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Unread 9 May 2014, 23:21   #1
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Round 56 Alliance Stats

Tick 577 (53%)

Code:
+------+---------------------+---------+------------+------------+-----------+-----------+------------+---------------+----------+---------+---------------+---------------+
| rank | name                | members | real_score | real_value | real_incs | fake_incs | total_incs | incs_recalled | ally_def | gal_def | total_attacks | total_defence |
+------+---------------------+---------+------------+------------+-----------+-----------+------------+---------------+----------+---------+---------------+---------------+
|    1 | Spore               |      62 |  140124707 |  110907527 |      1209 |        20 |       1229 |           863 |     1335 |     253 |           934 |           793 |
|    2 | Vikings             |      57 |  114712859 |   86847719 |      1183 |        16 |       1199 |           635 |      957 |     284 |           760 |           678 |
|    3 | Conspiracy          |      57 |  103634493 |   71185473 |      1301 |         5 |       1306 |           624 |      915 |     330 |          1088 |           746 |
|    4 | Ultores             |      53 |   97417986 |   73839906 |      1682 |         6 |       1688 |          1085 |     1400 |     484 |           800 |          1246 |
|    5 | FAnG                |      55 |   99063321 |   75544821 |      1300 |         7 |       1307 |           754 |     1076 |     358 |           655 |           906 |
|    6 | Faceless            |      44 |   87588514 |   62125894 |      1173 |         5 |       1178 |           530 |      727 |     406 |           909 |           703 |
|    7 | Howling Rain        |      53 |   89396165 |   61754105 |      1156 |         4 |       1160 |           467 |      841 |     333 |           915 |           686 |
|    8 | NewDawn             |      56 |   91953373 |   56483773 |      1591 |        11 |       1602 |           460 |      833 |     321 |           976 |           641 |
|    9 | Immortals           |      42 |   75748834 |   57236734 |       797 |         8 |        805 |           403 |      561 |     301 |           788 |           495 |
|   10 | Insomnia            |      32 |   60792572 |   44235752 |       874 |        28 |        902 |           523 |      712 |     218 |           594 |           557 |
|   11 | Apprime             |      32 |   56056094 |   41110754 |       902 |         4 |        906 |           370 |      280 |     289 |           716 |           351 |
|   12 | ROCK                |      35 |   53679111 |   39186591 |       651 |         2 |        653 |           237 |      494 |     155 |           583 |           524 |
|   13 | HEROES              |      18 |   30808048 |   21747568 |       215 |         1 |        216 |            71 |       43 |      94 |           419 |           118 |
|   14 | Disintigrators      |      12 |   13014083 |    9594323 |       207 |         4 |        211 |            81 |       72 |      65 |           124 |           114 |
|   15 | PATSA               |       5 |    6193539 |    5798319 |        44 |         2 |         46 |            34 |        0 |      26 |             1 |            26 |
|   16 | N.A.T.O             |       5 |    4201145 |    2781245 |        81 |         0 |         81 |            20 |        0 |      40 |            36 |            54 |
|   17 | Happy Parrots       |       3 |    3523633 |    2858413 |        15 |         0 |         15 |             3 |        3 |       7 |            21 |            22 |
|   18 | Collective          |       4 |    3060387 |    2614347 |        29 |         0 |         29 |             4 |        2 |       4 |            29 |             7 |
|   19 | New Lunar Republic  |       2 |    2978067 |    2451147 |        31 |         1 |         32 |            13 |        0 |      12 |             4 |            44 |
|   20 | Top Gear            |       2 |    1570336 |    1190236 |        53 |         0 |         53 |             2 |        0 |       6 |            31 |             5 |
|   21 | Top Gun             |       1 |    1329708 |    1279188 |         5 |         0 |          5 |             2 |        0 |       3 |             1 |             1 |
|   22 | cobra               |       1 |    1311449 |    1110389 |         9 |         0 |          9 |             1 |        0 |       0 |             0 |            18 |
|   23 | bull                |       1 |    1630478 |    1189418 |        14 |         1 |         15 |             4 |        4 |       4 |             1 |            43 |
|   24 | scandinavian legion |       1 |    1143503 |     805703 |         2 |         0 |          2 |             0 |        0 |       1 |             2 |            32 |
|   25 | Hosselaar           |       1 |     985672 |     721132 |         3 |         0 |          3 |             0 |        0 |       0 |            17 |            11 |
|   26 | SJA                 |       1 |     968181 |     795741 |        13 |         0 |         13 |             3 |        0 |       7 |             7 |             0 |
|   27 | YGNF                |       1 |     394422 |     335562 |        13 |         0 |         13 |             2 |        0 |       5 |             1 |             0 |
|   28 | CLASS               |       1 |     728152 |     455872 |        16 |         0 |         16 |             2 |        0 |       0 |            22 |             0 |
|   29 | LazyDay             |       1 |     562505 |     454985 |         5 |         0 |          5 |             0 |        0 |       0 |             2 |             0 |
|   30 | NO WAY              |       1 |     292003 |     249403 |        22 |         0 |         22 |             3 |        0 |       2 |             9 |             3 |
|   34 | FiddleDee           |       1 |     736378 |     506158 |        29 |         0 |         29 |             3 |        0 |       3 |             4 |             5 |
+------+---------------------+---------+------------+------------+-----------+-----------+------------+---------------+----------+---------+---------------+---------------+
Tick 1177 (100%)
Code:
+------+----------------------+---------+------------+------------+-----------+-----------+------------+---------------+----------+---------+---------------+---------------+
| rank | name                 | members | real_score | real_value | real_incs | fake_incs | total_incs | incs_recalled | ally_def | gal_def | total_attacks | total_defence |
+------+----------------------+---------+------------+------------+-----------+-----------+------------+---------------+----------+---------+---------------+---------------+
|    1 | Spore                |      64 |  424536797 |  357660497 |      4681 |        75 |       4756 |          3233 |     3905 |     621 |          2229 |          2858 |
|    2 | Conspiracy           |      61 |  354802421 |  268773701 |      2829 |         8 |       2837 |          1543 |     2602 |     636 |          3041 |          2288 |
|    3 | Ultores              |      58 |  329577116 |  271418876 |      2644 |         6 |       2650 |          1766 |     2460 |     714 |          2476 |          2543 |
|    4 | Vikings              |      60 |  330423959 |  272659439 |      3170 |        35 |       3205 |          1806 |     2429 |     479 |          2061 |          2199 |
|    5 | FAnG                 |      51 |  260819149 |  208583149 |      2097 |        11 |       2108 |          1212 |     1897 |     553 |          1572 |          2067 |
|    6 | Howling Rain         |      55 |  268326687 |  203840787 |      2323 |        11 |       2334 |          1158 |     2004 |     565 |          2489 |          1972 |
|    7 | NewDawn              |      55 |  242045409 |  149054829 |      2967 |        12 |       2979 |          1132 |     2179 |     561 |          2670 |          2040 |
|    8 | Faceless             |      42 |  221994871 |  173201671 |      2112 |         7 |       2119 |          1072 |     1404 |     584 |          1876 |          1557 |
|    9 | ROCK                 |      39 |  142726289 |  111683669 |      1184 |        12 |       1196 |           539 |     1124 |     302 |          1169 |          1238 |
|   10 | Insomnia             |      33 |  132379840 |   94018360 |      1696 |        13 |       1709 |           868 |     1218 |     376 |          1345 |          1139 |
|   11 | Immortals            |      36 |  133249711 |  100741351 |      1404 |         6 |       1410 |           646 |      748 |     429 |          1666 |          1225 |
|   12 | Apprime              |      29 |   85708511 |   56357831 |      1240 |         5 |       1245 |           472 |      335 |     390 |          1171 |           550 |
|   13 | HEROES               |      16 |   84196564 |   53815864 |       409 |         1 |        410 |           120 |       77 |     143 |           972 |           212 |
|   14 | Disintigrators       |      11 |   28654861 |   21790021 |       349 |         5 |        354 |           136 |      125 |     119 |           283 |           242 |
|   15 | PATSA                |       5 |   14674970 |   14087930 |        57 |         2 |         59 |            42 |        0 |      33 |             1 |            35 |
|   16 | Happy Parrots        |       3 |    9642948 |    8218308 |        41 |         0 |         41 |            16 |       14 |      14 |            74 |            47 |
|   17 | N.A.T.O              |       5 |    6963749 |    5137349 |       122 |         0 |        122 |            28 |        0 |      43 |            30 |            29 |
|   18 | New Lunar Republic   |       2 |    6794729 |    6000929 |        58 |         1 |         59 |            31 |        0 |      29 |            12 |            65 |
|   19 | Really?              |       1 |    5691325 |    3665725 |        59 |         0 |         59 |            10 |        0 |      13 |           106 |             5 |
|   20 | Collective           |       2 |    4926287 |    4636607 |        16 |         0 |         16 |             1 |        0 |       3 |            18 |            11 |
|   21 | Factory              |       2 |    6426941 |    5569541 |        22 |         0 |         22 |            10 |       10 |       8 |             2 |            88 |
|   22 | Top Gear             |       2 |    3757985 |    2893085 |        70 |         0 |         70 |             6 |        0 |      16 |            56 |             9 |
|   23 | Skundbergs           |       3 |    3261688 |    2136028 |        17 |         0 |         17 |             2 |        0 |       1 |            19 |             4 |
|   24 | RYB                  |       1 |    3272221 |    2974741 |        26 |         0 |         26 |             6 |        2 |       4 |             4 |            40 |
|   25 | Moo                  |       3 |   11021583 |    8848083 |       195 |         0 |        195 |           109 |      115 |      68 |           182 |           166 |
|   26 | bull                 |       1 |    3680071 |    2859211 |        27 |         1 |         28 |             3 |        4 |       5 |             2 |            83 |
|   27 | EmpressCrash         |       1 |    3039461 |    2948621 |         6 |         0 |          6 |             0 |        0 |       2 |             1 |             0 |
|   28 | Top Gun              |       1 |    2938415 |    2825735 |        16 |         0 |         16 |             7 |        3 |       8 |             2 |             4 |
|   29 | cobra                |       1 |    2397678 |    1946718 |        11 |         0 |         11 |             2 |        0 |       1 |            19 |            31 |
|   30 | SJA                  |       1 |    2225901 |    2014521 |        17 |         0 |         17 |             3 |        0 |       7 |            15 |             0 |
|   31 | The Fist             |       1 |    1761420 |     976140 |         6 |         0 |          6 |             2 |        0 |       3 |             7 |             5 |
|   32 | Mimas house          |       1 |    1513585 |    1353385 |        16 |         0 |         16 |            10 |        0 |      15 |            10 |             3 |
|   33 | dis is alliance      |       1 |     769163 |     676103 |        18 |         0 |         18 |            13 |        1 |      15 |             0 |             1 |
|   34 | Sun-Ken Rock         |       1 |    1897953 |    1691133 |        18 |         0 |         18 |             0 |        2 |       3 |            13 |             6 |
|   35 | FiddleDee            |       1 |    1692385 |    1345345 |        34 |         0 |         34 |             2 |        0 |       2 |             6 |             7 |
|   36 | GoodPlace2GoAlliance |       1 |     978685 |     845245 |         3 |         0 |          3 |             0 |        0 |       0 |             9 |             3 |
|   37 | Cow Haters           |       1 |    1830947 |    1543727 |        11 |         0 |         11 |             4 |        2 |       1 |            12 |             0 |
|   38 | NO WAY               |       1 |     842852 |     689552 |        44 |         0 |         44 |             7 |        0 |       6 |            10 |             4 |
|   39 | Public Scanners      |       1 |    5786720 |    4546880 |        59 |         2 |         61 |            34 |       31 |       8 |            58 |            63 |
|   40 | V turn               |       1 |     665656 |     618256 |         2 |         0 |          2 |             1 |        0 |       0 |             1 |             0 |
+------+----------------------+---------+------------+------------+-----------+-----------+------------+---------------+----------+---------+---------------+---------------+
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Unread 9 May 2014, 23:26   #2
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

So yeah, Spore had the most incs.

What bellend said we had nothing compared?

Darts?!
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Unread 9 May 2014, 23:33   #3
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

well duh, we gave you them :P
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Unread 9 May 2014, 23:47   #4
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

What's noticeable is how good Spore have been defensively. Without getting a calculator out their % of incs recalled to those launched is better than everyone else's by quite a margin.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 00:16   #5
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

With getting a calculator out...

Incoming Fleets Recalled
Spore 68%
CT 54%
Ults 67%
Vik 56%

what may skew that somewhat is team-ups, spores incs would mainly be big team-ups due to their value.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 01:02   #6
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Vikings and Spore had a lot less incs than everyone else each member the first half of the round, even though their lead was allready quite massive. I think its obvious that preround deals was a massive factor this round.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 01:31   #7
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Vikings and Spore had a lot less incs than everyone else each member the first half of the round, even though their lead was allready quite massive. I think its obvious that preround deals was a massive factor this round.
Are we looking at the same stats?

Doesn't look a significant amount on average. ND had higher than normal due to Apprime gunning for them. Ultores had higher due to Spore hitting them.

Your jump to "the deals were clearly bad!!!111" has no merit based on these statistics right now. I'd say the deal was of benefit to both Vikings and Spore just as equally at the time. Vikings hardly cried over the fact we kept Ultores in check for them.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 01:33   #8
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

at that point i do remember forest emo at us putting more than 300 incs on spore :P
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Unread 10 May 2014, 01:46   #9
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Isn't these stats usually split into thirds of the round?
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Unread 10 May 2014, 05:28   #10
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Are there going to be any scan stats released, so us scanners can compare?
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Unread 10 May 2014, 08:12   #11
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Are we looking at the same stats?

Doesn't look a significant amount on average. ND had higher than normal due to Apprime gunning for them. Ultores had higher due to Spore hitting them.

Your jump to "the deals were clearly bad!!!111" has no merit based on these statistics right now. I'd say the deal was of benefit to both Vikings and Spore just as equally at the time. Vikings hardly cried over the fact we kept Ultores in check for them.
Actually Bitcher is right Zhil.

If you look at Spore & Ultores at tick 577.

Ult = 31.37 incs per member
Spore = 19.5 incs per member

That's a large difference. When looking at yourself and Vikings having the lowest number of incs (of the larger allies) its obvious a pre-rnd block did have its intended target, that being avoiding incs.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 08:21   #12
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

and spores incs probably continued being below average for a few hundred ticks after tick577, despite them having the most roids by far
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Unread 10 May 2014, 08:31   #13
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
What's noticeable is how good Spore have been defensively. Without getting a calculator out their % of incs recalled to those launched is better than everyone else's by quite a margin.
Clearly 1% more than Ultores is quite a margin!
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Unread 10 May 2014, 08:34   #14
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by jermain View Post
Actually Bitcher is right Zhil.

If you look at Spore & Ultores at tick 577.

Ult = 31.37 incs per member
Spore = 19.5 incs per member

That's a large difference. When looking at yourself and Vikings having the lowest number of incs (of the larger allies) its obvious a pre-rnd block did have its intended target, that being avoiding incs.
In the Ult - Spore fight, Ult grounded fleets every night and defended fully.
So during that whole fight we probably didn't even receive many incs from them, while we did give them quite a few.

So i dont think comparing average incs on Ult and Spore had anything to do with a pre round block.

Maybe it had a slight impact because of a bit less random incs from whatever ally we were friendly with causing us to be able to grow slightly faster in value, which again gave less random incs from other alliances, but the biggest impact surely was our big enemy not attacking back for a long time.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 09:00   #15
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Indeed, you have to look at the stats in context, stats can be made to say anything you want.

Looking at the tick 577 stats, I don't feel it is fair discussing how many incs per member. This is because incs are very rarely as random as people would think and usually on selected targets.
Spore got a lot of incoming at the start of the round (as most know, our complete memberlist including nicks/co-ords) was leaked very early, pre-tick 100 I think). Because we covered so much, our planets were less likely to be claimed so much, with people preffering to claim smaller alliances.
Then we entered a period where our main incoming was FL (and obv all the randoms). I think I am right in saying we had two full naps only, with insomnia and vikings. There was everyone else who could hit us. Ult chose not to and left FL to die. After we made peace with FL we entered a period where we got very very few incomings and prepared for war with Ult, though we did average 50-ish incs a night, it shows how high our incs were for the majority of the early round (certainly not low incs as some have suggested).
As has been pointed out, we then hit Ult and that was one-way traffic, resulting in the stats taht show Ult had more incs than us. They simply just grounded and didnt hit back (I even let some ppl three fleet in this period).

That leaves us the 3547 incs we encountered in the second part of the round. We did enter a quiet period. Then we had a few days of CT incoming (we also had a night or two of ct/ult, though I cant remember when!).
24 days works out at 147 incs a night. Consider there were a few periods of no incoming (lets say last 2 nights and the 2 nights before Viks hit us) and a couple of other random nights when CT went elsewhere, and that has then taken the total up to 200 a night on the nights we had incs. Also consider the nights we have only ct incs of around 40-60 incs and you see the figures bandied around for the last two weeks are absolutely correct.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 09:33   #16
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
In the Ult - Spore fight, Ult grounded fleets every night and defended fully.
So during that whole fight we probably didn't even receive many incs from them, while we did give them quite a few.

So i dont think comparing average incs on Ult and Spore had anything to do with a pre round block.

Maybe it had a slight impact because of a bit less random incs from whatever ally we were friendly with causing us to be able to grow slightly faster in value, which again gave less random incs from other alliances, but the biggest impact surely was our big enemy not attacking back for a long time.
Tick 577:
Spore has 15.06 attacks per member
Ultores has 15.09 attacks per member
I wouldnt say Spore attacked more...

Lets assume that by tick 577 80% of attacks of Spore went towards Ultores and viceversa:
Spore total incs 1229 -> 640(52%) from Ultores -> 589(48%) other incs -> 9.5 incs per member which were not from Ultores
Ultores total incs 1688(44%) ->747 from Spore -> 941(56%) other incs -> 17.75 incs per member which were not from Spore

Add that to the fact that Spore strat was very efficient vs Ultores strat and the fact they had 20% more members AND that Ultores actually had 26% more incs from non Spore than they did from Spore by tick 577 ofc Ultores had to ground fleets some nights.

See the difference? Its exactly what jermain post was about. The pre-round deals Spore had did exactly what they were supposed to do: reduce random incs. And Spore only had half the random incs per member that Ultores had.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 10:43   #17
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeJay View Post
Tick 577:
Spore has 15.06 attacks per member
Ultores has 15.09 attacks per member
I wouldnt say Spore attacked more...

Lets assume that by tick 577 80% of attacks of Spore went towards Ultores and viceversa:
Spore total incs 1229 -> 640(52%) from Ultores -> 589(48%) other incs -> 9.5 incs per member which were not from Ultores
Ultores total incs 1688(44%) ->747 from Spore -> 941(56%) other incs -> 17.75 incs per member which were not from Spore

Add that to the fact that Spore strat was very efficient vs Ultores strat and the fact they had 20% more members AND that Ultores actually had 26% more incs from non Spore than they did from Spore by tick 577 ofc Ultores had to ground fleets some nights.

See the difference? Its exactly what jermain post was about. The pre-round deals Spore had did exactly what they were supposed to do: reduce random incs. And Spore only had half the random incs per member that Ultores had.
Deejay is spot on as per usual.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 11:37   #18
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Let's not believe the hype of spore being the only one to nap ;p

At the time of Spore hitting Ult, Ult was in a block room with Ult/FL/Fang/Immortals and in discussions with others.

Agar3s threatened them all, hit spore with us or we will hit you.

I would suggest that would equal it out somewhat
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Unread 10 May 2014, 11:38   #19
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Angry Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

I respect other opinions, but no one will hear from me a distancing from Spore. Basic criticisms on our shortcomings and deficits? Yes! Painful self-criticism? I feel obliged to do so. But I won't denounce anyone or anything.

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Unread 10 May 2014, 12:07   #20
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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I respect other opinions, but no one will hear from me a distancing from Spore. Basic criticisms on our shortcomings and deficits? Yes! Painful self-criticism? I feel obliged to do so. But I won't denounce anyone or anything.

@ Forest & Varok.

Just to clarify, I don't believe there has been any criticism in this thread (ignore Bitcher). We are simply discussing the stats and what affected them this rnd.

I personally think you played very well and fully deserved the win.

You outsmarted/outmatched/outmuscled/outgrew and had better politics than all of the other allies.

The stats do clearly show that your politics helped you win the round (among other things) in this case by having a pre-rnd NAP. The stats are clearly white and arguing that there black is pointless as Deejay has shown.

Again.

Congrats on your win

p.s. stop being so defensive! not everyone/everything is a dig at you.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 13:13   #21
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Are we looking at the same stats?

Doesn't look a significant amount on average. ND had higher than normal due to Apprime gunning for them. Ultores had higher due to Spore hitting them.

Your jump to "the deals were clearly bad!!!111" has no merit based on these statistics right now. I'd say the deal was of benefit to both Vikings and Spore just as equally at the time. Vikings hardly cried over the fact we kept Ultores in check for them.
We got to look at the value and roid lead, alliances goes for either roids, or the biggest competitor.
Even the incs Spore/Vikings had was from waaay smaller valued allies, thus for must be looked as far easier than if tge incs was from each other.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 01:08   #22
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeJay View Post
Tick 577:
Spore has 15.06 attacks per member
Ultores has 15.09 attacks per member
I wouldnt say Spore attacked more...

Lets assume that by tick 577 80% of attacks of Spore went towards Ultores and viceversa:
Spore total incs 1229 -> 640(52%) from Ultores -> 589(48%) other incs -> 9.5 incs per member which were not from Ultores
Ultores total incs 1688(44%) ->747 from Spore -> 941(56%) other incs -> 17.75 incs per member which were not from Spore

Add that to the fact that Spore strat was very efficient vs Ultores strat and the fact they had 20% more members AND that Ultores actually had 26% more incs from non Spore than they did from Spore by tick 577 ofc Ultores had to ground fleets some nights.

See the difference? Its exactly what jermain post was about. The pre-round deals Spore had did exactly what they were supposed to do: reduce random incs. And Spore only had half the random incs per member that Ultores had.
I'd like to point out that it wasn't pre-round deals that did this but more likely deals I completed throughout the round. Once I had deals in place with CT and Faceless, we decided to go for the jugular with Ultores as they were isolated and normally Ultores gets to strike when it wants too.

We wanted to instead knock Ultores out their comfort zone. The political deals I completed up till that point had been entirely to reduce support for Ultores so that there could be more of a 1 vs 1 environment, to which I naturally knew Spore would be better off.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 02:47   #23
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
I'd like to point out that it wasn't pre-round deals that did this but more likely deals I completed throughout the round. Once I had deals in place with CT and Faceless, we decided to go for the jugular with Ultores as they were isolated and normally Ultores gets to strike when it wants too.

We wanted to instead knock Ultores out their comfort zone. The political deals I completed up till that point had been entirely to reduce support for Ultores so that there could be more of a 1 vs 1 environment, to which I naturally knew Spore would be better off.
Had it not been for our pre-round deal I am fairly certain we would have put at least 200 fleets on Spore just in the first week. Simply because Spore were fat and with your race setup you would have been our natural targets. We would not have supported Ultores regardless tho. But if we didn't have our pre-round deal you would have had to have a way more dispersed fleetsetup and fighting Ultores would likely have proved harder than it did.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 07:20   #24
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

What a crock. You talk as if you are the only alliance that had the fleet strat you did, when the truth is there were many others who did too.

The war with Ult didn't start until way after the first week, way after we had warred FL infact.

Had you put 200 fleets on us in the first week, we would have dealt with you as swiftly as we dealt with our other threats.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 08:43   #25
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
What a crock. You talk as if you are the only alliance that had the fleet strat you did, when the truth is there were many others who did too.

The war with Ult didn't start until way after the first week, way after we had warred FL infact.

Had you put 200 fleets on us in the first week, we would have dealt with you as swiftly as we dealt with our other threats.
Are you just special??

What Infy said was just fact. If a full tag of cr\vs like Vikings hadn't been napped they would have put 150+ fleets on you in a week easy. Easy. You wouldn't have 'dealt' with them and ultores at the same time, you wouldn't have had the roids/value to do so. Your pre round nap gave you a major advantage in the first 400 ticks because it removed what would have been your biggest weakness , 60 cr/bsfleets potentially roiding your fat little planets meaning your fi/co fleets would have been smaller because you would have actually had to build some defence ships.

Get off your shouty box you look like a twat
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Unread 11 May 2014, 09:05   #26
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Are you just special??

What Infy said was just fact. If a full tag of cr\vs like Vikings hadn't been napped they would have put 150+ fleets on you in a week easy. Easy. You wouldn't have 'dealt' with them and ultores at the same time, you wouldn't have had the roids/value to do so. Your pre round nap gave you a major advantage in the first 400 ticks because it removed what would have been your biggest weakness , 60 cr/bsfleets potentially roiding your fat little planets meaning your fi/co fleets would have been smaller because you would have actually had to build some defence ships.

Get off your shouty box you look like a twat
just like ct? or hr?

yeah you must be right
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Unread 11 May 2014, 09:09   #27
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

and you miss the whole point.

we wouldnt have dealt with ult/viks at same time in the same way as we didnt do fl/ult at same time.

WE picked the times of war, and thats the difference.

also, had ult/vik hit us together, spore would have been able to have gotton a lot of support.

and i dont see how viks would have hit us anyway, firstly everyone was gal raiding and secondly, viks spet the round hitting as far down the ranks as possible

spore met our competitors in war, we stopped them winning and thats ultimetly why they werent a threat
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Unread 11 May 2014, 09:18   #28
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
and you miss the whole point.

we wouldnt have dealt with ult/viks at same time in the same way as we didnt do fl/ult at same time.

WE picked the times of war, and thats the difference.

also, had ult/vik hit us together, spore would have been able to have gotton a lot of support.

and i dont see how viks would have hit us anyway, firstly everyone was gal raiding and secondly, viks spet the round hitting as far down the ranks as possible

spore met our competitors in war, we stopped them winning and thats ultimetly why they werent a threat

No see unsurprisingly you have missed the point, had you not napped Vikings then they would have gal raided your fat little planets.

I'm not talking about warring you I'm just talking about raiding spore planets.

If you had had to worry about the most active of the cr/vs alliances on top of rest then you would have had to have put a lot more value into anti cr/bs which would have meant your fi/co fleets would have been more in line with the rest of universe and you wouldn't have walked over ultores.

Regarding Vikings raiding from playing a few rounds with them and doing a bit of bcing I can happily say that first 250-300 ticks they hit t10 gals nightly, they prefer bottom feed I g mid round whilst they grow value normally.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 10:14   #29
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Had you given us 200 fleets over 1 week, as you claim, I can assure you I would have set targets to wipe you out fast.

That's how I roll.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 10:27   #30
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

all hypothetically speaking ofc.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 10:32   #31
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

of course
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Unread 11 May 2014, 10:38   #32
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Had you given us 200 fleets over 1 week, as you claim, I can assure you I would have set targets to wipe you out fast.
lol. Are you for real? Maybe at the end of the round when your value was more superier, but at the start and maybe middle of the round, you wouldn't have "walked over us" as you claim because you wouldn't have had the value

You know Forest, with your stinky arrogant attitude on AD, you are potentially putting Spore in a bad spot for next round.

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Unread 11 May 2014, 10:40   #33
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Doubt it, I've quit and am no longer Spore.

And as you know, no-one listens to me anyway
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Unread 11 May 2014, 10:42   #34
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

How does that work anyway?

Viks post to slag off Spore. I post to say why I believe the post is wrong.

And I am the one with the attitude?
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Unread 11 May 2014, 10:48   #35
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
How does that work anyway?

Viks post to slag off Spore. I post to say why I believe the post is wrong.

And I am the one with the attitude?
I don't see anyone from Vikings slagging Spore off, they are merely commenting on their perspective in a non aggressive and arrogant way. You however are being arrogant and aggressive by adding comments like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Had you given us 200 fleets over 1 week, as you claim, I can assure you I would have set targets to wipe you out fast.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:00   #36
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

And what is inaccurate about that?

Spore NEVER bottle down from a fight and we WILL go it alone. Infact, as I believe over the past 3 rounds spore could take any alliance on 1 v 1, avoiding blocks was always the best bet.

It isnt't the first round we took on Ult alone and carried on alone. We can only beat what is in front of us.

The first main round we lost because we had beaten FaNG comprehensively and they decided to FC us.
Second round, because we were being hit by a block, allowing a smaller alliance to add to tag (remove the 5 or so alliances hitting us and we would have won).
This round we avoided blocks for the most part and you saw the result.

YOU lost because of YOUR actions.
I keep seeing FL being bandied around as the reason you lost.

Fact is, Spore/FL had a war early on, but because our HC are not emotional little children, we came to an amicable end (and made some friends in the process, it is after all a game).

You lost because you emo, continue 'wars' out of spite and from past rounds, and consequently paid for your actions.

I am almost certain, had you treated FL nicely (and I remind you, they asked repeatedly for Ult targets, you refused to work with them then bitched at me when they gave up trying to support your efforts against Ult), then you would have won. Spore couldn't have sustained 300 incs + viks hitting us full on + viks not losing score from FC's.

FL were a natural enemy to Ult after Ult refused to help FL, and then later hit FL because FL wouldnt hit ult.
It was all set up.

YOUR alliance emo put paid to that and yet again, cost you a win cause you:

1) Had no balls and ran to Ult, agreeing a nap as soon as they threatened you, and
2) Fixated on some stupid perceieved threat from someone that was not only willing to help you out, but ASKING repeatedly.

In effect, Faceless made a great contribution to the end results (of you ending 4th), but it was YOUR actions that caused that to happen.

Before replying (or editing an earlier post after others reply, which seems to be your way lately), go google cause and effect.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:21   #37
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
How does that work anyway?

Viks post to slag off Spore. I post to say why I believe the post is wrong.

And I am the one with the attitude?
Nobody is slagging Spore of, if anything people are slagging Vikings of.
Pre-round deals has been ruining a lot of good rounds in PA, and Spore ruined last round with one.
CR/BS fleets were the best strat vs FI/CO/FR/DE, having the biggest CR/BS allie gunning for everyone else than Spore was a MAJOR advantage
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:23   #38
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
I don't see anyone from Vikings slagging Spore off, they are merely commenting on their perspective in a non aggressive and arrogant way. You however are being arrogant and aggressive by adding comments like:
Well its forest the most powerfull player of pa ever. He would wipe your whole ally with his fleet alone.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:25   #39
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Well its forest the most powerfull player of pa ever. He would wipe your whole ally with his fleet alone.
This is actually true story, Pal.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:29   #40
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Nobody is slagging Spore of, if anything people are slagging Vikings of.
Pre-round deals has been ruining a lot of good rounds in PA, and Spore ruined last round with one.
CR/BS fleets were the best strat vs FI/CO/FR/DE, having the biggest CR/BS allie gunning for everyone else than Spore was a MAJOR advantage
I would say that CT was the biggest cr/bs ally tbh, and at least they hit up the ranks and not down.

I am saying it wasn't a pre-round nap that made the round end as it was, but a failure by our many enemies to hit us when they had the chances.

I remind you, when spore where hitting Ult, Ult were in a block room of what, 5 alliances?
Those alliances chose not to hit us not because of spores actions but because of Ults actions.
In the same way, people at the end chose to FC viks, not because of spores actions but because of Viks actions.

We were NEVER blocked enough to stop people killing us, but as I have pointed out, it is the actions of our enemies that has impacted on that, and not any deals we did or did not have.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:32   #41
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I would say that CT was the biggest cr/bs ally tbh, and at least they hit up the ranks and not down.

I am saying it wasn't a pre-round nap that made the round end as it was, but a failure by our many enemies to hit us when they had the chances.

I remind you, when spore where hitting Ult, Ult were in a block room of what, 5 alliances?
Those alliances chose not to hit us not because of spores actions but because of Ults actions.
In the same way, people at the end chose to FC viks, not because of spores actions but because of Viks actions.

We were NEVER blocked enough to stop people killing us, but as I have pointed out, it is the actions of our enemies that has impacted on that, and not any deals we did or did not have.
I was in that channel.... Those alliances did not hit you because they were naped to you (faceless,fang).... we hit vikings for a day or two then and that was that.

Faceless and fang are the greatest allies ever to play this game all they can do is nap nap and nap.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:37   #42
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Hunterrrr View Post
I was in that channel.... Those alliances did not hit you because they were naped to you (faceless,fang).... we hit vikings for a day or two then and that was that.
Factually incorrect.

FaNG was only ever a fort avoidance (I picked targets, we hit them in non-fort gals and they could have done the same).

Faceless we were at war with. Faceless asked Ult for support. Ult refused.
So when spore/fl were finished we agreed a one week full avoidance to let things calm down, then switching to fort avoidance.

Ult could have hit us with fl when we were at war.

Or Ult could have hit our forts whilst FL/Fang picked us off. Throw in App/CT too.
How many alliances did you think you needed?
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:41   #43
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Factually incorrect.

FaNG was only ever a fort avoidance (I picked targets, we hit them in non-fort gals and they could have done the same).

Faceless we were at war with. Faceless asked Ult for support. Ult refused.
So when spore/fl were finished we agreed a one week full avoidance to let things calm down, then switching to fort avoidance.

Ult could have hit us with fl when we were at war.

Or Ult could have hit our forts whilst FL/Fang picked us off. Throw in App/CT too.
How many alliances did you think you needed?
Fort avoidance, nap same shit.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:43   #44
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Had you given us 200 fleets over 1 week, as you claim, I can assure you I would have set targets to wipe you out fast.

That's how I roll.
The 'wipe you out' is hilarious. If you had wiped out Ultores how did an ult player manage to win the round?? Your wiping out skills obviously lack some bite to go with your bark.

Let me put this point to you again, maybe 3rd time is a charm. If Vikings had put 150+ fleets on you in a week and we divide that by 7 that is a little over 21 fleets a night. Now if we are talking about teams of 2 then that is 10 waves a night - or 5 waves on 2 spore planets. There was A LOT of gals with 2-3 Spores in it ,in fact it made gal raiding a pain when bcing for fang. So there is a high chance there would be 2-3 Spores in a impartial gal raid raid. So you would go to war over normal incs?

Now I'm trying to understand the logistics so skip the rhetoric ok? How would you have logistically warred and walked over Ultores whilst wiping out Vikings? How would you have changed your fleet setups to combat Vikings whilst needing massive fi/co fleets to walk over ultores? How would you have got all this extra value needed when you are getting free roided by cr/bs alliances and warring 2 alliances at the same time.... Something doesn't add up.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 11:56   #45
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Spore played a high quality round and won comprehensively. As we saw last round, if the whole universe gangs up on you, you can be as good as you want and winning is tough. Things like that don't happen often. Obviously they aren't a peak ascendancy or apprime but they are extremely good operators, who take advantage of the situation they find not just pre-round, but throughout it.

In my view faceless/fang to spore was decisive, as it meant they always had enough to pin down their enemies and hold their lead. From that point on it was all about not losing fleets and keeping a cool head, ie not ****ing up. Pre-round deals, while a factor are just a distraction.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:19   #46
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
The 'wipe you out' is hilarious. If you had wiped out Ultores how did an ult player manage to win the round?? Your wiping out skills obviously lack some bite to go with your bark.
We made a conscious decision that afetr 300 incs a night for 2 weeks, we couldn't defend our top planet and were interested in just the alliance win. We made this clear to all.

And you can never wipe out an alliance completely, but you can wipe them out so they were no longer a threat. With our war, Ult were simply not a threat to a spore win.

We made a choice to let Hasu win. We could have roided him but that would have meant Sleepless (who napped spore when we were at war with ct and only broke that when 300 incs started showing) or mikee (heh) winning.

We made our choices to go for alliance win and I am perfectly comfortable with that decision.

We must have had some bark, we ended 50m ahead of our nearest rival.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Let me put this point to you again, maybe 3rd time is a charm. If Vikings had put 150+ fleets on you in a week and we divide that by 7 that is a little over 21 fleets a night. Now if we are talking about teams of 2 then that is 10 waves a night - or 5 waves on 2 spore planets. There was A LOT of gals with 2-3 Spores in it ,in fact it made gal raiding a pain when bcing for fang. So there is a high chance there would be 2-3 Spores in a impartial gal raid raid. So you would go to war over normal incs?
PA just doesn't get this. Ult does. But as a rule, people don't understand it.

So let me put this in simple terms.

Gal raiding does NOT have to lead to war. Even 50-60 incs a night from the same alliance doesn't have to lead to war. Sadly, in pa these days, you gal raid and get 4 or 5 pm's from different alliances whining over incoming.

Oh and the post stated 200+ incs in a week. I would suggest that may lead to war

I also though doubt it would have happened. As has been shown, Vikings wanted to hit down the ranks the whole round. That may seem wrong to you, but I can state now, it is my belief that Vikings wouldn't have hit us hard, for fear of us smacking you back.

That is all it can be, as Esper said, we can't prove anything.
We can say though with some accuracy that Vikings hit down the ranks and lost. Spore hit their main enemies and won.

I don't think that is disputable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Now I'm trying to understand the logistics so skip the rhetoric ok? How would you have logistically warred and walked over Ultores whilst wiping out Vikings? How would you have changed your fleet setups to combat Vikings whilst needing massive fi/co fleets to walk over ultores? How would you have got all this extra value needed when you are getting free roided by cr/bs alliances and warring 2 alliances at the same time.... Something doesn't add up.
Ok this is easy to answer.

Firstly, we wouldn't have needed to war two alliances. WE picked the moment we went to war with Ult, Ult had the chance to war us with faceless and declined.
I am pretty sure after early skirmishes (and us roiding you, you were wide open to co/fr) there would have been some kind of truce.
1 v 1, we would have beaten you pretty comprehensively (IMO).

Now about fleets. Your point is a clear one. It also misses some crucial facts.

Firstly (as I have stated), we pumped anti-fi to deal with ult but had a LOT of stocks ready to spam anti-cr/bs. We were able to use block intel (remember, there was a block but it was having issues working together), to spend for the right ships at the right time.
Now, should we have warred Viks first, we would have had anti-bs but then massive stocks to spam anti-fi when the time came. (Remember, again at a time of our choosing).
It also helped that you were different strats. Should Ult/Vik have hit us, we would have been able to ground and cover both of you (I am basing this on the fact that when Ult/CT hit us, we did just that).
It is also my opinion, that had Ult/Vik hit us together, others would have come to our aid and you would have a lot more than just us hitting you.

Infact, I think had Viks hit us early, we would have had MORE roids, not less. I base thison the fact that war is only ever good if you can hit your opponant hard and that is what we would have done. I don't believe you would have got near us, knowing we were able to stop 100+ fleets VERY early on without grounding, due to our strat.


I will be fiercely defensive of my guys. A lot has been talked about politics being the reason we won but they have been mega active (when we got 160 incs from ult/ct, 60/65 members were online within an hour), a superb defence team, and members who worked all round looking out for each other.
I worked incredibly hard (maybe more than in ANY round, back to R1) in not napping people but isolating our enemies (as did others).

Military wise, other alliances were loathe to hit us because they would not get through, and then get a shit load of retals (one alliance hc who won't be named complained to me personally that our retals were too hard lol).

Politics are nothing if you have inactive members or members that don't care if they crash, and we crashed a lot less than other alliances.

So now I have risen to the baiting of a common variety garden troll, but you at least know why I think you are wrong.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:20   #47
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I would say that CT was the biggest cr/bs ally tbh
The Value on Kia stated otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
and at least they hit up the ranks and not down.
We galaxy raided up until a block formed on us. Faceless/FAnG may have been (in your view) lower tier tags, but it's not our fault if they wanted to tag team against us, and of course we were going to retaliate.

And you talking about hitting down the ranks is quite ironically hilarious, because if I recall correctly, Spore were "bullying" Faceless (a 40 man against a 65 man tag) and refused to back off.

Spore's move on Faceless (much like ours on Faceless/FAnG) was politics, pure and simple. It had nothing to do with "farming" or what not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I am saying it wasn't a pre-round nap that made the round end as it was, but a failure by our many enemies to hit us when they had the chances.

Those alliances chose not to hit us not because of spores actions but because of Ults actions.
In the same way, people at the end chose to FC viks, not because of spores actions but because of Viks actions.
Our enemies have the tendency to give up more easily than your enemies and thus we became a victim of fleetcatching trolls.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:20   #48
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Spore played a high quality round and won comprehensively. As we saw last round, if the whole universe gangs up on you, you can be as good as you want and winning is tough. Things like that don't happen often. Obviously they aren't a peak ascendancy or apprime but they are extremely good operators, who take advantage of the situation they find not just pre-round, but throughout it.

In my view faceless/fang to spore was decisive, as it meant they always had enough to pin down their enemies and hold their lead. From that point on it was all about not losing fleets and keeping a cool head, ie not ****ing up. Pre-round deals, while a factor are just a distraction.

Pretty much spot on.

I am getting a bit fed up with people saying things like 'but yo wouldnt have beaten xxx alliance in xx round'.

We can only beat what was in front of us.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:20   #49
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Spore played a high quality round and won comprehensively. As we saw last round, if the whole universe gangs up on you, you can be as good as you want and winning is tough. Things like that don't happen often. Obviously they aren't a peak ascendancy or apprime but they are extremely good operators, who take advantage of the situation they find not just pre-round, but throughout it.

In my view faceless/fang to spore was decisive, as it meant they always had enough to pin down their enemies and hold their lead. From that point on it was all about not losing fleets and keeping a cool head, ie not ****ing up. Pre-round deals, while a factor are just a distraction.
Spore played well, they outgrew everyone and their politis were great.
Its not their fault the round got stagnated its everyone else fault they didnt want to act when it was still possible to level the playing field.


[14:47:58] [[Dshed]Doza_]: u napped spore could not have waited another week
[14:58:21] [agar3ss]: everyone left ult out to dry
[14:58:27] [agar3ss]: we got p targetted for 9 days
[14:58:31] [agar3ss]: asked everyone for help
[14:58:37] [agar3ss]: only ally #9 & #11 gave it
[14:58:51] [agar3ss]: so no we couldnt wait another week of being p targetted


15:52 Vistion ult wanted to bully threaten us
15:52 Vistion attack spore or we ptarget u
15:52 Vistion so ult loses
15:52 Vistion idc
15:53 Vistion ult didnt help us begining of rd
15:53 Vistion when we needed them
15:53 Vistion so why would i help them when they need it
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Unread 11 May 2014, 12:25   #50
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Re: Round 56 Alliance Stats

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
What a crock. You talk as if you are the only alliance that had the fleet strat you did, when the truth is there were many others who did too.

The war with Ult didn't start until way after the first week, way after we had warred FL infact.

Had you put 200 fleets on us in the first week, we would have dealt with you as swiftly as we dealt with our other threats.
Little doubt in my mind the number of fleets from Spore on us would have been big too. What would have happened and how swiftly you would have dealt with us is pure hypotheticals tho. Continueing the hypotheticals, if we had put that amount of fleets on you, we wouldn't have been at war with FAnG and Faceless. In fact we most likely would have had a deal with FAnG.

I'm not basing my estimates on thin air btw, the amount of times both Rexdrax and myself had to say no to our BC's suggesting spore filled gals was really large.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
YOU lost because of YOUR actions.
I keep seeing FL being bandied around as the reason you lost.

Fact is, Spore/FL had a war early on, but because our HC are not emotional little children, we came to an amicable end (and made some friends in the process, it is after all a game).

You lost because you emo, continue 'wars' out of spite and from past rounds, and consequently paid for your actions.

I am almost certain, had you treated FL nicely (and I remind you, they asked repeatedly for Ult targets, you refused to work with them then bitched at me when they gave up trying to support your efforts against Ult), then you would have won. Spore couldn't have sustained 300 incs + viks hitting us full on + viks not losing score from FC's.

FL were a natural enemy to Ult after Ult refused to help FL, and then later hit FL because FL wouldnt hit ult.
It was all set up.

YOUR alliance emo put paid to that and yet again, cost you a win cause you:

1) Had no balls and ran to Ult, agreeing a nap as soon as they threatened you, and
2) Fixated on some stupid perceieved threat from someone that was not only willing to help you out, but ASKING repeatedly.

In effect, Faceless made a great contribution to the end results (of you ending 4th), but it was YOUR actions that caused that to happen.

Before replying (or editing an earlier post after others reply, which seems to be your way lately), go google cause and effect.
Nowhere have I seen any Vikings HC state that it wasn't our own actions that caused the amount and determination of Faceless hostilities toward us. In fact, many a times we stated that Faceless warring us was no surprise with the sheer amount of incs we put on them in the first 10 days.
The only thing we did state was that we had absolutely no faith in FAnG and Faceless really honouring the deal they had with Vikings. We were afraid we were used as a pure diversion to get Ultores away from Spore and onto us, after which we fully expected Faceless to switch back on us. A Faceless HC later confirmed that they actually wanted to support Ultores, and hadn't it been for their 'powertripping' officer they would not have engaged in a deal with us. The fact that Faceless continuously hit galaxies with 2 Vikings in it (and apart from one night no more than 2 Ultores) did not instill more faith on our end, and led me to spur Spore to start coordinating things, instead of telling Faceless to 'talk to Vikings for coordination'. Also, we didn't refuse to work with them, at the time Faceless notified us of where they were hitting we ensured those targets weren't hit by us, or any of our other allies. We just never shared where we and our other allies were hitting because the Faceless representative we were dealing with usually went offline after sharing where they were hitting.

When we broke away from you we were perfectly aware we would end 4th. In fact, we repeatedly told Ultores and CT to maximize their XP gains on Spore as we would not have a chance. When we broke away from you we were already dead due to inactivity throughout our ranks. The only way we could get some activity back was by hitting the alliance that was by far the most hostile towards us in this round, and with whom we still had a bone to pick from last round.

Also, support Vikings efforts against Ultores? Don't you mean Spores efforts against Ultores, as we were only hitting them at your request?

P.S. If a mod reads this can you please split the thread up from the moment Forest got involved, as this discussion is WAY has nothing at all to do with the alliance stats
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