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Unread 16 Oct 2013, 15:33   #1
Patrikc
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R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Hi all, I've changed the Beta stats to those of last round (r52). I've chosen these stats because round 52 seems to have been the most well distributed round in recent history in terms of race representation/rankings.

I still need to recheck EMP efficiencies, and I have made some initial changes, they are as follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Changes
Normal ships' resources in Cat/Zik/Etd normalized

Ter Wyvern a/c 650 -> 614

Cat Beetle init 1 -> 2, ERes increased

Zik Co switched around, names changed to Cutter/Cutlass
Zik Cutlass (fi/co stealer) a/c d/c reduced
Zik Pirate D/C 491 -> 458
zik Clipper init 20 -> 19


Etd Merchant -> Interceptor, a/c 500 -> 476, d/c 312 ->357
Etd Interceptor -> Thief
Etd Ranger cloak removed
Etd Battleships switched, costs/ERes increased, a/c d/c unaffected
Etd Broker -> Guardian

Things I wanted to achieve with these changes:

Bs was pretty strong this round and I wanted to reduce their strength slightly - Wyvern's armour was incredibly high so I felt a nerf was appropriate. Along with that I brought Etd Bs's costs closer to Ter Bs so it doesn't flak as well for Ter.

Cat/Zik Co always is good together, and Fi was fairly weak - raising Beetle's init while also bolstering its EMP resistance means it will get frozen by Spider before it fires, but not as much as the average Corvette. On top of that, the Zik Co stealing fi/co needed to be a bit weaker. I do think Co->Fi/Co is very strong itself, but many see this as a 'signature ship' of Zik, so as long as its power isn't over the edge it'll be fine.

Etd Fr was the big bad wolf r52, and while I have no problem with Xan being basically defenseless against it, I do think the Ranger being cloaked is a bit too much. This way, Etd is a little easier to counterattack by Xan Fi if their Rangers are out, and Etd will have a harder time faking them ingal.


Things I am still pondering about:

I don't much like Xan Fi stopping itself, but there isn't much leeway with targeting for Xan.

Bs teamed up is still quite fearsome, while De is pretty strong on defense (primarily because it's good vs Bs).

Gryphon seems like a waste of space, as both attackfleets of Ter already have and need anti-Cr.
Bomber I don't recall being built much either. While it is not bad vs Etd Bs, Xans will be able to attack with De and amassing Ghost just seems like the smarter thing to do. It does have its niche, though.
Scorpion is in a similar spot, even if you don't go Cr the Roach is probably more efficient in 9/10 scenarios as it freezes first.

Thoughts?
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Unread 16 Oct 2013, 15:41   #2
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

As I said, I thought xan looked a bit too weak. Could use a buff defensively somehow.
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Unread 16 Oct 2013, 16:30   #3
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

What I had in mind for now was to increase Vsharrak's armour by ~30 a/c, would that be sufficient, or do you think they need something else than efficiency boosts?

e: PK could also use an increase as otherwise it just gets blown to shreds next to Ter/Etd Bs

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Unread 16 Oct 2013, 17:25   #4
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Xan fi can really only attack terran planets. Previously anytime xan fi has targetted into fi it leads to problems



Edit: anyone else sick of the whole FR target FI game of chicken? Can we make a new gimmick?
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Last edited by Papadoc; 16 Oct 2013 at 17:37.
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Unread 16 Oct 2013, 17:28   #5
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Are you serious?? These are Rd 50 stats that were tweaked (hardly) for rd 52 and now you wanna make some more tweaks for rd54.....

Why do the community want to play same stats 3 out of 5 rounds?? These aren't even a very good set...

WHAT A JOKE!!!
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Unread 16 Oct 2013, 17:48   #6
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Constantly using a different stats only gives the illusion of change.


The main issue with the r52 stats that I see is that there's little to no choice for the races. Once you've picked a roiding fleet, you've got no choice in what other ships to build. This is largely because there are so few. Go Ter De, get Wyvern and Centaur for free. Cat Co? Locust and Roach. Etd Fr? Dealer and Guardian.

You could try experimenting with adding some more off-class ships for all the races.

I haven't looked at them for long, but these are my first thoughts:
Ter: Fi -> Fi (alternative for Centaur), Cr -> De (with Harpies, alternative for Wyvern)
Cat: Fi -> Fr (with Co, alternative for Roach), Fr -> Cr (with Cr, alternative for Locust)
Xan: Bs -> De/Cr (with Fi and Bolt Thrower, alternative for Ghost/Arrowhead)
Zik: Fr -> Cr (alternative for Pirate, kill, Sair to steal), Fr -> Fi (alternative for Inforza, steal, enables stolen fleet, remove Clipper T1)
Etd: Fi -> Co (alternative for Dealer, better defense), Cr -> Bs (with Bs, alternative for Investor)


Comments on your changes: name changes make no sense. They'll just confuse everyone. I agree the Ranger is problematic, but nerfing it without compensating elsewhere is not the way to go. Merchant change I'd need to see a calc on. Reduced armor might make it weaker against Rangers. Intentional?
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Unread 16 Oct 2013, 18:14   #7
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

My thoughts on your etd balancing: basically same GIANT hole against co. weaker anti de/fr def and able to afford less fr, which will affect both your attackfleets (provided you do fr and fake fr with fi). I dont buy your counterattack and ingal argument.

Ranger was amazing, but you kinda seem to have forgotten that etd also had the biggest defensive holes. Also there's no fr teamup and large portions of etds is not possible for an alliance and you simply cannot defend. The reason it was as you say "the big bad wolf" was pretty much apprime trolling with it.
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Unread 16 Oct 2013, 19:25   #8
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Thanks Mz, those are exactly the type of suggestions I'm looking for, and I'm more than willing to add ships that add variety.

As for Etd getting a simple nerf: I believe they were slightly on the stronger side, considering 15% of the universe were Etd while 20% was t100, and 4 of the top10 were Etd. Granted, this could also be due to the politics of the round - the #1 and #3 were both in FaNG which if I recall correctly played for planet ranks rather than alliance.
I'll look into giving them back some defensive capability - possibly through ship additions.
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Unread 16 Oct 2013, 23:56   #9
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

vsharrk (fi class) only targets co and arrowhead(co class) targets t2 and remove thief fi is a start
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Unread 17 Oct 2013, 14:41   #10
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I think r50 stats were far better than rd52.
I dont see why you would want to rerun any of those stats as they are both horrible for alliance play imho
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Unread 20 Oct 2013, 14:30   #11
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I'll make some suggestions to the beta stats as they stand.

Change XAN Fireblade init to 5
Change TER Wyvern Init to 6
Change XAN Ghost Init to 7
Change ZIK Pirate Init to 20
Change ZIK Marauder Init to 6
Change ZIK Rogue Init to 19
Change ETD Dealer To Steal Init 20 and T2 BS.

Remove XAN Vsharrak T2 Fi
Remove ETD Thief outright.
Remove XAN iamerror outright.

Add arrowhead T2 Fi and increase armour/damage

I'll have a look at emp when Patrikc gets round to it.
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Unread 20 Oct 2013, 15:45   #12
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

This would make xan a Excellent target for fi, de(until hulls 3 which is forver), fr, cr and bs. And most likely pretty awful vs co since xan is supposed to have bad emp resistance.
This do however make etd more useful since hulls 3 will lol over pretty much all except investor. And rangers ingal will be crucial to stop fi attacks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
I'll make some suggestions to the beta stats as they stand.

Change XAN Fireblade init to 5
Change TER Wyvern Init to 6
Change XAN Ghost Init to 7
Change ZIK Pirate Init to 20
Change ZIK Marauder Init to 6
Change ZIK Rogue Init to 19
Change ETD Dealer To Steal Init 20 and T2 BS.

Remove XAN Vsharrak T2 Fi
Remove ETD Thief outright.
Remove XAN iamerror outright.

Add arrowhead T2 Fi and increase armour/damage

I'll have a look at emp when Patrikc gets round to it.
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Unread 20 Oct 2013, 15:55   #13
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Lets just hope they choose to go away from the r52 statset
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Unread 20 Oct 2013, 16:10   #14
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
This would make xan a Excellent target for fi, de(until hulls 3 which is forver), fr, cr and bs. And most likely pretty awful vs co since xan is supposed to have bad emp resistance.
This do however make etd more useful since hulls 3 will lol over pretty much all except investor. And rangers ingal will be crucial to stop fi attacks.
My suggestions would make the attacks more offensive, although there isn't any 0 loss def, as pat's stats remain there are ally def ships that are a 1 fleet stoppers (assuming it isn't a xp crashing landing)
As most folk tend to like landing for roids with a 0 shiploss landing (not counting ship steals etc.)

Xan Fi attack on Xan fi defense is a bad idea
I remember alot of xan crashers in r34 just taking the chance for a land.
( http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=34 )

The Emp resistances/gun or emp effiencies haven't been done yet.
I presume the spider will fire before the beetle will remain.

I have also taking into consideration of faking attacks like faking xan fi as de etc.

My suggestions have also presuming that there will be a change to the gal set up as there are a good few 1 fleet stoppers that are a higher class.
For example Ingal ETD Rangers (frig class anti fi) v a Xan fi fleet
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Unread 20 Oct 2013, 16:19   #15
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Why is xan fi attack on xan bad? Attacker fire first def dies. Its not about taking a chance you assume its real and kill it anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
My suggestions would make the attacks more offensive, although there isn't any 0 loss def, as pat's stats remain there are ally def ships that are a 1 fleet stoppers (assuming it isn't a xp crashing landing)
As most folk tend to like landing for roids with a 0 shiploss landing (not counting ship steals etc.)

Xan Fi attack on Xan fi defense is a bad idea
I remember alot of xan crashers in r34 just taking the chance for a land.
( http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=34 )

The Emp resistances/gun or emp effiencies haven't been done yet.
I presume the spider will fire before the beetle will remain.

I have also taking into consideration of faking attacks like faking xan fi as de etc.

My suggestions have also presuming that there will be a change to the gal set up as there are a good few 1 fleet stoppers that are a higher class.
For example Ingal ETD Rangers (frig class anti fi) v a Xan fi fleet
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Unread 20 Oct 2013, 16:29   #16
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
Why is xan fi attack on xan bad? Attacker fire first def dies. Its not about taking a chance you assume its real and kill it anyway.
The example I gave for r34 was an example of how it was bad and had quite a few round ending crashes

R34 xan fi ship had...
Phantom Fighter Fi - - Cloak 5

as soon as it got the same ship in defense the attacker would be gambling in landing the attack if there was losses.

My suggested change wouldn't make xan fi on xan bad.
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Unread 21 Oct 2013, 08:04   #17
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Xan fi hitting xan fi basically makes xan fi unplayable.

Terr/xan de was ridiculously op.

Etd fr was just irritating and served no real use to alliance play, it just became one of those fleets that drained def ships on a raid and got etd pwned on retals causing alliance HCs to declare wad when they lost 1 wave of incs (hi plaguu)

These stats were a fun change in rd50 from what had been numerous rounds of boring knock off and overly defensive stats. In rd52 it was nice to have a second chance to play them although appoco's tweaks kinda ruined them from their original greatness. We don't need to play them again in rd54, we have been here and done this. If we were to get to a point where stats were always the same and other things changed to make the game different round on round then sorry but this is not the set to use. Stop now with tweaking these and get another set. There have been plenty in the last 10 rounds that just needed a bit if work to be playable. Use them instead or being lazy with this set
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Unread 21 Oct 2013, 11:11   #18
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
Attacker fire first def dies.
Wrong. Both sides fire at the same time. For Xan especially, with low armor and high damage, this inevitably becomes a massacre, turning Xan-on-Xan fights into a game of chicken. I intentionally only gave the Vsharrak a T2 on itself in round 50.
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Unread 21 Oct 2013, 11:41   #19
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Im talking about after the changes paisley suggested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Wrong. Both sides fire at the same time. For Xan especially, with low armor and high damage, this inevitably becomes a massacre, turning Xan-on-Xan fights into a game of chicken. I intentionally only gave the Vsharrak a T2 on itself in round 50.
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Unread 21 Oct 2013, 12:31   #20
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

You appear to be arguing with Paisley's reasoning for making the Vsharrak change while already including the Vsharrak change. I'm not sure how that's useful. Of course there's no problem with Vsharrak vs. Vsharrak fights when Vsharrak don't fire at themselves. What's your point?


P.S. Please quote correctly.
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Unread 21 Oct 2013, 12:42   #21
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Im saying WITH the changes he suggest xan will be weak to every single class, Including FI.

Without the changes ofc xan fi attack on xan is bad. But atleast they have a viable option with teamin up with terran with de. So if we wanna make them weak against fi atleast dont **** them against crbs with the ghost change.

Quote:
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You appear to be arguing with Paisley's reasoning for making the Vsharrak change while already including the Vsharrak change. I'm not sure how that's useful. Of course there's no problem with Vsharrak vs. Vsharrak fights when Vsharrak don't fire at themselves. What's your point?


P.S. Please quote correctly.
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Unread 21 Oct 2013, 23:51   #22
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

(tentative) update:

Targeting efficiencies have been changed to 100%/50%/25% (from 100%/60%/30%)
Structure killers now die upon use - cost per structure blown up is to be determined. Currently thinking of around 1k value in SKs per Construction.
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 00:05   #23
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

no worries Pat take your time with the stats
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 00:21   #24
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I'm aiming to have the biggest changes done tonight (morning for EU), and have stats finalized on my end before the current round ends.

Bedtime edit: I'm going around in circles so I'm heading to bed. Feel free to think about the current iteration, but please be aware these are not final. I'm not yet satisfied with current targeting and am most likely going to add a ship to Zik (Fr->Cr), I just need a good night's rest before I go at it again.

We at Planetarion Ship Statistics thank you for your patience!

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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 09:55   #25
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Structure killers now die upon use - cost per structure blown up is to be determined. Currently thinking of around 1k value in SKs per Construction.
Good thinking. A way of making people think before using SKs.
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 10:19   #26
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
Good thinking. A way of making people think before using SKs.
And this is good because...?
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 12:44   #27
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I think SKs should be an entirely different class: Drone (DR).
Anti SKs should be new constructions.
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 12:58   #28
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I think everyone should type their forum posts with their noses.

Oh, isn't this the "random assertions without supporting arguments" thread?
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 13:42   #29
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I quite like the updated stats especially the ETD Defender (0 loss but emp defship) not sure about the CAT widow being init 10 and emp but im sure Pat was knackered and overlooked this.

The ETD dealer ship is likely been made obsolete by the ETD Interceptor.
I feel the XAN Fireblade emp reistance is a bit too high.
The ETD Guardian needs more emp kick.
I presume the CAT beetle's emp resistance is high by design?
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 14:52   #30
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Widow's Initiative was a carry-over from it being Locust, yes - it is now 1, set to fire before the Guardian. The Guardian will have its ERes boosted so that it will fire later but be very resistant, similar to the Beetle. It also needs increased guns to compensate for the cost increase I did initially.

Etd's Ranger set back to Cloaked, now that there is a Fi able to help Xan fight/attack it.

Xan Fireblade has a high ERes for its cost, yes, but if you look closer it is actually the lowest of all De, meaning it'll still be frozen most. I raised its cost a bit, while still keeping it at the bottom of the Destroyer ERes table.
On a related note, I changed Xan's Arrowhead to init 8 while increasing the Peacekeeper's efficiencies and giving it t2 Cr. I also intend to give Xan 5 more base RP/tick to make it more accessible. This means Xan is more open to De at first, but can choose to go for the stronger option in the Peacekeeper.

The one thing I don't like currently is the fact that Etd can easily spam 4 ships (after possibly getting Fi pods) and be fairly good at stopping anything. The tradeoff for this of course is that 4 out of 6 classes will be EMP only, but unlike Cath who need Siege Hulls for it, it would be in only 2 classes rather than 3. My preferred option right now is removing the Interceptor, making Etd quite susceptible to Co.

The other thing I'm worried about is how effective a Cath/Xan/Etd Fi-De alliance would be.

I'll be posting a full list of post initial changes shortly.
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 16:22   #31
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Just from a quick glance at the stats;

DE looks like the best combo imo, I'd probably go Ter and focus on DE with these stats.

Overall it seems every race is playable with obvious weaknesses and strengths.
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 18:58   #32
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
And this is good because...?
See the many other threads on SKs and their (mis)uses.

Or are you asking why it's good to make people think?
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Unread 22 Oct 2013, 22:15   #33
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

The following changes have been made:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primary Changes
Harpy now only targets Fr, cost increased, A/C +6 D/C -15
Phoenix added, Co -> Co
Gryphon T1 (Cr) changed to Bs
Drake increased ERes (+1), A/C reduced (-11)
Wyvern ERes increased (+1)
Dragon decreased cost, ERes unchanged (stronger vs EMP)

Viper changed Init 2 -> 1
Beetle increased ERes (+5)
Locust now Fr -> Cr, Normal init 10
Widow added, De -> Bs EMP init 3, high ERes
Roach decreased A/C (-28), increased cost, ERes fixed
Tarantula increased A/C (+25), ERes fixed
Scorpion cost increased

Phantom T2 (Fi) removed
Vsharrak added, Co -> Fi
Bomber init 7 -> 6, decreased a/c (-23)
Fireblade increased A/C (+24), cost increased, ERes increased (+4)
Ghost ERes increased (+4)
Peacekeeper T2 added (Cr), increased A/C (+28), increased D/C (+27)

Corsair increased A/C (+67), decreased D/C (-44)
Buccaneer added, Fr -> Cr steal, init 19 (to be added by Appoco)

Defender added, Fi -> Fr/De EMP
Interceptor changed T1 (Fr) to Co
Ranger returned cloak, increased ERes (+8), reduced Metal cost by 5
Dealer increased D/C (+50), decreased A/C (-34)
Note that "cost increased/decreased" means all related stats were also changed, unless noted otherwise.

Things to do:

- Play around with Bcalcs and tweak efficiencies.
- Determine stats of SKs (and how many you lose per structure destroyed)
- Doublecheck EMP interaction
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 07:35   #34
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I have managed a quick glance at these changes and tbh the one thing that jumps out at me is this:

In rd 52 and rd 50 the DE teamup was the best team up, by a mile. The only issue this teamup had was that it struggled to defend against itself and Rangers. Your change to the inting of Ranger/Vsharrak has basically made Ranger unplayable now, when it outinted all you could justified allowing someone in your alliance to play it. Now there is nothing in ETD that will make someone pick them.

Secondly your Peacekeeper change is intresting. For a well organised galaxy (of which there arent many nowadays) this could be the INGAL eta ship alongside the Wyvern that can contain the DE teamup.

Basically these stats now have a feel that a decent galaxy that is predominatly Xan/Ter and an alliance that is 60% Xan/30% Ter will win and dominate the round.
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 09:35   #35
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I have managed a quick glance at these changes and tbh the one thing that jumps out at me is this:

In rd 52 and rd 50 the DE teamup was the best team up, by a mile. The only issue this teamup had was that it struggled to defend against itself and Rangers. Your change to the inting of Ranger/Vsharrak has basically made Ranger unplayable now, when it outinted all you could justified allowing someone in your alliance to play it. Now there is nothing in ETD that will make someone pick them.

Secondly your Peacekeeper change is intresting. For a well organised galaxy (of which there arent many nowadays) this could be the INGAL eta ship alongside the Wyvern that can contain the DE teamup.

Basically these stats now have a feel that a decent galaxy that is predominatly Xan/Ter and an alliance that is 60% Xan/30% Ter will win and dominate the round.

Agree with ranger being unplayable with the defender now in the stats.
Swapping targetting on it might help abit, aswell as giving the ranger some godlike e/r
Also Id like to see cost changes so that xan + ter de combo gets less good vs emp, basicly since they have such a big difference you need hella much emp to freeze all the terran in a teamup.
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 12:14   #36
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Well, the addition of the Defender weakens DE fleets too, not just FR. Gonna be some juicy defplanets just spamming Defenders.
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 18:17   #37
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Hmmm curious... you said you'd consider etd defensive buffs and gave them that indeed, too bad it basically finishes off their fr attack fleets as well. Maybe it's time to scrap etd and build them up from the ground again?^^
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 21:47   #38
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I'll consider swapping the Defender's targeting (it was De/Fr initially!), as well as making the Ranger more expensive than the Investor, which should make it more rewarding to attack with full Fr fleet as they'd flak for Rangers.

I also see your point on De teamups, Plaguuu, and will probably increase Xan De's cost by 50-100%.

Interestingly enough you're claiming Etd to be unplayable due to the addition of an Etd ship...
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 23:03   #39
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
I'll consider swapping the Defender's targeting (it was De/Fr initially!), as well as making the Ranger more expensive than the Investor, which should make it more rewarding to attack with full Fr fleet as they'd flak for Rangers.

I also see your point on De teamups, Plaguuu, and will probably increase Xan De's cost by 50-100%.

Interestingly enough you're claiming Etd to be unplayable due to the addition of an Etd ship...
As an attacking race it's pretty unplayable. It will be a good defwhore planet. I dunno what you have done to the ranger but it's ****ing crap now xan fi is a massively playable. Definatly gonna be a xan heavy round
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 23:13   #40
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

From what I remember of rd 50 and 52 the following applies:

Fi was unplayable - you have fixed that but now it's overly playable IMO

Co just didn't hold water after tick 550. Vikings had this problem in rd 50 and it was barely used in rd 52.

Fr was insanely good because it murdered everything and the investor was hardcore. You seem to have killed the rangers effectiveness somehow now which has ruined fr.

De was the best teamup in both rounds and nothing has changed. Terran pegs are just ridiculous.

Cr was ok but ghosts/tycoons cloaked hitting it t1 made it hard to land with.

Bs had the same issue as cr with ghosts cos they outing it and are cloaked.

In conclusion again de will boss all and now it's untroubled by etd fr it can't see much past a massively heavy xan round with terran supports. Big alliance will go de or co and small ones will go xan fi.
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 23:24   #41
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I haven't done anything to the Ranger, in fact, it is 1% more efficient than in r52 (reduced its costs by 2/2/2 for aesthetics).
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 23:28   #42
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Have you done stuff to things that target it?? The pulsar holds up really well against which it didn't in the last 2 rounds.
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Unread 23 Oct 2013, 23:31   #43
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Other than add the Defender, which obviously impacts it, no. Pulsar/Ranger interaction is almost exactly the same as before.
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Unread 24 Oct 2013, 01:14   #44
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

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Other than add the Defender, which obviously impacts it, no. Pulsar/Ranger interaction is almost exactly the same as before.
I find it very strange then. In previous round Rangers could land on Xan fi. In these stats they cant. Maybe cos im looking at Xan fi as an attacking option now which will give it more ships. But its weird, Rangers pwned all now they struggle to land anywhere
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Unread 25 Oct 2013, 20:41   #45
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I would like to see the CAT Roach given an extra gun (close as you can get it to a 10% increase) and the ETD Defender switched back to t1 DE and T2 Frig... only real choice imo at the momment is going DE or CO for an alliance strat.
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Unread 26 Oct 2013, 21:33   #46
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

I don't really see any glaring holes in these stats tbh. Seems like every race is playable. Obviously some fleets look stronger than other, but that's always the case.
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Unread 27 Oct 2013, 15:53   #47
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

When does the Beta testing begins?
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Unread 28 Oct 2013, 07:00   #48
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

More than likely if these stats remain where they are people that play zik will sadly get disappointed. The same happened in round 50 to me and with the added ships at fi/co class it will be worse. Some zik will land an attk or def at some point and steal a bunch of useless shit ships and make their fleet 10x worse. in r50 someone crashed 1mil xan fi on me and i couldnt do shit with them and had no more anti co that was worth a damn.
Stealing Xan fi/co is worthless to zik
Stealing harp/nix worthless
Stealing Thieves worthless
Stealing any zik ships is obv worthless.
Stealing spiders worthless
Stealing Viper/Beet WORTH!

So if you go zik....you better hope some idiot doesnt crash on your cutlass unless they are cath.

As far as Zik CR goes... it is ok... but you cant really ever attk without a cath cr partner. Pirates free stealing you murders ur attk potential
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Unread 28 Oct 2013, 10:57   #49
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

Yeah, welcome to ZIk.
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"And THEN," Mary was yelling and stomping up and down, "I'm going to take all the tiny little pieces of your body left over from the explosions and I'm going to put them in a bag and then I will throw it in the ocean so SHARKS will eat them! And then do you know what I'll be doing?" he screamed. "I... will... be... LAUGHING." He giggled. "AT YOU!" he added.
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Unread 28 Oct 2013, 17:31   #50
isildurx
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Re: R54 stat discussion: revised Round 52 stats

As long as one steals inside the same metaclass it's not the end of the world. Ziks, thankfully, aren't going to be stealing frde.
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