User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Suggestions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 8 Aug 2007, 15:03   #1
Aedolaws
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 158
Aedolaws is on a distinguished road
Fleet commanders

Commanders that gain XP , which can be traded for rank and traits.

I am sure the idea has been discussed, I am not familiar with any arguments pro or con. So... why not?

Last edited by Aedolaws; 1 Sep 2007 at 03:47.
Aedolaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Aug 2007, 15:25   #2
Talin
Mildly Amused
 
Talin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Talin will become famous soon enoughTalin will become famous soon enough
Re: Fleet commanders

How would they benefit from XP (I assume it's not the same XP as the one that's already in the game)?

And what would the traits be like?
__________________
R4-R9.5 ETY | ViruS | Retalion | Other...
Inactive R13 and a couple of later rounds.
Talin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Aug 2007, 17:35   #3
Aedolaws
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 158
Aedolaws is on a distinguished road
Re: Fleet commanders

Well, you all saw my original post, only a couple of sentences, I was trying to avoid the long post... forgive me!

I have heard lots of people complaining about XP. I have been an XP player myself for years, first Xan then Cat. I'll be honest, I am not entirely happy with XP's current status. Maybe is time to revolutionize the XP concept.

For example, instead the player itself getting an XP score, these commander(s) will be the one(s) accruing the XP (and the player's score may/would get a corresponding bump up in score [old style]).

Maybe each player should starts with 1 commander (for equality's sake) with the lowest rank and 0 XP, who accrues XP and an the round progresses, players may "upgrade it"; i.e. players can trade the commander;s XP for rank and traits, for example:

for starters: (and just to give a ramdom Xp amount, lets say each would cost 5k XP and u can only have one of each trait)

travelling-time focused traits: -1 in-gal def, -1 in-cluster def, -1 universe defense, -1 in-cluster attack, -1 universe attack

battle focused traits: -1 init, +1 armour, +1 guns, etc

miscellaneus: (1) a "trickster" (mess up a % of FA readings; the more XP the more altered the scan)
(2) a "Base Defender" something like +1 init, +1 armour, +1 guns
(3) an "alliance hero" -1 alliance def travelling time

Other ideas:

1) XP may also be traded for rank for the Commander (e.g., captains, coronels, marshalls, etc), the higher the rank, the bigger the fleet the commander can actually command. If a poor commander is assigned to a large fleet (value wise) which he cannot handle (each rank can handle X amount of value fleet) then none of the traits apply.
2) compound positive traits with negative ones, etc...
3) The concept can evolve, and we could include goverments that allow multiple commanders and some that allow none
4) a cov op to kill or at the very least incapacitate commanders (for fiction's sake: make sick, put him in the hospital) for one night,
5) a scan to figure out commander traits, etc...
6) commanders die if the entire fleet is wiped out
7) A new commander is automatically recruited for replacement if the planet's commander is killed in battle
8) maybe later on, as the concept evolves, people can fire and hire commanders to and from a universe pool (sort of like the universal market)
9) Minister's commanders get automatic trait(s), whatever they might be
10) maybe even introduce Alliance Commanders, whose traits will spread to any fleets from alliance targeting the same galaxy
11) The traits list may not be all inclusive from tick 0, but may grow larger as the round progresses parallelling or even dependent on the techs and buildings that are researched & built and as the fleet size grows larger.
12) Rank the top 100 commanders in the universe.

Perhaps such concept could redefine the purpose for having XP - beyond XP whoring for score ranking (e.g., players would have an incentive to work for XP since it may substantially contribute to their strategy beyond mere score ranking; however, it will create an incentive for XP whores to trade in some of their hard gained XP for the sake of better commanders, and thus balance out the XP to Score gaps in the universe)

It is a rich concept, which can be made simpler to start with and evolve as we get used to it. Again, this concept will have to be slowly and painfully tuned, as will bcalcs...

I am sure there are tons of people outthere with many valid arguments against such an idea, the main one being obviously much added complexity to battle outcome prediction. But maybe there are a few players who would like to at least experiment with the concept... which by the way I am drawing from Hearts of Iron.

The main problems I foresee are

(1) First, how to figure the XP v. Value problem for XP gain purposes, I will keep thinking about this.
(2) Secondly, maybe there is heavy uncertainty in battle calculations if such are done without the additional Commander's Scan. SPECIALLY with multi-fleets on both sides. But, as long as the info for the commanders in factored in, there should be no problem predicting outcome. And perhaps, we could make it, that only the Highest commanders on each side actually "commands"... that way we simplify the calculations... it would be all a matter of sorintg and noticing the commander in chief and adding his traits to the bcalc, all other commanders' present would not contribute any "battle traits" (I say battle traits cuz timetravelling-traits would have been presumably used by then or not used yet if they only apply to travel back to base [e.g., -1 ETA, or -4 ETA back to base)

Finally, I know PA is a game about math and politics. And I also know some of the best things outthere are the simplest things. This doesn't change the fact that (A) we can introduce this concept very limited at the beggining, give people the choice to choose 1 trait to start with and thereafter make it very costly to gain greater rank AND almost prohibitive to trade Xp for a second or third trait.

Maybe PA is ready for such a concept.

Just an idea, I expect heavy criticism

Last edited by Aedolaws; 1 Sep 2007 at 03:48.
Aedolaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Aug 2007, 23:42   #4
KoLoTH
Texan
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 11
KoLoTH will become famous soon enoughKoLoTH will become famous soon enough
Re: Fleet commanders

The basic concept is interesting. It would be neat to see it implemented in a beta.. Just doubt appoco & crew would want to be assed into writing up the code.. lol

but cheers for having a good imagination!
__________________
KoLoTH


r3: Fury (Member)
r4: Fury (Member)
r5-21: University student
r22: Orbit (DC)
r23: Obrit (DC)



"LOL, @ our ugly inbred illegitimate french half-cousin Myth"...
KoLoTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Aug 2007, 16:26   #5
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Fleet commanders

Unfortunately I have to agree with Koloth, the idea has a lot of merit, and especially with a passport system that would allow you to take your fleet commanders from one round to the next this idea could be very cool. But given the current state of affairs with PA, it ain't happening in the foreseeable future.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Aug 2007, 20:40   #6
Bedda0815
jerk
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 57
Bedda0815 is on a distinguished road
Re: Fleet commanders

Well the idea is great, alot can be done with that. Unfortunelatly this would increase the difficulty of multi fleet battles, as each fleet will have it's own commander which it's own traits. This can make it next to impossible to predict the outcome of a battle within a reasonable time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Unfortunately I have to agree with Koloth, the idea has a lot of merit, and especially with a passport system that would allow you to take your fleet commanders from one round to the next this idea could be very cool. But given the current state of affairs with PA, it ain't happening in the foreseeable future.
Take the commander from 1 round to the next? This commander will keep his traits?
That's against the concept of a new round. Everything is reset. everyone starts new from the scratch. Just imagine if someone has kept his commander for 4 or 5 rounds. Now let this player battle a new one.
The new guy won't stand a chance if his fleet isn't much more bigger.
This would certainy exclude newcommers from playing pa.
Bedda0815 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Aug 2007, 22:39   #7
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Fleet commanders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bedda0815
Take the commander from 1 round to the next? This commander will keep his traits?
That's against the concept of a new round. Everything is reset. everyone starts new from the scratch. Just imagine if someone has kept his commander for 4 or 5 rounds. Now let this player battle a new one.
The new guy won't stand a chance if his fleet isn't much more bigger.
This would certainy exclude newcommers from playing pa.
Not necessarily at all. The way it would work is that each level the commander increases in rank it takes exponentially longer for him to get to the next level, in addition if each command is race specific, it would take a long time to get good commanders in different races. In addition to help new players out they would get a lot more XP for fighting a good commander rather then a bad one. XP would also then have to be based on relative fleet values as well, to keep newbies from abusing the system. In addition if each player had to designate a 'flagship' in each battle, and if that flagship was destroyed there would be a chance the fleet commander would be killed it would make for an interesting twist (if the attack fleet was completely destroyed fleet commanders would be lost).

Also if fleet commanders were made to cost resources to maintain you could make it graded based on the FCs rank. So better ones cost more, and assumedly players could activate/deactivate them as they will. In addition you could make it so fleet commanders could only have certain traits, and as they got XP each player could customize his fleet commanders for certain skills. I think there would be a lot of room for modifications that would add to PA in an interesting way.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Aug 2007, 23:12   #8
Kenny
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Fleet commanders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Not necessarily at all.
Erm, yes necessarily. Is commander with existing skills/xp from previous round going to be better than commander from new round? Yes. You can make it as hard as you like for a 'commander' to progress... but once he's progressed at all - erm, there's the difference right away. I mean for goodness sake - what would be the point of carrying on 'commanders' from round to round if not to CREATE AN ADVANTAGE.

This idea does have merits, sure - but not to carry something over round from round. That IS defeating the purpose of a reset, no matter HOW you look at it.

And selecting 'a flagship' is redundant as you don't have a ship-by-ship control to begin with. And the way the game works you can't just say 'Oh, if they're all destroyed then the flag ship would be destroyed, if not he lives'. This is a game of statistics and math, not personalization of ships. You can't paint them, name them, or designate a flagship that only gets destroyed if everyone else does. It's virtually a mathematical impossibility to guarantee that if every fleet that got attacked and made it away with just 1 ship, that that ship would be the flagship. That's just womanlogic.

IF there was a 'flagship' then to keep it Planetarion-based and not Wishfullthinkingarion-based there'd have to be some kind of 'random' factor as to whether the flagship was destroyed in battle. And, going by the nature of this suggestion, this would then be made entirely redundant (to re-use the term).

The traits you mentioned are also considerably naive. Your suggestions for "battle focused traits" show a clear lack of understanding of the way statistics work, and how they 'balance out'.

And, reading further into your longer post Aedolaws, I really hope this is not a serious thread.
"4) a cov op to kill or at the very least incapacitate commanders (for fiction's sake: make sick, put him in the hospital) for one night"

To be honest, after this I really can't take anything else you've said seriously, so refuse to comment further.
  Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Aug 2007, 23:46   #9
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Fleet commanders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
Erm, yes necessarily....
The traits you mentioned are also considerably naive. Your suggestions for "battle focused traits" show a clear lack of understanding of the way statistics work, and how they 'balance out'.
Well what this really shows is that I don't like long posts and so don't flesh out ideas completely because I for one hate reading long posts. In terms of a 'flagship' I would assign it the same way a golden roid is assigned now. So from the game's perspective lets hard code it so that it always assigns to the FC to the largest class of ship in the fleet and then picks one ship in that class and assigns it the 'FC' tag. When a battle occurs and x% of that class are destroyed there should be an x% of the FC also being killed, the game engine would simply roll a die and if the number falls within x then the FC is killed, if not he returns home. This is basically the same way the golden roid works, so I don't see how it would be outside the current game capabilities.

As for "battle focused traits" I didn't want to put down specifics, but things like a 5% increase in armour, 5% EMP efficiency increase, etc would be they types of increases a top level FC would give. I don't see what is unreasonable about this type of trait at least in theory.

In terms of keeping FCs from one round to the next. Contrary to your statement this does not entirely defeat the purpose of a reset, as everyone still starts at 0 score/roids/ships and if good FCs are expensive to maintain they don't become a factor until later in the round. There are always ways to balance things out and to simply reject any idea, whether it turns out to be a good idea or not, without giving it full consideration is foolishness.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 09:48   #10
RuBBeR
speCTacular
 
RuBBeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: H0lland
Posts: 126
RuBBeR has a spectacular aura aboutRuBBeR has a spectacular aura aboutRuBBeR has a spectacular aura about
Re: Fleet commanders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Well what this really shows is that I don't like long posts and so don't flesh out ideas completely because I for one hate reading long posts. In terms of a 'flagship' I would assign it the same way a golden roid is assigned now. So from the game's perspective lets hard code it so that it always assigns to the FC to the largest class of ship in the fleet and then picks one ship in that class and assigns it the 'FC' tag. When a battle occurs and x% of that class are destroyed there should be an x% of the FC also being killed, the game engine would simply roll a die and if the number falls within x then the FC is killed, if not he returns home. This is basically the same way the golden roid works, so I don't see how it would be outside the current game capabilities.

As for "battle focused traits" I didn't want to put down specifics, but things like a 5% increase in armour, 5% EMP efficiency increase, etc would be they types of increases a top level FC would give. I don't see what is unreasonable about this type of trait at least in theory.

In terms of keeping FCs from one round to the next. Contrary to your statement this does not entirely defeat the purpose of a reset, as everyone still starts at 0 score/roids/ships and if good FCs are expensive to maintain they don't become a factor until later in the round. There are always ways to balance things out and to simply reject any idea, whether it turns out to be a good idea or not, without giving it full consideration is foolishness.

By implementing this system I think you will be giving caths a even harder time with even more waves incoming. Not only will empires who attack cath have 0% ship loss guarantee they will also have 0% chance of losing their commander.
__________________
R22 t/m 26 ToF
R27 t/m 28 CT
R29 CT BC
R30 BREAK

RuBBeR has a speCTacular aura about
RuBBeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 10:07   #11
Veil05
Heresy
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 814
Veil05 has much to be proud ofVeil05 has much to be proud ofVeil05 has much to be proud ofVeil05 has much to be proud ofVeil05 has much to be proud ofVeil05 has much to be proud ofVeil05 has much to be proud ofVeil05 has much to be proud ofVeil05 has much to be proud of
Re: Fleet commanders

This idea is great, and im sure as soon as they manage to finish a simple portal we should get this in full swing
__________________
PEACE.
Veil05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 10:46   #12
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,990
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Fleet commanders

In fact, this is one of the more interesting ideas of lately. Why? It provides an alternative use for the XP. It allows the XP to gain a "use" and an attraction to gather XP besides score - in fact, with refining the idea you could totally forget about XP contributing to score at all. What you would need, though, is to find a balance in it all. And definately, allowing "commanders" continue from round to another is most obviously a bad choice as it leaves new players behind the existing ones, and generally breaks the scheme where a round gets reset and everyone starts over again. As the commanders would bring "benefit", it's obvious that allowing the benefit to stockpile exponentially over rounds is a bit of a dead end.

What comes to the idea itself, as Kenny mentioned, the poster probably has little clue about how the fine tuning should be implemented, but that doesn't destroy the idea itself, necessarily. Commanders wouldn't require anything to be implemented into the combat engine specifically, so it wouldn't necessarily directly involve balance issues there (as what comes to adding new "ship types"). Here's a few "more realistic" options for a "commander".

Scales up as you pay more XP.

Perhaps one that increases salvage gains by 2, 4, 6, 8, 10%.
Perhaps one that increases the distortion in unit scans by 3, 6, 9, 12, 15%.
One that increases maximum asteroid cap by 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5%.

These are technically "outside" the combat core.

Inside the combat core, you could implement minor extras. Obviously, altering initiative is way too heavy, but increasing armor by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5% isn't that massive. Or maybe a two-bladed sword. Increases damage by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5%, decreases armor by 2, 4, 6, 8, 10%. By giving a variety of different options, you'd make different types of commanders situational. Race specifics. Maybe one that regenerates 2, 4, 6, 8, 10% of ships that die stealing after combat. Or a 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.25% reduction in E/R of the enemy ships.

By limiting the amount of commanders available, and limiting the development, and making it "costly" you'd come down with having to select between one great commander or a few lesser ones. There's restrictions and refining in the idea that need to be done, but overall it sounds like an interesting idea to me.

And I'm usually very critical.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 12:02   #13
bitesize
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 38
bitesize is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Fleet commanders

passport system - carrying advantage from one round to the next, NO.


Tietäjä's comments are very strong. as a former avid HOI player and current avid PA player i can see how PA can borrow strongly from this game dynamic.

but instead of % increases and decrease to dmg and arm, make them absolute (integer numbers to avoid decimal place hell).

to answer the comment about cath flaws - they would need the strongest cov-op commander killers/"make sick"ers and would have to become the games natural cov-oppers. to allow consistant denial of these traits to teh active caths.

i see the character of the commanders following the flavour of the race
eg
terran - strong defensive, weak offensive boosts
etc

the HOI connection would have worked very well when PA battles took place over multiple rounds and these ideas do have merits in todays game

i suggest a simple introduction
terran commander +1 arm
xan +1 Dam
Cath +2 arm
etd +3% emp res
zik + 3%regeneration of lost ships, in other words lose less ships when stealing.

something along those lines in a beta... might be interesting to see. balancing the advantages would be tough, thats why beta intro.
i can see the need for some sort of antidote to or detection of these commanders for the defending planet.

borrowing further from HOI, the commanders start at the lowest rank who can command fleets of small values to still gain the trait... they would have to trade in the xp for a increase in command rank to allow traits to carry forward to bigger fleet values.

my ideas are rubbish and not thought through at all... but the thread is stimulating and i would love to see some embyonic version coming through into the main game.
bitesize is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 12:20   #14
Tietäjä
Good Son
 
Tietäjä's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,990
Tietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better placeTietäjä single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Fleet commanders

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitesize
but instead of % increases and decrease to dmg and arm, make them absolute (integer numbers to avoid decimal place hell).
This is bad. Mechanically, a %increase in armor would need to define as a %decrease in damage suffered - because otherwise it knacks bad with the ships. A low comparative increase (1%) wouldn't be anything for a single phantom. On the other hand, a low absolute increase ,+1 damage, will affect the xandathrii fighter (banshee last round, +25%) a lot more than a +2 increase in armor will the terran destroyer (pegasus last round, +0.85%).

This is the fine-tuning part which involves interaction with the combat system.
Tietäjä is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 15:48   #15
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Fleet commanders

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuBBeR
By implementing this system I think you will be giving caths a even harder time with even more waves incoming. Not only will empires who attack cath have 0% ship loss guarantee they will also have 0% chance of losing their commander.
But this could work both ways, perhaps cath commanders would be able to increase EMP efficiency, or maybe even allow cath ships to do a small amount of damage, or maybe allow caths (and maybe ziks) to capture FCs (if the FC ship is EMPed) which can then be ransomed back to the player. Think creatively, for every negative scenario there can always be a counter with a different type of FC ability.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 16:23   #16
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Fleet commanders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
This is bad. Mechanically, a %increase in armor would need to define as a %decrease in damage suffered - because otherwise it knacks bad with the ships. A low comparative increase (1%) wouldn't be anything for a single phantom. On the other hand, a low absolute increase ,+1 damage, will affect the xandathrii fighter (banshee last round, +25%) a lot more than a +2 increase in armor will the terran destroyer (pegasus last round, +0.85%).
Well perhaps one way around this is to have FCs provide different armor bonuses to different classes. So if FCs are race specific a terran FC might increase armor on BS by 15 CR by 10 and DE by 5 but not effect the armor on FI/CO/FR at all.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 18:42   #17
Bedda0815
jerk
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 57
Bedda0815 is on a distinguished road
Re: Fleet commanders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
Well perhaps one way around this is to have FCs provide different armor bonuses to different classes. So if FCs are race specific a terran FC might increase armor on BS by 15 CR by 10 and DE by 5 but not effect the armor on FI/CO/FR at all.
well if we take the r22 stats a armor increase by 15 will have an higher impact on the "small" wyvern then on the "big" leviatan.
The Wyvern armor would increase by 3,75% and the leviatan armor only by 3,448% (or 8,824% for the behemoth)

When looking at De the difference will be even greater
2,326% for the drake compaired to 2,083% for the demeter

if this fleet commander thing should ever be implemented then i can't think of any way to get around percentages.

To counter the "decimal place hell" as it was called earier we can increase all base numbers.

eg a r22 banshee will cost 25k m 25k c 25k e, will have 3k armor and do 4k damage and roids will produce 250k resources per tick

the only problem i can think of will be the "r3 score incident"
I've no idea how the code looks today, maybe this could generate an aritmetric overflow
Bedda0815 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 19:06   #18
Monroe
Planetarion Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
Monroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud ofMonroe has much to be proud of
Re: Fleet commanders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bedda0815
well if we take the r22 stats a armor increase by 15 will have an higher impact on the "small" wyvern then on the "big" leviatan.
The Wyvern armor would increase by 3,75% and the leviatan armor only by 3,448% (or 8,824% for the behemoth)
Well the obvious solution is to just go more granular. So maybe the bonus is +10 on wyvern, but a larger one of +20 on the leviathan. So rather then making the bonus class wide make it specific to each ship. If FCs are differentiated by race it shouldn't be a problem.
__________________
Romans 10:9-10

#strategy
Monroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 21 Aug 2007, 21:34   #19
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Space Invaders Champion, Alien Invasion Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion, Squid Hunter Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,494
Mzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Fleet commanders

Besides, is 0.3 pp really going to bother anyone?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Sep 2007, 03:15   #20
Aedolaws
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 158
Aedolaws is on a distinguished road
Re: Fleet commanders

Well. The idea received a better reception than I thought.

Let us simplify.

[1] We should not start testing the concept with multiple commanders because it makes the whole thing way more complicated.

[2] I have thought about the XP v. Value formula and concluded that it should remain as it is.

[3] But, with the change that instead of the "player, "a SINGLE" commander accrues the XP.

[4] If the commander is not send to/or gets to fight, THERE WILL BE NO XP GAIN.

[5] The XP accrued by the commander can be traded (A) for greater rank, (B) for a "second trait"

[6] Each paid account begins with 1 commander with "X" fixed XP.

[7] Maybe we should start with 5 traits available to choose from, whatever they might be, one "typically associated with each race."

[8] However, any race can "train" for any of it (althought we may impose a penalty [e.g, extra XP cost] to do so).

[9] A player may choose from one of the traits available at tick 0 (which will require from 1 to X XP) or may choose to postpone the 'training' of the commander.

[10] The player will research and build and more traits will become available; the player also will send the commander to fight and will accrue more XP... result:

[11] Player "trains" the commander

[12] On another newly available and more costly (in terms of XP) doctrine(trait); or

[13] The player will want to choose to increase the rank of the Commander and obtain benefit of the single trait for a bigger fleet.

[14] However, some may opt to keep the score gain from the XP.

[15] 2nd trait and 3rd trait become prohibitely costly to attain, only XP whores will (mostly Ter and Cats I assume, maybe Xans), and then they will trade their XP for it and thus even the XP gap.

[16] I thought about "the single" commander dying. Indeed, it presents a bigger problem I originally foresaw. And I have concluded it should, to start with, never die.

[17] One scan

[18] One cov

[19] OFC, we get to name it

[20] We rank them

Last edited by Aedolaws; 1 Sep 2007 at 03:51.
Aedolaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Sep 2007, 07:20   #21
rop1964
F Crew
 
rop1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sorel, quebec, canada
Posts: 268
rop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nice
Re: Fleet commanders

indeed the fleet commander is a good idea.. in r16 , supremecommander and i have submit a similar idea that was rejected by pa team..

but, to add to Aedolaws post.. i d submit that there could be only 1 commander per ship size (max of 3 commander) 1 for fi/co, one for fr/de, and 1 for cr/bs..

and they cant switch from type to type. meaning a bs fleet commander got no idea how to organize a fighter formation or de fleet.. as he s specialize in bs/cr! and only 1 commander per fleet can supervise an attack fleet. so sending a fi/fr combo would not benefit from 2 commander.. the commander active would be the one for the bigger ships in the fleet.
__________________
They may be big, they may be small, they may be invisible.. but they all fall before me.. lol

[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
rop1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Sep 2007, 12:29   #22
Makhil
Registered User
 
Makhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
Makhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to beholdMakhil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Fleet commanders

A very basic way to implement this idea would be to allocate a Battle Commander to each fleet slot. Remove the 'rename fleet' feature and use it to name the commanders.
Traits could be gained not from XP but from the behaviour of each slot:
- frequent def would gain in armour
- frequent attack would gain in damage
- massive roiding would gain in capping
- massive killing/suicide would gain in dread (population under attack lose efficiency)
- frequent recall would gain in cowardice (lowers any bonus gained previously)
...
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
Makhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Sep 2007, 04:59   #23
rop1964
F Crew
 
rop1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sorel, quebec, canada
Posts: 268
rop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nicerop1964 is just really nice
Re: Fleet commanders

that s a funny way to put skills in makhil :-)

but the idea of the fleet commander is to add a SMALL edge , something good and new that is beneficial to the fleet.

i do love your idea!
__________________
They may be big, they may be small, they may be invisible.. but they all fall before me.. lol

[F-Crew] - You know when you've been [FC]uked
rop1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018