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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 12:52   #51
Kargool
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
That wasn't how alliance mergers were brought back though was it?
Nope, sadly the PA team just saw a good suggestion, and slaughtered it in the process as usual.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 12:54   #52
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Maybe, but you created an alliance or "Nihilium" aka "Hude's bootboys", they defended each others and attacked with eXilition, so in addition to having the defencebonus they attacked with eXi, pretty much being a support alliance.
I had TWO defence fleets from Nihi in total and I bet the others didn't get even that. I'm sure I didn't defend anyone at least. And I'm pretty sure the others didn't attack with eXilition. Couple of them started playing mid round and basically attacked for xp on random targets.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 12:56   #53
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
lol the merge is 6 persons.. look at numbers we are still only at around 60 peeps, while other allies had 80..
But you see, had those 80 all been counted in the score, you may not have won. I'm doing the calculations as I write this reply so the answer will be as shocking for you as it is for me!

BTW, I feel the need to say here that regardless of what the outcome is, this cannot really be trusted. I know that as someone not counted towards ND's score I decided not to attack after tick 500 and just send 3 defence fleets a day. Had my score counted I would have kept on trucking.

25535454 score difference between eX and ND at the end of the round.
15 members difference.

1702363 score difference per member.

Pre-end-round-suicide I was actually 1700k score.

Of course there were probably a few who kept going anyway and some who just completely quit. Given that I spent most of the round with less than 50 roids I'm going to assume I actually had alot less value than my colleagues and that I was nearer the bottom of the discounted members. As such I believe that ND would have still beaten you if all members were counted for score. I understand that your win was legal, and you were the only alliance that deserved it, and I do seriously applaud you for that.

Just stop saying you won with less members. Sure, you had less fleets, but for what actually counted on the day you had as many as we did.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 12:58   #54
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Re: Leadership

That's a stupid argument. They did what was required to win the round and that's it.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 12:59   #55
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
i cba discussing this with 1ups.. as u clearly feel now that we have overtaken u in rep and u need to drag us down by flaming our win (like u have done the other 3 times we have won aswell) when we had 3/3 wins against u .. u flamed our breaktimes and that it was to easy when taking a break.. and now we play 2 in a row and u flame us for merging (when it was 6 persons which was kept in another tag instead of as apps, which is basically the same as keeping 6 planets out of tag...)
U might be winning the AD battles(as most of us cba) but atleast we prove ourself where it really counts.. on the battlefield...
Actually I'd say that eXilition have had the public support for a few rounds now. I am anti-eXilition, I'm not going to deny that. I could go into why this is, but I won't. Maybe its partly 1up's arrogance, maybe its your good politics work, but over the last few rounds people have been more on eX's side than any other, at the end of the day I'm going to say due to fear.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:00   #56
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
That's a stupid argument. They did what was required to win the round and that's it.
That's a stupid reply as that wasn't my point. My point was that they fully deserved the win but not the right to say they did it with less players.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:01   #57
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid
(is whoever neg-repped me for saying Exi would probably win going to retract it?)
I also collected a couple of neg reps for claiming that eXi will win .o/
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
Saying that eXi were going to win when that thread came up was a meaningless prediction.
Why was it a meaningless prediction? eXilition had proved time and time again that their playerbase was superior to the rest of the universe, people believed that even with fewer players, eXilition still would be able to win.
When looking at eXilition's history, it sure made me think that they were going to win - they took round 14, 16 and 17 off because their players/HC were exhausted after winning a round and they'd never played without the intention of winning.
There was also the the factor that 1up fanboys's main argument for 1up being better than eXilition was the fact that eXi had never won back to back rounds, now eXi were playing back to back rounds and it was their chance to shut the fanboys up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
Consider that Cart and Mac were running the show and none of us had seen them running an alliance before.
I don't have the best of memories, but wasn't Mac one of the founders of eXi back in round 13? Also, if I'm not mistaken, Mac does/did some HCing in pia (I'm not sure about this) and Cartman appears to have had quite a bit of experience as HC, so it not really like having totally new HCs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
well if recruiting is keeping peeps out of tag and taking em in at a later stage then 1up has "recruited to win aswell" ... and Sid claiming he wouldnt do such is bs.. and tbh.. then most allies in pa nowadays are "recruiting to try to win" atleast
What is with the inconsistencies? First you claim that "you added out of tag players", it is then revealed that you merged with Nihilum and you claim that it was a merge due to eXilition players playing WoW with Nihilum (despite nobody in the Nihilum tag playing WoW as a Horde character on the Magtherion(sp?) server) and now you call them out of tag players again?
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:03   #58
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
That's a stupid reply as that wasn't my point. My point was that they fully deserved the win but not the right to say they did it with less players.
They did do it with less players. They had 63 and you had 78. The extra 45 fleets should have been used for the preservation of score of the top 60 members. If they weren't that was just stupid.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:04   #59
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Re: Leadership

He's not bragging about it and you're wrong anyway, if all members were counted for score eXilition would've won (I can't believe you're making this point). Like I said, eX's average score was much higher than the one you saw on Sandmans.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:11   #60
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
I also collected a couple of neg reps for claiming that eXi will win .o/

Why was it a meaningless prediction?
I've already explained that. If someone starts the eXilition tag in-game next round, you could just as well say it then but it wouldn't be a useful prediction. You don't base it on anything with meaning. eXilition didn't run politics based on what ND did two years ago, why should you?

Quote:
I don't have the best of memories, but wasn't Mac one of the founders of eXi back in round 13? Also, if I'm not mistaken, Mac does/did some HCing in pia (I'm not sure about this) and Cartman appears to have had quite a bit of experience as HC, so it not really like having totally new HCs
I have no idea what Mac did in PIA, I don't care either! This has been Cartman's first round as eXi HC. I'm not saying they were totally new, I'm saying you had no idea whether they could guide an alliance to win.

Quote:
What is with the inconsistencies? First you claim that "you added out of tag players", it is then revealed that you merged with Nihilum and you claim that it was a merge due to eXilition players playing WoW with Nihilum (despite nobody in the Nihilum tag playing WoW as a Horde character on the Magtherion(sp?) server) and now you call them out of tag players again?
Nihilum decided to join eXilition. What's the problem?
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:24   #61
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
What is with the inconsistencies? First you claim that "you added out of tag players", it is then revealed that you merged with Nihilum and you claim that it was a merge due to eXilition players playing WoW with Nihilum (despite nobody in the Nihilum tag playing WoW as a Horde character on the Magtherion(sp?) server) and now you call them out of tag players again?

I posted about that before.. I see the merge as the same as adding 6 peeps from out of tag... go learn to read and understand things before u jump to conclusions.. and i never said anythin about the WoW guild..
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:29   #62
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc

Nihilum decided to join eXilition. What's the problem?
Regardless of whether you I or him define 6 players as a problem, you've got this. A 'tag' is an 'alliance' because that's how the game defines it. By merging 'tags' you loophole past the scoring mechanism for recruiting players which was designed to stop alliances recruiting to a higher rank. If you object to the FO merger because of that, you can thus logically oppose this, because the loopholes haven't been covered enough.

It is within the rules, but that doesn't mean people have to like it either. I am not against alliance mergers per se, but I am against them being allowed beyond the first half of the round having elapsed as that is tantamount to recruiting for end of round rank. I accept them, but I do not agree with them and think that it should be changed. Let me state, this round it was not unfair because that's how the game said it should be - but I think it should be seen as unfair in future.

His main problem is that exilition (Cartman specifically) have gone on about 'adding players out of tag' when this has been spin, going on all out lie because the game does not define nihilum as 'out of tag' it defines them as an alliance and thus it was not 'adding people out of tag' it was a 'merger'. How you see it (adding people out of tag) or others might see it (unfairly merging to gain score/rank) this is the logic of the game and how it is defined. The game makes these definitions, not you, I or anyone else for that matter.
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Last edited by lokken; 10 Dec 2006 at 13:34.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:32   #63
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Re: Leadership

tags with less than 10 players are not really concidered alliances... and tbh even the ally hc chan has a limit of like 30 or so to be called an alliance worthy of being in that chan
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:35   #64
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
tags with less than 10 players are not really concidered alliances... and tbh even the ally hc chan has a limit of like 30 or so to be called an alliance worthy of being in that chan
But the game defines them as that so they are.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:37   #65
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
tags with less than 10 players are not really concidered alliances
Strictly speaking, yes they are. To join that tag in-game, you have to click 'join alliance'. Alliance.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:42   #66
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
I've already explained that. If someone starts the eXilition tag in-game next round, you could just as well say it then but it wouldn't be a useful prediction. You don't base it on anything with meaning. eXilition didn't run politics based on what ND did two years ago, why should you?
There's a difference between starting a tag next round when you guys have announced that you won't play and the way you guys played this round. You said that you'd be playing with a "small core" which was around 30 people, knowing that you were likely to recruit etc, and knowing that your core consists of good players, I predicted that you would win.
Making predictions based on your past performances is totally just because your players had proven to be competent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
I have no idea what Mac did in PIA, I don't care either! This has been Cartman's first round as eXi HC. I'm not saying they were totally new, I'm saying you had no idea whether they could guide an alliance to win.
Mac founded eXi in round 13, he was HC when they won their first round.
As you said at the R18 EORC, eXilition were playing without making many political decisions, so the HC just had to deal wiht internal affairs/tech stuff etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
Nihilum decided to join eXilition. What's the problem?
The problem is the fact that the 6 players in the Nihilum tag were, in fact, eXilition players who were planning to merge into eXilition. One of your past HCs has stated that this merge wasn't for ranks but due to eXilition's links to Nihilum in WoW, which is a pile of shite.


Way to avoid my questions/points btw.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:42   #67
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Re: Leadership

ahh well in any case i dont see keeping 6 planets in another tag then taking the tag in any different than keeping 6 planets out of tag.. its the same use.. to hide score.. somethin that most concider a valid tactic as almost all allies hide score..
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:45   #68
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
I posted about that before.. I see the merge as the same as adding 6 peeps from out of tag... go learn to read and understand things before u jump to conclusions.. and i never said anythin about the WoW guild..
you didn't
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:45   #69
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
There's a difference between starting a tag next round when you guys have announced that you won't play and the way you guys played this round. You said that you'd be playing with a "small core" which was around 30 people, knowing that you were likely to recruit etc, and knowing that your core consists of good players, I predicted that you would win.
Making predictions based on your past performances is totally just because your players had proven to be competent.

The problem is the fact that the 6 players in the Nihilum tag were, in fact, eXilition players who were planning to merge into eXilition. One of your past HCs has stated that this merge wasn't for ranks but due to eXilition's links to Nihilum in WoW, which is a pile of shite.


Way to avoid my questions/points btw.
we clearly said we ment to play this as a break round.. and to prepare for next round ( which ofc is taking some in and testing to see if they fit eX).. then abit out in the round.. alot came back wanting to play.. and some of us had more time so we changed our goals abit.. that is allowed last time i checked

the merge was a way to hide score.. something that must be concidered valid as most others hide value....
and about the wow shit.. im pretty sure he was just kidding around.. its kinda obvious.. not our fault u dont understand a joke
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:52   #70
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
we clearly said we ment to play this as a break round.. and to prepare for next round ( which ofc is taking some in and testing to see if they fit eX).. then abit out in the round.. alot came back wanting to play.. and some of us had more time so we changed our goals abit.. that is allowed last time i checked
Woah, I said nothign about it not being allowed, I merely stated that the predictions at the start of the round were valid seeing as bwtmc is claiming that they were unfounded assumptions, I stated my argument for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
the merge was a way to hide score.. something that must be concidered valid as most others hide value....
Yeah, hiding score is valid, but if you guys didn't intend on winning the round, why were you hiding score?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
and about the wow shit.. im pretty sure he was just kidding around.. its kinda obvious.. not our fault u dont understand a joke
It didn't look like a joke, it seemed to be a piece of propaganda so that you guys could pretend that you weren't trying to merge in order to win. This is also, coincidentially, the reason for you guys trying to hide the merge by saying that you were adding out of tag members, afterall, slating FO for their merge just before merging would be hypocritical wouldn't it?
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:54   #71
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Re: Leadership

at THAT time they were unfounded..well u had every intention to belive so.. but we had no intention to win.. so np...

we changed our goals and then made up that tactic to hide score... it all happened around mid round

and it was a joke...
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:56   #72
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
at THAT time they were unfounded..well u had every intention to belive so.. but we had no intention to win.. so np...
Please go and read my post, it doesn't take very long to scroll up, and you will see why I, and others, believed that eXilition were able to win.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 13:58   #73
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Re: Leadership

cba :P at uni reading for exams
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 14:00   #74
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Re: Leadership

Kila owning someone on AD.. What has this world come to
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 14:03   #75
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Kila owning someone on AD.. What has this world come to
owning who? if ur referring to me then its simply because i got better stuff to do than sit and argue about somethin that is history.. it happened and it is done.. nothing can be changed anyway so I gain nothin about arguing on.. think I gain more from reading up on that boring shit I have exam in tomorrow
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 14:17   #76
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
There's a difference between starting a tag next round when you guys have announced that you won't play and the way you guys played this round. You said that you'd be playing with a "small core" which was around 30 people, knowing that you were likely to recruit etc, and knowing that your core consists of good players, I predicted that you would win.
Making predictions based on your past performances is totally just because your players had proven to be competent.
You didn't know anything. You still don't know anything. You don't have a clue what eXilition's "core" is, even I don't. Players move all over the place and more than ever before did for R19 because we'd set our sights lower. It doesn't make a difference what an alliance is telling you. For all you know eXilition will win Round 20. You don't know! Your prediction was ridiculous.

Quote:
Mac founded eXi in round 13, he was HC when they won their first round.
As you said at the R18 EORC, eXilition were playing without making many political decisions, so the HC just had to deal wiht internal affairs/tech stuff etc.
He was one of four HCs, my understanding has always been that it was run similar to R15. And he hasn't played planetarion since. You're Mac's biggest fan if you think that means he was destined to bring a victory six rounds later.

Kaifux and myself were the only members of the command making those decisions in R18.

Quote:
The problem is the fact that the 6 players in the Nihilum tag were, in fact, eXilition players who were planning to merge into eXilition. One of your past HCs has stated that this merge wasn't for ranks but due to eXilition's links to Nihilum in WoW, which is a pile of shite.
What? NitinA and Cartman probably don't have a great idea what Nihilum is about and neither do you. The alliances merged because they wanted to play together. You're best idea of what the alliance is/was is from what I tell you. If you'd taken notice of the alliance during the round you'd have noticed about 12 players played in the tag at different times and half of them had never played Planetarion before, two of the new players ended up in eXilition and they were friends from WoW.

edit: if you want to bore me further, do it in pm, this has nothing to do with the topic.
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 14:55   #77
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Re: Leadership

Right, PM it is then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Kila owning someone on AD.. What has this world come to
Kargool not being shit at everything... what has this world come to























oh wait...

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Unread 11 Dec 2006, 11:05   #78
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Re: Leadership

I dont get it Kila, You've known shit about anything all round but now when you're in the winning gal (which you clearly didnt have ANY impact on) you act like you're the man... You were just a tool for the Asc guys and something to laugh about. Nothing more!
Remember when Jer/JBG (and myself in a tiny bit) told you what Nihilum was about and how you took it for granted?
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Unread 11 Dec 2006, 11:26   #79
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Re: Leadership

I don't think there is a major problem with eXilition merging. I doubt it would make all that much difference. eXilition probably would have won without the merge.

At the end of the day it is not eXilition merging that ensured the victory. It was the complete and utter disregard of them from tick 72. When they made it clear they were going for the win, it was not there fault. It was alliances and people (much like myself) who didn't do a great lot to stop it.

You can't blame eXilition, for yourselves being shit at hitting them.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 00:12   #80
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman
tags with less than 10 players are not really concidered alliances... and tbh even the ally hc chan has a limit of like 30 or so to be called an alliance worthy of being in that chan
The funniest part with this thing is tho.

Before the round started, after alliance mergers was announced.

NewDawn hadd a plan on making 4-5 small alliance's and merge later on. Because the system would allow that.
It was my idea, I didn't like my idea. Talked to pa team about it.
And I was told it couldn't be done, it would be counted as cheating and nothing like this should happend.

But cartman, you have apparantly other rules than ND. and that apparantly payed off.

As I see it, you just added support planets, wich aint allowed.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 00:24   #81
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Re: Leadership

how would they be support alliances if even with them included the total membercount wasn't 60(excluding midrnd recruits)
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 00:28   #82
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Re: Leadership

seems to me that if 1 alliance finds a way around the game rules then they are accused of cheating but only because they thought of it first (or implemented it 1st)
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 01:02   #83
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
seems to me that if 1 alliance finds a way around the game rules then they are accused of cheating but only because they thought of it first (or implemented it 1st)
If your going around the game rules you are cheating.

That said I dont see any of this merging stuff as going around the game rules.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 01:07   #84
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Re: Leadership

tbh i meant finding a way to improve ur chances with a way thats yet to be added to the eula etc
an example would be the support planet rule , before it was implemented aliances used this feature within the game
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 08:03   #85
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Re: Leadership

i for myself (even if most peeps dun care) think that the "merge" or "adding peeps out of tag" had really not much to do with exi winning the round... fo merged together to fight again for the #1 spot which they lost... again!
exi just brought 6 peeps into their tag which i think didnt make that much change (thats just my opinion)!
still i think fo and nd did the worse part about it as fo "merged" to shit not really a #1 contender and nd betraying their allies which brought em to their #2 spot.
so why is everyone blaming exi yes maybe they did some mistakes or whatever but they werent alone
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 08:27   #86
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritfire
NewDawn hadd a plan on making 4-5 small alliance's and merge later on. Because the system would allow that.
It was my idea, I didn't like my idea. Talked to pa team about it.
And I was told it couldn't be done, it would be counted as cheating and nothing like this should happend.

But cartman, you have apparantly other rules than ND. and that apparantly payed off.
eXilition didn't have a plan on making 1 (one) small alliance and merge later on. The Nihilum tag was created midround and it had several players that didn't even sign up at the start.

Wow, different rules indeed.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 12:06   #87
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scream
i for myself (even if most peeps dun care) think that the "merge" or "adding peeps out of tag" had really not much to do with exi winning the round... fo merged together to fight again for the #1 spot which they lost... again!
exi just brought 6 peeps into their tag which i think didnt make that much change (thats just my opinion)!
It added 20-30 million score to their tag, taking them from 3rd and nearly level with ND/FO to way out in front. I'd say that made a hell of a change.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 12:15   #88
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
It added 20-30 million score to their tag, taking them from 3rd and nearly level with ND/FO to way out in front. I'd say that made a hell of a change.
12 million to be precise.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 12:28   #89
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
12 million to be precise.
This number may be correct. Nihilum was 13.6m score on the last tick it existed.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 12:37   #90
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Re: Leadership

With Sandmans now closed and Pilkara not showing extensive histories, I had to guess. I'd still class 13.6m score as substantial.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 13:13   #91
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Re: Leadership

I'm curious about Nihilum.

Who's in it? Is it all new players? Or is it mostly PA players who've brought a few friends from WoW into PA? Will they be playing next round as Nihilum, or are they moving into other alliances?

I'm mainly asking because I know a couple of Nihilum out of PA, and I found it weird seeing their name here. A bit like when you see someone from university wandering around your hometown, or something.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 17:32   #92
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I'm curious about Nihilum.

Who's in it? Is it all new players? Or is it mostly PA players who've brought a few friends from WoW into PA? Will they be playing next round as Nihilum, or are they moving into other alliances?

I'm mainly asking because I know a couple of Nihilum out of PA, and I found it weird seeing their name here. A bit like when you see someone from university wandering around your hometown, or something.
I know Hude was in the tag, and apparantely he hates WoW, so I doubt the tag was actual Nihilum WoW players.
NitinA said that they were, but Cartman has stated that it was "a joke", so its safe to assume that they are just regular eXilition players who have played with eXi before and played in Nihilum.
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Unread 12 Dec 2006, 18:03   #93
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Re: Leadership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I'm curious about Nihilum.

Who's in it? Is it all new players? Or is it mostly PA players who've brought a few friends from WoW into PA? Will they be playing next round as Nihilum, or are they moving into other alliances?

I'm mainly asking because I know a couple of Nihilum out of PA, and I found it weird seeing their name here. A bit like when you see someone from university wandering around your hometown, or something.
liz, hude etc were in it, mostly people who signed up late iirc
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