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Unread 10 Jul 2017, 21:31   #1
Paisley
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SALVAGE for top planets

Hi folks,
I would like to see a tweak in salvage when the top planets take value losses after salvage. I get why it is like this when the top planets make a profit in salvage due to some shit players donating but when a planet takes a 100k value loss on a green def calc I think this needs tweaked
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Unread 10 Jul 2017, 21:32   #2
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Hi folks,
I would like to see a tweak in salvage when the top planets take value losses after salvage. I get why it is like this when the top planets make a profit in salvage due to some shit players donating but when a planet takes a 100k value loss on a green def calc I think this needs tweaked
If you take value loss and cant handle it, dont defend, run fleet.
People will land red calcs in the final stages of rounds, and people will land red calcs in a war situation.
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Unread 10 Jul 2017, 22:10   #3
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

Rather than making it easier to defend top planets, I'd prefer having a way of seeing how value losses/gains are distributed among participating fleets in the bcalc. That way you can tell more easily if the calc is 'green enough' for you.
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Unread 10 Jul 2017, 22:13   #4
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

not a bad suggestion
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Unread 11 Jul 2017, 11:21   #5
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
If you take value loss and cant handle it, dont defend, run fleet.
People will land red calcs in the final stages of rounds, and people will land red calcs in a war situation.
There's red calcs and there's crashing 5m value vs 1.3m value for 15% cap. Defence gained 200k salvage but the highest value defender lost 100k. At this rate, I can't use my own fleet to defend myself because whatever happens, I lose value unless attackers are fully EMP'd. Surely that's not what the salvage rules are designed to do, to stop top planets defending themselves at all?

I like mz suggestion, but I was already aware of the situation before land, calc actually had it worse than it turned out. Not sure why.
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Unread 11 Jul 2017, 11:47   #6
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

The salvage rules are designed to prevent cheating by donati-- I mean totally legitimate crashes by my friends and very-recently-kicked ally mates on a massive scale.

I haven't looked at them in-depth recently (or ever, really), but if that goal could be achieved without forcing top planets to run their fleets from every attacker, that'd be fine, I think.
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"And THEN," Mary was yelling and stomping up and down, "I'm going to take all the tiny little pieces of your body left over from the explosions and I'm going to put them in a bag and then I will throw it in the ocean so SHARKS will eat them! And then do you know what I'll be doing?" he screamed. "I... will... be... LAUGHING." He giggled. "AT YOU!" he added.
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Unread 11 Jul 2017, 18:19   #7
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
There's red calcs and there's crashing 5m value vs 1.3m value for 15% cap. Defence gained 200k salvage but the highest value defender lost 100k. At this rate, I can't use my own fleet to defend myself because whatever happens, I lose value unless attackers are fully EMP'd. Surely that's not what the salvage rules are designed to do, to stop top planets defending themselves at all?

I like mz suggestion, but I was already aware of the situation before land, calc actually had it worse than it turned out. Not sure why.
People have been crying out for more red calcs, and more of a war game.
People build SKs and arrange FCs even though it aint realy profitable for their own gains.

And as Mz pointed out, there was a certain ND HC who kept getting free steals a few years back
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Unread 11 Jul 2017, 21:05   #8
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
People have been crying out for more red calcs, and more of a war game.
If you (I assume that you're pulling your standard trick of presenting your personal point of view as if it is shared by the majority) want more war, you need to make war more profitable, not less.
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"And THEN," Mary was yelling and stomping up and down, "I'm going to take all the tiny little pieces of your body left over from the explosions and I'm going to put them in a bag and then I will throw it in the ocean so SHARKS will eat them! And then do you know what I'll be doing?" he screamed. "I... will... be... LAUGHING." He giggled. "AT YOU!" he added.
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Unread 11 Jul 2017, 21:22   #9
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

just look at every war in the history of the world...odds are the winners lost a fair amount. unless it was a big block war or there was no def irl....This is no different. either run your fleet or don't land on the suicides. it's really easy. People will find a way to exploit absolutely everything, there comes a time where the tears should just stop. quit the game or kill the exploiters.
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Unread 12 Jul 2017, 02:01   #10
BloodyButcher
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
If you (I assume that you're pulling your standard trick of presenting your personal point of view as if it is shared by the majority) want more war, you need to make war more profitable, not less.
If you (I assume that you're pulling your standard trick of presenting your personal point of view as if it is the universal truth) think that the most important reason for war should always be to get profits, maybe we have completely different point of view on the matter.

Red calc is a red calc, but if the goal is to beat you opponent to something (planet ranks, alliance rank, gal ranks) what is important is that the other side is worse than yours.
Issue being that the margins are way too low in PA now days.
Reasons being in my view small tag limits, short rounds, no comeback mechanism, etc..
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Unread 12 Jul 2017, 08:31   #11
Mzyxptlk
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
If you think that the most important reason for war should always be to get profits, maybe we have completely different point of view on the matter.
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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Red calc is a red calc, but if the goal is to beat you opponent to something (planet ranks, alliance rank, gal ranks) what is important is that the other side is worse than yours.
You fundamentally miss the problem. It doesn't matter what you or I feel a just reward for going to war is. The only thing that matters is how players weigh the incentives provided by the game. If people don't feel they're getting anything out of going to war, why would they?

And they don't, because there's a really good reason why we only care about our own losses when deciding whether to land an attack: PA is not a 1 vs. 1 game. Even if you lose less than your opponent does, there's always an alliance out there losing nothing, some of which are also in the running for #1. Any alliance that's willing to take losses to take down another alliance is essentially helping a third. It's a bad strategy. If you want more war, you have to provide incentives for people to want more war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
short rounds
By the way, "make profitable" does not necessarily mean "give people score for crashing". Longer rounds make wars more profitable by giving alliances longer to benefit from the spoils of war. Longer rounds have other downsides, of course: the longer a round goes on, the more people emoquit, get bored or just lose and are thus prevented from significantly influencing the round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
(I assume that you're pulling your standard trick of presenting your personal point of view as if it is the universal truth)
If I could make you copy everything I say, that would make things a lot easier.
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"And THEN," Mary was yelling and stomping up and down, "I'm going to take all the tiny little pieces of your body left over from the explosions and I'm going to put them in a bag and then I will throw it in the ocean so SHARKS will eat them! And then do you know what I'll be doing?" he screamed. "I... will... be... LAUGHING." He giggled. "AT YOU!" he added.
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Unread 12 Jul 2017, 14:19   #12
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Re: SALVAGE for top planets

Best incentive to war is..... ships don't count towards score. That way red calcs are not a killer
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