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Unread 24 Feb 2006, 16:11   #1
dexter
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a research/construction queueing system

Maybe there could be a queue system, that would let you queue up the next 2 or 3 constructions/research. This would help all the people who are at work when researches and constructions finish.

What do we think?
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Unread 24 Feb 2006, 16:18   #2
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

personaly i think its a great idea.. i work as a chef, so i have weird hrs, and cant get to a computer very often,

a que system means i might b able to keep to my tik plans a bit better
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Unread 24 Feb 2006, 17:32   #3
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Yeah, this is a great idea, I would no longer have to be around to build every new wave amp, just que a couple up each day and sorted.
Also I believe this has been discussed before, please look around the forum before reposting an old discussion.
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Unread 24 Feb 2006, 22:27   #4
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

I was discussing this today with some friends and think it would be an awesome idea.

Basically, sure activity should be encouraged, but getting up at 4am to start a research shouldn't be a valid stratagy and anything that helps reduce that is in my opinion a good idea.
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Unread 24 Feb 2006, 22:30   #5
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

There should probably be a limit to 1 queued item for each and some (small) price (like 1 tick added cost).
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Unread 25 Feb 2006, 01:11   #6
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Its been discussed before, I forgot the reasons why its good and bad, but springing to mind, shouldn't it be a reward that the most active players get their research done the fastest (by not missing ticks) ?

Anyone can login once a day to queue research and cons up.
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Unread 25 Feb 2006, 01:21   #7
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

the game is not about researching but about attacking.
I would like this idea because of the simple fact i cant access internet at school and therefore would like to que 1 or 2 cons and researches.

I mean just getting up for attacking/defending in the middle of the night is already weird but somehow understandable; but only for some cons?
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Unread 25 Feb 2006, 03:45   #8
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
Its been discussed before, I forgot the reasons why its good and bad, but springing to mind, shouldn't it be a reward that the most active players get their research done the fastest (by not missing ticks) ?

Anyone can login once a day to queue research and cons up.
If this is supposed to be as realistic a scenario based game then there should be the ability to make plans and if you like even programs that your development could follow. Then people who want to play and want a life and those who obsessively play can use their time to do what they prefer to be doing (PA/eat/sleep or PA/eat/sleep/life not in that order perhaps).

It would make those who play seriosuly work harder to find the right targets and strategies to overcome the casual player which for them would be a bigger challenge. Makes the ground more level for everyone.
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Unread 25 Feb 2006, 11:26   #9
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
There should probably be a limit to 1 queued item for each and some (small) price (like 1 tick added cost).
How about making so once you set the next one it can't be changed? Potentially a big downside to balance out the benefit.
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Unread 25 Feb 2006, 11:39   #10
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=189514
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Unread 15 Mar 2006, 18:11   #11
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Smile Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey
How about making so once you set the next one it can't be changed? Potentially a big downside to balance out the benefit.
great idea spacemonkey
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Unread 27 Apr 2006, 13:22   #12
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
There should probably be a limit to 1 queued item for each and some (small) price (like 1 tick added cost).
No extra cost, however a queued construction should immediately take the cost out of your resources.

This badly needs implementing, it is so unfriendly to casual players and people who work and are unable to login to Planetarion at stupid times just to initiate research/constructions.
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Unread 28 Apr 2006, 02:35   #13
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

I wonder, how does one impose an additional tick of expense to items that are free? (namely research )...
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Unread 28 Apr 2006, 17:54   #14
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
I wonder, how does one impose an additional tick of expense to items that are free? (namely research )...
Time penalty: % or set number of ticks added on (I believe this has already been said)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Hero
No extra cost, however a queued construction should immediately take the cost out of your resources.

This badly needs implementing, it is so unfriendly to casual players and people who work and are unable to login to Planetarion at stupid times just to initiate research/constructions.
I work out when my researches end and since I do a 9-5 I pick the researches that end 6/7/8am. Cons on the other hand I miss several ticks a day because they're 10 ticks a piece
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Unread 28 Apr 2006, 18:59   #15
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
There should probably be a limit to 1 queued item for each and some (small) price (like 1 tick added cost).
thats not a bad compromise, maybe it adds 1-3 ticks of research when research is queued since that doesnt cost
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Unread 28 Apr 2006, 19:23   #16
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
There should probably be a limit to 1 queued item for each and some (small) price (like 1 tick added cost).
Excellent idea.

You should be allowed to queue 2 construction and 1 research.

Constructions should be queued at something like 1.25 extra research cost of a normal non-queued construction, e.g. 1.25 of first queued construction, then adding 1.25 to the cost of next construction (1x1.25x1.25).

That means it'd only really be viable to do so untill you reach an odd 75 constructions, after which the extra costs would make people reconsider whether queuing is worth it, and people would have a better chance of balancing their structures, instead of some annoying terran shooting aloof with 147 distorters and 3 factories

Research should be queued at extra added ticks. E.g., it should be worthwhile queuing research(e.g if you really can't make it online to do research, and by not doing so would cost you an odd 10-15 ticks worth of research), but it should also be worthwhile not doing so.
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Unread 28 Apr 2006, 23:54   #17
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

This would be consistent with the (relatively) recent additions of prelaunching and fake attack in terms of how it would cater to less hardcore players.

It's one of those things that the old school, ultra-active among us might dislike but would probably help make the game more accessible to casual players.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 18:24   #18
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

I really agree to this. The winners shouldn't be decided by the amount of time they have.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 18:56   #19
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

How about something more simple?*
you're allowed to select up to say 5 constructions/researches in a queue.
However, (unless you adjust it or something), while the first research will obviously be as normal, the other researches in the queue will be extended - 10% for the first queued one, 20% for the second one, 30% for the third one, 40% for the last one (rounded UP).
constructions should be 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% respectively, again rounded up, to stop Terrans abusing it with production set as #1. we can apply the penalty before race bonuses as well / instead.

So, you'd get something like this:
Code:
Construction #         Construction      Time Left    Total Time  Status       Action
Construction 1          Medium Factory   5               10       (building)   [cancel]
Construction 2          Finance Center   14              14       (queued)     [remove] 
Construction 3          Finance Center   18              18       (queued)     [remove] 
...........
[remove all queued]
where [ ] is a clicky button

So basically, you can queue things up, but it gives you more time each time you queue something up. Alternatively, you can ignore the bottom 4 slots and just use the current one :-)




*after writing it all out, it's not so simple when I try and explain it.

edited: post consistancy in terms of numbers/%s
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Unread 3 May 2006, 20:17   #20
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

that would work for the research queue since no cost is involved

a bit extra cost for constructions maybe
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Unread 3 May 2006, 20:18   #21
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

a 4 tick delay per queued construction is quite a lot?
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Unread 3 May 2006, 21:14   #22
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Why should casual players be punished for using a queue system? The entire point behind it is to make things easier for people who are unable to login at work/school or wherever. Adding such artificial penalties only punishes the people this idea is aimed at - more casual players.

If certain races and engineering priorities are too fast together then perhaps slow them down a bit by reducing the bonuses.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 21:19   #23
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

I'm of the view that while the casual player should be allowed to play and skill should be a large factor in the game, activity shouldn't go unrewarded and gaining a couple of ticks due to being around more often is imo a fair way of doing it.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 21:35   #24
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

how about :
queue system as proposed
Additional research eta modifier which increments up to say -5 ticks for each successive research that completes when the person is logged into the game and they dont use the queue - resetting to 0 when they miss the end of a research, or when they use it.
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Unread 3 May 2006, 22:41   #25
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

More active players get enough advantages by being able to monitor for incoming fleets, usually has a better alliance, more experience, etc.

Must everything have an awkward formula to try and balance it? Adding a free queue system helps casual players who can't login to the game as often and helps more hardcore players by perhaps allowing them to sleep a bit more.

The advantages of such a system would be something which benefits nearly all players.
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Unread 4 May 2006, 00:03   #26
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

being able to monitor incoming fleets isnt a reward for activity - its an obligation which requires activity.
Alliance and experiance are mostly irrelevent to this discussion , so long as someone is active enough they can be in a decent alliance. It doesnt mean they have to be online for 16 hours a day for instance in order to join it.
Experiance is gained by playing rounds and not by being active as much as possible

Why should those who dont put as much effort in be granted the same priviledges as those who do?
its just dumbing down the game to give it to all imo without keeping the hardcore option open for those who want to get an advantage for putting the time in
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Unread 4 May 2006, 00:32   #27
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Hero
Why should casual players be punished for using a queue system? Adding such artificial penalties only punishes the people this idea is aimed at - more casual players.
Personally, i believe that activity should be rewarded insofar as people who plan ahead and have researches/constructions complete around the time when they are online (and active people are online more), then that is the best outcome as the more people are on, the more they participate in the community and/or with their alliance.

By adding a "penalty" for queing up research/constructions, you arent necessarily penalising the inactive players. All that is different is that players need to do a cost/benefit analysis before clicking the button. Take, for example, a scenario with a player who can get online once every 24 hours. They know that their constructions take 10 hours, and research takes 32 hours. In this situation, they would only be able to do 1 construction a day, and 1 research every two days. With a queing system, they could do 2 constructions a day (assuming that additional time is equal to or less than 2 hours per construction), and/or incurr x% more cost for doing so. If the construction/s were a Refinery, then they would produce 10k more resources (10ticks *1000), which you can then deduct from the "penalty" for scheduling the construction.

Similarly, with research, by scheduling the next research item a player who can get on every 24 hours will be able to do 2 researches over 3 days, instead of the alternative 4 days. Even with a penalty of 10%, this benefit is significant to still make it worthwhile for players to schedule items, whilst not penalising those who are active.

Thus, i support the idea in principle. As for certain costs etc, i am not quite so sure - that is, in my mind, the only area that needs to be discussed...
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Unread 4 May 2006, 02:39   #28
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Little point in giving a tick penalty for queuing in order to prevent losing ticks...
obviously queuing Research is relevant for the first week of PA coz after that the research time is quite high.
That leaves Queuing constructions as the main issue. Rather than a time penalty, a cost penalty could be implemented.
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Unread 4 May 2006, 16:22   #29
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

You could perhaps keep research as it is, but make constructions more friendlier?

Allow constructions to have "default choice" option, which could be set to Metal Refinary for example. If the player doesn't manually initiate a new construction, 1-2 ticks later it can automatically start the default choice. So a player with constructions taking 8 ticks could get:

Ticks 1-8: Construction (manual, finance centre)
Ticks 9-10: Delay
Ticks 11-18: Construction (automated, metal refinary)
Ticks 19-20: Delay
Ticks 21-28: Construction (automated, metal refinary)

No complex formulas, just a 2 tick delay unless you manually activate the next construction as normal. This still gives an advantage to players who are more active, they can avoid any delay by logging in and manually starting the next construction. Also anyone who isn't able to login for a long period of time gets penalised by the fact they're making the same type of construction whilst they're not logged in.


As for researching, I'm going to agree with Ultimate Newbie on this one. Theres a wide variety of researches you can choose which take different lengths of time. It should be possible to select the research you want so it ends when you're available to start the next one.
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Unread 6 May 2006, 16:05   #30
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Well, having an auto complete system with a default system might be good - i wonder about the implications regarding a potential proliferation of Jammers (or, indeed, Scanners) in the universe if "Jammers" are set as a default...

Additionally, if a planet doesnt have enough resources to start the construction at the end of the delay (ie, when the auto complete would normally start), what happens? does it wait another 2 ticks, and tries again? or does it cancel? etc.

Not too shabby an idea, though .
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Unread 11 May 2006, 20:45   #31
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

There would have to be some extra ticks, because if it was only extra resources then terrans could just dist whore like mad with little to no effort. (Not needed to get up every 4 ticks )
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Unread 5 Jun 2006, 17:05   #32
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

good players are online intime to start researches/constructions and lose few ticks, we shouldn't take that advantage away from active players.
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Unread 5 Jun 2006, 17:24   #33
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Jinstarro, losing a day or two in the start means nothing anymore. You can even start 1 week later and get a good ranking. So letting people queue won't make much of a difference.
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Unread 6 Jun 2006, 14:56   #34
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

I agree, activity rewards people with roids by launching in the early morning hours. But you should be able to get a good nights sleep and keep up with your constructions and research if you don't want to attack, or even if you are going on vacation mode.
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Unread 7 Jun 2006, 02:28   #35
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
or even if you are going on vacation mode.
I'm not so sure that people should be able to que stuff, and then jump into Vac mode and have them complete. Sure, you dont gain resources, but you come back with a full tech tree and immediately start ravishing the universe?

Methinks if you go into vac mode, your planet will complete whatever the ongoing research and construction is, but NOT start on the next scheduled item.
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Unread 22 Jul 2006, 19:13   #36
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Lots of good ideas....

Maybe, just so that activity is still dominant, allowing only 1 queued item (res or const), and only if the previous one is, say, at least 50% complete, or so?

Doing so, it can help indeed active people, allowing more sleep or simply life like working or school Active people would benefit from just a few ticks not missed...

Allowing too much queuing, even with penalites, would allow inactives to basically not suffer from inactivity, and I don't think it is that good when yourself you try to connect as much as you can...

I know this is an old thread, but I think there really is a good option to add here, maybe for next round even? That would really be a super option, instead of saying, half closed eyes at 3am 'well, just 2 ticks more before I can go to sleep' lol
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Unread 22 Jul 2006, 20:12   #37
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

I disagree with any notion of changing the system.

The key to researches/constructions are being active (which results in success and we should reward activity) and organising your research around your lifestyle and sleeping pattern (which we should reward as well).
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Unread 22 Jul 2006, 20:31   #38
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

i think that can be equalised with jester's idea about the costs, say something like a cost of 2 ticks for first res or con in queue, then 5, then 9 and so on.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 08:25   #39
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Unsuprisingly, I agree with lokken for all the reasons which he listed.
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Unread 23 Jul 2006, 15:47   #40
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

The initial idea has been weakened so much by people wanting to add penalties that it would be an entire waste of time trying to implement it.

The more dedicated players wouldn't want anyone else to have the same advantage as them, even if it makes the game more enjoyable for casual players.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 06:46   #41
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
(...) and organising your research around your lifestyle and sleeping pattern (which we should reward as well).
That's simply not possible all the time... Last research I had to start, I had to wonder "Hmm... Do I do this one of 8 ticks, and lose 2 ticks because I'll be working, or this one for 20 ticks, which I don't want now, but I won't lose a tick?"...

Hence the idea of possibly allowing only 1 queued item, at certain strict conditions (like, previous one at 50% at least, or things like that)...

I agree that activity is the key though, you're totally right on that. And no, I would not like it if it were possible to queue everything, even at high costs etc. like mentionned above, because that would remove inconvenience of being inactive - heck, it would even give it advantages nearly!

But lokken, you say that you would "disagree with any notion of changing the system"... Well, changes are precisely what make this game evolve, and what make it more and more enjoyable, round after round...

So, well... That's just my 5 cents. I think this idea is worth being debated.
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Unread 24 Jul 2006, 08:58   #42
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=181011

This was my idea a few months back ago now but this one seemed to have a lot of discussion on the matter.

Took me bloody ages to find it didnt realise how many suggestions i had made :P


edit: Ello spooky :P
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Unread 25 Jul 2006, 01:33   #43
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Re: a research/construction queueing system

As far as research is concerned I would say that the SKILL involved would come from the 'ORDER' you carry out your constructiosn not on the fact that you were available to be onlin when the previous task ended. So no penalty and perhaps some sort of route through the tech tree could make the tactics more important for planning
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