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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 12:37   #51
AndroX
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
I personally do not see a huge problem with all this. I might be responsible for a part as i suggested quite an increase in the effectiveness of the covert op government. I think its a good thing, as covert ops in the past were quite useless and weak. The increase of the stealth and alert bonus from Dictatorship would make covert ops a more viable way of playing compared to the normal combat (and i'm in favour of having more ways to play the game than just the combat thing), while at the same time making it a choice that can somewhat compete with the advantages of the other governments (more income/lower ship cost). This may be the first round where covert ops is actually a nice option, and despite me not using them and being annoyed by their use on my planet, i think that it is good.

But this doesn't really change the fact that covert ops are quite impossible to balance in PA (in their current form). I think the 0 roid cov op planets prove that it is a problem that there are no limits to who you can hit with covert ops, and that the damage is always maxed out when you get through. It might be better if in the future covert op damage would be decided on relative value/score between involved planets combined with the security/stealth/agents ratings. I.e. max damage up to double and half your own value/score, and after that the damage decreases (somewhat of a dynamic bash limit). Next to that security settings, although not preventing the hit, might decrease the damage. As currently its insane that tiny planets are able to hit the biggest planets without any worry whatsoever. Perhaps trained agents (like ships) that need to be recruited and can be killed aswell might balance this out better, but that would require alot of recoding :-).

The idea to up covert ops I can understand. But covops wasnt part of the original idea from planetarion in the first place. The game was meant to attack (and defend) eachother with ships. Steal asteroids. To make covoppig this powerful you take away the actual intentions of the game. (except for people that stopped playing the game for what it was about and only covop people as they dont know how to play the game as it was meant to be played - but thats another issue and is completely offtopic here).
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 12:40   #52
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
60 agents can only (or 'only') kill 4 amps and 4 dists, fyi. Also, you've dont nothing but build constructions during those 108 ticks? No research, no initing, no roiding? "Wasted" is an exaggeration.
It was merly an example to address things - yes the max for 60 agents is 4+4.
Imagine what the construction covop can do lateron..... should be fun - I already forsee a downtime from planetarion in the future
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 12:43   #53
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
And spent my time arguing with people like you? No thanks. My problem is with the existence of alliance limits at all. The actual extent to which various people think they should exist is just so much pointlessness to me.
I guess you havent noticed that i've currently suggesting to increase the alliancelimits.

In one way i agree with you, having alliances is getting more and more difficult because less and less people seem willing to put up an effort for the alliance. But removing them totally is also a failure because people want to play in alliances. Ergo, the lowest limit possible to make it less work for the few who are still willing to become and officer in an alliance.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 12:56   #54
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I guess you havent noticed that i've currently suggesting to increase the alliancelimits.

In one way i agree with you, having alliances is getting more and more difficult because less and less people seem willing to put up an effort for the alliance. But removing them totally is also a failure because people want to play in alliances. Ergo, the lowest limit possible to make it less work for the few who are still willing to become and officer in an alliance.
You two get another thread
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 13:13   #55
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Re: Cov Ops

You forgot to build security centers and up your security population and they got your amps hammered or what's tickling in your th0ng CBA?
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 13:19   #56
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Re: Cov Ops

dec sux for trying to make me read this.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 13:26   #57
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'd far rather ensure everyone who wants to play the ascendancy way will get to. Frankly I imagine this probably keeps more players in the game.
Definately. I have no problem whatsoever with what *scendancy are doing this round, hell, I'm not in Descendancy for nothing. I'm not arguing for preservation of the alliance limit, as my stance concerning that issue is exactly the same as yours. I'm just saying it would be easier (and thus more likely) to achieve when you do it in small steps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Anyways as I said I genuinely wouldn't enjoy having to argue for this. It's far easier to let history prove me right or wrong. A lot of people seem to want to play a different game to me anyways so I really don't see the point in arguing with them. We have a fundamentally different paradigmatic approach.
The question is, what is the price to pay when history proves you right, when there is no more PA to speak of, when no one is left. Will you take great pleasure in announcing "I was right!" to the world at large, when no one cares to listen any more? I respect your unwillingness to discuss this, but if your goal is removal of the alliance limit, it's in your best interest to push that unwillingness to the side. If your goal is to be right, no matter the cost, your approach is best.
I think you're right, we do have a different approach here, because although our opinions are the same, it seems our goals are not.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 13:26   #58
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinoa
Achillies , Tomkat stop the propaganda :P
Please dude, my post was more transparent than glass. It's obviously "us", at least if one follows the standard PA paradigm of blaming the many for the sins of the few.

As regards the *scendancy issue. It's out there, it's public, no-one is trying to hide anything. If you want to deal with it, do so. If you just want to cry about it you can do that too. Just don't expect everything to be the way it was before. It seems that, for better or worse, my alliance has the most (only?) people willing to take each round as it comes and to devise the best strategies to bring into said round. No-one wants to ruin anything, we just play what we're given while everyone else plays like it's still R14.

edit: A little off topic but in the same vein of discussion. Before this round started, at around the same time that Dec/mz said they were creating a cov op group, myself and others decided to lead SK groups. Stats investigation showed several race combos that would allow us to SK with great ease on teamups. We had 10 planets about to be arranged into 2 BP's before SK's were nerfed with only days to tickstart. We had to adjust, as do others now. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

Last edited by Achilles; 29 Jun 2007 at 13:38.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 13:47   #59
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Re: Cov Ops

To be fair PA team do have a damn hard job when every round alliances are looking to somehow exploit the game rules, or find a "legal loophole" (which is a load of crap thing to say as its not a loophole, its a way to play the game) to be the best.

I don't like the way Descendancy have done it, I think its crappy and yeah i agree that it may drive players away, but i do admire it a lot, and its a very good tactic which could very quickly put 16.2 to #1 gal, and should give one of them #1 planet easily if they keep putting 25mil of each into there production queues. The thing with that is though that the gal fund is effectively there to encourage trading of resources, and the donations were aimed to donate to new players to help them grow big, not for tactical use to get a number 1 planet. I hoped PA team would have learnt, next round i suppose they'll have to put a limit on it that a planet over say 200 ticks old cannot get a donation or something. Dunno what i'll do after my inevitable crash then :P
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 13:55   #60
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Changelog
-25,000,000 resources in any 200 tick period is the maximum donation limit to a planet in galaxy
Maximum donation has been seriously limited. What you are suggesting is not possible. You are just another example of someone who doesn't bother to update themselves on how to actually play well and yet still has the temerity to venture ill-informed opinions. Thank you for helping to prove my point so succintly.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 13:57   #61
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Re: Cov Ops

Back on the immunity. I indeed made some miscalculations. I've corrected my post.

Immunity from Black Out options:
Dictatorship + 49% Guards + 10% Centers = 20% + 50% + 20% = 89%
Dictatorship + 9% Guards + 30% Centers = 20% + 9% + 60% = 89%
49% Guards + 20% Centers = 49% + 40% = 89%
29% Guards + 30% Centers = 29% + 60% = 89%

Total Immunity requires 96% bonus (36% Guards + 30% Centers or 50% Guards + 23% Centers)
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 13:57   #62
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Re: Cov Ops

Very true, apologies. Im wrong, hit me with the neg reps!
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:14   #63
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Re: Cov Ops

The only real problem I see here is the fact that this wasn't informed of well enough. In fact, the efficiency of covert operations struck me by surprise, and I'm often the person a lot of people turn to when they have questions regarding game mechanics. Granted, I have been paying a little less than my usual attention during the round and before it.

It's is announced on the changelog, but for example the thread Appocomaster made regarding round 22 doesn't go into any level of explaining or mentioning the changes. Ignorant idiots like myself who relied on the given post regarding the mechanical changes of the round haven't been aware of the natural, easy reaction to the problem - more security centers, more population to security, and it's solved. Really, nothing stranger. I've myself started working on the security centers since I realized the issue, and if I had realized it pre-round, I would have started on even earlier. I only learned the real efficiency changes after dopec recently explained it to me.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:14   #64
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroX
The idea to up covert ops I can understand. But covops wasnt part of the original idea from planetarion in the first place. The game was meant to attack (and defend) eachother with ships. Steal asteroids. To make covoppig this powerful you take away the actual intentions of the game. (except for people that stopped playing the game for what it was about and only covop people as they dont know how to play the game as it was meant to be played - but thats another issue and is completely offtopic here).
If that is your argument I'd say PA left it's original idea when it left 3-tick attacks and expanded with more races...
Now, sadly this is called developement and is essential for any game (or company for that matter) to survive. If you do not develop and expand everything dies, quite simple. I have to say that until now I have not seen a point to the cov-op part of PA at all, now I do see a point to it and it makes me giggle every time I look at this thread, and even more when I sat back the research on the crackhead trying to attack my gal m8t
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:18   #65
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I guess you havent noticed that i've currently suggesting to increase the alliancelimits.
But by your own admission pre-round you were opposed.

Quote:
Ergo, the lowest limit possible to make it less work for the few who are still willing to become and officer in an alliance.
Welcome to burnout. Population most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mz
The question is, what is the price to pay when history proves you right, when there is no more PA to speak of, when no one is left. Will you take great pleasure in announcing "I was right!" to the world at large, when no one cares to listen any more? I respect your unwillingness to discuss this, but if your goal is removal of the alliance limit, it's in your best interest to push that unwillingness to the side. If your goal is to be right, no matter the cost, your approach is best.
I think you're right, we do have a different approach here, because although our opinions are the same, it seems our goals are not.
This explains my feelings on the issue rather well.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:37   #66
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Re: Cov Ops

So if Descendancy isnt cooperation with Ascendancy then why on earth target competing alliances of Ascendancy for covops?

Its quite clear that a larger part of the Desendancy tagged members has gone covop / scanner and its just as clear that they are in fact working on behalf of thier friends in Asc.

And what on earth would Decendancy get out of making a load of 0 roid planets depending on donations from alliance (and thats why you JBG isnt a 0 roider isnt it when all comes down to the basics)?
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:40   #67
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
...Just don't expect everything to be the way it was before. It seems that, for better or worse, my alliance has the most (only?) people willing to take each round as it comes and to devise the best strategies to bring into said round. No-one wants to ruin anything, we just play what we're given while everyone else plays like it's still R14.
.
Lol here i thought Greenhills had the best strategy for last round
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:43   #68
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
So if Descendancy isnt cooperation with Ascendancy then why on earth target competing alliances of Ascendancy for covops?

Its quite clear that a larger part of the Desendancy tagged members has gone covop / scanner and its just as clear that they are in fact working on behalf of thier friends in Asc.
Even if they are, does that matter? In the past there has never been intervention from PaTeam when it comes to (offensive) coorperation between alliances. Every round tags/alliances team up to target a common enemy, this is (imo) exactly the same thing, with the only difference perhaps that the involved players are working more closely together.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:48   #69
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Re: Cov Ops

If MH doesnt ban and dissolve Descendancy on these grounds they better erase _all_ parts of the support planet rules as they will no longer count for the bits they take up.

And ofcause its not the same - its clearly Asc split into 2 tags where as strangely enough all the covop and scanners guy almost only under the 1 tag - so the rest can contribute maximum score to the Asc tag.

Its a well organised breach of the alliance limit rules and it should be stopped instantly.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:53   #70
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
So if Descendancy isnt cooperation with Ascendancy then why on earth target competing alliances of Ascendancy for covops?

Its quite clear that a larger part of the Desendancy tagged members has gone covop / scanner and its just as clear that they are in fact working on behalf of thier friends in Asc.

And what on earth would Decendancy get out of making a load of 0 roid planets depending on donations from alliance (and thats why you JBG isnt a 0 roider isnt it when all comes down to the basics)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Did you even read my post, or did you just not bother, preferring to troll a bit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
The issue was presented to the multihunters by JBG, and we got the green light, that's all I care about.
Furthermore, you're so misinformed it hurts. Stop embarrassing yourself by posting in this thread.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 14:59   #71
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Re: Cov Ops

yeah jbg said you woulndt atk or defend together - but scanning and covopping is also a breach of the alliance limit rule.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 15:25   #72
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Re: Cov Ops

The support planet rule should just as well be trashed


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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 15:35   #73
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
So if Descendancy isnt cooperation with Ascendancy then why on earth target competing alliances of Ascendancy for covops?
We are co-operating. We're not supporting. It's a two way thing my man.

Quote:
Its quite clear that a larger part of the Desendancy tagged members has gone covop / scanner and its just as clear that they are in fact working on behalf of thier friends in Asc.
That's because we're more innovative than those useless ascendancy ****s. One-dimensional idiots the lot of them! Again we're not working for anyone. We happen to be working together, something I made clear to the MH at the start of this round would happen and something I have never denied.

Quote:
And what on earth would Decendancy get out of making a load of 0 roid planets depending on donations from alliance (and thats why you JBG isnt a 0 roider isnt it when all comes down to the basics)?
Wait, are you saying I'm donating resources to the 0 roid planets? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Quote:
yeah jbg said you woulndt atk or defend together - but scanning and covopping is also a breach of the alliance limit rule.
No, we attack together as well. Those of us that have ships I mean!



PS Still laughing.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 15:49   #74
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Lol here i thought Greenhills had the best strategy for last round
It wasn't even his idea you ignoramus. Looking over your posts in this thread a great quote came to mind:

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Einstein
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 17:20   #75
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Re: Cov Ops

Someone said... "I did a few calculations about the cov-ops myself, but didnt see the goverment loophole so the cov-ops was infact even worse than I thought. But again, its fully legal, just nobody else than ur merry band that thought about it.

I do question though the creation of planets built for solely destroy others fun in the round, but I guess since everybody can do it its fully allowed yet sadly despicable."


There have been plenty of people before these to use cov ops as a strategy (you should keep an eye on the cov ops t100), it's just that no alliance (afaik?) has taken it so seriously before, usually dismissing cov ops as rubbish (n00bs). However, take a little time to look at it's effectiveness even in previous rounds and you'll see what a useful tool this is, especially for single players (non-allied).

It's about time there was something that the little(r) people can use to hit back at these alliances which make the game so much 'fun' and really encourage people to stay playing by bashing planets into oblivion without any possible way of attacking back. Let's make everyone happy and ban cov ops *and* alliances. Then we'll see who can play by skill and intelligence, not by idling in some channel with 59 other people deciding who to gang bang next.

Or slightly more seriously, restrict alliance tagged planets to attacking other ally tagged planets? See if you can all go around bashing planets when there's another 59 people backing up your target. OR simply accept that alliances will go around bashing planets, and now these planets can hit back with something that also hurts back.

The funny thing is the people against cov ops seem to be against the idea that if you have a lot of value (res/cons) you should protect it?! You all build ships to protect your roids, why don't you build Sec Centres or change your pop settings? Do you people leave you cash and valuables on your doorstep each night and hope it's there in the morning?!

As an extra penny on alliance limits - reduce them. Smaller alliances will create a few more allies that have quality players and make the battle for #1 more interesting. There is absolutely no reason to increase the limit but if they ever are lifted, would all old (R3-5) Legion players mail me and we shall revive Legion Perhaps when people are reminded that an uncapped ally usually means total domination by someone they might change there minds?! Ally limits are essential to stop the top 200 players joining together to prevent the remaining thousands from getting anywhere. It's only really great to play if your in that top 200 which isn't good for the game.

/me leaves thruppence on the side.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 17:32   #76
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Re: Cov Ops

*Additional*

Whilst thinking of a way that these planets could be stopped, it occurred to me that although difficult (depending on settings), it is not impossible.

Underground Network Charting
Enables: Network Charting - This lets you hack into covert-ops databases to reveal contact networks.
Note: This lowers the stealth of the target planet.

Fight fire with fire and cov op them back reducing their stealth. No stealth = no cov opping...
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 17:37   #77
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Re: Cov Ops

This won't work as any cov-op planet worth his salt is immune to even 5 agent cov ops. Thus it would be impossible to succeed with your cov-op to stop them cov-opping.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 18:02   #78
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Re: Cov Ops

I returned to this game last round, after being away for five years. Signed up a free planet, upgraded it when i saw that the game was fun, but regretted that i hadn't read the manual good enough to avoid a number of pretty silly mistakes. Round was overall good though, nice gal-mates and good gal-result even though my planet wasn't among the biggest.

This round I read the manual and the changes thoroughly (including formulaes), and chose dictatorship despite the +5% production cost. I do cov-ops, and i like it. For those who picked other governments, they should take this as a challenge. I find it hilarious that people who complained about stockpiling last round, don't at least acknowledge that this practice will be changed now.

With respect to 16:2 (i'm not there), my prediction would be that they will keep resourcs in production for as long as it takes, and then split up and exile themselves into some other galaxies close to the rounds end, to give one allianc top 5 galaxies in this round.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 18:21   #79
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Re: Cov Ops

So lets reinstate Zik as super FC class again.

If we can ruin peoples fun with covops and "alternative play" lets make zik FC super class again like R19. (or wasnt the reason ziks got nerfed to stop the funkilling like fleet catches?)

Disinformation and ridicule wont change the fact your cheating tards.

The alliance limit is there for a reason - Its to keep an even playing field to rank alliances, without the alliance limit there would be a need for other ways to judge alliances in comparision. But then again who would have problems beeing a top ally with 200 planets to defend the top planets.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 18:30   #80
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delver
With respect to 16:2 (i'm not there), my prediction would be that they will keep resourcs in production for as long as it takes, and then split up and exile themselves into some other galaxies close to the rounds end, to give one allianc top 5 galaxies in this round.
16:2 has a total stockpile of about 2m each to finance information blackout. We most likely won't get much more than that, simply because it's impossible to get a high ranking from only cov ops. So don't expect any kingmaker behaviour from us.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 19:02   #81
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Disinformation and ridicule wont change the fact your cheating tards.
I see, cheaters always check to ensure that their actions are not against the rules.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 19:09   #82
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Re: Cov Ops

They don't cheat, they just blocked before the ticker started... Not their fault it went un-noticed.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 19:19   #83
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Re: Cov Ops

This thread is hilarious. I'd say good job to us in *scendancy, for once again managing to piss off all those clueless idiots which cannot be arsed to take a closer look at the game they are playing. Get real guys, there is no simple solution for getting a good ranking with your planet/galaxy/alliance. You will have to invest some thought into figuring out an interesting approach.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 19:51   #84
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
So lets reinstate Zik as super FC class again.

If we can ruin peoples fun with covops and "alternative play" lets make zik FC super class again like R19. (or wasnt the reason ziks got nerfed to stop the funkilling like fleet catches?)

Disinformation and ridicule wont change the fact your cheating tards.

The alliance limit is there for a reason - Its to keep an even playing field to rank alliances, without the alliance limit there would be a need for other ways to judge alliances in comparision. But then again who would have problems beeing a top ally with 200 planets to defend the top planets.
In case you haven't noticed ascendancy isn't actually winning. Do you honestly think anyone would go to the bother of setting up a support alliance to achieve second place? I mean really.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 20:01   #85
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Re: Cov Ops

I'm clearly gonna find 4 people from my ally and have them set up an alliance each ingame and recruit to 60 members so we can "co-oporate" in a way that helps my alliance. It isnt cheating/supporting, since the MH's said it's ok, so why not?

I hope the MH's doesnt change their mind so i cant execute my ev0l plan to take over the universe
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 20:17   #86
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
I'm clearly gonna find 4 people from my ally and have them set up an alliance each ingame and recruit to 60 members so we can "co-oporate" in a way that helps my alliance. It isnt cheating/supporting, since the MH's said it's ok, so why not?

I hope the MH's doesnt change their mind so i cant execute my ev0l plan to take over the universe
If you bring back 236 people to this game more power to you. If you honestly think this was some sort of plot on my behalf surely I would have gone out and found more people. Or maybe organised those we have? This really has nothing to do with ascendancy winning or whatever. It's just that more people would rather play with me and mine than you and yours.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 20:34   #87
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If you bring back 236 people to this game more power to you. If you honestly think this was some sort of plot on my behalf surely I would have gone out and found more people. Or maybe organised those we have? This really has nothing to do with ascendancy winning or whatever. It's just that more people would rather play with me and mine than you and yours.
Hehe, you misunderstood me. I have no problems with you doing what you do after being cleared to do it by the PA-Team. As long as it's allowed you should do it as best you can tbh.

I disagree that the cooporation of the type that desc/asc has should be allowed tho. I tried to point at the rules and whom makes/enforces them, not at you as an alliance. The rules says this:
Code:
18(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to 
undertaking specific and repeated actions which result in an unfair 
benefit for a planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as 
an alliance or galaxy.
Still you were given the to go for it by MH's. That i feel is weak of the MH's. If they're going to give for people to break the rules, then they better change the damn rules tbh. No wonder noone else thought of this, since noone else had the idea of asking the MH's if it would be ok for them to break the rules. I know that the word "unfair" leaves room for wide interpetation, since it wouldnt be benefitial if everyone used supports, but still. Can the PA-Team please look at the rules for support before next round, and either remove them or make them clear.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 21:08   #88
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
I disagree that the cooporation of the type that desc/asc has should be allowed tho. I tried to point at the rules and whom makes/enforces them, not at you as an alliance. The rules says this:
Code:
18(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to 
undertaking specific and repeated actions which result in an unfair 
benefit for a planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as 
an alliance or galaxy.
Where is asc and desc more or less avoiding each other as well as sharing scans and suggesting targets to each other breaching the support rule? This is a common action that happens when two alliances decide to cooperate, no matter on which scale.

To me, you sound like you are desperately seeking for a reason to comfort yourself from a fear of being outplayed by others.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 21:30   #89
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Where is asc and desc more or less avoiding each other as well as sharing scans and suggesting targets to each other breaching the support rule? This is a common action that happens when two alliances decide to cooperate, no matter on which scale.

To me, you sound like you are desperately seeking for a reason to comfort yourself from a fear of being outplayed by others.
You're even better at misunderstanding me. Grats.

"Everyone" knows that descendancy was established by ascendancy, even if this is near impossible to actually prove, so it differs from what you would traditionally call a block/NAP. Especially does it become different when scanners/cov-oppers and inactives are moved to descendancy from ascendancy, since this provides ascendancy with a score benefit. I am sincerely surprised that the MH's said yes to this before the round started, because it breach with my previous interpetation of the rules. The rules are too unclear when a grown player can misunderstand them for years.

As stated earlier, i've no problems with you guys playing like this throughout round since you've been given by the PA-Team, i do however hope that the PA-Team looks into the rules and enforcement of theese for the future rounds.

As for being outplayed in PA - i've been outplayed every round i've played, so should i happend to be outplayed once again it will be because i'm a crap player compared to most others, nothing else.

Edit: I have to apologize tho, this is not the correct thread to discuss the game-rules and the Multihunters. If anyone wants to continue the discussion i aimed for, make a new thread for it.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 21:33   #90
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Re: Cov Ops

When people complained about cov-ops with any calculation and such in this thread, at least 90% of those statements were fundamentally wrong or non-sense.
Theres a lot of paranoia and exaggerations around. Apparently some people - even after they have seen cov-ops can play a significant role now - still did not care enough to get the fscking knowledge about it, yet moan worse than John McEnroe at his best.
And thats exactly the difference between clue+dedication and dullness+stubborness.
I really have utter respect for those who didnt think of it and suffer from it, yet still accredit it - as a new aspect to the game, making it more diverse, offering another dimension.
Btw, did people whine when the alliances started to have dedicated scan planets?
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 22:05   #91
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Re: Cov Ops

There is 2 things in this thread.

1) Covop beeing unbalanced - While feudalism has been mamed completely dictatorship is now overpowering covoppers.

2) Ascendancy breaking the alliance limit rules using a support alliance.

You can agree or disagree that about the balancing of covopping, but in no way can there be any doubt about Ascendancy abusing the rules - And i doubt the MH that allowed it prior to the round would have done so knowing the extent of the problem.

As Heartless and others has written:

Quote:
Where is asc and desc more or less avoiding each other as well as sharing scans and suggesting targets to each other breaching the support rule
It doesnt take a rocketscientist to see thats a clear violation.

Today remy stated that it was a clear violation of the alliance limit rules:

Quote:
<+remy|afk> scanning for an alliance whilst not intag is a breach of the alliance limit
Simple as that - you should have been closed down and i seriously doubt MH approved of you covopping and scanning cross alliance in such an organised manner.

If you lot had done it intag we could have complainted about the covopping and government beeing unbalanced, but when you break rules its a whole other story.

I hope the lot of you cheaters get closed asap.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 22:19   #92
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking
"Everyone" knows that descendancy was established by ascendancy, even if this is near impossible to actually prove, so it differs from what you would traditionally call a block/NAP.
Wrong. It was established by people from Ascendancy who wished to play in a seperate alliance, originally because they planned to be less active and did not want damage the score of Ascendancy. You have to realise, Ascendancy has no real command structure and the hoodlums who created Descandancy did it of their own free will and as a seperate alliance to Ascendancy. Yes, they share scans and suggest targets to each other much in the same way two alliances would, i.e. WP/CT/VSN actions on 9:2 last round. Breaking the rules? No.

To reiterate this in accordance to the rules:

Quote:
18(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to
undertaking specific and repeated actions which result in an unfair
benefit for a planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as
an alliance or galaxy.
Descandancy is an alliance with its own goals. Some of its members covop, because they want to. Some of its members don't, because they don't want to, the point is they do not take orders from anyone, they do not complete repeated actions with the specific intention to aid Ascendancy (or any "organisation"). They do what the hell they want. Many of Descandancy's members have friends in Ascendancy, and clearly vica versa, therefore ask each other on occasions to help each other out. Help flows boths ways, it is not a one way repeated action designed to incur unfair benefits on either organisation. It is two alliances with seperate goals who wish to aid each other where their interests are the same. Descendancy can decline to help (and no doubt will, or already have).
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 22:24   #93
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
etc
I dont think you have too much clue of what you're talking about.
I also think you are among those who like to overread posts that they do not like because they dont fit to their drivel.
Apart from that thats off-topic in this thread anyway.
Apart from that it looks quite desperate.
Apart from that i think you should take a look at the rankings, think about them, take a deep breath and invest your energy in playing instead of going all boo-fking-hoo-whoever-else-I-think-is-winning-is-a-cheater.
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» I wonder what was going through Custer's mind when he realized that he'd led his men into a slaughter? «
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Sir, Custer was a pussy. You ain't. «

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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 22:30   #94
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Re: Cov Ops

I think you need to find more people to come and write here - keep writing how desperate and envious we are, to me it just shows you know you stepped over the line and now your trying to avoid getting closed.

I am not envious nor desperate - But i do care about people following the rules of the game, games where rules arent followed tend to become quite boring and die out rather quickly.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 22:35   #95
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
I think you need to find more people to come and write here - keep writing how desperate and envious we are, to me it just shows you know you stepped over the line and now your trying to avoid getting closed.

I am not envious nor desperate - But i do care about people following the rules of the game, games where rules arent followed tend to become quite boring and die out rather quickly.
I am not even in the slightest bit worried about being closed, seeing as said actions were cleared with MH before any "cooperation" occured.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 22:35   #96
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Re: Cov Ops

I dont support cheating either - i still disagree with you tho. Well, whatever.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 22:42   #97
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by H1TMANish
I am not even in the slightest bit worried about being closed, seeing as said actions were cleared with MH before any "cooperation" occured.
Lets hope JBG clearly stated how you would be scanning and covopping for Asc in Des then and not just tell MH you werent going to attack and defend together - Somehow i doubt he did that.

Although i find it fantastic that after a full days admitting the breaches of the rules by serveral of your members your the first to actually try and deny it, it shows atleast some of you realise the problem.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 22:50   #98
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Re: Cov Ops

What i find fantastic is your perception.
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 23:13   #99
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Re: Cov Ops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Disinformation and ridicule wont change the fact your cheating tards.
Saying it won't make it true
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Unread 29 Jun 2007, 23:33   #100
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Re: Cov Ops

I'll reform my accusation on the Planetarion team not informing of the vital changes enough into

[01:13:16] <Fiery> I don't think it was realised how much it would impact the game dynamic

The Planetarion team paying too much attention into ship statistics generated on basis of last round's statistics which were a very proven failure, instead of paying attention to betatesting something that actually changes the game mechanics at a very grand scale. Again, with the given betatesting, it seems strange that the playerbase has realised the effect of the improved covert operation effectivity changes, but the game team hasn't.
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