Round 41 Stats

[Patrikc]

DoDDy would!

[Tiamat101]

I would. Depending on the team up mixture fr is easily covered with either fi or co. If the uni goes xan heavy then fi will rule. If the uni goes etd heavy then de/co will rule.

But i agree that the fr team up is quite strong however it lacks one thing, the ability to defend vs fi/co. Alliances that go cath/ter/etd fi will dominate the etd/xan alliances.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=mpfs8ujnphp524p

3 fi planets attacking into a heavy value'd xan fr planet. 2 ingal fr defs and its not close to covered. Which means that fi will win because fr cant defend. If alot of people go fr. Then who ever does go fi will have a much easier time defending and attacking.

Although 1 thing that Fr does have for it is a) its cloaked and b) its much better with big #'s

1 bad thing about fr is, that its terribly easy to cover with itself. Both pillager and shadow t2 Fr. So Fr planets wont be able to attack any other fr planets because theres no fr emp ships which means you will have to take a value loss to land attacks on other fr's.

And though that might seem appealing for some alliances, but any one that puts a high price on value cant go to to war with any other alliance that is going fr. So if many alliances go fr it will ultimatly end up with those allys being a block vs the alliances that are going fi/co.

So HC's and strategy members think hard about what block you want to be on because it will almost be certian once the round starts who you will be allying with....

[isildurx]

Jesus that is a stupid calc.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=e6rvfh7qttc4y94

That is a more realistic calc. And what you have to remember is that the fi dudes have to build another ship/class to stop anti crbs while the fr planets can dump all their resources into fr.

[Tiamat101]

Well Isildurx if i wanted to make the 2 def planets the same value as a heavy value then i would have but. what are the chances that the average ingal def is going to have high value like the target.

[Mzyxptlk]

The number of zeroes you put in don't matter in the slightest.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=dlcybhqr0wx48hr

[Shev]

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=mpfs8ujnphp524p

3 fi planets attacking into a heavy value'd xan fr planet.

Why does your "heavy value'd xan fr" have a third of it's value in FI that targets the same as it's FR?

Cosmetically padding a calc with ships that just get frozen by emp then die seems a bit pointless.

[Confraria]

three 1.5mil value planets hitting a 17mill one..

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=9obef4b37fhv6s7

[isildurx]

what, that's the stupid bcalc from earlier fs

[Patrikc]

With one 0 less in the first planet's value/score, decreasing XP (which shouldn't be in hypothetical calcs anyway).

Tiamat, I'm getting the idea you've never played in a fr/de fort gal(/alliance) before.

[isildurx]

Yeah well, I'm not really looking at xp and whatnot. The fact is that fico cant easily hit fr heavy galaxies as the anti fico fr ships are cloaked and can thus be sent 3 times* in galaxy making such incs not too hard to cover.

A way to weaken the FR fleets would be to make CR/BS a bit less SHIT, but seemingly this isn't going to happen.

* two of which are fakes of course

[isildurx]

If these stats are to be used then removing the FR targetting from both the etd and xan FR fleets would be a good start.

[Shhhhhhh]

I think making CR/BS a bit stronger is the better option.
You could end up with almost all races and combo's playable then, Fi/Co kinda weak vs FR and FR kinda weak vs BS/CR , but each time the faster eta makes up for it

Tho i guess it could be funny to have FR fleets roiding eachother all round long too

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by isildurx

* two of which are fakes of course

Thanks for that clarification.

[isildurx]

Well, you can never be too certain on these forums..

[Tiamat101]

You are correct i've never been in a fr/de fort but i have been in Cr/bs + fr def fort before, and i understand the concepts. The point i was trying to make is even in those fort gals not everyone has the same value. So a 3 man fi team on a t10 planet would be hard to cover. Ingal can only cover so much. If the whole gal is getting hit by 3 man team ups then even if they send out there fr fakes they can land most of them because of faking.

Ways of fixing this MAKE CR/BS PLAYABLE for god sakes. increase the dmg on the B.Sword OR make it emp. Drop the Wyvren to init 8 and that should be good.

I also agree you need to Remove the FR targeting from xan/etd fr. If not then fr planets cant attack much because they get covered with fi/co/fr/de Super easy.

These stats DO not favor the value heavy planets, as most landings will require value loss, and its too much of a risk to take for the t20 planets.

[Patrikc]

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

You are correct i've never been in a fr/de fort but i have been in Cr/bs + fr def fort before, and i understand the concepts. The point i was trying to make is even in those fort gals not everyone has the same value. So a 3 man fi team on a t10 planet would be hard to cover.

While a t10 planet might not have all t10 galmates, the values of the attackers in that calc are the same as that t10 planet. You should always assume that all fleets are of equal size. Anyone can noobstomp, it proves nothing.

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

If the whole gal is getting hit by 3 man team ups then even if they send out there fr fakes they can land most of them because of faking.

If those 3 man teamups are of the same average value as the average ingal fleet is, you can easily cover it with a little alliance help. You only need ~1.5 fleets to cover one inc (since Fr fires first, you need to break EMP and then do enough damage, assuming one EMP fleet you need around the same value to break it (not everything is anti-Fr while you have all value in it), and then ~1.5xfleet damage to offset their 2xfleet damage). There are 3 fleets available from each planet, so you can cover two of those waves on each planet. Add in alliance def (ability to actively prelaunch is vital for a fr/de alliance) and you can cover a LOT of waves.
Also, DO NOT EVER LAND ON 'FAKES'. Taking risks like that is never worth it.

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

These stats DO not favor the value heavy planets, as most landings will require value loss, and its too much of a risk to take for the t20 planets.

Erm, what? Value is always great, I can easily say the opposite is also true; if you have a lot of value, other people will have to land on you for losses as well -which are even bigger because you have more value-. Good high value players will find a way to roids, either through bluffing a land with a fake or by noobroiding.


All that aside, I do agree that making cr/bs viable would be the best road to take at the moment. How though...

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Patrikc

if you have a lot of value, other people will have to land on you for losses as well -which are even bigger because you have more value-.

Those losses will only rarely actually occur outside of a bcalc, though.

[Patrikc]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Those losses will only rarely actually occur outside of a bcalc, though.

I highly doubt low(er) value players will take the risk of having their already lacking fleet wiped out only to call a top player's bluff. At most they'd keep something home to kill a fake.

[Mzyxptlk]

Both sides can look at the bcalc and see who ends up better off. I said "rare" because it doesn't happen often that the sides disagree on who that is. Much, much more often, value loss occurs because of an honest mistake or simple inactivity.

[Demort]

To be honest alittle.value loss be good for game making races super effective so they won't lose value at all is only promoting dominance of a certain ship class where as teamup are good.

Also look at it this way due to salvage being nerfed last round defending sucked but by making it so value loss for attacker is inevitable means a slight increase in salvage for defence so more beneficial to defend which is good for game as plenty of chances to gain not just by attacking.

To follow my last statement as I know certain individuals say its a war game promote attacking but defence is as important as offence in war many wars have been won with a superior stronghold then hit your enemy on its retreat.

So answer me this now with new stat changes cath slightly better etd slightly decreased and ter bs made so good even though its got to accept some loss can roid anyone pretty much without an issue.

You see constantly tinkering with stats is pointless in war stats are never balanced that's war you decide best possible ideas to go with your plan right now there is more then 1 path no path can win alone it will be interesting enough.

Frig is okay fi is okay bs is okay add cath cr to bs caths okay then too add de fleet with frig zik de is okay add co with fi fleets co is okay co is pretty good vs fi anyway.

So ultimately stats are fine just finalize them as the pa community has too many whiners and they will never be satisfied unless there favourite race is super and they can have an easy round yet on another thread want run and hide stopped but want it easier to win.

Flame me all you like I don't give a monkeys left testicle just getting sick to death of complaining about this stat that stat yet only pat has produced another stat so unless your all gunna make stats for round after next to show apoc when round nearly over don't bitch and moan.

[isildurx]

I see the stats have gotten a proper overhaul, are they somewhat final now? Good to see cr\bs fleets are a little better and that the FR fleets got weakened.

[Nico]

frigate only wont work.. more fi co.. de.. bs cr will work better for alliance i think.. the frigates are just targeted to much

[Nico]

well frigates do get targeted alot.. and with enough spider you can emp any ingalaxy defending frigates.. and frigates get fired on by battleships cruiser as well.. the wyvern and spirit kill them easely

[Mzyxptlk]

Are you talking to yourself?

[LordNieminen]

Terran Dragons, some wyverns, harpy 5:1 phoenix.. done deal, thou the total ratio should be done right... Just too awesome to pass. Will be intresting to see how huge fortress planets those tick500+ top terran bs planets are... even if they'd do 40/40 anti-fi/co/bs and 20% in anti-fr/de.. they'd still be insane to break.. all hail the salvage rule and free harpy fleets in alliances.

[HeimdallR]

I don't know, i love bashing terrans with a low amount of phoenix

[LordNieminen]

Originally Posted by HeimdallR

I don't know, i love bashing terrans with a low amount of phoenix

It's more about the flak.. reduce the emp efficiency.. and u win by salvage rule, never have needed to shoot much down.. especially as a terran.

Anyways we'll see how it goes.. I'm pretty sure the terran planets will be nightmare to take down after tick600ish if their still there. By takedown I mean.. attacking them without 10+ fleets on a wave... and similar incs to their gals.. and alliances.. aka rape train