To the PA Crew..

[Klendau II]

If you're going to annoy 99% of the Universe by shuffling us, then can you please do it now? That at least gives us 2 full days to try and gain our senses in our new galaxies.

[coza]

well said

[Leshy]

Originally posted by Klendau II
If you're going to annoy 99% of the Universe by shuffling us, then can you please do it now? That at least gives us 2 full days to try and gain our senses in our new galaxies.

There's a 72-hour protection period in which you have all peace and quiet needed to get to know your galaxy.

Innit.

[coza]

no not really, u need to relax in that time to get yer mind back to straightness, and u dont want the hassle

[Klendau II]

Leshy, galaxies usually have weeks to prepare themselves for the forthcoming round, and then another good week or so to gather information on their surroundings.

Spinner suddenly launching the thought of yet another shuffle upon us so quickly (after many people, including myself, had sorted their galaxies/parallels/clusters out), simply isn't cricket.

SORT YOURSELVES OUT!

[Leshy]

Originally posted by Klendau II
Leshy, galaxies usually have weeks to prepare themselves for the forthcoming round, and then another good week or so to gather information on their surroundings.

Bollocks.

In most of the past rounds, shuffles have been executed just prior to tickstart, the only difference being that the decision to shuffle was announced earlier. The actual time for galaxies to get organised or do recon of their surroundings is no different this round.

(after many people, including myself, had sorted their galaxies/parallels/clusters out)

Unless you've been accountswapping, you've had about 3 days at most to organise your galaxy/cluster/parallel. Guess how long protection lasts.

[Klendau II]

Originally posted by Leshy
Bollocks.

In most of the past rounds, shuffles have been executed just prior to tickstart, the only difference being that the decision to shuffle was announced earlier. The actual time for galaxies to get organised or do recon of their surroundings is no different this round.

Unless you've been accountswapping, you've had about 3 days at most to organise your galaxy/cluster/parallel. Guess how long protection lasts.

Ok clever dick. To answer your account swapping "joke", haha - very funny, you're the man, well pld.

And to answer your statement on past rounds' shuffles, we've at least had some prior sodding warning, so we've known not to bother wasting our time and energy organizing ourselves.

We humble customers are getting royally shat on.

[Valle the rocker]

[01:42:22] <Klendau> http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...57#post2432857
[01:42:28] <Klendau> somebody back me up
[01:42:31] <Klendau> i'm trying to pwn Leshy :/
[01:50:11] <Valle> i owned him r5


that ones for u klen

[You know what you are -Leshy]

[Klendau II]

Originally posted by Valle the rocker
[01:42:22] <Klendau> http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...57#post2432857
[01:42:28] <Klendau> somebody back me up
[01:42:31] <Klendau> i'm trying to pwn Leshy :/
[01:50:11] <Valle> i owned him r5


that ones for u klen

ty Valle.

you are my god.

[A2]

1) pa CREW doesn't exist and hasn't for several rounds.

2) Another shuffle was NEVER ruled out at the start of this round. The line was "there will not be another shuffle unless the system is abused" (which it has been)

3) As Leshy pointed out -- in several rounds (particularly round 8) there was very limited time to get to know your galaxy before ticks start.

If you haven't been account swapping then you've had 3 days so far to sort yourself out and therefore you should have no problem doing it again IF the shuffle happens. If you have been account sharing/swapping/forming "leet" galaxies then you're one who has caused the problem requiring a shuffle and you've no right to complain at anyone

(Please note -- this was not directed solely at Klendau II, but any anyone who is reading this thread. Just because it wasn't your words I quoted doesn't mean it doesn't apply to you)

[Gitchin]

IF you HAVE to to the shuffle, why not add a feature asking if you wanted to stay in your galaxy (like what happend in round 2 going into 3). That doesnt solve the cheating, it keeps the whole of PA happy, the ones in nice galaxys can stay, the ones in crap galaxies have another chance to get a better galaxy. To stop the cheaters, disable this function on suspected cheaters/the ones that changed their emails. You may piss off a few people who innocently changed their password, and your worried incase they dont pay for planetarion again. But surely risking a small possibility of that occuring, is one hundred times better then pissing of 99% of the universe and causing even more people to never pay to play planetarion again.

[Klendau II]

Originally posted by A2
1) pa CREW doesn't exist and hasn't for several rounds.

2) Another shuffle was NEVER ruled out at the start of this round. The line was "there will not be another shuffle unless the system is abused" (which it has been)

3) As Leshy pointed out -- in several rounds (particularly round 8) there was very limited time to get to know your galaxy before ticks start.

If you haven't been account swapping then you've had 3 days so far to sort yourself out and therefore you should have no problem doing it again IF the shuffle happens. If you have been account sharing/swapping/forming "leet" galaxies then you're one who has caused the problem requiring a shuffle and you've no right to complain at anyone

(Please note -- this was not directed solely at Klendau II, but any anyone who is reading this thread. Just because it wasn't your words I quoted doesn't mean it doesn't apply to you)

Hmmm.

i've been pwned :/

But my original statement was not a question, I wasn't asking for an explanation as to why a shuffle may occur - I was asking for the sake of the round that if it does, it happens bloody soon.

But who am I to make demands? :\

[A2]

Originally posted by Gitchin
IF you HAVE to to the shuffle, why not add a feature asking if you wanted to stay in your galaxy (like what happend in round 2 going into 3). That doesnt solve the cheating, it keeps the whole of PA happy, the ones in nice galaxys can stay, the ones in crap galaxies have another chance to get a better galaxy.

This doesn't stop cheating galaxies from saying "no, we don't want to be shuffled cos we are l33t" which is one of the main reasons why there is the possibilities of another shuffle. If people did NOT CHEAT then life would be a lot easier and such things would not be necessary.

Another case of the minority (cheating scum) destroying everything for the honest majority.

we need to elect gc etc before ticks start so if u are gonna shuffle

DO THE ****ING THING NOW

[Gitchin]

Originally posted by A2
This doesn't stop cheating galaxies from saying "no, we don't want to be shuffled cos we are l33t" which is one of the main reasons why there is the possibilities of another shuffle. If people did NOT CHEAT then life would be a lot easier and such things would not be necessary.

Another case of the minority (cheating scum) destroying everything for the honest majority.

But, cheaters will cheat no matter what. Doing a shuffle is only going to set them back a few days before they do it again. How will the shuffle solve this problem? Besides there must me some indications of cheating anywhere when you have like a finish ip with an english email....

[Korona]

Would be better if you could say there was deffinatly going to be a shuffle or not, at the moment im sure most of the planets are deciding their races on whats best for the galaxy. ie how can people justify going cath because its best for their current active galaxy when they might end up being shuffled into a totally inactive one.

At least shuffle a good few hours before the ticks start and allow for small preperation regarding races.

Even better, don't shuffle

[Klendau II]

Originally posted by Korona
Even better, don't shuffle

^^ Word.

[N0VA]

Leshy - from your posts I take it you do not realize just how much work goes into random rounds. I made sure to ask Spinner in #planetarion whether or not there would be a reshuffle, and he said "no".

Immediately after that, I invested the better part of two days into organizing both a galaxy and a parallel alliance. Now, the work that's been done so far is not intel or time to get to know everyone, just organizational stuff dealing with 20+ planets per gal, of which no one knows anyone else, and then 50 someodd gal's per para, of which no one knows anyone else.

If there is no shuffle, I'm looking at having a more relaxed protection mode where I can actually focus on planet and gal - if there is a shuffle, it means starting over from square one. This is not to say that it can't be done during those 72 ticks, just that it would agitate me to no end.

In rounds past, the last minute shuffles were at least announced ahead of time, so people didn't get everything sorted, just to have to go through it again.

[N0VA]

Originally posted by A2

Another shuffle was NEVER ruled out at the start of this round. The line was "there will not be another shuffle unless the system is abused" (which it has been)

I'm going to be n0rty and paste an irc log, but this is straight from #planetarion, so I hope no one is too displeased about this :P

figar: will universe be shuffled??
Spinner: no figar

If this is not a ruling out of the chance of another shuffle, I don't know what would count as one

[Bashar]

Originally posted by N0VA
I'm going to be n0rty and paste an irc log, but this is straight from #planetarion, so I hope no one is too displeased about this :P

figar: will universe be shuffled??
Spinner: no figar

If this is not a ruling out of the chance of another shuffle, I don't know what would count as one

Sorry to break it to you, but you fail to understand - a ruling out of something in PA means all opportunity has passed, and it has not happened - saying it won't happen is like.... well, like Tony Blair saying something won't happen - it won't, unless it suits him.

[A2]

Originally posted by Gitchin
But, cheaters will cheat no matter what. Doing a shuffle is only going to set them back a few days before they do it again. How will the shuffle solve this problem? Besides there must me some indications of cheating anywhere when you have like a finish ip with an english email....

Not shuffling basically says "well done, you've abused the system and won" to the offending galaxies.

Shuffling, now that e-mail change has been removed, makes it so that all the account swapping of the last couple of days has been pointless. Ok, there will still be people who try to swap to a "l33t" location, but it will be a lot more obvious, and easier to combat.

If it were to slow down account sharing would anyone object to the PA Admins re-setting everyone's passwords ever 4 weeks, or more frequently and mailing them to the registered e-mail address. This would have 2 effects. 1) you would have to have a decent e-mail address for the duration of the round, 2) people who account swap would have to transfer passwords every few weeks, or allow access to their e-mails. Just a thought... opinions?

[N0VA]

Originally posted by Bashar
Sorry to break it to you, but you fail to understand - a ruling out of something in PA means all opportunity has passed, and it has not happened - saying it won't happen is like.... well, like Tony Blair saying something won't happen - it won't, unless it suits him.

If a ruling out requires all opportunity to have passed, then "ruling out" the possibility of a reshuffle would require Round 9.5 to come to an end, because it would still be possible for PA crew to reshuffle the universe at Tick 912 (or any other number). If this is in fact the case, then A2's rebuttal is still flawed on the grounds that pa crew not ruling out a reshuffle only means that Round 9.5 has not yet ended.

[N0VA]

Originally posted by A2

If it were to slow down account sharing would anyone object to the PA Admins re-setting everyone's passwords ever 4 weeks, or more frequently and mailing them to the registered e-mail address. This would have 2 effects. 1) you would have to have a decent e-mail address for the duration of the round, 2) people who account swap would have to transfer passwords every few weeks, or allow access to their e-mails. Just a thought... opinions?

I have always been a fan of random resets and resends of passwords. If you find out your password has been reset, it only adds about 2 minutes on to your login attempt.

I have also been a fan of randomly logging out planets after ticks. This combats people manually logging in a handful of planets to get around the bot stopper, and then letting the bot keep them online.

[Valle the rocker]

Originally posted by N0VA

I have also been a fan of randomly logging out planets after ticks. This combats people manually logging in a handful of planets to get around the bot stopper, and then letting the bot keep them online.

sounds like an ace plan to me

[A2]

Originally posted by N0VA
figar: will universe be shuffled??
Spinner: no figar

If you'd read a couple of minutes before you'd have seen This part of #planetarion. That quote is from 16:39 GMT and is in the middle of a few faults with other sections. Also it was given on the basis of the hope that there would NOT be a need for another shuffle unless someone had abused ths system.

[16:31] <Cheek> <Cheek> Spinner m8 pls reply, just need to know if it will shuffle again or not?
[16:31] <]Darkness[>
[16:31] <Cheek> <Spinner> probably not
[16:31] <Cheek> <Cheek> Thanks m8
[16:31] <Cheek> <Spinner> unless masses of people start to abuse the system later on
[16:31] <Cheek> <Cheek> okies

(times adjusted to reflect GMT)


Incidentally before anyone says "he joined after that was said"...
[14:16] * figar ([email protected]) has joined #planetarion (time again in GMT)

[Bashar]

Originally posted by N0VA
If a ruling out requires all opportunity to have passed, then "ruling out" the possibility of a reshuffle would require Round 9.5 to come to an end, because it would still be possible for PA crew to reshuffle the universe at Tick 912 (or any other number). If this is in fact the case, then A2's rebuttal is still flawed on the grounds that pa crew not ruling out a reshuffle only means that Round 9.5 has not yet ended.

precisely

[Bashar]

wtf can PA never be yes or no??? Maybes just screw things around. If you can see a system can be abused wtf do you implement it? If you can't see it, but know from frequent experience that it still is, why not ask people who can see it? (Or more likely, why not listen to the answers once you have asked them)

[Tactitus]

Originally posted by A2
Also it was given on the basis of the hope that there would NOT be a need for another shuffle unless someone had abused ths system.

Heh. Why does Spinner keep doing this? He often tries to sandbag the customers by being vague about shuffles (`we won't do one unless we need to, etc etc'). I don't remember that ever working and, in the end, the shuffle is done anyway--leaving a trail of annoyed customers in its wake.

[A2]

If you really want me to dig up the reason I posted on one of the shuffle threads as to why e-mail changing was enabled then I will. In fact here it is:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ComradeRob
They can sign up a new account with their new email address.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



People who have pre-paid for r10 need to be able to change their e-mail address so that their credits are tracked and they can recover them next round. If they couldn't change then there would be people who would lose credits due to changing e-mail addresses

The fact still remains that it is the minority of users (ie. the one's who ABUSED the system that was made available for a valid reason) made a mess of everyone else's plans. A "yes" or a "no" answer is not yet possible until the universe has been properly investigated.

[Jellinek]

Then next time don't put | NO SHUFFLE | in topic of #planetarion. Too bad I don't log, so my statement is probably discounted immedeately... Someone must have it somewhere tho..

[SYMM]

Its simple, and i'll say it again.
If you know of people who have cheated, delete them.
If you don't them stop messing people about and get back to coding r10.

I am yet so see a player mentioning/complaining about people swapping in their galaxies. I know that if i knew of it in my gal, i would be the first to complain.
People might want a shuffle because they have an inactive (so-far) galaxy, but that is not a good enough reason to inconvenience everyone else.

merge galaxies if necessary, but a shuffle isn't wanted or needed.

[randal]

at least they prove me wrong as i almost had the impression there is a bit more of "professionality" or something now.. phew

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally posted by randal
at least they prove me wrong as i almost had the impression there is a bit more of "professionality" or something now.. phew

Spinner told me he just did post the shuffle-thing now, so we all didnt get a heartattack becouse of a sudden apperence of professionality.

He did, really.

[A2]

Originally posted by Jellinek
Then next time don't put | NO SHUFFLE | in topic of #planetarion. Too bad I don't log, so my statement is probably discounted immedeately... Someone must have it somewhere tho..

Yes "no shuffle" was put in the topic of #planetarion. The intention was to have no shuffle, when that was put there as signup opened. At least once per minute from about an hour before signup opened we were repeating that there would probably be no shuffle, and so it was put in the topic. When it was put there it was looking unlikely that there would be one, and Spinner had not made the comment that is quoted above.

This was amended/removed when it was put in the Message of the Day that it MIGHT be necessary for there to be a shuffle due to the abuse that had taken place in the preceeding hours.

[Korona]

A2 Can you please respond to my post, id like to know if we will be given confirmation time enough before the shuffle if it happens so we can change race in preperation for not being able to know what the rest of our galaxies races will be.

[A2]

Originally posted by Korona
A2 Can you please respond to my post, id like to know if we will be given confirmation time enough before the shuffle if it happens so we can change race in preperation for not being able to know what the rest of our galaxies races will be.

I would give you a proper answer but I'm afraid I don't have one at the moment.

The decision on whether to shuffle or not has NOT YET BEEN TAKEN (apologies for caps, thought it was worth making it stand out)

IF it does happen then I would imagine that it will be announced, although I cannot give you a date of when that might or might not happen. For the same reason I can't give you any answer about race changing or anything like that, because it is not known, and I am not going to say something which may later be proven wrong.

Again, apologies for not being able to give a straight answer.

[Baco]

Originally posted by Klendau II
If you're going to annoy 99% of the Universe by shuffling us, then can you please do it now? That at least gives us 2 full days to try and gain our senses in our new galaxies.

It won't annoy any1....make the suffle at tick 36 and annoy all those account swappers around!!
That was the most wise decision u guys made in round 8, I hope u make it again!
Thx!

PS - 36 ticks r more than enough to sort anything!! And it happen before with good results!!

[ComradeRob]

Originally posted by Baco
It won't annoy any1....make the suffle at tick 36 and annoy all those account swappers around!!
That was the most wise decision u guys made in round 8, I hope u make it again!
Thx!

PS - 36 ticks r more than enough to sort anything!! And it happen before with good results!!

What about all of the random new players and returning players who are completely dependent on their galaxy/cluster alliance/para alliance for defence?

The experienced players with their alliances and BGs will not be affected, but the unallied players will be totally screwed. Giving them 36 ticks to sort out their galaxies, cluster alliances and para alliances is totally unrealistic. Those new players will not have a hope in hell once they come under attack from the active players with their alliances and BGs, whereas right now, with cluster/para alliances set up and plenty of time to settle into their galaxy and get to know people, those new players might just stand a chance.

Also, the account traders won't really have lost very much - sure, they won't be in a galaxy of their choosing, but they'll still have access to several accounts from which to choose a good galaxy, so the shuffle doesn't punish them all that much.

I can see why a shuffle is good for players with good alliances/BGs - we have everything we need set up already. After the shuffle our alliances can collect the coords of members in and have new para alliances set up within a day. The same does not apply to the new players, who do not have access to those kinds of resources. The alliance players will of course profit, since they'll be able to roid the newbies much more easily early on due to the chaos caused by the shuffle.

[DrCaress]

Why not reset the email addresses of everyone who changed their email address, reset there passes also if need be. give everyone in the universe 1 free exile in the preferences page. if u wanna exile yourself do it, otherwise you stay. as for everyone that wanted to change their email, well they can just MSG someone and request it.

annoying the few ppl who cheated mixed in with some people who are innocent. is much better than annoying everyone in pa.


just curious exactly how many ppl so far changed their email addresses

[isildurx]

Originally posted by ComradeRob
What about all of the random new players and returning players who are completely dependent on their galaxy/cluster alliance/para alliance for defence?

The experienced players with their alliances and BGs will not be affected, but the unallied players will be totally screwed. Giving them 36 ticks to sort out their galaxies, cluster alliances and para alliances is totally unrealistic. Those new players will not have a hope in hell once they come under attack from the active players with their alliances and BGs, whereas right now, with cluster/para alliances set up and plenty of time to settle into their galaxy and get to know people, those new players might just stand a chance.

Also, the account traders won't really have lost very much - sure, they won't be in a galaxy of their choosing, but they'll still have access to several accounts from which to choose a good galaxy, so the shuffle doesn't punish them all that much.

I can see why a shuffle is good for players with good alliances/BGs - we have everything we need set up already. After the shuffle our alliances can collect the coords of members in and have new para alliances set up within a day. The same does not apply to the new players, who do not have access to those kinds of resources. The alliance players will of course profit, since they'll be able to roid the newbies much more easily early on due to the chaos caused by the shuffle.

this i pretty much totally agree with

[aza1]

36 or 2 days to a new player is not going to make a whole lot of difference to their real chances in this game tbh.

New players don't realise the importance of being organised on the whole and it will probably only be after they see the in game mechanics first hand that they will start to do something about it.

just my 2 cents

[Kal]

OK.... My unpopular view.... I happen to like the para I ave randomly landed in, and about 8 hours before they announced there might be a shuffle I started sorting things out. U say I cna just do it again next wekk... well I can;t I have exams all next week. Having this week to sort things out was a really good thing for me. And to be honest if there are people who have cehated on a large scale I couldn;t care less - this is NOT a serious round, I just wanted to ahve a bit of fun working with the people in my nice para... if some people need to cheat to ahve fun, let them... then find out who they are and ban them for life.... would be interesting.. actually... banning anyone who is caught cheating this round for life......

[Little Timmy]

"Guys, I had a bit a of mad round last time - I need a summer off - if you've got a mate who's interested in getting into this gal - email me "


Im not picking on this guy, but this was posted on our politics board. Im sure there are many others like this around and Im sure some unscrupulous people will take advantage of this sort of thing.

Whilst Im not happy about another shuffle, I can see that there is a very valid reason for doing it. Perhaps the only people who should be reshuffled are the ones who have changed email addresses ??

I know this isnt going to prevent or even do anything about those with farm or Multi planets, but a reshuffle is hardly going to stop anyone who has set up multiple planets from finding them again is it. So shuffling the whole galaxy is pointless.

Just do the ones who have changed email addresses. If they are genuine players, the majority of them wont mind.

[Klendau II]

Originally posted by Baco
It won't annoy any1....make the suffle at tick 36 and annoy all those account swappers around!!
That was the most wise decision u guys made in round 8, I hope u make it again!
Thx!

PS - 36 ticks r more than enough to sort anything!! And it happen before with good results!!

Shut up.

[Whis]

Originally posted by A2
Not shuffling basically says "well done, you've abused the system and won" to the offending galaxies.

True words. A shuffle is the right thing to do and it could also be used to make the galaxies more even & inactives deleted. It may be a short term pain but everyone will benefit in the long run.

[ComradeRob]

Originally posted by Whis
True words. A shuffle is the right thing to do and it could also be used to make the galaxies more even & inactives deleted. It may be a short term pain but everyone will benefit in the long run.

Except for the newbies who won't be able to get into a working para alliance within 36 ticks.

A2 talks about rewaring account-swappers, but is it really fair to punish the entire universe (with the newbies suffering most of all) because of the actions of a tiny minority?

[Klendau II]

Originally posted by ComradeRob
but is it really fair to punish the entire universe (with the newbies suffering most of all) because of the actions of a tiny minority?

Listen to the man, he speaks the truth \o/

[Whis]

Originally posted by ComradeRob
Except for the newbies who won't be able to get into a working para alliance within 36 ticks.

I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Besides this isn't just about accountswapping. Galaxy sizes still vary anywhere from 13 to 23 in many clusters, there's inactives that could do with deleting, etc. Plus if there is no shuffle your precious newbies are gonna suffer anyway at the hand of those groups of accountswappers that got away with it. As it stands now with no shuffle a large part of the universe will suffer because of all the above (only the cheaters or those few who got lucky to end up in a good & full galaxy will benefit).

[SpazMonster]

I really don't see the problem. I personally don't want a shuffle, but if that's the decision, that's the decision. Don't blame PA crew for people abusing the system. Blame the people abusing the system. If they do reshuffle I hope they wait till monday or tuesday so all the free accounts have had a chance to be activated and the galaxies have a chance to fill up. They can just delay tick start a day or 2 or 3. It wouldn't be a big deal.

[isildurx]

DONT DELAY TICKSTART (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((