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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 16:31   #51
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Stats that allow solo attacks are the best in my opinion, but I know many disagree. I just think that rounds where all the top players fortress and it takes massive teamups to land on them are boring. Maybe I'm just a lousy attacker, but in defense oriented rounds if I land an attack more than once a week the last three weeks of the round it's a good week. I would rather roids be easy come easy go, than risk having a single bad night ruin your entire round.
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 16:34   #52
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

To be honest Pat and Santa ... scrap these stats and start a fresh
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 16:34   #53
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

I would Love to see Soloable fleets. It might just reduce the ever growing lol-waves and keep them from starting early. If we had an attack based round Solo's would be Rampant and top planets would have to roid like a bitch to stay there. Which is how it should be. You shouldnt be able to get 50 roids a night and be a top planet because of defense and unlandable stats.
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 17:21   #54
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
whether or not these stats are supposed to stop solos is irrelevant, they do not in any way stop soloing. infact, i havent seen stats in which it is so easy to solo in awhile.
if your going to rip on our stats at least take the time to read them/our post. i said stop SOME solo'ing. That you CAN still solo some races. LIMIT solo'ing not stop it. READ READ READ

insulting us isnt going to help fix stats. we are willing to listen to anyones idea's but, telling us a total overhaul or that our idea of etd is not the same as yours, isn't going to help.

these are our stats. built on how we feel the races set up for this round. Not how you feel or how they have been in the past. think out side your box and support us with changes.

Also i'm not sure how people can judge the strength of a race yet. As eff are NOT finished. They will have just as much effect on the total out come of these stats then init order.

We're not scraping stats that are good stats just b/c you haven't taken the time to look into them. the more time i take looking over these and the more time pat does we feel better about them. These are good stats that need SMALL changes. we're not going to ruin the round. relax
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 17:29   #55
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

santa, i am not saying you said no soloing but i am saying soloing is not in any way difficult with these stats.

also, my point about etd was valid as they are supposed to be a mix.

anyways, yes they are your stats, good luck with making them in any way decent, its a big task.
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 17:35   #56
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
It's not easier when taken individually - but it's easier to cover one 5-man teamup than it is to cover 5 (good) solos.
No, it's not. You need more defense to cover a 5 fleet teamup than five solo attacks.
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 17:36   #57
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

also, i do not see the logic in making stats in which it is harder to land.

the main problem last round was too defensive stats. less landings equals less fun, and this is not good for PA.

the only way to balance these stats is to make the high init ships have very good efficiencies and make the low init ships very poor efficiencies. this all just leads to less lands, worse for solo/new/small alliances.
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 17:55   #58
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

last round wasn't an st round. most pa players don't play st rounds b/c they are to easy to land.xp.
also solo'ing doesn't help n00bs when they can get raped np by anyone. with the sstats you guys want you would be ****ed out of an alliance.
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 17:57   #59
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

noobs get bashed more when its harder to land as it means the big planets are harder to hit.

make it easier to land and the bigger planets will get more incs and the smaller/noob planets will not need to be bashed more.

anyone that player round 42 will agree that it was awesome stats, and fun round, cos it was ST and not impossible to land.
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 18:03   #60
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
anyone that player round 42 will agree that it was awesome stats, and fun round, cos it was ST and not impossible to land.
That what is annoying me ... R42 stats were decent but we now have these beta stats, makes you think someone is having a laugh
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 18:07   #61
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
No, it's not. You need more defense to cover a 5 fleet teamup than five solo attacks.
You usually need more fleets to cover 5 solo attacks than a 5 man teamup! (if the def fleets are good ofc!)
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 18:10   #62
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

as etd
you cant defend vs fr/de/Cr
without hulls 3
so you need hulls 3 pretty fast


Could you take a look at this please many thanks
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 18:39   #63
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by eksero View Post
You usually need more fleets to cover 5 solo attacks than a 5 man teamup! (if the def fleets are good ofc!)
More fleets, perhaps. More ships? No. (Think "base fleet". I would make a couple of bcalcs to demonstrate but I neither know the stats for next round, nor those for last round, so no.)
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 19:05   #64
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

So it's often easier to cover a 5 man teamup due to the fleets available
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 21:24   #65
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Pretty much the point I was making (or trying to make).

Added to which, the potential gains from a teamup are so much lower that relatively small losses inflicted by the defenders will result in a recall.
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 21:24   #66
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
To be honest Pat and Santa ... scrap these stats and start a fresh
I second that!!
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Unread 19 Oct 2011, 23:16   #67
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Pat check old stats doc when you get online. i made a list of changes if you agree do it. If you disagree find a better idea ^^ it's still hidden for you and i to view.
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Unread 20 Oct 2011, 05:08   #68
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

I played around with the stats a little and came up with a few suggestions for changes. They should make it a bit easier for DE and slightly harder for FI and CR, and I do believe they also allow some additional possibilities for potential solo attacks.

You can see what you think: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtVfmO-sVAdzdDAxZWgzLTFMWmhTYjIyVVhlQlg0ZlE&hl=en_US#gid=0
(sorry, wasn't allowed to post it as a url)

Obviously the efficincies will have to be thought through again. I didn't try to tangle with those
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Unread 20 Oct 2011, 07:08   #69
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

I really don't know what else to say other than the changes you made makes xan De undefendable.... You removed the free fire def from Fr class and Changed Both cr/Co to fire After De. In a sense you just turned an underpowered class to an OVER powered class. You cant just take all of a class weaknesses and throw them out of the window.

Right now i think the best case would be to scratch these and make an entirly new set. One that doesn't require a team up to land and that isnt so defensive.
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Unread 20 Oct 2011, 07:42   #70
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

It's not every fleet that requires a teamup to land though. Every fleet can solo at least one race, some fleets can solo several races.
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Unread 20 Oct 2011, 08:13   #71
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

If you want some Attacking stats to consider

edit- I can add in some cost/armour/damage/guns/emp resist if idea is considered
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Unread 20 Oct 2011, 12:53   #72
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Xan sort of OP'd again with the current set. Faking FI as DE is too beneficial at the moment compaired to what others can fake, + the fact that ETD and cath CO (offence ship) are the only ones with the same ETA defending vs. them at the moment.

EDIT. Whoops has some interesting changes in those stats imo.
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Unread 20 Oct 2011, 16:33   #73
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

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I really don't know what else to say other than the changes you made makes xan De undefendable.... You removed the free fire def from Fr class and Changed Both cr/Co to fire After De.
Wrong. The Centaur is still there and the Pulsar still fires at same init as the Ghost. There are also two eta disadvantaged ships with free fire against Xan DE. Furthermore there's the addition of the Valkyrie which Xans can't fake against by including FI class or Bombers in their DE fleet.
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Unread 20 Oct 2011, 17:27   #74
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
In my opinion stats should never be "setup so that you need a team to attack". We should be encouraging new players (who are less likely to find team up partners) not discouraging them by making sure they have no chance of defending themselves against (possibly massive) incs.
seconded
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 00:58   #75
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

I Like the Changes Made to the stats. De and Fr now look Atleast Playable. And Xan fi is Defendable ingal Very nicely. Along with being able to defend them Allydef with beetles+thiefs.

Also I am not sure that Fr had changes but looking over it Etd+ter Fr team up looks pretty nice. But with out the team up its Really sucks.

Cat co is going to be Really hard to land now because spider emp's before Beetle so spider/harpy/phantom/cutlass Def will be TOO easy.

As for Xan Fi because pulsar is now init 5 zik De fires before it meaning that zik+ xan De Def ingal covers xan fi along with etd+Ter Fr Covers ingal quite well. I would like to see 1 more ally defend able anti fi ship, two is just not enough considering that cat co has 4 ally defend able ships.



Ter Cr looks very strong but not overly strong. It'll end up being weak to Fr/Bs which works. But its STrong vs zik/xan so a smart and effective counter to zik/xan Allys.

Bs On there other hand looks only Defensive because of Spectre+Tarantula+Dragon+Clipper Defense Defense. Broker has a nice Init but 2 of those ships fire before it. There will be alot of flack that will need to be dealt with in order to land.

And i think that covers every class. As stats are they are playable but some fine tuning would not hurt.
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 02:11   #76
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Pat and i have gone over the stats and made a few small few big changes. So when you see stats they should be updated (when appoco wakes)
effs will be done and then just fine tuning will be done to get things 100%
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 04:14   #77
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Pulsar init 4->5
Ghost init 5->6
Pillager from Cr->Fr to De->Fr
Removing Clipper and Spirit when Appoco wakes, redundant ships.
Updated all efficiencies and EMP resistances (it's 5am so might have some oversights in it)

In-detail analysis @ http://pastebin.com/9EVtYsY0 - c/p into Word for better format
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 11:59   #78
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Haunt E/r needs to be fixed
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 17:37   #79
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

nice stats guys like how some ppl have had a whinge about them and told you to start again - would like to see said ppl come up with a set from scratch in 4-5 days which has made 90% ofppl happy


Well done
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 18:25   #80
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Stats looks quite decent, De is infact worth taking now, too bad Fr still blows, only place for Fr to go without having stats against them is against Etd.

Not sure if its worth ruining other stats to make Fr worthwhile, I guess having one fail class is better than te usual 2-3.
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 20:05   #81
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

i think fr is one of the strongest tbh. ter/etd fr is always a powerful team. take time to look into just fr and you will see what i mean,
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 20:29   #82
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

correct, let me rephrase - Fr blows unless they attack paired ter/etd each and every time - this isn´t the case with the other classes.

I´m well aware that many attacks are made in coordinated teamups, however you´re always looking for an odd single target hit, or possible defdrain/fake - that is quite hard with the current anti Fr out there.

- I guess it depends on how you play the game, as discussed earlier, solo attks, should be accesible imo. And with Fr class it is just barely
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 20:49   #83
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Note that the Spirit (Xan Cr->Fr) will be removed, giving Etd Fr free rides on Xan all round (assuming even values).

edit: done

Last edited by Patrikc; 21 Oct 2011 at 20:58.
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 20:57   #84
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

ahh - that brings some merit into it then. - leaves etd Fr with Ter/xan as potential solo targs

ter Fr will still only have etd tho...

But an improvement atleast!!!
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 21:26   #85
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

As trivial as it sounds, they can both hit Cat whenever they feel like!
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 21:57   #86
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

I'd bloody well hope so.
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Unread 21 Oct 2011, 22:45   #87
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Don't forget you can use fr to fake as cr\bs
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 06:13   #88
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Single stats always been this way, you need to team up if you want to land 3 other races, but you can also solo on 1 - 2 races.

important not to limit yourself to 1 attack class.
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 08:31   #89
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

all taken into consideration stats actual looks ok
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 13:38   #90
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

The efficiencies of the etd De looks too high for me. It's too much when they can both steal ships to compliment BOTH their roidingfleets AND these ships are actually pretty effective. Their actually more effective than their zik counterparts.
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 17:13   #91
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Zik DE seems horribly overpowered in its roiding ability early in the round...

from what the stats say its only stopped free roids by support planets (caths with locusts) and Terrans.... Etd requires Seige Weapons and then still isnt effective from calcs, Xans just get outinted by those Rogues and its the same scenerio with Corsairs...

Just worried Zik will start to run away early round as there difficult to hit once they get ahead
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 18:38   #92
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

But zik can be roided by DE and CR easy, with ter FR too, and is stopped by centaurs and locusts easy when attacking.

I would say those are quite some disadvantages, surely making it less then overpowered...
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 19:28   #93
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

there looks like a lot of free roiding tbh - gonna be shit if your not that active... shame...
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 20:28   #94
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Yeah, should be roid fest with current stats.

I do think etd/ter fr combo is bit too strong on attacks, there is no way to stop it efficiently, and would be really lame to see half uni go fr...
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 21:01   #95
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

I have to ask Pat and Santa ... Is this honestly the best you can up with?

(note to Monroe I'm not looking to flame the stats makers, Its a geniune question)
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 21:22   #96
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

i think Paisely the simpliest answer to your question is... if you dont like them then dont play them... see you in rd 45
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 21:25   #97
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Zik/Xan De is a good class but its stopped by 2 in-eta Ships. Locust and Centaur. Frankly thats a HUGE!!! price to pay. It'll be too easy to cover De waves all round long. Smuggler Eff is the lowest of all the steal ships. And it only takes about 20-40k locust/centaur to cover just about any De wave. And since Zik cant really be faking Fi/co its going to be hard for ziks to land after say tick 200.

So If anything i think De needs a way to fight back and i've brought that up with santa and we'll see if he changes some of the eff's.
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 21:40   #98
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

But appoco just said stats were final in the announcement thread...
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 21:56   #99
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

Well in that case Etd/Ter Fr Is the best combo out there. And Zik is 100% unplayable.
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Unread 22 Oct 2011, 22:00   #100
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Re: Round 44 stats thread

but if etd/terr fr is the best then all the clever ppl wont go it - looking forward to the CR round coming up
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