round price

[Fyodor]

Originally posted by InTGuRu
Thanks. I don't mind hearing some more 'stupid yank' jokes. Not everyone in the US, like me, find filing law suit for trivial purposes as enteraining as you do. Don't generalize and say all Americans are as moronic as you.

First of all im not making a "stupid yank"joke. Secondly I dont think a lawsuit in this case is trivial nor am I doing it for entertainment. Sometimes its the only recourse available. Look at the history of the game. How often do you truly believe that the creators have listened to our suggestions. How often have we been lied to...or if lied to is to strong of a word, then misled? And in suggesting that I am moronic for a "trivial" law suit, then I suggest you are most likely the type that never stands his groud, but usually bends over and grabs yer ankles.

[hAl]

Can anyone explain to me how anyone is going to pay 10$ or why they even mention that prize ? There is no US regional payment center so clealry us players need to pay by CC anyways or buy EURO's or NOK's and send them to Europe payment centers by mail.

Most western Euro players can just use the current payment centers as they provide place for euro's and NOK's. Easy enough to send a few euro's from Spain or Italy to Germany or Netherlands.

Euro countries not using euro's and rest of the world will also depend fully on CC.

hAl

[Spinner]

1: The norwegian payment center, will, as always, accept payments in all accepted currencies, in the form of cash sent by mail. So far this has been 100% unproblematic and not 1 payment has been lost in the mail or anything.

2: It is still possible there will be a US payment center, if you read the announcement you will see that I mention that we are working to confirm more centers.

3: harr harr lawsuit

4: All CC payments will be made in pounds, following that pricelist, and we are unable to draw funds in any other currency.

5: The price to play hasnt really gone up, for Euro players, it was 10 Euro last round and the round before that, so in fact , compared to inflation etc, it is cheaper to play. The fact that the dollar has dropped is hardly Jolts, PAs or anyones fault (anyone who frequent the game anyway)

6: To those concerned about furture playerbase, there is something known as the "chicken and the egg" theory.
If there is going to be a future playerbase at all, there needs to be a game. If there is to be a game, there has to be a charge that will keep PA alive until it can be relaunched in Rd10 with some quite drastic improvements changes and additions.

As I wrote in another thread in Alliance Discussions yesterday or the day before, we are concerned about the playerbase issue of course. And I also said that I am currently talking to Jolt about how to approach this, and we are discussing several ideas and some of them are taken from you guys.

It hasnt been easy for us either, we have been stuck in debt-he.. for a long while, and no matter how much we wanted to give everyone a free round, if we cant we cant. The creditors, chairmans and whutstheirnames will always have their say in a commercial company. Do you think my previous chairman made me look like a liar if he suddenly changed his mind? No. Do I have to take the fall? Yes, it was my job back then.

We often have to make desicsions that we KNOW will make us look bad, but we dont always have a choice even though you may seem to think we can do what we want.

As soon as we have found the desired way of approaching the player-base issue, wether its short free mini rounds, free speedgames, limited free accounts or something completely different, you will just have to wait for the descision, which is not mine to take.

Thank you all, and good night
And a little faith, patience and understanding would be nice for a small creator trying to sit in the middle between owners and players.

[InTGuRu]

Originally posted by Fyodor
First of all im not making a "stupid yank"joke. Secondly I dont think a lawsuit in this case is trivial nor am I doing it for entertainment. Sometimes its the only recourse available. Look at the history of the game. How often do you truly believe that the creators have listened to our suggestions. How often have we been lied to...or if lied to is to strong of a word, then misled? And in suggesting that I am moronic for a "trivial" law suit, then I suggest you are most likely the type that never stands his groud, but usually bends over and grabs yer ankles.

I'm not accusing you of making a 'yank joke'. I am using sarcasm to say I'm tired of being generalized in the same group as people like you. People that will go out of their way to sue a company already in debt, to personally attack creators of a gaming community who are already struggling to make ends meet.

When have the creators lied or misled you and what incentive would they have to do so. They have worked every hard to keep this game going and certain things, such as payment for the round, are out of their jurisdiction. What about the earlier rounds which they have maintained for free. And don't even try to argue that the price they have set is too high. Games like Everquest and DaoC charge multiples of what you pay and for a shorter period as well.

Learn to appricate someone's efforts. Don't whine like a 4 year old.

Originally posted by Leshy
For what exactly?

He dont need a reason, he is american

[`Vegeta]

as long as PA doesnt go over $20 ( US) i dont care how much it costs

two questions:

1º is this the small fee ( not free) zeus was talking about !??? 10€ ??

2º Do u think u are getting more players to join the game with this prices ??

i got lots of friends that wont play with this prices!! just because u guys said the fee for this round would be really small, not 10€..., they were really happy to play... i hope u can see that with this prices u will loose lots of players and u wont get any new ones... with other online games like pa around...u wont!! just because they ARE FREE!!! they arent like pa, ofc they arent, but they are free !!!

Mr Spinner, i hope u can understand this point.

thank you.

[Paine]

Originally posted by Ariados
The original idea was to make PA free, instead they increase(?) the price Not that I care personally, but I can't see how they're stupid enough to charge more for a game that already has a shrinking playerbase.

I'm guessing that they're going for the old approach of 'make improvements, get more customers'. It's not an approach that I think will work well, especially when you consider the amount of money that is being taken in comparison with the return.

However, no-one can dispute that PA is a good quality game. I have no quarrel to paying for something I'll use and enjoy. If I have to pay more in order to recieve the best quality gameplay, then so be it.




Paine

[Jaric]

Originally posted by fhaman
simple fact is make cost for example a $1 per account you get 10's of thousands if not 100's of thousands of customers

make it $5 then $10 and now $12+ and every round they are losing 100's if not 1000's of customers.

just my 2 cents I am sure I will be flamed more about this

No flame! I think there have been some interesting points around. Keep in mind though that every credit card transaction costs x. It's probably just not financially viable to process a $1 transaction.

thank you for the clarification spinner...good to know you guys have the player base in mind and are at least considering some sort of free account system.

[Ultramar]

Originally posted by Fyodor
So being true to my US origin, this is what im going to try to do. A law suit against Jolt.....

Typical American... SUE, SUE etc etc...

[InTGuRu]

Originally posted by Ultramar
Typical American... SUE, SUE etc etc...

don't classify me with him

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Exode
Maybe its time to find a worthy replacement to pa?
Imo both Dawn of myth and starsp*ere among others suck hairy yeti-****s and I wont play them, cuz nothing can fight with pa atm.

Utopia is in a way a nice replacement... If you are easily annoyed though don't play it: It's free but every few minutes you get masses of advertisement popping up, allways the same two or three advertisements, that after a while make you want to bomb those companies advertising there and producing those popups. (supposively the popups go away though if you pay)

[RexDrax]

A few concerns here, and please keep in mind that all of the prices I am refering to is in US dollars since thats what I will be paying with.

Well its a great idea that PA is being offered in multiple credits, specifically the "Full Monty". However I am reluctant to purchase it due to the fact that I have no idea what r10 will be like. If some more info could be provided it would make the decision easier, however due to the past record of the game I do not want to commit to a totally re-vamped game that I might not enjoy as in previous rounds. The other concern is the speedgames. Some tentative date would be apprciated as well as the numbers of potention gamers that can sign up. In the past its always been 500 players, but if a lot go for the "Full Monty" and I miss signup, does that mean I lose my credit, or does it get carried over?

It seems to me that the current prices are encouraging players to buy single accounts and take a wait and see approach, or buy multiple credits but only for round9 and not any of the higher packages since in the past PA has not been very reliable. I realize that you guys are trying to improve your record, but the past cant be forgotten that fast. Not sure what you can do to instill confidence but maybe you should re-evaluate the price scheme, or at least offer some other incentives to buy multiple credits, ie for round9 and 10 at once.

-RexDrax

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Spinner

3: harr harr lawsuit

The way you enjoy lawsuits for PA's multiple breach of contracts seemingly not able to effect you anymore one could almost think the whole selling PA was a scheme developed by you to get rid of that "threat" ;-)

Originally posted by Spinner

We often have to make desicsions that we KNOW will make us look bad, but we dont always have a choice even though you may seem to think we can do what we want.

As soon as we have found the desired way of approaching the player-base issue, wether its short free mini rounds, free speedgames, limited free accounts or something completely different, you will just have to wait for the descision, which is not mine to take.

Thank you all, and good night
And a little faith, patience and understanding would be nice for a small creator trying to sit in the middle between owners and players.

Well, untill the end you didn't exactly make it clear that you were not in fact leading FS but rather following some chairmans orders. I, and I guess others as well, thought FS was your private little company, basically led by you (the creators).

Perhaps your job could have been a bit easier if at the time FS was created you would have clearly stated that PA basically is sold and you are only employees now that have to do as you're told. (I'm not entirely certain whether in fact you were only employees, but thats the way it sounds to me nowadays.)

Spinner where are you getting the idea that lower USD value is the problem?

Since the Euro came out its been slightly higher then the USD every time I have checked.

If every one is charged in GBP's, 8 for 1 account then both credit card paying americans and Euro users will be paying a little over $12.

To my knowledge Euro's havent lost value if so not that much. And the USD is still just slightly below the euro in value as its always been.

So how exactly is it supposed to be cheaper?


Also even if their is a USA payment center I dont wanna wait for the postal service as I am sure many dont to get their credits. I also dont wanna be charged more then any other round basically be penalized for using a credit card.


IF a USA center is opened I have to pay $10 USD
if I pay by credit card I have to pay $12.?? USD

thats just not right even with the cost of accepting credit cards which I know the common fees all to well being a business man myself and accepting them daily. they average between 2.0 and 3.5% + $0.30 per transaction, which is in no way comparable to the $2.?? price difference. Plus those recieval/processing fees ARE NOT OUR PROBLEM THEIR YOURS. Recieval fees should be included in the total price not have two prices depending on how we give you our money.

yes... seems like a reason for the US players to complain...

/me bows to fhaman... master

[Salomo]

Originally posted by jackchaos
2º Do u think u are getting more players to join the game with this prices ??

i got lots of friends that wont play with this prices!! just because u guys said the fee for this round would be really small, not 10€..., they were really happy to play... i hope u can see that with this prices u will loose lots of players and u wont get any new ones... with other online games like pa around...u wont!! just because they ARE FREE!!! they arent like pa, ofc they arent, but they are free !!!

Probably this is easier to say for me as ex-player that most likely wont pay or play in the near future anyway, but free rounds, as nice as they seem, probably wont help against the decrease in playerbase much and are hence rather useless.

I think we have to accept by now that Planetarion wont be permanently free again, at least not untill the next internet boom and rising Advertisement revenues. Hence to secure a larger playerbase Planetarion doesn't need just any kind of players, it needs people willing to pay for PA.

Free rounds do increase the playerbase fast, but very very many of those "new" players you get probably are "free players" (people looking for free or extremely cheap games to play). Some of them may like PA enough to change their custom of not paying and stay around for the pay to play rounds, but probably the vast majority of them will leave when they are required to pay again. The result is one free and fun round for the players, one round of costs without gains for the owners, and hardly any long-term improvements for the playerbase.


So after reconsidering the whole issue a bit (i used to favour a free round as well) i've come to the conclusion that the aproach Jolt seems to be making, improving the product (the allready legendary r10) but keeping the price can be a lot better for PA if done properly than a free round. To get a long-term increase of the playerbase you need to attract people willing to pay for the games they play and not artificially increase the playerbase with people unwilling to pay. Since those people you want are willing to pay anyway, a free round probably wont impress them much. It's not about the money for them, it's about the product, so improving the product seems to be the better way to keep those paying players happy.

Of course you still need to find a way to get the new players to know your product and then stay with it, but i guess "samples" (mini-rounds, limited trial periods) will do the trick just as well here as they do in basically every other product sales business.

[Salomo]

Originally posted by fhaman
Plus those recieval/processing fees ARE NOT OUR PROBLEM THEIR YOURS.

actually it seems you have much more of a problem with them than spinner or jolt ;-)

Originally posted by Salomo
actually it seems you have much more of a problem with them than spinner or jolt ;-)

I was stating an average I know the fees can be much higher and much lower. in the case of PA I am sure it is lower which just makes my point a bit better

[hAl]

Fhaman, Price is exctly the same in Euro's as it was before. Euro just dropped a lot after introduction and have gone up quite a bit. Dollar were higher than euro's for more than half a year From lowest point 6 months or so the euro's probably went up 15% or so aginst the dollar. Also pounds have gone up against the dollar.

Prices for CC being higher is also not uncommon. CC transactions have higer risk (as we have seen in the past and as you are well aware of yourself !!!) and transactions costs. Payment centers seem to be run on volunteer or very low cost basis so that it limits cost on those kind of payments. PA gets one bulk payment for loads of accounts trough those. That is a big advantage.

hAl

Originally posted by Spinner
5: The price to play hasnt really gone up, for Euro players, it was 10 Euro last round and the round before that, so in fact , compared to inflation etc, it is cheaper to play. The fact that the dollar has dropped is hardly Jolts, PAs or anyones fault (anyone who frequent the game anyway)

Sorry, I thought that last round was 5 euro. I was mistaken. I apologize.
But my problem isn't paying those 10 euro's (as some reply told me my internet would cost me more, etc, etc). I was more thinking about the player base. I understand that PA needs money, and players.
My earlier post was not an attack to PA, creators nor a flame. I was just expecting lower prices.

[zenopus]

Originally posted by krazor
... I was just expecting lower prices.

I for one would be interested in knowing what brought on that expectation.

[Spinner]

Originally posted by Salomo
The way you enjoy lawsuits for PA's multiple breach of contracts seemingly not able to effect you anymore one could almost think the whole selling PA was a scheme developed by you to get rid of that "threat" ;-)

Just show me exactly which contract we did breach and how we did it, I might take it serious

Originally posted by Spinner
Just show me exactly which contract we did breach and how we did it, I might take it serious

All we had was the User Agreement

[lmao]

Ya had ace lawyers on that, hadn't you, Mista Spinnar

[Spinner]

And just where and how was it breached?

[starbreeze]

spinner....
was curious...are you allowed to publish the books for pa?
books being profit(or lack thereof) reports, year ends, gl etc.
would be easier for u to justify the the cureent prices

[Phang]

I want to see if i understand this. the american posters are complaining because if they pay by credit card they have to pay EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE?

[starbreeze]

Originally posted by Phang
I want to see if i understand this. the american posters are complaining because if they pay by credit card they have to pay EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE?

their lead by bush...so they are clearly right to complain

[gzambo]

Originally posted by Colt
Can't ppl get it into their heads that R9 isnt for getting a bigger community, but keeping those, that are already in the game entertained and not bored silly for the next few months, which many have been since r8 closed. R9 is just a filler until r10 comes out.

(start the flames)

i see the point ur making but after rd 9 they are still charging so how do they intend to get new players between rd 9 and rd 10 any prospective new player will prob sign up to the forums and use irc a little and what will they see

they will see all the ppl that have been playing PA give out about the fact that they have to p2p that the community is too small and that anyone joining the game will only be fodder for the more experienced players so what sort of encourgement is that for them to join

commen sense dictates that at least 1 rd after rd 9 is free otherwise rd 10 will be the last rd of PA

note to creators/PA-team you cannot increase ur paying customers if you do not listen to your existing ones because they can promote the game for you and will not be inclined to do so if they see the community dwindleing which it is

Originally posted by Spinner
And just where and how was it breached?

That's the beauty of it, it wasn't

so, mista Fyodor is going to spend $25 for nothing!

Amuses me to no end

[Lan]

first of all, i cant belive all you guys keep whining cause of a few $.

and when you say, "first they **** up r8 with stopping it mid way, and now theyr set up the prices" lol thats just to funny. do you remember why they had to stop pa midround? because they were broke. plz try to see the line here, if they lower the price this round mabye they have to stop round halfway trough again.

this is just to funny to read all the ppl complaing about prices being 1 or 2 $ more. if we pay more maby we get a good game runnign without downtime and other ****

[gzambo]

Originally posted by Lan
first of all, i cant belive all you guys keep whining cause of a few $.

and when you say, "first they **** up r8 with stopping it mid way, and now theyr set up the prices" lol thats just to funny. do you remember why they had to stop pa midround? because they were broke. plz try to see the line here, if they lower the price this round mabye they have to stop round halfway trough again.

this is just to funny to read all the ppl complaing about prices being 1 or 2 $ more. if we pay more maby we get a good game runnign without downtime and other ****

firstly im not complaining bout having to pay my point is that to increase the player base and for the game to continue they need free rds,
secondly they can change whatever the hell they like for rd 10 but if its p2p they will not increase the numbers playing and does anyone seriously think that they can sustain the game if only a core 3-4k ppl are playing

when zeus said a cheap round was he talking about 10€?

just as a idea i have heared a lot of ppl saying thigs like "it would be cool to see the battles" and "it would be great with more 3d graphics". Well why not publish a piece of software which links to the site but offers a load of extra graphics? I expect this would sell pritty well and so make Jolt/PA money and whats a better advertising place than on a computer shops shelves? It may get more ppl into the game.

I know that it may cost a lot to set up and there may be some coding problems but it must be worth a shot no?

Cm

[waassaa]

Originally posted by Spinner
Just show me exactly which contract we did breach and how we did it, I might take it serious

I feel quite insulted here, spinner I thought you seemed to be a decent guy. I am sure you are quite aware that alot of ppl feel they didn't get what they paid for in round 8. Now no blame from me to anyone, i can't be arsed to tell the truth. And it seems PA covered thier asses well enough.
However all those smilies and short "prove it " lines from you are leading me to think you were too clever and maybe thought such a thing would happen.

I for 1 will carry on playing, but no way will i buy any packages from pa. I will pay round for round and if the game fails me again that will be it. My faith in the business "PA" was low.
Your clever ass comments and "ha ha" approach have lowered it even more.

To anyone who cares enough, I stongly advise you not to invest money for rounds "yet to be" even if they are the all singing all dancing super games (cough* rd 10 cough*), that we know nothing about. And that no one is willing to tell us about.

[zenopus]

Originally posted by waassaa
... it seems PA covered thier asses well enough.

PA is a product. Fifth Season was the company...

However all those smilies and short "prove it " lines from you are leading me to think you were too clever and maybe thought such a thing would happen.

I don't see anything odious about Spinner expressing his bemusement and amusement over someones blind trust in the omnipotent powers of the US Justice System... At least I think that was what some of his comment were about, more or less.

As I understand it Spinner no longer has anything to do with FS, so if someone filed a law suit againt FS for $10, Spinner would have little reason to care about the outcome, apart from betting on it down at his local if he can find punters naive enough to think FS would lose.

[Shev]

The sheer amount of speculative and uninformed bs being posted here is staggering.

I mean, shouting about sueing without knowing which company actually owns planetarion is just hilarious.

C O M E D Y

[Colt]

Originally posted by Shev
The sheer amount of speculative and uninformed bs being posted here is staggering.

I mean, shouting about sueing without knowing which company actually owns planetarion is just hilarious.

C O M E D Y

[waassaa]

Originally posted by zenopus
PA is a product. Fifth Season was the company...I don't see anything odious about Spinner expressing his bemusement and amusement over someones blind trust in the omnipotent powers of the US Justice System... At least I think that was what some of his comment were about, more or less.

As I understand it Spinner no longer has anything to do with FS, so if someone filed a law suit againt FS for $10, Spinner would have little reason to care about the outcome, apart from betting on it down at his local if he can find punters naive enough to think FS would lose.

1. i am not only refering to 1 post from spinner.
2. call it what u will PA is PA, and spinner had at all times a say in what was going on, an inside view of all details, and contact to the community.

As i stated, I am not looking to blame anyone, I am sure I would never get to the bottom of it.
As for the Lawyer talk and so on, well if its fun for him and what he believes in fine. waste of time and money if you ask me.

I just believe that as events ran, if i had been in spinners position, I wouldn't see any reason to laugh or make jokes. I would be ashamed of wjhat happened.
Once again this isn't a personel "its his fault post". I don't know or care who is behind PA, i just think all involved should be embaresed.

[zenopus]

Originally posted by waassaa
... if i had been in spinners position, I wouldn't see any reason to laugh or make jokes.

Cultural difference?
Spinner is from a Nordic country. In my experience most of us find it easy to laugh at ourselves, or others. It is a way to release tension.
It can be difficult for us to adjust to people who cannot laugh at their own mistakes or who take offence if you laugh at their mistakes.

I would be ashamed of what happened.
Once again this isn't a personel "its his fault post". I don't know or care who is behind PA, i just think all involved should be embaresed.

I think we are all ashamed to share a community with the CC fraudsters who were a significant contributing factor to the financial calamities of FS.
Without having audit level access to the finances of FS, I could not say if I think FS should be ashamed.
If any of the creators had reason to feel embarrassed, I doubt they would continue to be involved with the PA community.