Planetarion Forums

Nusselt · 27 Mar 2003, 19:06

what are we going to do?????

I have this vision of us sitting around for the next months waiting for something to happen.

In fact what i think will happen is that they get to baghdad, then they bring in more troops to sweep up all resistance from basra to baghdad, then bring in as much aid as possible and stuff the faces of the locals to shut them up, but still what exactly are we going to do with baghdad???? Is there some uber elite secret plan that they have thought about??? i fcking hope so, cause no offence, but UK/US seem to be making this up as they go along.

Muslim · 27 Mar 2003, 20:43

its going to be stalingrad V 2.0

Kumnaa · 27 Mar 2003, 20:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Nusselt
what are we going to do?????

I have this vision of us sitting around for the next months waiting for something to happen.

In fact what i think will happen is that they get to baghdad, then they bring in more troops to sweep up all resistance from basra to baghdad, then bring in as much aid as possible and stuff the faces of the locals to shut them up, but still what exactly are we going to do with baghdad???? Is there some uber elite secret plan that they have thought about??? i fcking hope so, cause no offence, but UK/US seem to be making this up as they go along.

they probably bomb them with leaflets telliing them they are **** and we are ace

acropolis · 27 Mar 2003, 20:53

k here it is: Operation TETRIS

we drop millions of copies of game boys with Tetris included into baghdad. i dunno, maybe mini-parachutes so they don't break on impact?

all right now, here's the trick: there's no "pause" button!

here's how it goes down. after 30-40 hours, we send an emag singnal that switches every gameboy in baghdad into super-easy mode. so after a half an hour or so, everyone is having the best game of their life!

when we invade, if they put their gameboys down to shoot our troops, they will lose thier new high-scores. given this ultimatum, they will all surrender or face the ultimate penalty (being the humanitarians that we are, we'll let them finish their game after surrendering)

General Geiger · 28 Mar 2003, 10:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Muslim
its going to be stalingrad V 2.0

It'll be Mini Stalingrad, maybe a Grozny. A million people died at Stalingrad. You won't be able to compare the two. For lengthy, insanely bloody city-battles, Stalingrad will never have an equal. And do bear in mind that they will be actively trying to avoid civilian deaths in Baghdad, whereas the Nazis were intent on genocide. It's not really a good comparison you're making.

But, with thousands of Special Republican Guard in the city, it will indeed be pretty bloody. I think we'll see Coalition deaths in the hundreds, maybe even the low thousands.

Zapman · 28 Mar 2003, 10:30

Quote:

Originally posted by General Geiger
For lengthy, insanely bloody city-battles, Stalingrad will never have an equal.

You don't know that for sure. Who knows, there could actually be weapons of mass destruction and they might use them. However small the chance.

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 10:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Zapman
You don't know that for sure. Who knows, there could actually be weapons of mass destruction and they might use them. However small the chance.

I doubt it. they left all the atropine and suits in basra.

Ste · 28 Mar 2003, 11:51

there's no oil in Baghdad.
Why do we need to go in? Wait for all their scuds to miss and then run out of ammo and we'll win

Gayle29uk · 28 Mar 2003, 12:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain T'Bolt
When the yankees get to baghdad, they will all sit back, relax, and enjoy a glass of fresh, rich, Iraqi crude oil.

And call home on their CDMA mobile phones.

The US government is the most hypocritical self serving bunch of bastards in the world and it just gets worse every day.

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 12:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
The US government is the most hypocritical self serving bunch of bastards in the world and it just gets worse every day.

they are the liberators, they write the rules.

Zword · 28 Mar 2003, 12:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumnaa
they probably bomb them with leaflets telliing them they are **** and we are ace

Well *we*. I don't want bush in our little *we* group. He can be left out"

Gayle29uk · 28 Mar 2003, 12:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Radical Edward
they are the liberators, they write the rules.

Liberators my arse.

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 12:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Liberators my arse.

I was being cynical. I have seen the liberated.

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 12:59

incidentally I think everyone should have a look at pictures of some of the victims of this way before they carry on. I would post a link, but I don't know if it is acceptable or not to do so, as they are rather vile.

Gayle29uk · 28 Mar 2003, 13:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Radical Edward
I would post a link, but I don't know if it is acceptable or not to do so, as they are rather vile.

So is this war. And for those who haven't seen them you can find the pictures of 'liberated' Iraqi's here.

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 13:17

it is incredibly difficult to consolidate those images with the sorts of things the Iraqi people are doing. The war may be vile, and indeed it is, but is the cost worth the potential outcome?

more images if you like. horrible though

Gayle29uk · 28 Mar 2003, 13:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Radical Edward
The war may be vile, and indeed it is, but is the cost worth the potential outcome?

I honestly don't believe it is, no.

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 13:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
I honestly don't believe it is, no.

generations of terror and death under the thumb of saddam, his progeny and followers?

Gayle29uk · 28 Mar 2003, 13:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Radical Edward
generations of terror and death under the thumb of saddam, his progeny and followers?

Another solution? Generations of terror and death don't happen overnight, this whole thing didn't have to happen now and shouldn't be happening now.

CrashTester · 28 Mar 2003, 13:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
And for those who haven't seen them you can find the pictures of 'liberated' Iraqi's here.

Nothing too shocking there, seen worse on a Friday night out.

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 13:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Pi-air
they are not people, they are sandmonkeys

I suspect someone is using an old account, since racism like that is quite possibly going to get you deleted.

CrashTester · 28 Mar 2003, 13:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Another solution? Generations of terror and death don't happen overnight, this whole thing didn't have to happen now and shouldn't be happening now.

And how would you have done things Gayle? If you're good, I'll vote for you when you take up politics.

Wombat · 28 Mar 2003, 13:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Radical Edward
it is incredibly difficult to consolidate those images with the sorts of things the Iraqi people are doing. The war may be vile, and indeed it is, but is the cost worth the potential outcome?

more images if you like. horrible though

did you read the one about 9/11 being a hoax on that site?

most perculular

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 13:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Another solution? Generations of terror and death don't happen overnight, this whole thing didn't have to happen now and shouldn't be happening now.

no they don't happen overnight... but is a few thousand people dying now worse than tens of thousands dying and suffering over the next few decades?

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 13:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Wombat
did you read the one about 9/11 being a hoax on that site?

most perculular

the site itself is full of crap from what I can see, and I thoroughly criticised the person who showed the site to me. the pictures are real though. I should have added

*this site is crap* as a caveat... sorry

Judge · 28 Mar 2003, 14:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
So is this war. And for those who haven't seen them you can find the pictures of 'liberated' Iraqi's here.

Very unpretty to say the least.

Do you not think it is a bit suspect that the Forum on this site has suddenly gone offline?

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 14:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Judge
Very unpretty to say the least.

Do you not think it is a bit suspect that the Forum on this site has suddenly gone offline?

heh. I should look to see if they are pointing out some of the things the fedayeen are up to... I bet not.

Kumnaa · 28 Mar 2003, 14:37

The middle east is none of our concern. Its up to the people of Iraq and its neighbours to sort Saddam out. We are only so heavily involved because of the large amounts of oil that Saddam could have cut off from the rest of the world.

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 14:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumnaa
The middle east is none of our concern. Its up to the people of Iraq and its neighbours to sort Saddam out.

is that really a good moral standpoint? the only problems we should concern ourselves with are the ones near us? Personally I don't feel the same way at all, the world is a small place in reality.

Ste · 28 Mar 2003, 14:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Radical Edward
is that really a good moral standpoint? the only problems we should concern ourselves with are the ones near us? Personally I don't feel the same way at all, the world is a small place in reality.

So lets help in Argentina, or Venezuala, or the Ivory coast, or Libya, or Zimbabwe, or Mozambique, or most of the rest of the world.
No, Iraq is Evil. lets liberate them, and pay them for their oil. no wait, it's not about oil...

Radical Edward · 28 Mar 2003, 14:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Ste
So lets help in Argentina, or Venezuala, or the Ivory coast, or Libya, or Zimbabwe, or Mozambique, or most of the rest of the world.
No, Iraq is Evil. lets liberate them, and pay them for their oil. no wait, it's not about oil...

I didn't say the reasons for liberating iraq were entirely altruistic. my disagreement was with his assertation that

"The middle east is none of our concern."

Woof · 28 Mar 2003, 15:36

I just heard that 2,000 UK soldiers have entered Jordan!
A spokeman reported that she's never been happier

Gayle29uk · 28 Mar 2003, 15:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Subatai
Did you read that article or just the headline? The contract for cell phone rebuilding/building in Iraq has already been given out and it was given out to a GSM based company.

Sorry if the facts are getting in the way of your biased ranting.

I do apologise for your inability to read simple English. The contract for T-Mobile is for a network based in the US, nothing to do with Iraq whatsoever.

CrashTester · 28 Mar 2003, 15:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumnaa
The middle east is none of our concern. Its up to the people of Iraq and its neighbours to sort Saddam out. We are only so heavily involved because of the large amounts of oil that Saddam could have cut off from the rest of the world.

Except its not about oil.

Subatai · 28 Mar 2003, 16:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
I do apologise for your inability to read simple English. The contract for T-Mobile is for a network based in the US, nothing to do with Iraq whatsoever.

I do humbly apologize for your laziness and I will strive to explain things clearly enough to break through your hatred of the truth.

Congressman Issa wrote a letter to the Defence Department protesting the decisions that has already been made to award the contract to a GSM based network providor.

It was incorrect for you to blame the US government for doing something that is the exact opposite of what they are doing.

Congressman Issa just happens to represent San Diego California. Suprise! Suprise! the headquarters of Qualcomm a leading CDMA company.

Subatai

Gayle29uk · 28 Mar 2003, 16:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Subatai
Congressman Issa wrote a letter to the Defence Department protesting the decisions that has already been made to award the contract to a GSM based network providor.

Quote:

Issa introduced a bill this week to bar Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM) -- a cellular technology used in most countries around the world, including European nations, and to a lesser extent in the United States -- from being considered in the rebuilding of Iraq.

The legislation is straightforward: "The Administrator of the United States Agency for International Development and the Secretary of Defense shall require that CDMA technology be used for such communication service." A study released this month said by the end of 2002, about 43 percent of all mobile phones in the United States used Qualcomm's Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) technology.

A little more than a letter | believe you'll find.

Muslim · 28 Mar 2003, 18:28

Quote:

Originally posted by CrashTester
Nothing too shocking there, seen worse on a Friday night out.

sooo, where do you used to go out? ivory coast?

General Geiger · 28 Mar 2003, 20:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Zapman
You don't know that for sure. Who knows, there could actually be weapons of mass destruction and they might use them. However small the chance.

Good point. Stalingrad was a notable conflict because so many people died under conventional weapons fire. Compare the Battle of Stalingrad to other, very bloody events: the dropping of the two atomic bombs on Japan, for instance. 250,000 people were killed there. The Japanese killed a whole lot of people in Manchuria in China in the 1930s and '40s as well, with biological weaponry, mainly anthrax. Probably two nukes was roughly payback (a horrible term, and one I use there only for want of a better word) for what they did to the Chinese. Stalingrad - four times as bloody as the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - is a ghastly tribute to what happens when two immensely powerful nations, geared for total war, concentrate a large percentage of their military resources in scrapping over a small region of land.

Saddam's most memorable unconventional weapons attack, on the Kurds before Desert Storm, killed a "mere" three thousand people. I suppose the number who might die if he released nerve gas and/or disease spores in Baghdad would be greater. Without knowing the exact quantities involved it's difficult to say.

It strikes me that the number of Kurds who died in that infamous attack is roughly equal to the number of Americans who died in the September 11th terrorist attacks, which will be remembered ten times longer than that other event. Indeed, were it not for September 11th and the ensuing War on Terror, leading from the collapse of the Twin Towers to the toppling of the Taliban to the current, all-out effort to depose Saddam Hussein, that particular day of slaughter in northern Iraq would likely never have returned to the television news. Were not those three thousand Kurds as valuable, as worthy to society as the three thousand who died in New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania? Was not their terrible slaughter - even more ghastly in terms of suffering that the trio of kamikaze attacks in the USA, where most of those who died at least suffered relatively painless ends - just as worthy of mounting a years-long campaign against such atrocities as Setember 11th was? But the world's unfair.

I do foresee, however, in the coming weeks, suicide bombers fitted with explosives and sarin canisters walking into American camps with their hands up, then exploding, releasing deadly, invisible clouds of gas.

Muslim · 28 Mar 2003, 22:05

honestly thou i dont think that there will be much bloodshed
the united states has all the time on their hands to sit back and wait for them to become moving skeletons....surrender them with hunger just like in the good´ol days of the dark ages
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Muslim quit (connection reseted by a mexican dude with a pair of plyers)

Anaximander · 29 Mar 2003, 02:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Muslim
honestly thou i dont think that there will be much bloodshed
the united states has all the time on their hands to sit back and wait for them to become moving skeletons....surrender them with hunger just like in the good´ol days of the dark ages
-------------------------------------
Muslim quit (connection reseted by a mexican dude with a pair of plyers)

And how many civilians will die, if the cities are besieged and starved? What do you think will happen, when the islamic world sees the millions of hungry faces of their religious brothers?
The Europeens won't be happy either and with the right campaign the homefront might become difficult aswell. But hey, for the last problem the US government already has a fitting tool: the Patriot Act. They're already using it: Arresting two Nobelprice of Peace carriers and several bishops, because they protested against the war. USA - the country of freedom and democracy.

Tactitus · 29 Mar 2003, 03:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Anaximander
And how many civilians will die, if the cities are besieged and starved? What do you think will happen, when the islamic world sees the millions of hungry faces of their religious brothers?

Probably nothing.

Actually, the coalition forces should surround Baghdad with a wall of food. They could offer food and supplies to all civilians who want to evacuate the city. That would leave just Saddam and his remaining loyal troops left in Baghdad. It might even work except that Saddam would never permit the civilians to leave--he needs them to hide his troops behind and to get them killed to generate anti-western sentiment. So the Iraqi military would be forced to kill the civilians in order to prevent them from escaping starvation. :/

Quote:

The Europeens won't be happy either and with the right campaign the homefront might become difficult aswell.

The Europeans are already cheesed off; but they will do even less than the Arabs.

Quote:

But hey, for the last problem the US government already has a fitting tool: the Patriot Act. They're already using it: Arresting two Nobelprice of Peace carriers and several bishops, because they protested against the war. USA - the country of freedom and democracy.

What are you babbling about? They weren't arrested for protesting; they were arrested for demonstrating without a permit and crossing a police line. It had nothing to do with the Patriot Act.

Anaximander · 29 Mar 2003, 04:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Tactitus
Probably nothing.

The Arab governments would protest, but do nothing. But terrorism will increase, I think.

Quote:

....Saddam would never permit the civilians to leave--he needs them to hide his troops behind and to get them killed to generate anti-western sentiment. So the Iraqi military would be forced to kill the civilians in order to prevent them from escaping starvation. :/

yep.

Quote:

The Europeans are already cheesed off; but they will do even less than the Arabs.

Very much true, I fear. However the British population might want the military go in the city.

Quote:

What are you babbling about? They weren't arrested for protesting; they were arrested for demonstrating without a permit and crossing a police line. It had nothing to do with the Patriot Act.

Two (obviously biased) newssources forgot to mention these details. But in my country ppl normaly won't get arrested and handcuffed for protesting without permit and crossing a police line. Only if the protest become violent against persons and/or property. Was this the case?

Tactitus · 29 Mar 2003, 07:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Anaximander
Two (obviously biased) newssources forgot to mention these details. But in my country ppl normaly won't get arrested and handcuffed for protesting without permit and crossing a police line. Only if the protest become violent against persons and/or property. Was this the case?

This protest was in front of the White House; which has a few more restrictions on protests than, say, your average Iowa cornfield.

Anaximander · 29 Mar 2003, 14:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Tactitus
This protest was in front of the White House; which has a few more restrictions on protests than, say, your average Iowa cornfield.

I'm living in Bonn. The excapital of Germany. Protesting was restricted in our government quarter too. It was called the ban mile. Once I protestet there too without permit and nothing happened, besides being watched by a bunch of bored policeman. But we had been only around 200 people and tried to appear very harmless and nonviolent.
Permit or not. You only start to get problems here, when you're group consist of neonazis or autonoms (extrem left trouble seekers), or when the protests gets violent. The violation is mostly caused by alien groups like the mentioned autonoms, who just look for the opportunity to have some "fun".