Xandathrii fleet

Any tips on fleet composition for the Xandathrii race?

[Gerbie]

Build lots of fi's and co.

[Ultimate Newbie]

hey, that's what i'm doing

[Sizzla]

and why build fighters and corvettes? are they the cheapest for every 100 ships they kill ?

[Ultimate Newbie]

Yes and no.

1) they are fast - so when you attack its far more difficult for a defender to get help from his/her alliance. Less defence = greater chance of successful attack.
2) They are fast - so defending allies is easier as you have a longer window of opportunity to launch some help
3) they arent too bad at killing and their armour isnt too bad for Xandatrhii.
4) having all your attacking ships in 1 class makes it alot harder to kill and/or subvert you - as each unit provides flak for the other.

but the main advantages are in the ETA.

[jerome]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

Yes and no.

1) they are fast - so when you attack its far more difficult for a defender to get help from his/her alliance. Less defence = greater chance of successful attack.
2) They are fast - so defending allies is easier as you have a longer window of opportunity to launch some help
3) they arent too bad at killing and their armour isnt too bad for Xandatrhii.
4) having all your attacking ships in 1 class makes it alot harder to kill and/or subvert you - as each unit provides flak for the other.

but the main advantages are in the ETA.

1] - true
2] - so you aren`t going to be building bolts and bombers which`ll be very important in this round?
3] - true but the armour in general for xand is a bloody joke :/
5] - even though that`s true, it still takes the same x amount of def to make the roids your going to cap overly expensive, killing everything is just a bonus, although apparently, these days pa is filled with people who land no matter what anyway :/. Furthermore, you`re limiting your range of targets by using 1 roidfleet.

[Ferretus]

Xan biggest advantage is the equal costs and not have to worry about trading with the fund and losing cash.
Also they can target every ship by only building up to Medium class vessels, I don't think any other race can do that. So you basically build lots of Fighters/Corvettes/Frigates and a token group of other ships for more effective defence.

[Shaithess]

I'd have to say that it seems broadswords are going to be vital defensive ships... their initiative 3 means they shoot before cutters (And also get their shots off against cathaar ships), which in turn gives your lancers time to shoot any zik CO heading your way. Atm my fleet is:

Vsharrak Fighter 1000 Daeraith Pulsar 2700
Lyvidian Sentinel 1000 Culdassa Arrowhead 400
Andvordian Bomber 100 Tzen Bolt Thrower 125
Hysperian Lancer 75 Dagger 1500

I'm probably going to halt construction of arrowheads, and am definitely stopping building vsh now. Also, I doubt I'll eventually get round to building a particularly great number of fireblades either. Atm my main attack tactic is simply the pulsar/sentinel/dagger raid on terrans, though later in the round I should have some sabres to try slightly more interesting tactics out

Though, to be fair, it seems that xans only really stand a chance of hitting terrans successfully at all :/

[Mek]

ya can never have enuf vsharrack's...

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

1] - true
2] - so you aren`t going to be building bolts and bombers which`ll be very important in this round?
3] - true but the armour in general for xand is a bloody joke :/
5] - even though that`s true, it still takes the same x amount of def to make the roids your going to cap overly expensive, killing everything is just a bonus, although apparently, these days pa is filled with people who land no matter what anyway :/. Furthermore, you`re limiting your range of targets by using 1 roidfleet.

2] Yes, i am building TBT to prevent BA ziks, though atm i'm seriously considering not building bombers - this way i'm open to CR attacks and thus i should only get Cath incoming . also, CR is fairly easy to defend against with other races. Or at least they seem to be.
3] I agree with you there.
5!?] Whilst that's true, most people have some stuff that will target FI, CO, FR, DE etc. So if you send a little bit of everything, more people are able to send those units - ie a greater %age of their fleet - to defend against you. If most players only have 20% of their resources against FI, they can only send 20% of their fleet against you. Better than sending 40%, which they would do if you also sent CO .

Mind you, i'm thinking about how to use a FR attack fleet now. FI losses are starting to become annoying :\

[jerome]

i meant 4] rather than 5] etc typo probably.

Cr attacks are hard to defend if there`s plenty of Widows, Scorpions, Tarants and Roaches present:)

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Shaithess

Though, to be fair, it seems that xans only really stand a chance of hitting terrans successfully at all :/

Without fake-fleet magic this is true.

Originally Posted by Mek

ya can never have enuf vsharrack's...

Vsh are useless against terran.

[General Martok]

He meant as defence against ziks probably. Though i prefer lancers for that (with broadswords to stop the cutters).

[Doorsdown]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

Build lots of fi's and co.

/me pets his cutlass's

[Shaithess]

Originally Posted by General Martok

He meant as defence against ziks probably. Though i prefer lancers for that (with broadswords to stop the cutters).

Indeed, the vsh sucks. Its terrible armour means that cutlass sub it extermely easily.

I can't wait to wheel out my broadswords to join my lancers, which would give me a decent chance against those damn ziks that keep attacking me

[Suggestionperso]

I have an unique suggestion: why can't a Xan player build Vsharrak Fighters, Pulsars, Andvordian Bombers, Tzen Bolt Throwes, Cryveli Broadswoard, and Dreadnoughts ONLY...thus, the vsharraks and pulsars won't have anything to target if they have been subverted...I realize a Zik with a corvette roiding fleet can easily steal roids, but they can't do any dmg to any of your ships or buildings this way! The other problem with my suggestion is if you have enough Broadswords to take out all your FRs, then the Zik player can send enough Pirates to destroy your entire FR (assuming you DON'T send away your fleet). Besides these two disadvangates, I believe it is a pretty strong offensive fleet (and with stealth/cloak ship capabilites)....for example, you can send Dreadnoughts, Andvordian Bombers, and Sabres to attack a Zik fleet. If the Zik do not have enough Pirates to subvert all ur Dreadnoughts, then the non-subverted dreadnoughts will destroy all his corsairs and he can't destroy any of your frigates; if the frigates are subverted, so what, they have nothing to target . Or someone can send two waves of attacks, the first wave consisting of nothing but a lot of broadswords and dreadnoughts (to take out all the corsairs) and the second wave, consisiting nothing but Andvordian Bombers, Tzen Bolt Throwers, and Sabres! (Keep in mind Ziks and Caths cannot destroy BS and CR ships, this can be used to the Xan's advantage.) Futhermore, this fleet has an init of 3 with the exception of the Andvordian Bombers and Tzen Bolt Throwers and the pods (which cannot be helped). Against Cath, you can send in two waves of ships: first wave: Dreadnoughts (to take out all their anti-fighters) and Cryveli Broadswoards (might as well do more dmg since Caths can't destroy BS and CR ships), second wave: Vsharrk fighters, Pulsars, and Daggers to maxmize dmg (and there is no anti-fighter left to do anything!). Against other Xans, just make sure you have enough Cryveli Broadswoards to take out all their frigates (and enough Dreadnoughts if you want to destroy all their fighters). Against Terrs, make sure you have lots and lots of Pulsars, FI roid ships, and vsharraks as well as Dreadnoughts (they probably don't have a lot of Gryphons, but massed destroyers instead). Another positive thing about this fleet is that it is an excellent alliance defending fleet due to its low init. However, I also do realize that the ETA time for the Cryveli Broadswoards and Dreadnoughts are high, but the cloaked advantage, should compensate for that! *This is all based on the assumptions that Terrs don't build too many harpies and gryphons, Caths don't build too many spiders, Ziks don't build too many corsairs, nobody defends this person, the person don't send his ships away, or the person doesn’t build a massive number of ships prior to your ships arriving there* I realize that are probably lots of flaws in my theory, so feel free to comment (and I wanted to provide an alternative prespective of the Xan fleet-basically it calls for an elimination of all Xan corvettes and destroyers and their inits are 4&5 respectivately, this greatly reduces what other races can target)!

[Linkie]

I haven't actually looked at the stats for this round but jugding by experience, I seriously doubt cloak advantage makes up for eta +1.

Even without knowing what you're sending it should be fairly easily to figure out that max eta contains bs/cr by looking at your own fleet.

Also it's a very huge waste using 2 fleets on one target for only one tick of roiding.

[Suggestionperso]

1) You don't have to send all your BS/CR fleet and can add some pod ships to confuse the enemy. For example, if you have 200 dreadnoughts, 200 broadsword, and 200 sabres and you send 200 ships to attack a Xan, they naturally assume you sent some sabres to steal their roids(but what if you sent 50 dreadnoughts and 150 broadswords for the sole purpose of destroying their ships instead of taking roids!). By assuming what your Xan attacker sends, the defender may pay a very heavy price for this. BTW, a Xan player should have a very diverse offensive fleet (to confuse the enemy) and have LOTS of wave distorters (21+ wave distorters MININUM!).
2) Using 2 fleets can really pay off if you manage to destroy ALOT of ships and gain lots of roids as well. (First fleet destroys the enemy and second fleet takes their roids, if done properly, your score will greatly increase!)

[Linkie]

What difference does it make if it's a few BS/CR or many BS/CR, you still end up with +1 eta.
And everyone expects pods, I doubt pods would at all be any good to cause 'confusion' (except for fake-podding, but that's besides this discussion)

Destroying fleets might be good in wars, but I'm quite confident most people involved in major wars are more than capable enough to sort out what ships to keep at home and what to send away, even if xan is cloaked or not. Jugding from your own fleet it's relatively simple to figure out what's coming your way as with these stats, there aren't that many different strategies to use.

[Suggestionperso]

Reread my thread, I made some changes. Also, please take a look at the rd. 12 ship stats before you make any further comments.

[Tis]

Originally Posted by Suggestionperso

your score will greatly increase!)

heh, actually, if it works, your score will increase significantly less than with a normal raid.... killing all his ships before you land lowers his value when you cap roids, hence less experience.

experience is good.

[Linkie]

Even after only a quick glance at the stats I can see that the changes aren't significant enough to change the basics of the game, so all my points still stands.
The only change after the super-overpowering of zik after they were already decent enough last round is that teaming with zik now opens new options if one person escorts you with defence ships.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Tis

heh, actually, if it works, your score will increase significantly less than with a normal raid.... killing all his ships before you land lowers his value when you cap roids, hence less experience.

experience is good.

Am I the only one seeing a problem here?

[General Martok]

Originally Posted by Jester

Am I the only one seeing a problem here?

You mean something silly as running fleet for killwave? (leaving behind only a few suicidal clippers to sub the pods ofc)

[Jester]

Originally Posted by General Martok

You mean something silly as running fleet for killwave? (leaving behind only a few suicidal clippers to sub the pods ofc)

Zik and especially Cathaar gain more XP than Terran and Xandathrii by design.

[General Martok]

Oh that... I was thinking in another direction apparently.