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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 11:25   #51
Knight Theamion
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
You're not being bashed for not winning, you're being bashed for not playing solid planetarion.
I know and you know we didn't play solid Planetarion, there is no denying that.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 12:43   #52
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Re: Congrats Apprime

In my opinion, the only alliance that did play solid planetarion last round was Euphoria.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 13:10   #53
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Re: Congrats Apprime

how can you win a round without playing solid?
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 13:22   #54
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Yeah okay that might be true, but in my opinion Asc and App pretty much played the same last round, except for a few minor differences(some of which I've already mentioned).
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 13:50   #55
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
You're not being bashed for not winning, you're being bashed for not playing solid planetarion.
I think we lacked a real goal and therefor a real plan. I know people like JBG always got the win in their mind when there is even just a slight chance (it´s not like I´d mind winning), but we certainly didn´t have this strong desire as a whole this round. I agree pretty much with mz and jester, we´ve won so many rounds it´s not exactly much of a motivation (at least to me) any more. I´ve noticed I think about playing next round if there is an attractive goal - winning (in the actual universe) hardly is. I´m probably more up for picking an ally from this rounds DENSC block and totally crush it then play for "yet another victory".
That said, siding with Apprime certainly didn´t contribute to an interesting round. While the level of cooperation was really nice to see, the way things went overall were rather boring.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 14:07   #56
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
how can you win a round without playing solid?
Wouldn't be the first time it happened.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:01   #57
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Wouldn't be the first time it happened.
really? I would have to disagree.
if you win, you played solid enough.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:05   #58
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Obviously it depends on how you define it. mz and lok, and myself for that matter, would be of the opinion that it's a relatively objective issue. I mean, can more than one alliance play solid in the round? If so it's clearly something independent of winning. If not, you're not using the word in the same way and this is just semantics.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:20   #59
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Idd, but with a lack of anything else to do, lets discuss it anyway!
I agree that you can loose a round, and still play solid, but I cant really see how you can not play solid and win a round.
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:24   #60
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Idd, but with a lack of anything else to do, lets discuss it anyway!
I agree that you can loose a round, and still play solid, but I cant really see how you can not play solid and win a round.
I would guess wildly that they define "solid" as giving 100%.

If you only give 75% but the next best alliance only gives 50% you can win, and sill not have been "solid".
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:30   #61
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Apprimes plan was to play solid, not winning, but obviously as we climbed the ranks it became obvious we could win with a smaller tag so we did. I dont think euphoria played solid at all under the circumstances. If they had been even close to as solid as Apprime they would manage to climb the rankings alone, without massive support, they were also not hit as bad as subh or dlr.
Apprime played solid, asc played good but lacked the momentum to be as solid as Apprime. The active group in vision were also solid, but they only counted around 15 people. Everyone else did not play solid at all, proven by this rounds history and rankings.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:38   #62
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
I dont think euphoria played solid at all under the circumstances. If they had been even close to as solid as Apprime they would manage to climb the rankings alone, without massive support, they were also not hit as bad as subh or dlr.
That's the thing though. They weren't hit as hard as subh and dlr because they had very high value, and because they did not go for fortress gals, something which meant hitting them was quite hard(OMG SURELY IT CANNOT BE TRUE THAT FORTRESS GALS IS NOT A 100% POSITIVE THING, AFTERALL IT IS THE WORST THING IN PLANETARION ACCORDING TO A VAST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE???). I also had the impression that Euph was a big part of the reason that the block stuck together all round long, this seems natural seeing as it's the only way they were not getting raped in the rear, something which adds to my impression of them having played a 'solid' round.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:39   #63
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Idd, but with a lack of anything else to do, lets discuss it anyway!
I agree that you can loose a round, and still play solid, but I cant really see how you can not play solid and win a round.
First I'd pre-empt this by saying I thought apprime played solid this round. Solid I would define as efficient defence, effective targeting in attack (not just attacking well but also hitting your enemies), keeping activity up, avoiding emoquits from tag, avoiding crashing and keeping a general sense of what you're aiming at politically in mind. Obviously you don't have to do all of these all the time at 100% (I doubt anyone ever has or will) but there's a certain overall level alliances can reach where they become solid. It's not exactly easy to pin down but I'd say it's something like fear, or perhaps concern as people hate to seem afraid of others. If you're a solid alliance people will always be concerned with what you're doing.

For examples of how you can win a round without playing solid I'd probably point at r22 which was a round with really poor alliance quality all round and just ended up with VGN happening to win it.


PS I don't like the "giving 100%" thing. Mainly as I don't really know what it means. Do I need to spend every free moment I have on pa to give 100%?
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:41   #64
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Thing is, euph together with dlr were unable to take down apprime on their own...How can they have played a solid round when they were unable to beat them even with the numbers to their advantage?
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:44   #65
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
First I'd pre-empt this by saying I thought apprime played solid this round. Solid I would define as efficient defence, effective targeting in attack (not just attacking well but also hitting your enemies), keeping activity up, avoiding emoquits from tag, avoiding crashing and keeping a general sense of what you're aiming at politically in mind. Obviously you don't have to do all of these all the time at 100% (I doubt anyone ever has or will) but there's a certain overall level alliances can reach where they become solid. It's not exactly easy to pin down but I'd say it's something like fear, or perhaps concern as people hate to seem afraid of others. If you're a solid alliance people will always be concerned with what you're doing.

For examples of how you can win a round without playing solid I'd probably point at r22 which was a round with really poor alliance quality all round and just ended up with VGN happening to win it.


PS I don't like the "giving 100%" thing. Mainly as I don't really know what it means. Do I need to spend every free moment I have on pa to give 100%?
I see ur reasoning how you define "solid". I just think that if you win something, you played "solid". You did what you had to do to win - solidly enough to win...
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:46   #66
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Right, and as I said you're really just defining the word in a different way to how it was used originally. That's fair enough, nobody gets to be the arbiter of planetarion meanings or something but it does mean that we're not really arguing over anything substantial!
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 16:48   #67
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
That's the thing though. They weren't hit as hard as subh and dlr because they had very high value, and because they did not go for fortress gals, something which meant hitting them was quite hard(OMG SURELY IT CANNOT BE TRUE THAT FORTRESS GALS IS NOT A 100% POSITIVE THING, AFTERALL IT IS THE WORST THING IN PLANETARION ACCORDING TO A VAST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE???). I also had the impression that Euph was a big part of the reason that the block stuck together all round long, this seems natural seeing as it's the only way they were not getting raped in the rear, something which adds to my impression of them having played a 'solid' round.
That is why we saved euphoria for last, we did not fear hitting them at all but we chose to start hitting them on a monday because of the support planet rule. We chose to hit them with cr/bs while defending with fi/co. The thing was that the block didnt care about the rule and just broke it when they had reached the limit, so we could not effectively roid Euphorie because of the massive out of tag defence against our cr/bs fleets. We grounded fi/co the last 2 weeks of the round, to either defend us or defend ascendancy/vision.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 17:04   #68
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Yeah, thanks to the MHs for doing absolutely dick all with planets breaking the OOT def rules
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 17:04   #69
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Do I need to spend every free moment I have on pa to give 100%?
I would say not. It is a relative term, better alliances expect more of their players than worse ones.

Its more like doing the best you can do, however lame or awesome that best might be. Another way of putting it might be "playing in such a way that you are unlikely to be able to say that you could have done more at the end of the round".

For some people that might mean attacking every night with 1 or two fleets and ensuring that they are available to be called at 0400 every morning for defense, for others it could mean launching 2 or 3 times a week and remembering to get scans before landing.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 17:17   #70
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Again, I'd define the word differently. Otherwise you're implying an alliance of 50 people who only have access to pa twice a week can somehow form a solid alliance. This I would disagree on. Solid for me means of a certain quality and capable of exerting a real impact on the round.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 17:17   #71
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Re: Congrats Apprime

i doubt any rules have been broken with out of tag def to euph, cause we didnt need that much at all most of the times, so hanzi get ur facts straight before making a post.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 17:20   #72
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
i doubt any rules have been broken with out of tag def to euph, cause we didnt need that much at all most of the times, so hanzi get ur facts straight before making a post.
Hanzi was actually tracking them every day. I'll take his accumulation of evidence over your "doubt" to be honest.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 17:35   #73
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Re: Congrats Apprime

then he obviously failed to do so properly, or it was def to more allies then just euph
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 17:51   #74
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
then he obviously failed to do so properly
Why is it obvious?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
or it was def to more allies then just euph
Irrelevant, out of tag is out of tag.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 18:11   #75
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
then he obviously failed to do so properly, or it was def to more allies then just euph
Did you like, not read his post at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanzi
That is why we saved euphoria for last, we did not fear hitting them at all but we chose to start hitting them on a monday because of the support planet rule. We chose to hit them with cr/bs while defending with fi/co. The thing was that the block didnt care about the rule and just broke it when they had reached the limit, so we could not effectively roid Euphorie because of the massive out of tag defence against our cr/bs fleets.
I've bolded the important bits. Obviously not all out of tag def was sent to Euphoria. The entire point of what he said was that a bunch of block planets had sent as many out of tag def fleets as they should have been allowed to, apprime etc then hit Euphoria thinking those planets wouldn't send def fleets as it broke the rules, they did anyways and the multihunters ignored it. Fairly straightforward one would have imagined...
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 18:15   #76
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Re: Congrats Apprime

I would like to point out that on numerous occations huge cr/bs waves on Euphoria was covered solely by fr/de fleets from the block, so without this defence you would be utterly ****ed.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 18:18   #77
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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we chose to start hitting them on a monday because of the support planet rule.
Clever. Too bad nobody important seemed to care.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 18:19   #78
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Re: Congrats Apprime

And yes i kept a track on OOT defence towards Euphoria that week, so whatever i have written is right and if you challenge it you are just wrong. I had newsscans to prove it and they were given to the MHs
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 18:22   #79
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Clever. Too bad nobody important seemed to care.
Well, we did! Apprime/asc was defending eachother a lot with FI/CO. We simply stopped sending defence from the planets who reached the limit. Its called playing by the rules, so they not only had numbers in their favour but they also did not play by the rules. By definition they cheated.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 18:40   #80
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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. There was frankly little debate about what should be done, a post was up on asc.tv, debate seemed even and then it was suddenly decided by someone - either theam or reese, not sure. Unusually the decision was not because they won the argument but because they went over the heads of those who thought we should wait and see.
This part of your post caught my eye. Why was it allowed that somebody would go over the heads of people regardless of the fact that nobody was winning the debate?

Is this representative of the politics that take place in the absense of JBG? I presume that if you are opening the floor to discussion of an issue, you should be going with a majority rule as opposed to (what it comes across as, correct me if i'm wrong) somebody fulfilling their own agenda and getting their way irrespective of ongoing debate.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 18:41   #81
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
Couldn't agree more. Add to that what Jester said: 'Winning is so incredibly overdone'. Taking a beating, handing Apprime the win and denying those blocking idiots anything didn't sound too bad.
Nah honestly, we should have just attacked as one alliance and bounced back off Apprime till we get the heads up from AD to utilise some help, especially when the ally has 50% more members. Yeah, that's what we'll do next round. Thanks.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 20:11   #82
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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This part of your post caught my eye. Why was it allowed that somebody would go over the heads of people regardless of the fact that nobody was winning the debate?

Is this representative of the politics that take place in the absense of JBG? I presume that if you are opening the floor to discussion of an issue, you should be going with a majority rule as opposed to (what it comes across as, correct me if i'm wrong) somebody fulfilling their own agenda and getting their way irrespective of ongoing debate.
I can't say I feel anything went wrong with the way this decision was taken. Neither Reese nor Theam have any "real" power, everyone was and is free to make the decision whether to follow them or not. This is indeed different from the way Ascendancy worked when JBG was still around, because then there was a risk of JBG kicking you (power does not need to be exercised in order to have an influence).

In fact, I think this side of Ascendancy (the side that isn't directly concerned with score but has more to do with the health of the community) is functioning better now than it has since roughly round 27, which I think was the first round of our first attempt at a three round winning streak. The forced purges (meaning initiated by Jester or JBG) we've had after r29 and r31 support this; they indicate that during this time, the community was incapable of keeping itself healthy, and required frequent resetting. This round's purge is different, because it was community driven, which indicates a good capability of a community healing itself.

So, to answer your question: they were allowed to make this decision because (1) no one felt sufficiently strongly that they shouldn't be. This is supported by the fact that booji's is the first actual complaint I see, and it's a half-assed one at that. Furthermore, (2) no one felt like putting in the effort themselves. This principle goes back to the early days of Ascendancy: if you ask for something to be done, you do it yourself. The fact that it still plays a role is an encouraging sign that we're still going strong today.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 22:39   #83
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Re: Congrats Apprime

its quite intresting tbh.. i was dealing with euph things all round and i seriously state that i cant belive that euph had massive OOT defence.. im sure we had some, also gave some out - as did other alliances.. and there might have been a few planets breaking the rule by accident or sth, but i cant see it being used or abused massivly.. i might b wrong, but i just didnt see such thing..

neways.. one other thing amuses me.. the posts from apprime ppl here.. about how they had dlr/euph in the bag, etc.. as far as i remember we had a very big success in roiding u guys and also after first incs/retals from apprime our members got their anti cr/bs fleets updated as well.. so we kinda had no problems defending yer incs..

ty to our adapting members most of the days we had like 100% coverage on the incomings, and do not give me any bs that u didnt hit us or sth..

it would have been more fun keeping battleing against apprime imho as the forces were quite similar.. but meh, things went diffrent this time :s

neways cheers and cut the BS on these forums.. it hurts to read quite some posts here :S i mean, i guess some ppl try to make some sort of propaganda or sth, but does it work? the ppl i know in pa dont go along with this crap so imo its pointless to try these things out
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 22:46   #84
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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its quite intresting tbh.. i was dealing with euph things all round and i seriously state that i cant belive that euph had massive OOT defence.. im sure we had some, also gave some out - as did other alliances.. and there might have been a few planets breaking the rule by accident or sth, but i cant see it being used or abused massivly.. i might b wrong, but i just didnt see such thing..

neways.. one other thing amuses me.. the posts from apprime ppl here.. about how they had dlr/euph in the bag, etc.. as far as i remember we had a very big success in roiding u guys and also after first incs/retals from apprime our members got their anti cr/bs fleets updated as well.. so we kinda had no problems defending yer incs..

ty to our adapting members most of the days we had like 100% coverage on the incomings, and do not give me any bs that u didnt hit us or sth..

it would have been more fun keeping battleing against apprime imho as the forces were quite similar.. but meh, things went diffrent this time :s

neways cheers and cut the BS on these forums.. it hurts to read quite some posts here :S i mean, i guess some ppl try to make some sort of propaganda or sth, but does it work? the ppl i know in pa dont go along with this crap so imo its pointless to try these things out
to cut all bullshit you meant that euph/dlr landed 0 attacks on apprime without block help. thats how it was
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 22:50   #85
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Re: Congrats Apprime

you are pissing against the wind neroon

but who knows.. maybe YOUR propaganda does work
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 22:51   #86
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
its quite intresting tbh.. i was dealing with euph things all round and i seriously state that i cant belive that euph had massive OOT defence.. im sure we had some, also gave some out - as did other alliances.. and there might have been a few planets breaking the rule by accident or sth, but i cant see it being used or abused massivly.. i might b wrong, but i just didnt see such thing..

neways.. one other thing amuses me.. the posts from apprime ppl here.. about how they had dlr/euph in the bag, etc.. as far as i remember we had a very big success in roiding u guys and also after first incs/retals from apprime our members got their anti cr/bs fleets updated as well.. so we kinda had no problems defending yer incs..

ty to our adapting members most of the days we had like 100% coverage on the incomings, and do not give me any bs that u didnt hit us or sth..

it would have been more fun keeping battleing against apprime imho as the forces were quite similar.. but meh, things went diffrent this time :s

neways cheers and cut the BS on these forums.. it hurts to read quite some posts here :S i mean, i guess some ppl try to make some sort of propaganda or sth, but does it work? the ppl i know in pa dont go along with this crap so imo its pointless to try these things out
neroon, were you actually playing the same round as the rest of us??? Every post i've seen you write seems to be regarding a round I'm yet to play in..
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 23:03   #87
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Solid I would define as efficient defence, effective targeting in attack (not just attacking well but also hitting your enemies), keeping activity up, avoiding emoquits from tag, avoiding crashing and keeping a general sense of what you're aiming at politically in mind. Obviously you don't have to do all of these all the time at 100% (I doubt anyone ever has or will) but there's a certain overall level alliances can reach where they become solid. It's not exactly easy to pin down but I'd say it's something like fear, or perhaps concern as people hate to seem afraid of others. If you're a solid alliance people will always be concerned with what you're doing.
Yeah I'd agree with that definition.

I'd say going at it 100% is a really stupid idea, as that just ends up in a burnout fail when you're under pressure later in the round.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 23:25   #88
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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neways.. One other thing amuses me.. The posts from apprime ppl here.. About how they had dlr/euph in the bag, etc.. As far as i remember we had a very big success in roiding u guys and also after first incs/retals from apprime our members got their anti cr/bs fleets updated as well.. So we kinda had no problems defending yer incs..
THEN HOW THE **** DID YOU LOSE?

edit: damned caps-limit. Anyways, don't you dare ****ing reply to me I'm ****ing tired of debating with idiots.
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 23:29   #89
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Re: Congrats Apprime

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
its quite intresting tbh.. i was dealing with euph things all round and i seriously state that i cant belive that euph had massive OOT defence.. im sure we had some, also gave some out - as did other alliances.. and there might have been a few planets breaking the rule by accident or sth, but i cant see it being used or abused massivly.. i might b wrong, but i just didnt see such thing..
Like i said, i handed over a lot of proof to the multihunters, which i can provide IRC logs of if you like.

Quote:
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I don't think politics were particularly interesting this round (although the rivalry at times between the two blocks was enjoyable). DLR/Euph were hitting Apprime without much luck and as usual carDi was being cocky about it. That's carDi for you though I guess! Anyway, carDi suggested that if we wanted to land on Apprime, we'd have to bring more alliances. Which we did. Which carDi didn't like.
Yes, after 3 days fighting DLR/EUPH you had roided us so badly that cardi suggested you should bring more alliances! Y
ou landed nothing on us before you the 4th night brought ND, before the 5th night subh and then a few nights later 6 alliances in total.

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neways cheers and cut the BS on these forums.. it hurts to read quite some posts here :S i mean, i guess some ppl try to make some sort of propaganda or sth, but does it work? the ppl i know in pa dont go along with this crap so imo its pointless to try these things out
I am sorry that you call the truth propaganda.

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it would have been more fun keeping battleing against apprime imho as the forces were quite similar.. but meh, things went diffrent this time :s
I think my first quote makes you look like an ass already, but i will supply it with a witty comment: We would have walked all over your mum if you had been alone against us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
neways.. one other thing amuses me.. the posts from apprime ppl here.. about how they had dlr/euph in the bag, etc.. as far as i remember we had a very big success in roiding u guys and also after first incs/retals from apprime our members got their anti cr/bs fleets updated as well.. so we kinda had no problems defending yer incs..
Now read this all over again and you might start realising that you must be talking about a different round
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 23:36   #90
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Re: Congrats Apprime

yes, ure witty indeed .. neways thats the way i saw/remember it..

neways, seems i was in diffrent uni and u guys have the absolute truth.. mighty sorry i gave my opinion :P
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Unread 23 Dec 2009, 23:37   #91
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Re: Congrats Apprime

must have been, when DLR your closest ally says the complete opposite!
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Unread 24 Dec 2009, 01:54   #92
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Re: Congrats Apprime

the round is over let talk about the coming round
so "someone" will not feel BS when reading the forum
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Unread 24 Dec 2009, 10:16   #93
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Re: Congrats Apprime

i agree :P
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Unread 24 Dec 2009, 10:28   #94
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Tbh, most of the roids I had this round came from those first days of hitting Apprime with DLR.

didn't we kill cardis phantoms during that time also?

Anyways, quite irrelevant tbh.

Apprime fought a good war and we weren't strong enough to bring down 3 alliances.

We'll all get another try in 2010
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Unread 24 Dec 2009, 15:12   #95
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by berten View Post
Tbh, most of the roids I had this round came from those first days of hitting Apprime with DLR.

didn't we kill cardis phantoms during that time also?

Anyways, quite irrelevant tbh.

Apprime fought a good war and we weren't strong enough to bring down 3 alliances.

We'll all get another try in 2010
You got your roids after your alliance brought more alliances to fight apprime ALONE, we had no def from any other alliances at that time.
And yes cardis phantoms died when they defended against pure xan incs, he killed 580k value total and after salvage+feudalism he lost about 140k value.

In the first "war" against DLR/euph the only landings were valueloss for attackers. Most incs was covered with valueloss for defenders, but always 3-4 times more value lost for attackers. 100% of the landings dlr/euph made those 3 days, which wasnt that many really, was a loss for attackers. Nothing we could do about people sucking. I think inforza and junglemuffin lost ALL their phantoms all 3 nights, taking a valueloss, but inflicting considerable damage on the attacking fleets. Fleet that you really needed to win a long war. you lose momentum when you give so much fleet for roids and you will find it harder and harder to land roids, eventually you have a lot of roids and shit value compared to your enemy. After a few weeks of war the 6-alliance block had paid so much for their roids that we had a huge valuelead.
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Unread 24 Dec 2009, 15:34   #96
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
You got your roids after your alliance brought more alliances to fight apprime ALONE, we had no def from any other alliances at that time.
And yes cardis phantoms died when they defended against pure xan incs, he killed 580k value total and after salvage+feudalism he lost about 140k value.
Did u not read me saying i got most of my roids during those first days of euph/dlr attacking apprime or are you just being ignorant.

Killing a big zik's preciously farmed (roiding inactives, not in any way implying he farmed them by cheating) 400k xan fi (this was at a time where big xans had not nearly 1M fi) and hence killing of his ability to fake defend is imo not that stupid, certainly not since he managed to noob it and send his phantoms in 2 different fleets, so we cld share the loss with about 10 planets.


Quote:
Fleet that you really needed to win a long war. you lose momentum when you give so much fleet for roids and you will find it harder and harder to land roids, eventually you have a lot of roids and shit value compared to your enemy. After a few weeks of war the 6-alliance block had paid so much for their roids that we had a huge valuelead.
Now seriously, we had a share amount of crashers, which is indeed why your stealing planets managed to get up in value. It has nothing to do with knowingly killing of phantom fleets that hurt xans pretty badly. (A zik with a considerable amount of phantom could cover 3 waves, a zik with no phantoms could cover 1 wave cause of not having the possibility to fake)

The reason you were able to cover incs easily later in the round was cause we needed 2 times the value in xan ships to get trough the highly efficient co this round. Beetle/thief/pillager just ate us alive. If anything the cat crashes on you are what won you the round really.

I think if we (Euphoria) made one big mistake this round it was going mainly xan, as it turns out they sucked so badly they were barely playable after tick 500.
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Unread 24 Dec 2009, 16:39   #97
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Re: Congrats Apprime

we are talking about the phantoms which cardi got by cheating right ?
& what about all those 7 6 planets that had a planet signup for donations ?
hanzi stop talking about cheating when quite some people in your alliance blatenly shipfarmed.

and jbg i did read his post.. from what i heard every monday the support rule gets resetted, so this means if they started monday with hitting euph it should be mainly euph being targetted. Due not needing alot of defence allover we idd could cover waves with mainly outside tag defence, but this was cause mostly we didnt get serious waves to start with.

So back to hanzi, stop that crap about us crossing the rules a zillion times cause you got the rules down wrong if it is like that. the times we got hit decently we had most fleets grounded a cover 90-95% of our incs, isnt that why there was a 30+ fleet wave on neroon also ? cause otherwise you couldnt land ?

and yes, apprime was the best alliance allover the round
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Unread 24 Dec 2009, 16:49   #98
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
I don't think politics were particularly interesting this round (although the rivalry at times between the two blocks was enjoyable). DLR/Euph were hitting Apprime without much luck and as usual carDi was being cocky about it. That's carDi for you though I guess! Anyway, carDi suggested that if we wanted to land on Apprime, we'd have to bring more alliances. Which we did. Which carDi didn't like.
Second time quoted, this time for you Berten.

You landed some roids on us alright, pure xan waves against pure phantom def landed every time, and there was some 300-400k valueloss for 150-200 roids that landed. So if you got roids in those first 3 days, which you claim, then you must have paid a lot of value for them. After the 3 first days ND tagged along and we were fighting 3 alliances, so the defsituation was different. Cardi knew we couldnt cover everything so he chose to deny DLR roids, which meant that euphoria landed a few roids. This was repeated the following 4 days aswell when it was mainly
dlr/euph/subh/nd hitting us. DLR landed nothing while the 3 other alliances landed some roids, and they still landed on pure phantom def.

So you see we could have denied Euphoria roids instead, and hit them back first instead of DLR, but honestly we think DLR are miles better then Euph so it was a tactical thing.

Quote:
Did u not read me saying i got most of my roids during those first days of euph/dlr attacking apprime or are you just being ignorant.
Like i said above, i did read it and i just told you what really happened.

Quote:
Killing a big zik's preciously farmed (roiding inactives, not in any way implying he farmed them by cheating) 400k xan fi (this was at a time where big xans had not nearly 1M fi) and hence killing of his ability to fake defend is imo not that stupid, certainly not since he managed to noob it and send his phantoms in 2 different fleets, so we cld share the loss with about 10 planets.
- Paying 580k value to kill his phantoms. congratulations
- Share between 100 planets if you want, its still 580k value for 300 roids
- What an awesome strategy to leave cr/bs and thieves at base to fake phantoms.

Quote:
The reason you were able to cover incs easily later in the round was cause we needed 2 times the value in xan ships to get trough the highly efficient co this round. Beetle/thief/pillager just ate us alive. If anything the cat crashes on you are what won you the round really.
Maybe if you had not paid so much value for roids....
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Unread 24 Dec 2009, 17:00   #99
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
we are talking about the phantoms which cardi got by cheating right ?
& what about all those 7 6 planets that had a planet signup for donations ?
hanzi stop talking about cheating when quite some people in your alliance blatenly shipfarmed.
I never talked about cheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
and jbg i did read his post.. from what i heard every monday the support rule gets resetted, so this means if they started monday with hitting euph it should be mainly euph being targetted. Due not needing alot of defence allover we idd could cover waves with mainly outside tag defence, but this was cause mostly we didnt get serious waves to start with.

The original plan was to keep hitting you all week because sooner or later DLR would not be able to defend you guys, so i kept a track on OOT defence and we relaunched a few waves when we noticed OOT defence. I also warned Byrney in DLR about this and adviced them to stop defending after reaching 3 missions because i was watching them. On thursday we had hopes that it would be easier to land on Euphoria because DLR already had planets on the limit, but the def just kept on coming.
On sunday i handed over a substansial amount of newsscans as evidence and i hoped atleast it would result in a warning to the planets in question.

according to 2 separate MHs i talked to, a warning would mean that they would not be allowed to send a single OOT def the next week. With this in mind i expected that a lot of DLR planets would recieve a warning and therefore not being able to defend Euphoria. No warnings were issued.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
So back to hanzi, stop that crap about us crossing the rules a zillion times cause you got the rules down wrong if it is like that. the times we got hit decently we had most fleets grounded a cover 90-95% of our incs, isnt that why there was a 30+ fleet wave on neroon also ? cause otherwise you couldnt land ?
Apparently im one of the few who knows how the rule works since i have read it and discussed it with several MHs. have you ?

That attack on neroon the first time had 1 of the waves covered solely by DLR. Second time we landed on him and killed his fleet.
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Unread 24 Dec 2009, 17:13   #100
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Re: Congrats Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Well, we did! Apprime/asc was defending eachother a lot with FI/CO. We simply stopped sending defence from the planets who reached the limit. Its called playing by the rules, so they not only had numbers in their favour but they also did not play by the rules. By definition they cheated.
you basicly said we did, did you hit us for 4 days? never noticed any of it
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