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Unread 9 Aug 2005, 09:19   #1
ChubbyChecker
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[Discuss] The exile system for Round 15

Kal has started a discussion about the future exile system in this thread . He should really have started a new thread though

I just thought we should have a discussion on how exile / self exile should work next round. I made this post in the thread mentioned above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
Well, rather than distributing people by paid planets / free planets I would suggest making it impossible for big planets to exile into top galaxies.

So for example the top 10% of galaxies can only get planets exiling / self exiling into them that are less than 50% of the average Universe planet score. Also keep it as it is this round where you can't exile planets if the number of planets in your galaxy is too small. This way the top galaxies won't get big planets exiling into them and there will be a more even distribution of large planets across the Universe.

Obviously the percentages can be played with to get the desired effect.
I think that the self exile system is better this round than last round but it could still do with some work.

And to expand on my point above there could be a sliding scale. eg if you are in the top 10% for score then you can only land in the bottom 40% of galaxies. If your score is in the top 11-25% you can only land in the bottom 60%, and so on.
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Unread 9 Aug 2005, 10:57   #2
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Re: The exile system for Round 15

that could make small gals stronger as the big planets would hav eto support them because they wouldnt want to leave, it would also protect the small ppl in big gals as even if they were exiled, theyd be fine

im sure theres a lot of people who think theyd be strong and dont wanna be in this situation though, but in the interest of fairness and making this game more fun for new guys, im gonna agree there, might need some tweaks, but generally a good idea
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Unread 9 Aug 2005, 11:11   #3
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Re: The exile system for Round 15

To make sure that all galaxies have a chance to get a suitable score before the exilers start flying perhaps exiling / self exiling should be disabled for the first few ticks of the round. At least for the first 72 ticks, maybe even for 150 or 200 ticks. This lets the buddy packers get settled in and gives them time to think hard about whether they really do want to exile. This will make it far more likely that buddy packs will stay together and give the galaxy they're in a good chance to grow.
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Unread 22 Aug 2005, 17:56   #4
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Re: The exile system for Round 15

ok this is what I have currently placed on the todo list for next round coding:

Allow free accounts to be GC/ministers
disable self exile for free accounts
only allow self exile every 72 ticks for paid accounts
change self exile cost formula to (value/10)*((number_of_self_exiles_so_far+1)^2) of each resource
base return from c200, self exile, new signups location based on number of PAID accounts in a galaxy not number of planets - we probably want a new table column for this - this is changes to galaxy_tbl and find_coords function - (send planets to bottom 25% by number of paid planets)
restrict galaxy exiles to once every 72 ticks
remove the system disabling galaxy exile for galaxies that are to small - politics.pl - instead give the galaxy a summary on politcis.pl of their number of paid planets, number of free planets, total number of planets and how theese compare with the universe averages so they can make their own decisions.
Do not allow galaxy exiling on planets that have not been in the galaxy for more than 72 ticks
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Unread 22 Aug 2005, 22:42   #5
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Re: The exile system for Round 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
ok this is what I have currently placed on the todo list for next round coding:

Allow free accounts to be GC/ministers
disable self exile for free accounts
Looks good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
only allow self exile every 72 ticks for paid accounts
I would prefer 48 ticks personally. 48 still gives you a strong incentive not to exile but doesn't punish you too much if you have a good reason to hop about a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
base return from c200, self exile, new signups location based on number of PAID accounts in a galaxy not number of planets - we probably want a new table column for this - this is changes to galaxy_tbl and find_coords function - (send planets to bottom 25% by number of paid planets)
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...&postcount=148

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
restrict galaxy exiles to once every 72 ticks
Seems a little harsh but maybe it's better than every 48 ticks. Borderline case really I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
remove the system disabling galaxy exile for galaxies that are to small - politics.pl - instead give the galaxy a summary on politcis.pl of their number of paid planets, number of free planets, total number of planets and how theese compare with the universe averages so they can make their own decisions.
If your idea about sending all planets to galaxies low on paid planets is implemented then this should definitely be done. I still don't like the original idea though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Do not allow galaxy exiling on planets that have not been in the galaxy for more than 72 ticks
In that case add this and allow exiling to occur once every 48 ticks I think. The main problem we have with exiling is that galaxies throw out newly created planets straight away. This way you pretty much eliminate that problem anyway.
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Unread 22 Aug 2005, 23:32   #6
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Re: [Discuss] The exile system for Round 15

Change all the times to 48 ticks and I'll have to delete all my angry posts, Kal
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Unread 22 Aug 2005, 23:59   #7
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Re: [Discuss] The exile system for Round 15

Actually, wait a minute, didn't realise what I was saying earlier. If you make it so that free planets are unable to self exile won't this just make the problem of the galaxies low on paid planets sucking up all the free planets even worse?
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Unread 23 Aug 2005, 08:22   #8
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Re: [Discuss] The exile system for Round 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
Actually, wait a minute, didn't realise what I was saying earlier. If you make it so that free planets are unable to self exile won't this just make the problem of the galaxies low on paid planets sucking up all the free planets even worse?
the point is the changes are meant to remove thoose galaxies.

Its quite possible we need to move to a single pack of 4 people in a galaxy for that to work though
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Unread 23 Aug 2005, 09:52   #9
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Re: [Discuss] The exile system for Round 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
the point is the changes are meant to remove thoose galaxies.

Its quite possible we need to move to a single pack of 4 people in a galaxy for that to work though
Oh, I get it. Not let all the free planets flock together.

Seeing as there's no point in exiling a free planet you'd hope that the galaxies heavy on paid planets won't throw out all the free planets. This is only a hope though, if they do it then we're screwed.
And if new planets all appear in the galaxies with few paid planets then we're pretty much screwed there too since a fair few planets sign up after the shuffle.
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Unread 23 Aug 2005, 10:38   #10
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Re: [Discuss] The exile system for Round 15

If we have a slightly higher base of "private" players in a buddy pack (say a buddy pack of up to 6) why not just severely reduce self / galaxy exile? It'd force people to cope with what they have more. If galaxy exile gets 10x as expensive, inactive free accounts are moved to c200 after 3 days of not logging in (unless in vacation mode) to keep them out of the way, and say you can't self exile while in protection, and a higher cost / once every 48 tick limit, as has already been suggested*.

Increasing the buddypack size keeps quite a few people happy, and while it leads to some blocks it stops galaxies fence sitting so much (no one alliance is going to have 6 members in a galaxy, but 2-3 will get alliances together no doubt, and there's always some neutral "fillers"). With such a big pack, chances are it's more likely not to split up long term**, and will properly form the base of a galaxy, instead of the 2x3 or 3x2 packs where they are more likely to fall out and (self) exile away.
If the galaxies are formed based on activity and score to make them all roughly "equal" (within 1 mil of each other or so) then although some people will abuse this by playing badly until after the shuffle, all galaxies will start approximately equal and again be less likely to break up.

Limiting self / galaxy exile in general is probably a good idea.
Currently, galaxy exile seems to be used to exile "inactives" (those that aren't playing properly, can't / won't go on IRC, or are new planets that don't respond quick enough to PA mail), and self exile is used when your galaxy seems not to be working and people give up and start self exiling to try and get into a more active / higher scoring galaxy. I think self exile should be changed like so:
It starts off the same (enter your passwords, 100% sure, etc), but takes you to a second "confirmation" page, saying "you could land in <x> galaxies higher than your own, or <y> lower than your own. Are you sure you want to exile? Yes/No"


I agree ministers should be able to be free accounts, and disabling self exile for free accounts (although not being able to self exile in protection does limit to some extent signing up and using the fact that the account has 0 value to get free exiles everywhere and spy).
Changing the self exile cost to ^2 means it gets pretty expensive very quickly. I'd prefer ^1.5 or so - still more expensive, but not quite so much

# ^1.5 ^2
1 1 1
2 2.83 4
3 5.2 9
4 8 16
5 11.2 25
6 14.7 36
etc

Galaxy exile wise, not being able to exile anyone until they've been in the galaxy for a day or two is a fair idea, but I think it should be changed so that at least it is not possible to exile anyone in protection. Also, to stop people kicking free accounts out, perhaps instead of the "you can't exile planets when you're in the bottom 15% of galaxies by planet number" limit (which Kal mentioned will be removed) we could have a "the galaxy has to have at least x% of it's planets as free planets". This would mean galaxies wouldn't keep exiling free planets in the hope of getting big paid planets. Say 20-25% as a minimum of free planets.

*I think limiting to once every 48/72 ticks is probably a bad thing. If people land in a really bad galaxy, and have the resources, and can't get out for 2-3 days, they'll have their planet crushed, and may well give up. Just making it more expensive is probably better.

**If nothing else, after a while some trust forms and people know contact information, alliances and so on. Unless we also implement the thing where everyone has their alliance visable.
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Last edited by Appocomaster; 23 Aug 2005 at 10:48.
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Unread 23 Aug 2005, 11:39   #11
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Re: [Discuss] The exile system for Round 15

A lot of that makes sense, but I think a single pack of 6 is probably a mistake - I think in order to reduce the size of galaxies we need to reduce the size of the private/buddy part of the galaxy - so either have a system with 1 pack of 4 as suggested in here - http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=187007 OR have 2 packs of 2.

i think the 1 pack of 4 option makes most sense myself

The current todo list item is:

Allow free accounts to be GC/ministers
disable self exile for free accounts
disable self exile for paid accounts while in protection
change self exile cost formula to (value/10)*((number_of_self_exiles_so_far+2)^1.5)
change to self exile text:
It starts off the same (enter your passwords, 100% sure, etc), but takes you to a second "confirmation" page, saying "you could land in <x> galaxies higher than your own, or <y> lower than your own. Are you sure you want to exile? Yes/No"

base return from c200, self exile, new signups location base don number of PAID accounts in a galaxy not number of planets

disable galaxy exile of planets in protection
Do not allow galaxy exiling on planets that have not been in the galaxy for more than 48 ticks
only allow galaxy exiles once every 48 ticks
remove the system disabling galaxy exile for galaxies that are to small - politics.pl - instead give the galaxy a summary on politics.pl of their number of paid planets, number of free planets, total number of planets and how theese compare with the universe averages so they can make their own decisions
change deletion of free accounts timer to 10 days (this is a db setting)

auto exile inacitve free accounts to c200 - exile if no logins every (72 + (number of times previously autoexiled * 24)) ticks (this would be a ticker function) - ticker would ignore planets in vacation mode - we also need a way to allow auto exiled galaxies to return
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