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Unread 12 Feb 2017, 22:15   #51
Deakonn
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble, but no major changes will be made.
it's true which is why the topic should be change to "game stagnation"

it's the same garbage most rnds
and generally the same dipshits responsible for it
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Unread 12 Feb 2017, 23:10   #52
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Re: Round stagnation

Wow you two are really spreaking truth to power here well done keep up the good work I wish I were as courageous as you.
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Unread 12 Feb 2017, 23:55   #53
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Re: Round stagnation

While it is true that the chances are nothing will happen that does not mean that it is not worth making suggestions; not making suggestions would simply make it even less likely that there are changes made.
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Unread 13 Feb 2017, 00:05   #54
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Re: Round stagnation

Well i think we need to direct it towards what can be easily changed.

xp, like i suggested based on allie rank or something similiar
Tagsizes.
BP setup, maximun 2 per BP and shuffling 2 BPs together would make a big difference to how the round plays out.

Or hope for the alliance leaders out there will take more responsability towards not making EOR deals before tickstart or the first week. (wich aint gonna happend anyway as a lot of people with power is corrupt anyway)
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Unread 13 Feb 2017, 00:43   #55
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Re: Round stagnation

Some of the war suggestions are surely pretty easy such as the truces during cooldown, a bash limit, or making it more effective against bigger tags. None are big picture changes, and all use ideas already implemented elsewhere in the game; ingame naps prevent hitting another alliance, there is a bash limit for planets, and xp is bigger for hitting bigger planets.
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Unread 13 Feb 2017, 09:00   #56
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
While it is true that the chances are nothing will happen that does not mean that it is not worth making suggestions; not making suggestions would simply make it even less likely that there are changes made.
You miss his point. The problem is its YOUR suggestion and not an MZ suggestion.
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Unread 13 Feb 2017, 19:57   #57
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Re: Round stagnation

My suggestions:

1.No BP. All random.
2. 30 man tag
3. All planets count in score
4. Galaxies of 5 or max 7.
5. You can still initiate but the cost start to be dubble over 1k roids, so it is not worth it.
6. Remove ally fleet
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Unread 13 Feb 2017, 21:31   #58
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by Gabba View Post
5. You can still initiate but the cost start to be dubble over 1k roids, so it is not worth it.
I agree, I would make it a much more curved or exponential curve and should at the opposite end be cheaper for the first 300 or 400 thus making easier to come back when roided into the ground.
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Unread 14 Feb 2017, 11:38   #59
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Re: Round stagnation

Why?

Why is covop OP?

Why is napping cheating and stagnating?

Why is initing roids bad?

Can anyone genuinely answer these for me. I'm yet to see a sound reason to back up any of these claims.

Thanks
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Unread 14 Feb 2017, 14:42   #60
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Why?

Why is covop OP?

Why is napping cheating and stagnating?

Why is initing roids bad?

Can anyone genuinely answer these for me. I'm yet to see a sound reason to back up any of these claims.

Thanks
They are not.

For example, initting roids is not the problem. Initting 3000 roids is not a problem currently.

Whatever is "the problem" is politics allowing planets to comfortably have no fleet, attack inactives for free roids and initting to 3000 or whatnot and by doing so comfortably ranking way above others who play a lot more dedicated.

But that again can not be regulated by ingame limitations - it is just part of the game.

Same goes with for example covops - this is "OP" simply because enough people do not bother stopping covoppers, making it possible to covop steal ships and in the end gain steal pods.

And to be honest you can gain a lot from covopping be it researchpoints or ships - but it is actually time consuming and require some dedication.
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Unread 14 Feb 2017, 15:28   #61
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Re: Round stagnation

Neither the alliance limit, nor the alliance napping are the problem. The problem is that this "war game" punishes actual war so hard, you are basically out of the game. It is really stupid imagining you are the admiral of 1 million ships and you see that you are loosing a fight, wouldn't you order a retreat to fight another battle? Well you would, but in this game all admirals are stupid droids with the order to waste every single ship no matter what or recall completely before the battle, which makes another day being added to the wasted days where nothing happened.
What this game needs to stop stagnation is a real benefit and reward for combat. And I dont mean by landing and gaining xp through stealing roids. I mean by battling and gaining xp by battling. And also maybe leave a player the chance to add an order to their fleet. (not only attack) but maybe (retreat on 20% losses, or something like that) I mean afterall, are you the commander or not?? Make salvage a lot bigger, add some for the attacker as well.
And make xp for attacking and defending bigger, also for actual combat.
And initiating roids should be really cheap until 1000 and then way more expensive after that. So people that are bashed down to 300, come back up more quickly and can stay in the game. I mean afterall this game takes 7 weeks. If your comeplete fleet and roids are lost at week 3, your chances of winning are really low, so why stay? Doesn't make sense and that is another factor that makes people leave this game.
This game is terribly outdated and flawed because of the huge snowball effect that bigger players get bigger so fast, while almost being unable to land on them.
I don't really understand the fact that the stats are changed so quickly and totally. Why not have 2 ships stats, one for value play and one for xp play. Let players vote what stats they prefer for the upcoming round and tweak the shipstats after each round, so we can actually have really balanced race/ship stats for both xp and value round.
But all of this leads us back to the problem: Someone needs to code it, so someone needs to pay for it and invest time. So further discussions are useless until we find someone willing to code and/or pay for it...
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Unread 14 Feb 2017, 15:53   #62
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Re: Round stagnation

It was nice to see two people who get it. Who understand that no manner of tinkering will fix the 'problems'.

No matter how many people you have in a tag or how many tick based limitations you place on alliances in-game the simple fact is that alliances don't have to stick to them or use them at all to function as a cohesive unit. No alliance worth it's salt uses in-game tools, they are crap, period.

And if we did have to label something as broken or OP or unbalanced or wrecking the game then the answer would offensive combat. Not only does it not make sense (in what scenario would you wipe out planets base fleet, destroy it's structures and then leave all the 'salvage' to the defenders to rebuild) but it's so lopsided and out of sync with today's 24/7 mobile play that it's almost laughable.

For the sake an example attackers only interact with a victim for 1 tick out of 24. That is very very slow. Travel time should be shortened to enable 2 rounds of attacks a day (why tick 1-4, it's just a pending death sentence).

I think personally that salvage ships would be a good fix too. A ship set that you have to build to accompany your fleet. That isn't t1 targeted so it will gain salvaging offence and defence. No ships no salvage. It would promote more combat if attackers didn't think you had 1 live and any sort of fleet loss was the end of the round.
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Unread 14 Feb 2017, 19:36   #63
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Re: Round stagnation

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But that again can not be regulated by ingame limitations - it is just part of the game.
You say "just part of the game", as if player behaviour is something that we can never hope to alter. Lots of things can be done to change player behaviour. Here's some truly ridiculous ways of changing the way people play the game, roughly in ascending order of idiocy:
  • Give people in lower ranked alliances +50% cap if they land on people in higher ranked alliances.
  • Allow botting.
  • Implement a rule banning NAPs outside of the game, punished with full alliance closure.
  • Remove asteroids.
  • Give 10 times as much XP.
  • Give 200% attacker salvage.

All of those are dumb as shit, but they would undeniably change player behaviour. If I got double my fleet value back whenever I crash an attack, I'll build 300 factories, prod the shittiest ship Terran has and launch suicide attacks 9 times a day. That's different from forting up with Fr/De and initing to 2000 roids. Again, balls to the wall attacking is not the behaviour we want to encourage, but we also don't want the game to encourage 1000 tick NAP snoozefests interspersed with a couple of frantic 6 hour long gang bangs, and yet, that's what it does.

A more reasonable example, then, from DotA 2. After each game, you can report people (on both teams!) for a variety of behaviours that the designers consider detrimental. When the community managers agree, the players in question can be punished. For example, they might have to wait longer when queueing, or get muted for a certain amount of time.

That's all fairly standard nowadays. The problem with report systems is that normally, if you report someone, you'll never hear of it again. You don't know if the perpetrator was punished, hell, you don't even know if anyone's looked at it. But in DotA, they do something I haven't seen in other games (though it might exist!): you get feedback when those people have been punished in some way. Getting provided feedback on your reports closes a feedback loop that encourages people to continue reporting. And best of all, they didn't change the game mechanics at all.

Player behaviour can always be changed, you just have to figure out the right way to do it.
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Unread 15 Feb 2017, 00:03   #64
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
No matter how many people you have in a tag or how many tick based limitations you place on alliances in-game the simple fact is that alliances don't have to stick to them or use them at all to function as a cohesive unit. No alliance worth it's salt uses in-game tools, they are crap, period.
Whats wrong with the ingame attack page and the ingame scan request option?
Or what is wrong with using the ingame function to look up what ships people got free?
Ofc if everyone was happy doing everything on google doc sheets, or notepad with attacking/defending/scanning etc it would prolly be more efficient, but with todays PA being played from smartphones less time consuming stuff the better.
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Unread 15 Feb 2017, 08:22   #65
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Re: Round stagnation

Not certain it would really affect stagnation but it could be interesting to have the hostile and friendly settings for alliances showing publically. Even better would be if they were automatic with frindly being if there are no or a set low number of incs between the two for a set time period. Hostile conversely would be when two alliances are sending a lot of fleets at each other but have not declared war.

This would be useful for those who are not involved in politics to see what it's going on - rather than having to guess from losses on kia.
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Unread 15 Feb 2017, 08:46   #66
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
Not certain it would really affect stagnation but it could be interesting to have the hostile and friendly settings for alliances showing publically. Even better would be if they were automatic with frindly being if there are no or a set low number of incs between the two for a set time period. Hostile conversely would be when two alliances are sending a lot of fleets at each other but have not declared war.

This would be useful for those who are not involved in politics to see what it's going on - rather than having to guess from losses on kia.
This is a good idea.
If you combine this with all intel being known public at a certain tick, it could be interesting
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Unread 16 Feb 2017, 18:59   #67
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Whats wrong with the ingame attack page
It lacks too many options.
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...&postcount=240
Mainly the last point. Can't team people on the target.

(But not sure how any of this is relevant with the thread topic tho)
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Unread 16 Feb 2017, 19:01   #68
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
all intel being known public at a certain tick
So since you're bad at intel all intel must become public at a certain tick?
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Unread 16 Feb 2017, 19:13   #69
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Re: Round stagnation

Get your own Intel butcher you scrub!

Bram the point being made about in-game attacks is that most in-game tools are so poor that alliances built their own external ones ages ago. Which is why this whole thread is a waste of time, cos 95% of the game doesn't take place in-game. It's all messenger apps/irc and text messages. The only point of player to player interaction in-game is when someone lands.
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Unread 16 Feb 2017, 20:26   #70
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Re: Round stagnation

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So since you're bad at intel all intel must become public at a certain tick?
Our intel is usualy fine.
I just dont see the point having hidden intel when the coords are allready known at pt100
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Unread 16 Feb 2017, 20:50   #71
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Re: Round stagnation

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So since you're bad at intel all intel must become public at a certain tick?
Everyone who matters, politically speaking, has all the intel anyway, so the only people who stand to benefit are allianceless newbies. Sounds fine to me.
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Unread 16 Feb 2017, 20:56   #72
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Re: Round stagnation

I think that there should be some option to buy intel from the game which would cost the alliance fund (or an individual if not in an alliance) a certain amount of resources per planet they are interested in.
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Unread 16 Feb 2017, 21:23   #73
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Re: Round stagnation

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Our intel is usualy fine.
I just dont see the point having hidden intel when the coords are allready known at pt100
Yeah.. that's why you were asking Norse at PT 117 for their coords? ( http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...&postcount=169 )
Or that's why in earlier rounds your HCs claimed not to have HR intel well past PT 500 (or at least using that as an excuse as to why they were hostile to us...)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Everyone who matters, politically speaking, has all the intel anyway, so the only people who stand to benefit are allianceless newbies. Sounds fine to me.
If everyone that matters already have it then why does BB bring it up all the time?
(I know - not a question you can answer)
(But then again, I have all the intel so I guess I must matter! )



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I think that there should be some option to buy intel from the game which would cost
Hmm.. Maybe I should start a business selling intel?
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Unread 16 Feb 2017, 21:54   #74
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Re: Round stagnation

I gave out our coordlist pt14 willingly.
Sometimes i get coords in return, sometimes not, in the end that alliance risks getting hit two days in a row.
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Unread 16 Feb 2017, 22:18   #75
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Re: Round stagnation

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Hmm.. Maybe I should start a business selling intel?
That would be the other way to do it. Implement an alliance market for intel/naps/wars. Would have things like 'p3nguins looking for ally to hit apprime for 50million res'. It would cost to go to war, one side would be buying a nap from another etc. I would like the idea even better if it was trading alliance points if they determined the alliance win.
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Unread 17 Feb 2017, 16:03   #76
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Re: Round stagnation

Some interesting ideas and I would love to see some of them implemented to see what kind of impact they would have on the game. Alas lets be real, no major changes will occur to PA. Best that can happen is that the game gets tweaked within the existing tools such as stats, gal/bp/alliance size, etc...

I would really love to see ALL alliance members count toward alliance score/rankings. This 60 limit with 40 counting is ridicules at this point. The way I see it is that the admins are encouraging defense planets and gang-ups since defense planets are so powerful. It is about time we have all alliance members counting towards the alliance score.
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Unread 18 Feb 2017, 19:10   #77
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by Bram View Post
It lacks too many options.
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...&postcount=240
Mainly the last point. Can't team people on the target.

(But not sure how any of this is relevant with the thread topic tho)
Alliances have won rounds using only the ingame tools
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Unread 18 Feb 2017, 21:38   #78
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Re: Round stagnation

Alliances has won only using notepad, ingame tools is just to keep everything in order.
Teamups are made outside of the game, and the attack page is just to make sure there is just to keep it organized
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Unread 23 Feb 2017, 18:59   #79
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Alliances has won only using notepad, ingame tools is just to keep everything in order.
Teamups are made outside of the game, and the attack page is just to make sure there is just to keep it organized
With a ridiculously disorganised and poorly designed interface.... awesome!
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Unread 23 Feb 2017, 19:31   #80
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Re: Round stagnation

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With a ridiculously disorganised and poorly designed interface.... awesome!
Good players dont need a good interface, a IRC attack bot was sufficient 10+ years ago, and it still is.
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Unread 23 Feb 2017, 21:43   #81
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Re: Round stagnation

Only a fool would make things harder for himself by voluntarily using worse tools for the job than are available.
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Unread 24 Feb 2017, 11:34   #82
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Only a fool would make things harder for himself by voluntarily using worse tools for the job than are available.
Is there any better tools than the ingame attack page?
There is only one thats clearly worse, the ND one
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Unread 24 Feb 2017, 13:23   #83
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Is there any better tools than the ingame attack page?
There is only one thats clearly worse, the ND one
Yes let's conviebtly forget the Merlin bot which is superior in all areas. And hrs is great too. I haven't used CTs but I imagine it's better than the in-game one. Oh and that piles of rocks in the corner which also is a more efficient and better thought attack page then in-game. Intact I don't think you could make a worse one if you tried.....
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Unread 24 Feb 2017, 13:29   #84
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Yes let's conviebtly forget the Merlin bot which is superior in all areas. And hrs is great too. I haven't used CTs but I imagine it's better than the in-game one. Oh and that piles of rocks in the corner which also is a more efficient and better thought attack page then in-game. Intact I don't think you could make a worse one if you tried.....
Ive used both.
So what makes merlin better?
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Unread 24 Feb 2017, 14:11   #85
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Thumbs up Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Ive used both.
So what makes merlin better?
1. Interface. Merlin is more presentable and concise. In-game involves too many clicks and hides away useful information.

2. Accesibility. On Merlin you can create and book attacks on irc and on the bot. Both are very simple do and require 1 simple of text. In-game is very fiddly to set an attack with every LT needing to be manually input. The access requirements required to view and claim are also very confuddled.

3. Claiming. Merlin has all its info in one place making claiming simple and straightforward. Only one person can claim each wave and bcs can see at a glance how goes coverage it. In-game has multiple issues. You have tick box close each wave on top of claiming on it to stop others seeing it because if you don't have crate/edit access it won't tell you if someone has claimed a wave of its not closed. You have to drop down click each target. The scans have to be provided by alliance. Really it's just chaos compared to Merlin.

I could list more faults but these alone are enough
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Unread 24 Feb 2017, 17:37   #86
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Re: Round stagnation

Does Merlin still get massively overloaded at TP, or was that fixed?
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Unread 24 Feb 2017, 17:42   #87
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Does Merlin still get massively overloaded at TP, or was that fixed?
iirc, it was a bug with python2 that made it go KA-BOOM once it handled to much requests.
Maybe it was fixed once people learned how to "beat the system" by pre-claiming through IRC?
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Unread 24 Feb 2017, 20:53   #88
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Re: Round stagnation

That's a bit of a non sequitur.
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Unread 9 Mar 2017, 14:08   #89
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Re: Round stagnation

Hi.

Miss me?

Funny that others have suddenly started to throw the lower tag limit around that I campaigned for many many rounds and BB is still campaigning for a higher one

Some things never change!

The games boring and has been for at least ten rounds, end of.
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Unread 9 Mar 2017, 20:38   #90
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
iirc, it was a bug with python2 that made it go KA-BOOM once it handled to much requests.
Maybe it was fixed once people learned how to "beat the system" by pre-claiming through IRC?
Why would the bot go kaboom over requests on the website (since you reference preclaiming on irc). All the writes go to the database, theres no load on the bot to understand that.
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Unread 9 Mar 2017, 23:18   #91
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Why would the bot go kaboom over requests on the website (since you reference preclaiming on irc). All the writes go to the database, theres no load on the bot to understand that.
We used to make the fang bot crash every tp, and the admin said it was something that went ka-booom with the code
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Unread 10 Mar 2017, 15:09   #92
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Re: Round stagnation

Aye you can ping the bot out by spamming it for large amounts of info, like .Intel <ally> or putting in large amounts of scan requests. But it won't crash the webby, and claiming certainly won't. You only have 30 ppl claiming at once in a avg ally (teamups) and half of them will claim a while after release. IF 15-20 requests are killing your webby or bot then you have bigger problems
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Unread 11 Mar 2017, 09:00   #93
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Re: Round stagnation

There was, and prolly still is for many, a problem with how Arthur (the webby of Merlin) handles showing targets (hence picking them too). It can be fixed tho. Haven't ran a merlin for quite a while so don't have the exact details at hand, but I'm sure someone does.
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Unread 11 Mar 2017, 12:15   #94
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Aye you can ping the bot out by spamming it for large amounts of info, like .Intel <ally> or putting in large amounts of scan requests. But it won't crash the webby, and claiming certainly won't. You only have 30 ppl claiming at once in a avg ally (teamups) and half of them will claim a while after release. IF 15-20 requests are killing your webby or bot then you have bigger problems
Claiming targets DID crash the webby.
It was more a joke in FAnG that i kept causing it with hammering the F5 button.
It was mPulse who hosted it, so many other allies had the same issue
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Unread 12 Mar 2017, 01:58   #95
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Re: Round stagnation

I do remember the claiming saga when I was at fang, sometimes I BCed just to get first pickings
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Unread 15 Apr 2017, 00:52   #96
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Re: Round stagnation

you dummy, claiming targets in IRC wont crash the webby and neither will spamming the webby crash the bot , they both use seperate process...

also aint shit to do with py2

edit: why dont you users try figure out whats wrong and report it rather than play dick wagging on here.
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Unread 15 Apr 2017, 02:19   #97
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Re: Round stagnation

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Originally Posted by vuLgAr View Post
you dummy, claiming targets in IRC wont crash the webby and neither will spamming the webby crash the bot , they both use seperate process...

also aint shit to do with py2

edit: why dont you users try figure out whats wrong and report it rather than play dick wagging on here.
mPulse was the one hosting at the time for us, i had nothing to do with it
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