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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 17:57   #451
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Angels would be dumb to let ND fight it on their own right now. True, they need to catch up, but Angels can roid very well, and at the same time help ND by putting pressure on 1up. Angels will hit fat targets for roids. Hitting 1up is only with the purpose of killing fleet.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:00   #452
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
The policy worked for them r15!

They finished 2nd.
They manage to single handidly piss off most alliances in top 10.
They collapsed after everyone told them what was going to happen.

Why wouldnt they try the same tactic again?
The strategy at the time was perfectly justified. Exilition and 1up were kicking the living shit out of each other, a sustained conflict was likely (unlike 1up v ND, which wouldn't). We just picked what we thought the best strategy available, managed to beat Angels, 1up, LCH and nearly became one of the worst alliances to win planetarion. To come and have a go at ND politics which in round 15 were dictated by Grog and myself and then say they were the same in round 16 (when they aren't) is pretty much slandering the current HC. The tactic in my view is, if given the opportunity is one I'd follow again in round 15, except perhaps I'd have advocated doing it on a much larger scale. I have explained about why it made sense above.

Our 2nd placed finish was down to a terminal military failure which is so horrific you can't even contemplate. Our pathetic performance at that stage is one of the principal reasons I am not playing in ND this round, I don't want the stress. Collapse was pretty accurate, but it was more self inflicted than any effort of exilition or their allies. The internal military failure stopped with the command, the buck stopped with them, but to criticise their politics in relation to this doesn't correlate.

Pissing other alliances off is generally the aim of every alliance winning. Alliances exist to piss off their enemies. ND shouldn't expect favours - they are simply selling an opportunity to the rest of the universe. No alliance owes any other alliance anything. They do things for their own benefit, and no one asked for favours, i'm simply outlining that the gamble they offer is far superior to what mazz offers for a whole catalogue of reasons, outlined above.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:00   #453
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
I am somewhat overwhelmed by the hypocrisy of this request.

Now I have no plans to join the ND tag & I can assure you that it's been discussed more on this board then it has ever been between DLR & ND HC.

This request coming from TomKat though, just boggles me.

TomKat tried to join 1up in between rounds & was rejected, he then came to me & asked if he could play with DLR. Although I had several reservations about him, I finally assented & let him join.

He then used DLR raids to become a top 10 planet in roids & score, then got himself accepted into 1up.

So now he is requesting that I promise that DLR members won't do what he himself has already done.

The hypocrisy here is amazing & I really can't believe he actually made the request.
Exactly how is joining an alliance you already have very strong ties to like recruiting to win a round of PA?

What TomKat did may not be entirely ethical from a DLR point of view but if he doesn't want to play your very distinct style of play for this round (let's not forget you even tried to demand which race he went) then why shouldn't he go somewhere else?

This is no way comparable to playing a whole round with the ideals of gaining as much score as humanly possible simply to give an alliance an undeserved win at the end simply by kicking a few inactives and taking in the high score planets.

For the record I don't believe this is the case and I do not think that DLR will be joining the ND tag at any point but to call tomkat names just because he went to an alliance he'd rather be in is fairly juvenile.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:05   #454
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
Ofc it's a rumour and ofc I don't have any evidence, so obvious it aint true, but it's funny anyway to hear that 1up supposedly (here we go again highly speculative) been recruiting galmates to join/help em out
shocker... 1up recruits and tries to be around 50 members... EVIL!

should i leave 1up as they are obviously totally failing to see the idea of the alliance limit? i think i do tbh.... i am dissapointed in all you 1up HC's for recruiting members!!!!!

soon we'll take in a wing and let them in our private channels without being in tag!!!
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:16   #455
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
And I discussed your posts and came to the conclusion that you were scare mongering to try and increase the feeling of inevitability of 1up succeeding purely to increase the public will to form a block and smash us into the floor. Wheres the difference in what we're saying about each others ideas?

You're just being deliberately obtuse.I gave 6/7 posts in response to all yours discussing both sides. Just reeks of you having nothing better to say to me and it's about the best you can do in response to the discussion not having a clear outcome. I'm sure you'll get over it though with a bit of counselling.
Quote:
Then we'll agree to differ because I think you're doing nothing more than trying to scare monger a bigger faction against 1up to ease ND's days and nights.

It doesn't matter who you're fighting, if you have more value and better fleet composition then you're off to a flyer and the scenario I've outlines would give a means of getting into this position.
That was less of a discussion more an attempt to diffuse any discussion that was going on . It's great when posters talk about credibility then chuck in an insult at the end. I'm more than willing to discuss anything you wish.

Quote:
I understand what your theorising but thats all it is. What evidence is there from this round to suggest, particularly after two successful days, that ND are suddenly going to fall apart? They've made a good start so why shouldn't they keep it up? Again, you're just goign out of your way to downplay the effect this is having on 1up by throwing wild speculation into the mix and dismissing the actual evidence set in front of you in favour of a 7 days "guess".
I've submitted evidence from past rounds as to how what i'm saying has some form of evidential support in terms of alliance strength (not score, because game mechanics are different). You omitted to reply from this section of the post earlier on. You want to go on about 2 days which in my mind is **** all when you are going for a conflict with 1up - it's about what happens as time passes.

Quote:
No, ND does not have to prevail. This has been my argument from the beginning. The best outcome would be for both alliances to come out of this after a week or so in really bad shape while the people in the chasing group have limited thier incoming, gained roids and built solid value.
The only other option is a one on one conflict where 1up eventually gains a victory and then proceeds to trash the next (roid fat) opponent for massive XP and gets an unassailable lead.

Quote:
What I meant by an impass was that we're just going back and forth without there being a clear outcome. If you choose to see this as me "throwing the towel in" then go ahead; small things and all that. I personally fail to see the point in saying the same thing over and over again. We both have opposing views and have laid out the basis of these opinions and I'm happy to accept that whereas you seem intent on proving something that can only be shown after the event.
I saw it more or less as a concession at the time. If you have no wish to talk further on the issue because you feel you'll be repeating yourself, that's fine.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:23   #456
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar

For the record I don't believe this is the case and I do not think that DLR will be joining the ND tag at any point but to call tomkat names just because he went to an alliance he'd rather be in is fairly juvenile.
Alliencehoppers during a running round were never my favourites. But besides that the thing I dislike more is that if you on forehand know exactly what you are getting, meaning DLR's playplan, why want to join them so much when you supposedly later realise oooh mm sorry guys but I don;t like it that much anymore, I can join the tag I always liked better and now they have room for me which they didn't seem to have earlier.
Is it me and my short-sightness, or does this show he (ab)usedthe fastest lane possible to join the top tag?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:25   #457
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
shocker... 1up recruits and tries to be around 50 members... EVIL!

should i leave 1up as they are obviously totally failing to see the idea of the alliance limit? i think i do tbh.... i am dissapointed in all you 1up HC's for recruiting members!!!!!

soon we'll take in a wing and let them in our private channels without being in tag!!!
I was more likely referring to random galmates not going to join the ingame tag, so just extra cannonfodder sorta speak
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:27   #458
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
What baffles me is why dont Angels and Subh just sit it out for a bit, get some easy roids grow, and let ND and 1up beat the shit out of each other.
In which case, why would ND continue a battle they're going to lose? They'd instead play for second and let angels & subh get massacred by 1up, giving 1up the round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
Theres no need for them to involve themselves in a battle which is blatantly weakening each side as much as the other. Rather they can both gain roids and score.
Which, as has already been said, will be taken straight off them. They will be slaughtered. I'm looking beyond a week or two, as it's end of round ranks that count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Why should they though? ND didn't have the spine to throw thier hat in when Subh, Angels and LCH tried it. Prior to this conflict Nd tried it on a single occasion and backed down and promised to stay away after we made it clear they were about to be focussed on with everything we had if they didn't desist.

The hypocrisy is just frightening.

ND the kings of not lifting a finger and expecting the world to fight thier wars for them.
An excellent propaganda post mazzelaar. I guess we'll just see which is stronger; subh/angels desire to stand a chance at winning, or their desire to get one back at ND.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:27   #459
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
What TomKat did may not be entirely ethical from a DLR point of view but if he doesn't want to play your very distinct style of play for this round (let's not forget you even tried to demand which race he went) then why shouldn't he go somewhere else?
Just to point out here that DLR is known for all going the same race, so it really shouldn't have been a major suprise for him.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:29   #460
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

1 quick questions why is everyone saying that "the alliances" helping ND shouldn't . It seems obvious to me that in planetarion, you play to win if subh angels etc wanna win they need to take down the top, the take out no 2, im not saying that ND will win, or than ND will lose but rememeber the no 3 down alliances are to far behind to come 2nd if ND was fencesiitng. As far as im concerned it seemed obvious for "the alliances" to help ND unless they wanna finish 3rd downwards. who remembers 3rd.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:32   #461
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
That was less of a discussion more an attempt to diffuse any discussion that was going on . It's great when posters talk about credibility then chuck in an insult at the end. I'm more than willing to discuss anything you wish.
With all due respect it was your post where the tone changed to point scoring over credible discussion. I'm may have been childish for following suit but then I'm not claiming to be perfect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I've submitted evidence from past rounds as to how what i'm saying has some form of evidential support in terms of alliance strength (not score, because game mechanics are different). You omitted to reply from this section of the post earlier on. You want to go on about 2 days which in my mind is **** all when you are going for a conflict with 1up - it's about what happens as time passes.
And exactly how is that different from you just brushing aside the fact of the war over the past two days. Just because you say it doesn't matter? That's double standards of gargantuan proportions. You may well be right, 24 ticks from now 1up may well smash ND into the floor but the evidence so far does absolutely nothing to support that theory and to stick to "it must be because I say it is" is about as weak an argument as you get. You're just plain ignoring current stats simply because it doesn't fit nicely in with your theory.

I didn't realise I'd omitted anything so I'll try (from memory) to include what you're referencing. Alliance strength is measured in a completely different manner this round due to the sginificantly smaller alliances sizes, the actual mechanics of the game and the strategies one must enforce to be effective on the battlefield. 1up are a strong alliance and have been in the past, there is no doubt about that but why does that suddenly mean that they arethat far removed from ND this round? ND have shown great competency in making in roads into 1up over the last two days so evidently it boils down to how much each side wants it. Do we see any evidence so far of ND wanting it less? No. Is it the same ND that crumbled in R14? No. So I bascially fail to see what supporting evidence your trying to draw from comparing two rounds where everything is completely different (inluding ND command and strategic policies).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
The only other option is a one on one conflict where 1up eventually gains a victory and then proceeds to trash the next (roid fat) opponent for massive XP and gets an unassailable lead.
I'm very grateful that you hold 1up in such high regard but I'm fairly sure the alliances rank 3+ may have something to say about the matter. How about 1up do come through against ND (and we know damned well they aren't going to be unscathed) and Angels and Subh have stayed out of it gaining that value I hold in such high regard. Whats to stop them teaming together to finish the job on a depleted 1up? This way ND would've been gotten rid of and they've let ND do all the donkey work while taking themselves out of the equation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I saw it more or less as a concession at the time. If you have no wish to talk further on the issue because you feel you'll be repeating yourself, that's fine.
It's not about repeating oneself, it's about not being able to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt. We both have theoretical and statistical evidence supporting both points of view but not to the point where either one of us is beyond doubt.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:34   #462
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
Alliencehoppers during a running round were never my favourites. But besides that the thing I dislike more is that if you on forehand know exactly what you are getting, meaning DLR's playplan, why want to join them so much when you supposedly later realise oooh mm sorry guys but I don;t like it that much anymore, I can join the tag I always liked better and now they have room for me which they didn't seem to have earlier.
Is it me and my short-sightness, or does this show he (ab)usedthe fastest lane possible to join the top tag?
Damn these bloody westerners and thier freedom of choice!!!
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:35   #463
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
I was more likely referring to random galmates not going to join the ingame tag, so just extra cannonfodder sorta speak
Would you be kind enough to decipher that for me?

If I'm guessing right you're trying to say we recruit gal mates, get them to do 1ups dirty work and then don't let them join the tag?

If so; are you on crack?
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:37   #464
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
An excellent propaganda post mazzelaar. I guess we'll just see which is stronger; subh/angels desire to stand a chance at winning, or their desire to get one back at ND.
Whats propoganda got to do with it? I'm just saying if it was I'd let you die because you certainly weren't willing to put the work in when we needed help. I just think it's hypocritical to expect a free ride and when that doesn't work out expect people to come and prop you up.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:39   #465
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Just to point out here that DLR is known for all going the same race, so it really shouldn't have been a major suprise for him.
True but it was mainly in reference to the no def etc. We all try some things we don'tlike sometimes with the best of intentions. I'm just pointing out that changing your mind isn't against the law.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:39   #466
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

imo, nothing short of a cock up of massive proportions on the part of ND will let 1up finish ND off in a matter of days. to suggest that its gonna happen 'unless you do something' is fallacy.
(unless ofc ND are set on crippling themselves deliberately to make others go for 1up instead along the lines of "if we cant have it, you aint either")

Were I angels/subh/etc HC, i would try to prolong the war between 1up and nd for as long as possible, going for whoever looks like they are getting an advantage over the other to that end, balancing the war to prolong it , while going for xp and value in main attacks.
However - we should all stop trying to be back-seat HC forming policy for other alliances and let them get on with it themselves.
they know the score as well, and no doubt they have plans of their own.

ND desperately trying to create the impression that unless everyone helps them, everyone loses is rather silly - as is the impression that 1up is an unstoppable goliath.
Sure 1up is a damn fine well oiled machine when it has to be but that is not the definitive guide as to who will win.

Let the other alliances form their own policies and tactics i say instead of trying to force the ones you want on them to help further your own goals.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:39   #467
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
and nearly became one of the worst alliances to win planetarion.
No offence but ND didn’t nearly win. ND was left alone cause everybody knew they could be taken out any time. ND might have had a chance if they tried uphold the war but instead they bashed the losing side and then asked for their help to win.

And then you have the nerve to come here and say ND played something close to a perfect political round when all you did was to roids full gals the entire round and then commit political suicide when you help eXilition bash the losing party.

About the ND not being able to fight part. I guess they have proved the last two days that they have improved and that’s even without your political mastermind
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:42   #468
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Would you be kind enough to decipher that for me?

If I'm guessing right you're trying to say we recruit gal mates, get them to do 1ups dirty work and then don't let them join the tag?

If so; are you on crack?

As it was all highly speculative, just like my crackaddiction, nonetheless humorous. Perhaps not all of them are considered 1up material, but you can always let them try and give their best shot
Gawd, I hypothetically gotta cut down on my daily needs, I might get paranoid
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:45   #469
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
As it was all highly speculative, just like my crackaddiction, nonetheless humorous. Perhaps not all of them are considered 1up material, but you can always let them try and give their best shot
Gawd, I hypothetically gotta cut down on my daily needs, I might get paranoid
If you can show me a single example of this then I'd be more than happy to listen some more of your nonsense but til then I'll ignore you for a bit because thats even more ridiculous than people claiming VGN are our assboys.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:48   #470
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

How about we all agree that whoever ends up #1 at the end is the winner, and that's the end of it? We can debate endlessly about "what if X happened", but it's really quite pointless. ND haven't won a round before simply because they haven't done enough to win. A 'moral' victory doesn't count. If ND want to win this round, they have to finish #1. The same for 1up - if they want to be counted as winners, they have to finish #1.

The excuses are, of course, already lined up - ND will claim they didn't have all of their best players, 1up will claim that the ND/DLR thing was unfair, or that some recruitment shenanigans cheated them of the top spot. But in the end, it's the rankings that matter and nothing else.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:50   #471
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
No one doubts that 1up and ND kicking lumps out of each other is good for everyone else - this is stating the obvious. But for the rest to have a better chance of winning, ND has to prevail, which means its in their interests to help them out.
Tbh it would mean striking a balance of helping ND to win the ND/1up war but to leave ND wounded enough for #1 place to be lost.
Prolonged war = impoverisment.

Damn I wish I didnt take this round off
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:53   #472
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
With all due respect it was your post where the tone changed to point scoring over credible discussion. I'm may have been childish for following suit but then I'm not claiming to be perfect.
Well that's that one settled then.


Quote:
And exactly how is that different from you just brushing aside the fact of the war over the past two days. Just because you say it doesn't matter? That's double standards of gargantuan proportions. You may well be right, 24 ticks from now 1up may well smash ND into the floor but the evidence so far does absolutely nothing to support that theory and to stick to "it must be because I say it is" is about as weak an argument as you get. You're just plain ignoring current stats simply because it doesn't fit nicely in with your theory.
No, I'm just saying that it won't tell you anything near the full picture as this to me is a question about how long this war can be slugged out. I am simply saying the true picture will take time to emerge, hence it is hasty. So in the alternative, I've looked back at other rounds (where despite game mechanics/stats being different, the idea of gaining roids, stamina and strength is the same) and suggested that my proposed scenario leads to an open round, rather than 1up being allowed to pick people off.

Quote:
I didn't realise I'd omitted anything so I'll try (from memory) to include what you're referencing. Alliance strength is measured in a completely different manner this round due to the sginificantly smaller alliances sizes, the actual mechanics of the game and the strategies one must enforce to be effective on the battlefield. 1up are a strong alliance and have been in the past, there is no doubt about that but why does that suddenly mean that they arethat far removed from ND this round? ND have shown great competency in making in roads into 1up over the last two days so evidently it boils down to how much each side wants it. Do we see any evidence so far of ND wanting it less? No. Is it the same ND that crumbled in R14? No. So I bascially fail to see what supporting evidence your trying to draw from comparing two rounds where everything is completely different (inluding ND command and strategic policies).
I see strength in the sense what alliances can chuck at other alliances, day in day out. You could have all the value in the world, but if you aren't effective with it, well it's not of much value (lol). 1up have been consistently better that ND for a long time (despite last round's ranking) and the ranking before this war started and the fact that 1up has chucked off alliances of similar stature earlier on this round suggests that one on one, they are up against it. When ND play properly, they are pretty competent on the military front, but as last round and the round previously showed, it is the consistency that is the major requirement. 1up can be less worried about this.


Quote:
I'm very grateful that you hold 1up in such high regard but I'm fairly sure the alliances rank 3+ may have something to say about the matter. How about 1up do come through against ND (and we know damned well they aren't going to be unscathed) and Angels and Subh have stayed out of it gaining that value I hold in such high regard. Whats to stop them teaming together to finish the job on a depleted 1up? This way ND would've been gotten rid of and they've let ND do all the donkey work while taking themselves out of the equation.
No one denies 1up will be depleted, but they'll be pretty motivated, determined to finish the job and will be in a position to harvest XP, much like Exilition did to ND even if they are outgunned at that stage. Therefore, shutting them down seems to be the best option.

Quote:
It's not about repeating oneself, it's about not being able to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt. We both have theoretical and statistical evidence supporting both points of view but not to the point where either one of us is beyond doubt.
This is a fair comment.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:56   #473
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog
The hypocrisy here is amazing & I really can't believe he actually made the request.
Like I said, yourself and Troll have more integrity (than me) and wouldn't merge DLR with ND. I'm glad I'm right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinho
Alliencehoppers during a running round were never my favourites. But besides that the thing I dislike more is that if you on forehand know exactly what you are getting, meaning DLR's playplan, why want to join them so much when you supposedly later realise oooh mm sorry guys but I don;t like it that much anymore, I can join the tag I always liked better and now they have room for me which they didn't seem to have earlier.
You don't know my story really, and I'm not going to go into it. I thought the idea of DLR was great - 3 fleet attack, not be that active, have fun. But I realised that I'm too used to the idea of alliances. Sure, I play for myself - but I also want my alliance to do well. DLR didnt' seem to have an aim or objective for their alliance.

Maybe it was unethical and a bit shitty of me. This is Alliance Discussions though, not TomKat Discussions, so can we move on to the mud-slinging between NDers and 1upper please?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 18:56   #474
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken


This is a fair comment.
At this point I'm going to concede that either one of us could be right and thank for you a vastly enjoyable discussion.*




This is most definately not a concession of you being the "winner" ;p
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 19:25   #475
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
I've looked back at other rounds (where despite game mechanics/stats being different, the idea of gaining roids, stamina and strength is the same) and suggested that my proposed scenario leads to an open round, rather than 1up being allowed to pick people off.
This assumes that 1up will be in a position where it is able to simply pick alliances off one at a time.
Personally i dont think it will - since this war with ND is going to be a war of attrition really and highly unlikely to be won conclusively so that 1up can just waltz onto the next target with impunity.
Tbh it just sounds like rhetoric to me : "you must attack 1up now or you will all lose" etc, See previous post; 1up is not an unstoppable goliath
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 19:31   #476
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
The excuses are, of course, already lined up - ND will claim they didn't have all of their best players, 1up will claim that the ND/DLR thing was unfair, or that some recruitment shenanigans cheated them of the top spot. But in the end, it's the rankings that matter and nothing else.
The only ND'ers that will need excuses are those not in it, as they are making us (myself included) look a bit daft. They have had a good round whatever. If they lose to 1up, well they've lost and it's their fault and their choice, rather than that they felt they should fight for the sake of it. But they are doing a fantastic job, so i'll hold my hands up to this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treveler
No offence but ND didn’t nearly win. ND was left alone cause everybody knew they could be taken out any time. ND might have has a chance if they tried uphold the war but instead they bashed the losing side and then asked for their help to win.

And then you have the nerve to come here and say ND played something close to a perfect political round when all you did was to roids full gals the entire round and then commit political suicide when you help eXilition bash the losing party.
Last round, Angels and 1up teaming up to take ND after intervening and getting hit by Exilition while helping them out would have been catastrophic. If you don't think 3 days is close (while the result wasn't in doubt) then I don't see how i can please you on this one. I feel with a week of application, we might have scratched over the line. Sadly we lost it in late november. ND is tougher now and good on em.

Quote:
About the ND not being able to fight part. I guess they have proved the last two days that they have improved and that’s even without your political mastermind
What does military ability have to do with politics exactly. This was non-sensical. I'm the first to admit that ND's performance is making me look like a bit of a prat for not wanting the stress of it all, but it was my choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
thank for you a vastly enjoyable discussion.
likewise.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 19:35   #477
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
This assumes that 1up will be in a position where it is able to simply pick alliances off one at a time.
Personally i dont think it will - since this war with ND is going to be a war of attrition really and highly unlikely to be won conclusively so that 1up can just waltz onto the next target with impunity.
Tbh it just sounds like rhetoric to me : "you must attack 1up now or you will all lose" etc, See previous post; 1up is not an unstoppable goliath
Exilition were pretty much bedraggled last round, yet were still able to get masses of XP off ND. 1up are more than able of doing the same to alliances of equal calibre and making their lead unassailable. It's simply easier to deal with them now, than later. That's all i've pointed out.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 19:36   #478
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Exilition also had a lot of support alliances to back them up, act as escorts / flak etc. 1up doesnt have that
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 19:47   #479
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Exilition also had a lot of support alliances to back them up, act as escorts / flak etc.
Repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true. We already established that neither Subh nor VGN escorted eXil not acted as flak for their targets, so please stop repeating the same tired stuff again and again.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 19:51   #480
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

perhaps not directly on the precise same targets at roughly the same time but they sure soaked up available defence in the alliances ( which i guess is the point in a blockwar - soak it up so the chosen alliance has a bigger chance of getting through on theirs )

my point is, 1up doesnt -have- any backup to rely on for assistance on anything and so the two situations arent directly comparable.
yes exil crushed nd rather quickly at the end but that does not mean 1up is going to do the same to nd, or anyone else unless other alliances get involved.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 19:54   #481
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Exilition also had a lot of support alliances to back them up, act as escorts / flak etc. 1up doesnt have that
ND's loss of roids did not have such a huge impact, it was rather exilition's huge gain in roids/XP, combined with people quitting over roid loss and splatting fleets that did it. :/

Roidloss was considered so unimportant that def to all non-exi incs was stopped in order to try and deal with teh XP issue. We just couldn't stop huge frigate fleets amongst mass fakes from capping 1.2 million score in XP in a single tick from many NDers...
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 21:02   #482
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

1up has tried pretty much the same what ND trying now in the past, how many times have you whined to ND last round to join your war against eXilition. and now this round you come saying that it wouldnt be 'smart' if other alliances did this to you.

this round clearly 1up is best, strongest and winning. tho its funny how you guys perform your act here, claiming you arent so good so other alliances dont team up on you to balance this round.

i doubt other alliance hcs are so blind that they dont see if 1up kills ND this round is over, so maybe attacking 1up, balancing this round and saving their own members from stagnation doesnt seem as such a bad idea tbh. :
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 21:14   #483
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxMilliaN
1up has tried pretty much the same what ND trying now in the past, how many times have you whined to ND last round to join your war against eXilition. and now this round you come saying that it wouldnt be 'smart' if other alliances did this to you.

this round clearly 1up is best, strongest and winning. tho its funny how you guys perform your act here, claiming you arent so good so other alliances dont team up on you to balance this round.

i doubt other alliance hcs are so blind that they dont see if 1up kills ND this round is over, so maybe attacking 1up, balancing this round and saving their own members from stagnation doesnt seem as such a bad idea tbh. :
funny how you always say exi is best, yet when you play you whine at other alliances to ally you, cuz 1up are too strong for you alone...
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 21:22   #484
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
funny how you always say exi is best, yet when you play you whine at other alliances to ally you, cuz 1up are too strong for you alone...
exi dont play this round & and i did claim last rounds that eX was better then 1up

i dont whine at other allys to ally me coz im not an alliance, but i do say what i think and thats: to balance this round and for OTHER alliances besides 1up having chance for #1 (yes i know 1up dont like this thats why you guys post 2000words essays about it) they must teamup and trash 1up. there is no other way as 1up is the strongest and already winning this round.

all 1up is saying atm is "settle for #2" , maybe ppl dont want that?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 21:26   #485
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxMilliaN
(yes i know 1up dont like this thats why you guys post 2000words essays about it)
actually that would be wakey who manages 2k words

comedy aside, let the other alliances form their own policies and stop being a back-seat HC.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 21:42   #486
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

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Originally Posted by MaxMilliaN
1i doubt other alliance hcs are so blind that they dont see if 1up kills ND this round is over, so maybe attacking 1up, balancing this round and saving their own members from stagnation doesnt seem as such a bad idea tbh. :
This is a bit disrespectful to alliances like Angels and Subh who have the quality and drive to beat 1up if ND fails. The way you make it out is only ND are capable of winning the round other than 1up. This quite simply is untrue. If we look at last round no one thought ND would be where they would be and alliances such as Angels are as just as capable if not more so than ND.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 21:56   #487
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
This is a bit disrespectful to alliances like Angels and Subh who have the quality and drive to beat 1up if ND fails. The way you make it out is only ND are capable of winning the round other than 1up. This quite simply is untrue. If we look at last round no one thought ND would be where they would be and alliances such as Angels are as just as capable if not more so than ND.
huh, nowhere did i think ND can beat 1up, i doubt any of the alliances playing can beat 1up, so neither ND. i do say angels/subh/ND all have chances on #1 if they remove the biggest threat atm.

i think Angels/Subh/ND got bigger chances for #1 with 1up out of the picture, claiming otherwise is silly.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 22:02   #488
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

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Originally Posted by MaxMilliaN
huh, nowhere did i think ND can beat 1up, i doubt any of the alliances playing can beat 1up, so neither ND. i do say angels/subh/ND all have chances on #1 if they remove the biggest threat atm.

i think Angels/Subh/ND got bigger chances for #1 with 1up out of the picture, claiming otherwise is silly.
picture the scene for 1 minute.

eXiltion last round v 1up, ND, Angels, LCH

Now tell me could eXilition realisticly do anything? Im all for pegging back an alliance but ruining the round for an alliance without much gain for anyone seems pointless. What would angels and subh gain from hitting 1up?

ND left angels, subh and lch high and dry when they wanted to do something similar so ND could gain roids and score. Now the boot is on the other foot ND want and need the other allies, but why should they. They could gain such a roid/score lead that they could outgrow 1up with fleets and come the time they face 1up, they can twat them.

I see no value in more than ND/DLR hitting 1up atm to other alliances.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 22:04   #489
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Gimmick every time you post, you forget the factor of XP in this game.. If Angels outgrow 1up, and 1up have lost lots of value etc, they will rocket past them again, cause of XP, but i suspect you know that and is not telling that on purpose
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 22:19   #490
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Can someone please explain to me what the 1up propaganda team are trying to achieve, all you seem to be doing is saying "why are all of these alliance teaming up on us" I honestly do admire the quality of your attacks AND defence you are all an extremely active well respected (for PA play) bunch of guys (and girls??) I dont think any1 would have been able to take you down alone so accept the fact that ppl realise you guys are good and help may have been needed. The ppl helping us cant catch you and do you think that their highest expectation is no 2 3 4 or 5??? No they want no 1. If we (ND) do get no 1 then you think the ppl helping us will go hmmm well we got 2nd (if they did) and be happy with it no. Its rediculous for you to think that. i HOPE than ND beats 1up not just to be no 1 but for the excitment of the game as it would end up like a free for all with whoever has the best intel wins.

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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 22:35   #491
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
I see no value in more than ND/DLR hitting 1up atm to other alliances.
because ND wont be able to handle 1up alone as none of the alliances atm can.

as i said earlier 1up wants to make this battle for #2, killing ND and 1up wins. rest can battle it out, while it can be ND/angels/subh vs 1up and make it battle for #1. depends what alliances aim for, i would go for #1 as its still possible.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 22:57   #492
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteInMetz
Gimmick every time you post, you forget the factor of XP in this game.. If Angels outgrow 1up, and 1up have lost lots of value etc, they will rocket past them again, cause of XP, but i suspect you know that and is not telling that on purpose
1up will lose there value if they are fleetcaught, I cant see very 1up member being fleetcaught. Already quite a high value alliance (1up that is) so xp wont be the xp that you are dreaming of. If its about xp why dont ND pull a DLR?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 23:14   #493
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
1up will lose there value if they are fleetcaught, I cant see very 1up member being fleetcaught. Already quite a high value alliance (1up that is) so xp wont be the xp that you are dreaming of. If its about xp why dont ND pull a DLR?
So Angels/Subh with a shitloads of extra roids wont grow valuewise?a

In the meanwhile 1up just grows slightly value wise, cause they have no roids, same with ND..

Atleast imo XP will be a huge factor here..
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 23:23   #494
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick

ND left angels, subh and lch high and dry when they wanted to do something similar so ND could gain roids and score. Now the boot is on the other foot ND want and need the other allies, but why should they. They could gain such a roid/score lead that they could outgrow 1up with fleets and come the time they face 1up, they can twat them.

I see no value in more than ND/DLR hitting 1up atm to other alliances.
So essentially your key criteria to their campaign should be revenge rather than anything objective. As many players are proving this round, you don't need lots of fleet, to gain lots of score.

I think there's not much more to be said about your post.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 23:26   #495
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Can 1up send mazzelaar back, he was bettter.
A common misconception. I do it using mirrors, you know :\
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 23:27   #496
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
Why should they now help out ND when ND screwed them over before hand. ND werent willing to help them do the dirty on 1up, why should they do it now.
So they should cut off their nose to spite their face then?

I fail to see how Subh and Angels would have a better chance of beating 1up with ND taken out the running. Especially given the fact Subh, LCH and Angels werent enough at the start of the round.......
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 23:28   #497
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

This is probably a question I'm liely to get flamed for but who cares.

Are DLR and ND going to admit to being allied and cooperating at every level now your planets staying open depends on it?
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 23:30   #498
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
So essentially your key criteria to their campaign should be revenge rather than anything objective. As many players are proving this round, you don't need lots of fleet, to gain lots of score.

I think there's not much more to be said about your post.
Indeed we could all xp whore, its alot easier but it wont make the alliance win. At the end of the day roids/value will over take xp. It does every round and im convinced it will do so this round.

Angels et al can gain equabably good xp but they can also gain roids and value by not getting in the muddy mind field of war.
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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 23:33   #499
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK.:.VJ
As for DLR and ND. They are totally seperate this round. Original DLR are a part of ND but they went on there own in this free round. ND and DLR dont share same channel(exept for 2-3 DLR representivs in ND private chan). DLR are a bunch of XP whores this round(them be elite players! Go Fishey :P and Grog & Co.), It whouldnt contribute to ND`s defence so theres another reason why DLR and ND arnt togther this round. I hope that clears it.
Crystal clear

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Unread 1 Mar 2006, 23:34   #500
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Re: Angels/NewDawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmick
Indeed we could all xp whore, its alot easier but it wont make the alliance win. At the end of the day roids/value will over take xp. It does every round and im convinced it will do so this round.

Angels et al can gain equabably good xp but they can also gain roids and value by not getting in the muddy mind field of war.
Yes because EXil catching NewDawn was completely down to roids and value, nothing to do with XP

Angels would be in the best war ever, one where they attack and dont get attacked back for it, just as sid pointed out......
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