or scanning for it themselves, tbh.
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Unread 29 Apr 2006, 17:54   #4
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

I think it is an issue. Knowledge is power, etc.

I'd go for the second option - and grant the XP once the defender's fleet returns to base.
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Unread 29 Apr 2006, 23:48   #5
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I think it is an issue. Knowledge is power, etc.

I'd go for the second option - and grant the XP once the defender's fleet returns to base.
That's a pain to implement. I have to change the current xp for defence line in at least two places AND add a new line to add it when the fleet returns home. I might also have to go as far as changing a table, but I don't think so as I think there's a space there for it already.

As a related point, why not give XP for attack when your fleet returns home as well?
And what about the roids stolen? Why is that all instantaneous?
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 01:03   #6
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

It's generally better for the XP to be given immediately, but if there's potential for exploitation then we should seal that loophole. In my eyes that's the number one priority, as opposed to something as fickle as storyline continuity.
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 01:27   #7
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

I still don't see it's a loophole.
As Kargool said before realising he was agreeing with me and deleted his post, if you're defending an alliance mate you need the jumpgate scan + 1 amp, or to know someone online with the scan and 1 amp in your alliance to get it checked anyway, assuming the person who's planet it is doesn't tell you first. You're going to be around to get the scan or whatever, so it's not a huge advantage. I can't see it saving much time - especially in the top 5 at least. On average, it might save a tick or two assuming you are there and the person who's planet it is isn't and the attacker recalls. I consider that a small bonus for being active....
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 01:56   #8
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Ok then. Not my problem really, since I don't even play the game anymore
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 03:54   #9
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Its the whole argument over whether to promote activity or not, and/or encouraging the use of scanners or not, i reckon.

Ie, if you take the first view (held by appoco) that showing the XP gain on an individual tick basis you:
1) encourage tick-by-tick activity
2) de-emphasise the use of scanners to JGP defence

If you follow the second view (espoused by Furbeh), that bundeling the XP for defence up and then distributing it at the end of the mission (recall/return), you;
1) Place reduced emphasis on activity
2) Reinforce / make more extensive use of scanners.

Personally, i think encouraging tick by tick activity in such a small fashion isnt bad - indeed, it could be healthy for Alliances and their DCs in order to make more fleets available for defence and thus reducing the strong attack orientated focus of PA atm. This could be interpreted as bad, but i'd like to think of it as a slightly more balanced approach.

Secondly, i've never been a massive fan of scan planets (sorry my lovely scanners!! ) insofar as scan planets are very much a "have or have not" type thing - most good alliances (and all top alliances) will almost always have at least one scanner available all the time. Many smaller alliances will have part-time scanners on some of the time. Solo/informal group players dont have access to scanners except if they take the time and effort in developing their own skills at scans themselves. Granted, solo players have less incentive to defend other people, but those smaller players in loose alliances (like Blade of Scythe) are still a very important group of the playing population. If they can be made aware of a pseudo JGP scan to help them, then it could be benificial ot the game on the whole.

Thus, i am finding myself in agreement with appoco (!!!!!!) on this one.
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 11:15   #10
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

on a totally unrelated note, can someone please explain to me why exactly you get xp for attackers landing?

that completely defeats the object of it you morons. and also it allows people keeping 1 ship home as they're roided to get free score for absolutely no reason.

just make it 30 xp per tick for in-gal def fleets & 20 for alliance, 0 for out-gal/alliance and that's fine to be honest.
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 11:55   #11
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

yes, it might have been a bit over the top giving them XP too.
on the other hand, it's compensation for the roids lost (why did you think 1:1 had so much of it).
Also if you didn't give xp for home fleets, you could get someone to send you 1 ship ingal for an incoming and that'd get 100xp.
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 12:33   #12
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
yes, it might have been a bit over the top giving them XP too.
on the other hand, it's compensation for the roids lost (why did you think 1:1 had so much of it).
Also if you didn't give xp for home fleets, you could get someone to send you 1 ship ingal for an incoming and that'd get 100xp.
This is why things like this are a bad idea. Strange little rules just end up being exploited
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 12:39   #13
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Also if you didn't give xp for home fleets, you could get someone to send you 1 ship ingal for an incoming and that'd get 100xp.
Which would be farming...
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 13:09   #14
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
yes, it might have been a bit over the top giving them XP too.
on the other hand, it's compensation for the roids lost (why did you think 1:1 had so much of it).
Also if you didn't give xp for home fleets, you could get someone to send you 1 ship ingal for an incoming and that'd get 100xp.
the compensation is totally meaningless and ludicrous though.

Last edited by jerome; 30 Apr 2006 at 13:17.
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 13:17   #15
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
yes, it might have been a bit over the top giving them XP too.
on the other hand, it's compensation for the roids lost (why did you think 1:1 had so much of it).
Also if you didn't give xp for home fleets, you could get someone to send you 1 ship ingal for an incoming and that'd get 100xp.
Here's a shocking idea. You could count the home fleet for purposes of determining the defender's ratio of the 100 XP, but choose to not reward it.
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 13:36   #16
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

well those 100 xp isnt really much to talk about, later in the round as if someone sends 1 ship for free xp its his choise really as he waste a fleetspot for it that he could use for something better
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 14:05   #17
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Just for the record, most scanners are already overworked.

Any relief on their behalf is an improvement to the game tbh.
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 16:48   #18
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmaticks
Just for the record, most scanners are already overworked.

Any relief on their behalf is an improvement to the game tbh.
I was wondering if some basic searchable scan database for alliances would improve the load slightly - i.e. scanners tick a box and alliance HCs / BCs can search through scans in the last 24/48 hours done by scanners. A few top alliances already have this sort of setup, so really it'd only make things easier for smaller alliances with less organisation, while at the same time taking some of the heat off scanners.
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 21:21   #19
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
I was wondering if some basic searchable scan database for alliances would improve the load slightly - i.e. scanners tick a box and alliance HCs / BCs can search through scans in the last 24/48 hours done by scanners. A few top alliances already have this sort of setup, so really it'd only make things easier for smaller alliances with less organisation, while at the same time taking some of the heat off scanners.
It shouldn't be limited to 'scanners' or necessarily to HC/BC.
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Unread 30 Apr 2006, 21:33   #20
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

yes, i did think of a tick box in preferences for *anyone* so that their current alliance can search through their scans.
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Unread 1 May 2006, 01:16   #21
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Instead, make the alliance be able to set who can view scans, much like it can choose who can view the arbiter. That would be the best thing for alliances anyway.
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Unread 1 May 2006, 01:27   #22
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Well, i can see how MO and DCs would like to be able to see those scans, i do think however the lemming members, recruits et al shouldnt be able to see it - because otherwise you arent encouraging the activity of HCs and Officers in the alliance though they should be the most active (and someone on at all times) anyway...
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Unread 1 May 2006, 01:30   #23
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster
As a related point, why not give XP for attack when your fleet returns home as well?
And what about the roids stolen? Why is that all instantaneous?
Probably because it is a pain to implement

That said, its fairly simple - but only a real issue now that defenders can see if incs have pulled.
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Unread 1 May 2006, 01:32   #24
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Well, i can see how MO and DCs would like to be able to see those scans, i do think however the lemming members, recruits et al shouldnt be able to see it - because otherwise you arent encouraging the activity of HCs and Officers in the alliance though they should be the most active (and someone on at all times) anyway...
I don't want to have to deal with every scan request every member has.
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Unread 1 May 2006, 01:35   #25
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

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Originally Posted by Banned
I don't want to have to deal with every scan request every member has.
Fine. But it should be up to each alliance to choose, shouldn't it?
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Unread 1 May 2006, 11:40   #26
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Fine. But it should be up to each alliance to choose, shouldn't it?
I did say not necessarily limited to HC/BC. I thought it was a pretty heavy implication that HC should be able to decide. I basically agree with what you said about it being set like the arbiter.
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Unread 1 May 2006, 11:42   #27
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Re: Preventing XP for Defence removing the need for scans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
I did say not necessarily limited to HC/BC. I thought it was a pretty heavy implication that HC should be able to decide. I basically agree with what you said about it being set like the arbiter.
Re-reading, I mis-interpreted your post
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