Complete Overhaul of Pa
Ok this is my 1st post on the forum, and I bet it gets shot down by everyone here. But in my mind it would be a good way forward. Its simple really. For what 7 or 8 rounds this game has been alliance based. The same old people up the top, the same old people trying to get up there. But does it change? No
We get new players in (sometimes) and what happens to them? If they are good, they get picked up by the top 5 alliances and they stay strong. If they are bad, then they get bashed and they leave. Whats the main problem with Pa at the moment? People leaving, everyone says we want more players, we want more targets, we want more roids before it stagnates. Ok my idea is very simple, get rid of alliances. Yup i am a HC of one, yeah its good fun to organise attacks/defence etc but this can be done at a galaxy level. My suggestion is this, remove alliances from the game, completely full stop, they do no exist anymore. No alliance def bonus, no ally fund, no HC, no BC, no DC. no alliances. I hear you saying but but but the alliances are the heart and soul of the game, yes they WERE, look at the diminishing player base, ask yourself why that is, its because new people cannot get involved. You saying but the biggest gals will just become strongholds, and they will run away with it. Fine, put restrictions on how many players they can have, Everyone started with 10 planets (I think) in each galaxy. Lets work with that, lets say the top 25 planets cannot get any bigger than that, if you drop out of the top 25 then an exiler "might" be able to land in the top galaxy. So let everyone have their private galaxies, 10 men/women to it. People will say but 1up/Insomnia/Angels will still have the biggest galaxies. Urgh see my point above, Alliances don't exist. that doesnt matter, its all about the galaxy. If you were in the #2 Galaxy and 10 of your old "Alliance" mates were in #1 would you say nah we will leave them alone. would you b*llocks, you would be saying lets hit them and get to the top. Instead of playing with your friends, you would be playing against them as well. Look at football on the schoolfields, which is more enjoyable, nutmegging someone you dont know, or your mate who you can take the mickey out of for the rest of the week. Any argument you can come up with, just remember, there is no Alliance, and see how much more fun this game could be |
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wont work as alliances existed before they were coded into the game , remove the ingame feature and alliances go back to existing outside the game as before
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what purpose would they have though?
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if you want to remove alliances then also remove attacking and defending and re-name the game tiddlywinks |
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From joke to...err.. Like gzambo said it won't work. |
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I disagree gzambo, I happen to think their purpose would change and they'd become a damn sight more interesting for all involved.
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Why Nadar? Explain
Edit: I'm not saying the galaxy concept doesn't need extra thought :o |
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Removing allianes and everyone playing individually would be fun indeed, but it'd be impossible to stop alliances forming outside the game to defend eachother unless you completely remove defense (which could be fun to try for a round to see how it goes). |
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Do you not think the character and behaviour of alliances would then change?
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Alliances would still exist out of the game to ensure their galaxies remain in the top 10. They'd consider it a victory that their alliance managed to get the most high scoring galaxies. All they'd do is tag their galaxies at the end of the game to show this.
I'd like to see ideas to bring back the galaxy a bit more, but getting rid of alliances just won't work or won't even help it. |
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why would you send defence? you are in the #2 galaxy and want to get to #1, why would you send defence to #1 galaxy? to help them? i think not
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The whole point is that alliances currently care about nothing but the score race. This is less interesting than it has to be, even for the 'winners.' The cluster (not galaxy) thread has the same fundamentals behind it
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Besides, what alliances (especially the old ones) would want to give up on their community, the community they created around a game they play together? |
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and the community alliances created is one that is dwindling |
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Did you play the first few rounds of Planetarion? Alliances existed back then, even though all the prizes were given to planets/galaxies. |
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It'd strengthen the communities not weaken them. |
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yup i did, then left while alliances were brought to the fore, again why would you want to help someone in a galaxy bigger than you when you can land on them?
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What about the politics then? That's one factor which made the game so fun. It's not that your idea is very bad or anything. I'd love to try it out like that for one round, but I severly doubt the rest will think the same. |
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Edit: Made it readable. |
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Politics this round sum up everything that's bad with the current system. I'd expect politics to involve far more players and to concern the wider game, not just the alliance rankings table. And so, more complicated and less easily defined.
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Do you think alliances like LCH disband (pretty much!) because the community's dead or because they don't feel they have the organisation to properly compete in the alliance rankings any more.
I think LCH would still be a great place to be if people weren't worrying about the tags so much. |
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I agree with your points, bwtmc, but I just don't see how you'll get everyone thinking like that. It's hard to change things people are used to in a drastic manner.
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** Apologies if that's not a great representation, I haven't seen the post in a while. |
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Maybe remove out of gal defense.
Then its a private gal war instead, yeah they kinda alliances and gals could nap or hit together. But when you get inc your on your own. |
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See now i'd expect that to make the game less interesting! The game doesn't have to be confined to 'private gal wars.'
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I wouldnt like to say how it would work, thats the great thing about it, its all new possibilities
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I think that alot of players would leave if alliances were removed from the game.
If the game would get more players than they lost I seriously doubt. Alliances have created communities and friends and alot of people enjoy playing together as an alliance. Limiting this to only ten players pr galaxy I think is the wrong way to go. I'd actually prefer alliances to have more leverage than they have atm. But for now the system with alliances works okay. |
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i know what ya saying auda but while you can still defend and attack in this game you will NEVER stop allies forming in pa
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Let's say two alliances go to war today. There are exceptions sure, but I'm willing to bet that this round all they're looking for is to offset one another's scores and very little else. There's a limited sense of struggle or contest, it's quite simply a score race. That's boring to think about and it's hard not to frown when talking about it.
Now let's suppose Audacious has his way and the nature of alliances changes. Two have gone to war because they both want 'power' and in the struggle for 'power' they've found the other one in the way. In a war game you would hope that was the case, that power would be contested and fought for. Power can be whatever you want it to be. The aim of these alliances is no longer to amass score but to defend and develop their interests. In my opinion, that's far more interesting. It should be left more for the players to decide what the game is about than pateam. A better system would surely let the players, flexible and changing as they are, bring about the evolution of the game within broader restrictions, than for pateam to continually try to re-direct it with rules and limitation. It doesn't feel like we're actually moving forward with the game round to round, it probably should. |
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yep i completly agree , take the allie rankings outta the game like it was few rds back would be more fun imo |
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Having looked at the discussions on this matter to date, it appears that there are a number of players that prefer it as it is and a number of whom would be strongly for change.
I myself see alliances as the pedestall of PA, everything and anything is based around alliances. This in a sense takes the game away from the personal goals and more towards a ranking war as is stated. Alliances are the making or breaking of new players, most of whom are inexperienced and need an alliance to get into the game and community and to stand any chance of success within the game. This fact alone could be seen as a factor in the decision of whether to continue or not continue with PA. Take a look this round at gals such as 12:9 and 13:4. Players have come into the game and as you can see by their scores, have given up. Half of whom will have never got into the game because of the fact they cant get a strong alliance. The change from alliance based to more galaxy based gives new, inexperienced players a stronger sense of community as its confined to the galaxy and means that you thrive to defend each other in order to gain a stronger base unit and as with all the speed games, its all galaxy based and rarely anything to do with allies. You can say that alliances will still form, or battlegroups more tbh. This is to be expected, but without the ally -1 eta, it means that once full eta is researched, out of gal def is limited and then you become more reliant upon the gal to help. I can see ways for this to succeed, but with every new idea there are pitfalls that will become apparent. Most of all a bit of change to the game wouldnt be so bad, would it? |
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The amount of effort and the amount of work the players that has made and upheld theese alliances all throughout the rounds of PA shouldnt be ignored or just seen as unpratical approach to the individual gaming expirience, it should be upheld as an example of a game that lives on on its 6th year in a jungle of games where almost all of the games have alot shorter life expectation than that. PA is a game about communities at a larger level than just the odd 10-12 players in a galaxy in my eyes, and while I respect the fact that some sees it differently I think that PA should to continue as an alliance based game. |
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You don't understand, Kargool. The alliances would mean as much as they did pre-r10 with his suggestion. THAT was a community, where the alliance stuck up to their members and not for the alliance rank itself. When they succeeded on the members, they also succeeded alliance wise.
Like I said, it's gonna be a hard job convincing people that this is a good idea and I very much doubt it'll go trough. |
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There is no right or wrong in that matter I feel, more its a matter of opinion. I think that the alliance still has its purpose and its importance in PA, but the way some of the latest round developed the alliance lost alot of importance, hopefully and seemingly it seems that alliances is being prioritised by the PA crew as a thing to improve for the future so that the alliances once again will be the centre of the focus for alot of players. I like to think and hope that the players that have played with me during the rounds have seen my alliance as an alliance that sticks up for their players and that promotes cooperation and friendship in it. |
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The excitement about alliances would also be much bigger without ranks. Remember AD pre-r10? Remember when you weren't 100% sure where you had your opponents? Politics is completely dull now and so is the discussions in AD, just because of the ranks and everyone know where they have eachother (just not when alliances hide players OOT). The alliances wouldn't loose their value because of removing the ranks, not at all. The strongest alliances would still be the one having most top100 planets and strongest galaxies. I'd love to see a round without alliance rankings, but I doubt it'll happen. |
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I learn't the game from my cluster alliance back in round 4 (i think). Grendel, Decoy and a few other legion (conc?) guys made C4E which, from my point of view, was an amazingly organised alliance and easily the best fun i've had playing.
I think most of what is called planetarions commnuity was created in those first few rounds. |
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I could agree with something like this, wrather than just throwing out alliances completely. Make incluster defence -1 and out of cluster defence impossible or something. Every round we would have a different group of people playing together against a different set of enimies. Instead of this seesaw gameplay we have going now, when alliances take turns winning(Thank you ascen for breaking this up last round) |
Re: Complete Overhaul of Pa
You could just take out the alliance ranking scores etc but reveal them at the end then you have to assume who you should target and war with.
Sure bigger alliances would do well because the big players would but without knowing who your hitting the bigger players will be targetted |
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And then we're back to normal. There's never any assumptions as to who to target - alliances know what they're doing, with or without tags. |
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I too would like to see more iteration of galaxies or even cluster, and not so much weight on alliances. But at the same time i can see how removing alliances can be troublesome to the realm of the game in its current condition. So in my opinion the best way to improve things would be to make alliances shortened to 30-40 members, force a smaller base which means there success is directly effected by the strength of its members and there galaxies. Which leads to the next problem of alliances padding galaxies on the buddy system, and also the lame tactic of not tagging members till late round *cough*, so revisions will need to be made to prevent this, which may end up being more work than the PA team would like. But smaller alliances would be the best way in my eyes, it'll force more politics as you'll need NAPs and the such, which also needs to be limited and controlled so one allie doesn't nap with the top 3so they can secure there #4 spot.
Lots of cause and effect of changing the games shape, but at the same time no change has evercame without problems at first, thats why were nearing the end of r17 and the game still isnt perfect so were gonna have a r18 with new changes. Change has to start somewhere with something. |
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In light of that last post, surely the shortening of alliances to betwen 30 and 40 members would then mean there is more competition between the alliances at the top, with smaller groups and better players spread amongst these allies. But in the same instance, it would mean ally naps etc forming between the top allies as is the case to date.
It could be seen as both constructive and destructive. |
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If alliances were completely removed from the in game system, and I were a member of a certain group where I had experience in military, internal and political organisation, I know how I'd react.
Even without an ingame tag, I would mobilise that group and use them to try and dominate their galaxies. Then I would use these galaxies to overpower a bunch of other galaxies each night to gain roids & rank. At the end of the round, I would ask each galaxy that had benefitted from the combined organisational and technical materials of the group to change their name to something with the group's tag. Then I, and a lot of other people I know would rate success by where this tag appeared in the rankings. I have seen, within my own alliance, people sacrifice their night's attacks, even their own rankings to protect a player or players they know/respect/owe a favour or is simply one of the group's top players (either by rank, or their contribution as an MO, or both), as the group takes pride in such 'flagship' planets or galaxies. I would do this, becauase if i didn't, other similar people would do exactly the same and overpower my galaxy and every other galaxy that didn't have backup, one at a time. Theory has to take into account the reactions and adaptions of the playerbase. :/ |
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Sounds more exciting to me.
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And soon you'll have 5 galaxies fighting for the same common goal, obviously avoiding eachother as that'd hurt their own ultimate goal. And there you have what pple would call an 'alliance'. |
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