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Unread 28 Dec 2005, 22:59   #1
s|k
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Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

I'll do this backwards to build anticipation!

3. Grenade Launchers

Probably not a good idea to lob grenades at terrorists surrounded by child hostages. Grenade fragments have a well documented inability to discriminate between age groups.

2. Tanks

I don't believe children ages 4 to 12 are able to dodge tank shells effectively.

1. Flamethrowers!

Always fun, always deadly, but maybe too much? Waddyathink?


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...ck=1&cset=true
Quote:
Families of the hostages have strongly criticized the rescue operation, saying hostages died needlessly because special forces soldiers used flame-throwers, grenade launchers and tanks against the militants.
Is there anyone here that doesn't think Russia is run by an absolute joke of a government? Not only are they nondemocratic, they're incompetent at lying, governing, and just everything in general. Man I wish they didn't have nukes.
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Unread 28 Dec 2005, 23:07   #2
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

I think that applies to most governments.
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Unread 28 Dec 2005, 23:21   #3
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

I was going to suggest not using russian soldiers inside a school complex but you got there first.
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Unread 28 Dec 2005, 23:22   #4
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

there have been some fairly spectacular conclusions reached in the various reports which the BBC keeps reporting on
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Unread 28 Dec 2005, 23:30   #5
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

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Unread 29 Dec 2005, 02:56   #6
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Didn't they use nerve gas at one point too, or was that the theatre siege?
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Unread 29 Dec 2005, 03:06   #7
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apothos
Didn't they use nerve gas at one point too, or was that the theatre siege?
That was the theatre siege, and it was officially an "undisclosed gas", since they refused to tell hospital staff treating the 'survivors' what exactly it was, so they were unable to properly treat most of the victims. Which of course pushed the casualty rate up...
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Unread 29 Dec 2005, 03:22   #8
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

"a paedophile"
















ha ha ha i'm so funny!
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Unread 30 Dec 2005, 08:36   #9
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

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Originally Posted by Dace
"Me"
















ha ha ha i'm so funny!
fixed it for you in an oh so typical way.
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Unread 30 Dec 2005, 11:17   #10
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I'll do this backwards to build anticipation!

3. Grenade Launchers

Probably not a good idea to lob grenades at terrorists surrounded by child hostages. Grenade fragments have a well documented inability to discriminate between age groups.

2. Tanks

I don't believe children ages 4 to 12 are able to dodge tank shells effectively.

1. Flamethrowers!

Always fun, always deadly, but maybe too much? Waddyathink?


http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...ck=1&cset=true


Is there anyone here that doesn't think Russia is run by an absolute joke of a government? Not only are they nondemocratic, they're incompetent at lying, governing, and just everything in general. Man I wish they didn't have nukes.

I dont wish to pop anyones bubble here but America and the such are hardly any better...

http://www.serendipity.li/waco.html

This is just an example of something rather simliar.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/
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Unread 30 Dec 2005, 19:23   #11
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Russian Special Forces are hardly known for their restraint.
Russian commanders are hardly known for their competency.
Russian bureaucracy is hardly known for aiding clear orders and plans.

The entire thing was a farce, once you get local police, national police, army, special forces and government officals all vying for 'authority' over the operation, you get utter chaos.
And a massive death toll.
Plus the desire to show the Chezchen's "whos boss".

The utter incompetence of the Russians actions puts them on an equal footing of blame for that amount of casualties. The poor children never stood a chance.
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Unread 30 Dec 2005, 22:58   #12
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Russian Special Forces are hardly known for their restraint.
Russian commanders are hardly known for their competency.
Russian bureaucracy is hardly known for aiding clear orders and plans.

.
I am not sure if it is a matter of incompetency. They do not have any regard for human life. I also remember something about submarine full of people who were left do die or something.
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Unread 30 Dec 2005, 23:44   #13
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
That was the Kursk I assume and to be fair they did try to do something about it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/...ub/default.stm
Not sure. It seems that there were 7 soldiers in the submarine. I recall another incident involving around 150 soldiers. I may be wrong. Thanks for the info though!
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Unread 30 Dec 2005, 23:52   #14
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charjerk
I am not sure if it is a matter of incompetency. They do not have any regard for human life. I also remember something about submarine full of people who were left do die or something.

Sweeping generalisation ahoy.

'Russians have completely no regard for human life in any shape or form!"
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 00:01   #15
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

"From 1961 up to the present, there have been a number of accidents and incidents involving Soviet/Russian nuclear submarines. At least 507 people have died in accidents on submarines throughout this period.The most serious accidents have been caused by fires that have resulted in the sinking of the submarine, or by severe damage to the nuclear reactor following overheating of the reactor core (loss of coolant accidents) and a number of smaller incidents in which radioactivity has been released. Most of the vessels affected by accidents have belonged to the Russian Northern Fleet.
There have also been a number of other incidents in which Northern Fleet submarines have been involved. These include collisions with other submarines, fires at naval bases and shipyards, submarines that have become entangled in trawler nets, accidents during test launches of submarine launched missiles, collisions with icebergs and so forth.
Despite the differences in time and in location, the Soviet submarine accidents all followed a similar pattern:
  1. Fire while submerged on return from patrol.
  2. Surfacing of the submarine. Attempts made to salvage the submarine, both in submerged and surface position. By the time of surfacing, vessel had already lost power and possibility for outside contact.
  3. Penetration of outside water into the vessel.
  4. Command post loss of control over submarine's essential systems.
  5. Loss of buoyancy and stability of pitch.
  6. Capsize and sinking.
It was not always an accident involving the nuclear reactor that caused these submarines to sink. On all of the Soviet vessels that have sunk, the reactor's shut-down mechanism had been engaged. For extra security, the control rods were lowered manually to their lowest position, an operation entailing such great risk of radiation that it presented a real threat to life."

Last edited by Charjerk; 31 Dec 2005 at 01:06.
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 00:08   #16
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/88/...opulation.html
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 00:26   #17
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Charjerk, you could at least cite the articles that you're copying and pasting from.

http://www.bellona.no/en/internation...996/11084.html
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 00:35   #18
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Charjerk, you could at least cite the articles that you're copying and pasting from.

www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/report_2-1996/11084.html
Sorry forgat to put quotation marks. But it is abvious that I could not have write that given the state of my English.
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 02:16   #19
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charjerk
"For extra security, the control rods were lowered manually to their lowest position, an operation entailing such great risk of radiation that it presented a real threat to life."
"Spock you can't go in there!!! It's suicide!!!"
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 02:24   #20
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Watch your tentacles!
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 12:28   #21
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charjerk
Sorry forgat to put quotation marks. But it is abvious that I could not have write that given the state of my English.
It's generally good practice on here to give the link as well, for people who wish to read the entire article
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 13:39   #22
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
It's generally good practice on here to give the link as well, for people who wish to read the entire article
Sometimes curiosity is the best practice. You look for things and improve, you see. Everybody wins.
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 17:02   #23
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Inflatable Ingrid.
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Unread 31 Dec 2005, 23:01   #24
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

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Inflatable Ingrid.

What the hell is it.
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Unread 1 Jan 2006, 06:54   #25
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

People really should watch Red Dwarf.
It's good for you.
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Unread 1 Jan 2006, 20:08   #26
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Is there anyone here that doesn't think Russia is run by an absolute joke of a government? Not only are they nondemocratic, they're incompetent at lying, governing, and just everything in general. Man I wish they didn't have nukes.
I wish noone hade nukes.

I wonder what the american/british/swedish government would have done, what are the policies concerning terrorism like that? I don't think we have had anything like it in Sweden, ever, it's really a no-win situation isn't it?

Can you possibly charge in the "right" way?
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Unread 1 Jan 2006, 21:12   #27
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

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Originally Posted by Ärketrollmannen
I wish noone hade nukes.

I wonder what the american/british/swedish government would have done, what are the policies concerning terrorism like that? I don't think we have had anything like it in Sweden, ever, it's really a no-win situation isn't it?

Can you possibly charge in the "right" way?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sta...iege/intro.stm

thats always a pretty kick ass way.


Although this was a school so its doubtful that it wouldve worked as well.
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Unread 1 Jan 2006, 21:55   #28
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Definitly handled in a better way, but as you say, different scenario.

Btw why did they shoot these people?

Hostagetakers shot?
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 09:46   #29
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sta...iege/intro.stm

thats always a pretty kick ass way.


Although this was a school so its doubtful that it wouldve worked as well.
no, but then the Iranian Embassy wouldn't have worked so well if they had attacked with with flamethrowers, grenades and tanks.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 20:16   #30
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
I dont wish to pop anyones bubble here but America and the such are hardly any better...

http://www.serendipity.li/waco.html

This is just an example of something rather simliar.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/
An excellent point.

Waco
Ruby Ridge
Dixie Highway Robberies
There was another burning of a house for some protestors but I can't remember where the hell it was at.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 23:29   #31
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

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Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
An excellent point.

Waco
Ruby Ridge
Dixie Highway Robberies
There was another burning of a house for some protestors but I can't remember where the hell it was at.
Note the topic said 'a school with children inside'...not 'a wacko community bent on self-destruction with children inside.'
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 20:35   #32
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Re: Top three items not to be used inside a school with children inside

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Originally Posted by s|k
Note the topic said 'a school with children inside'...not 'a wacko community bent on self-destruction with children inside.'
LEGALLY, they did nothing wrong.

They were just murdered by the ATF's Tax Agents who had no business being there in the first place.
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