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Unread 23 Feb 2015, 09:39   #51
M0RPH3US
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Re: Round 61 stats

i was aware of the multi tick attacks when redoing this set

thats the reason there is limited options for downfiring on classes - only DE is been hit by both classes above, therefore (to make up for it) by no lower class

for the ability to land solo - there is options - but yes them are limited
however landing solo is possible for all races - but ofc there is prefiring defence available for most (cath BS and etd fi as an exception)

PA always has been a Teamgame though - and this set encourages this
Also it is aimed to have every race with every class playable - but ofc some are better then others

Usually stats allow 2 or 3 classes to be played and them are giving those prefiring ships then - i dont think this makes for an enjoyable round though
Look at r60 where basically FR was the only option to do well (as an alliance)

for the faking argument - i dont think faking options need to be built in in a set of stats - and generally faking works only if your targets building enables it anyhow - and if you have the guts to take some risk
Build in fakin options usually are found in ST sets or MT pimped ST sets with low amount of targets each ship
Single Targeting Sets are not wanted by the community though

Also for the Cathaar DE fleet - i was thinking about ways to improve it - however meanwhile i dont aim to change it anymore - simply because it will roid anything until hulls 3 are available for most - while there is no 2 tick defence available to stop it
Overall i think there isnt many ships that are better then those scarab - specially as them represent a full roiding fleet on their own
The more i think about it - the more i could get the intention it even might be too OP

Cat as race will probs be picked often - i assume around 30% atm
1) BS fleet is very nice and good for solo roiders
2) DE fleet makes for a very nice roiding fleet until hulls 3 - and its a very nice defence ship (if not the best) afterwards
3) any Alliances-Co play, BS play or DE play (etd will be picked often 2 i guess) will include cathaar

If i was worried bout a cathaar universe - id look at making cath worse - however having many cathaar is providing good targets for mainly TER and ZIK - so i am fine with it
as it will overall make TER and ZIK a better race choice
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Unread 23 Feb 2015, 12:20   #52
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Re: Round 61 stats

I agree that Cat De is definitely not too weak. Whether it's too strong... I don't dare say.

I notice that you've only mentioned Co, De and Bs as viable alliance choices. What do you think about Fi, Fr and Cr? Fi is obviously a solo raid class (and that's fine), but what about the other 2?
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Unread 23 Feb 2015, 14:49   #53
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Re: Round 61 stats

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I agree that Cat De is definitely not too weak. Whether it's too strong... I don't dare say.

I notice that you've only mentioned Co, De and Bs as viable alliance choices. What do you think about Fi, Fr and Cr? Fi is obviously a solo raid class (and that's fine), but what about the other 2?
i was referring to when cat is a part of the strategy - or when they are a key element only

didnt wanna say those 3 are the only alliance options

xan/ter cr for sure is a very good option as its able to roid everything - and both are more then solid in defence - xan through cloaking, ter through ac/dc and emp resistance

the downside here is the slow research of xan, which is delaying the cr attacks only though
but tbh xan fr will nicely land in that time

a pure fr strategy will roid like mad for most of the round, as its only the xan cr to stop em easy - and those like stated above will take a while to be seen

overall i am still thinking the best option for alliances with this set would be mixed attack-classes for a wider race spread

like ter/xan cr together with ter/zik co and zik/xan fr
or etd/cat de mixed with cat/zik bs and/or cath/zik co

on a sidenote this multi-tick attacking will prolly force me to lower the dc for all ships - but i think this has to be seen in the beta coming up
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Unread 24 Feb 2015, 13:46   #54
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Re: Round 61 stats

Then is sounds to me like you might need to fix Xan Cr, if it Roids everything don't you think it will just be another reason for people to pick the already popular Xan. If you think research will hinder the xan plan think again, it will just mean that xan cr planets wont be able to build Cr for an extra DAY! of which they can still solo roid with fr pods. Xan really don't need to have "overly powerful" fleets but just have a few holes they can easily fly through on 2-3 races. If they have roiding targets on 4 of 5 races then why wouldn't you just pick them. Pa is a game about Avoiding Dc's and def fleets. Rarely ever do you see people landing Vs defense unless its a "i forgot to wake up" or a Fc. The rare actual Breps that come out of the rounds are either "calculated lands" or targeted Value loss/Steals. Which gives Xan the HUGE advantage in the fact that they don't have to risk that much value in order to land attacks because 2k pods vs 0 def fleets 80% of the time lands for roids. However what does it matter you are stats man and you make the Calls. This is just my two cents.


Planetarion is Very much about being able to solo roid. As i said early the game isnt really about making the "unbeatable" team up. Its being able to just avoid having people able to send defense fleets vs you. You could build a SWEET team up and it will be covered because someone took the time and effort to get the right number of fleets there to cause you enough damage to recall. Where as on the flip side; you could plan an attack where you barely cover the defending planet and recieve no def fleets and land because the base planet is not willing to lose value. The idea is that you try and build fleets in such they can function solo(meaning they have the ability to roid 2-3 races) and get stronger with team up so they can roid the other 2-3 races, while still leaving a means of which they can be battled. Where its with PL def/ingal def, or by being out init by 1 ship in 1 race, or by have low A/C or D/C vs a def ship that is clearly much higher A/C D/C, or finally beaten by Flack. Its a very simple idea but hard to balance when your dealing with 5 races and 6 meta classes.
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Unread 24 Feb 2015, 15:57   #55
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Then is sounds to me like you might need to fix Xan Cr, if it Roids everything don't you think it will just be another reason for people to pick the already popular Xan. If you think research will hinder the xan plan think again, it will just mean that xan cr planets wont be able to build Cr for an extra DAY! of which they can still solo roid with fr pods.
The downside of going Xan Cr is not that it takes more RP to get. If that were the case, we'd never see Cat Cr. The problem with Xan Cr is that Xan RP output is low, and high ranking planets need every last point of it to get HCT, TT, core, scans. An investment of 7200 RP is bigger for Xan than for Cat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Planetarion is Very much about being able to solo roid. As i said early the game isnt really about making the "unbeatable" team up. Its being able to just avoid having people able to send defense fleets vs you. You could build a SWEET team up and it will be covered because someone took the time and effort to get the right number of fleets there to cause you enough damage to recall. Where as on the flip side; you could plan an attack where you barely cover the defending planet and recieve no def fleets and land because the base planet is not willing to lose value.
The goal of teamups is reducing the value of the home fleet, not becoming invulnerable to defense. All else being equal, 4 waves of 3 fleets each require 8 defense fleets to cover (home fleet covers 1 fleet per wave, leaves 2 fleets per wave to cover), while 6 waves of 2 fleets each require just 6 defense fleets (home planet still covers 1 fleet per wave, leaves just 1 fleet per wave to cover).
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Unread 24 Feb 2015, 16:00   #56
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Then is sounds to me like you might need to fix Xan Cr, if it Roids everything don't you think it will just be another reason for people to pick the already popular Xan. If you think research will hinder the xan plan think again, it will just mean that xan cr planets wont be able to build Cr for an extra DAY! of which they can still solo roid with fr pods. Xan really don't need to have "overly powerful" fleets but just have a few holes they can easily fly through on 2-3 races. If they have roiding targets on 4 of 5 races then why wouldn't you just pick them. Pa is a game about Avoiding Dc's and def fleets. Rarely ever do you see people landing Vs defense unless its a "i forgot to wake up" or a Fc. The rare actual Breps that come out of the rounds are either "calculated lands" or targeted Value loss/Steals. Which gives Xan the HUGE advantage in the fact that they don't have to risk that much value in order to land attacks because 2k pods vs 0 def fleets 80% of the time lands for roids. However what does it matter you are stats man and you make the Calls. This is just my two cents.
i never said that XAN cr roids everything and it isnt the case
a teamup between xan and ter cr is able to roid everything, as it has nothing apart from emp to prefire it

Xan Cr get prefired by ZIK Rogue - so what we call a 1 fleet stopper - and ofc its easy to fake those rogue

On the other hand both fr and de target CR class, so thats 2 possible options with a mix of fr/de as 3rd option to stop those CR teams with two ticks time for alliances
And ofc they can be stopped by BS class also
Meanwhile xan gets roided by fi and co fleets rather easy
And also at the same time XAN cr will roid XAN cr
Yes xan are able to fake and land battles without risking the value other races have to - therefore i removed the fast pods from them, cause i think in any set FI or CO pods and CLOAK is OP

thats a lot of reasons for not EVERYONE picking XAN if you ask me
while at the same time XAN deffo is a good choice and worth playing

if i wanted XAN to be played by the XAN fans only, i agree i would have to nerf em - but this isnt my intention - not for xan and not for any other race
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Unread 24 Feb 2015, 16:16   #57
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Planetarion is Very much about being able to solo roid. As i said early the game isnt really about making the "unbeatable" team up. Its being able to just avoid having people able to send defense fleets vs you. You could build a SWEET team up and it will be covered because someone took the time and effort to get the right number of fleets there to cause you enough damage to recall. Where as on the flip side; you could plan an attack where you barely cover the defending planet and recieve no def fleets and land because the base planet is not willing to lose value. The idea is that you try and build fleets in such they can function solo(meaning they have the ability to roid 2-3 races) and get stronger with team up so they can roid the other 2-3 races, while still leaving a means of which they can be battled. Where its with PL def/ingal def, or by being out init by 1 ship in 1 race, or by have low A/C or D/C vs a def ship that is clearly much higher A/C D/C, or finally beaten by Flack. Its a very simple idea but hard to balance when your dealing with 5 races and 6 meta classes.
All races in this set are able to solo roid, only for ZIK teamups are needed, but ofc teaming is encouraged and races are build to work better in teams, its harder to cover against teams

TER CO can soloroid CAT,XAN,ETD
TER CR can soloroid TER,CAT,ZIK

CATH DE can soloroid all
CATH BS can soloroid all

XAN FR can soloroid (CAT),ZIK, ETD
XAN CR can soloroid (CAT),TER,XAN,ETD

ZIK CO can soloroid CAT
ZIK FR can soloroid CAT, XAN (until they have CR)

ETD FI can soloroid all
ETD DE can soloroid (TER),CAT,ZIK,ETD
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Unread 24 Feb 2015, 19:59   #58
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Re: Round 61 stats

I had many of the same solo targets written down, but some time in the bcalc shows us both wrong:

Ter Co cannot roid Xan.
Ter Cr cannot roid Xan Fr
Ter Cr cannot roid Xan Cr.
Cat De cannot roid Ter.
Cat De cannot roid Zik.
Etd De cannot roid Ter.
Cat Bs can only barely roid Xan Cr.

Inactive fleets show what other ships I'd build with those attack fleets. Attackers tend to have about a quarter more fleet value than the defenders. Fleets not particularly tuned to roid or defend against a particular race. About half of the attempts I made failed like above, the other half worked as you and I both expected.

I haven't found any solo fleet that has no targets though, other than Zik.
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Unread 24 Feb 2015, 20:45   #59
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I had many of the same solo targets written down, but some time in the bcalc shows us both wrong:

Ter Co cannot roid Xan.
Ter Cr cannot roid Xan Fr
Ter Cr cannot roid Xan Cr.
Cat De cannot roid Ter.
Cat De cannot roid Zik.
Etd De cannot roid Ter.
Cat Bs can only barely roid Xan Cr.

Inactive fleets show what other ships I'd build with those attack fleets. Attackers tend to have about a quarter more fleet value than the defenders. Fleets not particularly tuned to roid or defend against a particular race. About half of the attempts I made failed like above, the other half worked as you and I both expected.

I haven't found any solo fleet that has no targets though, other than Zik.
there is some interesting calcs among - thx for that
will have to play with those effīs

ter co not able to land xan fr bothers me the most though and i am thinking to switch targeting of bomber, while reducing their a/c and d/c
at the same time iīd switch targeting of fireblades to give a t1 bs for everyone without cr hulls
^^ as an idea
edit: i do think phoenix-sylph ratios will not be 1:1 though and rather be 1:2 or even 1:3

ter cr isnt supposed to be able to roid xan fr though - with xan fr firing first

for xan cr effs, i am thinking to reduce ac and emp resistance

ter cr emp resistance and ac should maybe be lowered a lil 2
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Unread 24 Feb 2015, 22:10   #60
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Re: Round 61 stats

Agreed on Phoenix : Sylph ratio. I'm a bit rusty, that was the first calc I did in about 5 rounds.

P.S. We are being far too reasonable about this stats business. Where's the flaming? I barely even recognize these forums any more!
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Unread 24 Feb 2015, 23:33   #61
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
P.S. We are being far too reasonable about this stats business. Where's the flaming? I barely even recognize these forums any more!
Maybe because M0 makes sense when he talks about stats and things. I actually find most of what you have been saying Mz to be correct, and it seems for the most part that M0 is open at least to discussion.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 09:18   #62
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Re: Round 61 stats

UPDATE:

Phoenix: Damage +1
Sylph: Armour +1 - Damage +3 - Costs +1 (each)
Syren: Damage -2 - Armour -4 - Cost +2 (each)
Hydra: Armour -3 - Cost +3 (each)

Phantom: Emp Res +10
Banshee: Damage -2 - Cost +7 (each)
Bomber: Targeting Switched - Cost +3 (each)
Ghost: Armour -1
Fireblade: Targeting Switched - Armour -7
Spectre: Armour -6 - Damage -3 - Cost +2 (each)
Wraith: Emp Res -1 - Damage +4
Vampire: Emp res -2

Mantis: Emp Res -1
Tarantula: Cost +3 (each)

above changes are a first step, the issue isnt solved though
thinking about removing the t3 on banshee and adding it to the phantom - just a thought atm
have to sort some rl stuff before i can continue on this

Edit: looks better now
could still remove the banshee t3 though
and add another fi for xan to target co

We need to look at Banshee beeing to powerful as it is (it targets 3 classes on alliance eta)

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=vzokctwmd0zfaq3 <<< ter co on xan fr
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 11:23   #63
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Maybe because M0 makes sense when he talks about stats and things. I actually find most of what you have been saying Mz to be correct, and it seems for the most part that M0 is open at least to discussion.
i want stats we ALL enjoy
with flaws that are intended and strengths that arent too op
for all races
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 21:19   #64
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
i want stats we ALL enjoy
with flaws that are intended and strengths that arent too op
for all races
I know what I will enjoy
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 09:15   #65
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Re: Round 61 stats

i removed the t3 on the bomber
all those faked bomber fleets beeing able to stop fr, fi and co incs gave me a headache
i wont add a t3 for xan - not for a cloaked version at least

added the revenant instead, fi class to target co
made the phantom cloaked therefore

for now

it opens up the possibility for xan to aquire fi pods through covops and end with a fi attack fleet - i know xan is probs the worst race to do covops - but it is possible - i been doing it myself 2 rounds ago
^^ not sure if this possibility should be countered, if so iīd remove the phantom and switch targeting of bomber

some input on the recent change(s) would be welcome
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 12:10   #66
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Re: Round 61 stats

Fireblade and Phantom (not Bomber) changes sound alright. They improve Xan Fr a little, though, which wasn't necessary. Maybe a small Eff nerf?
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 12:23   #67
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Re: Round 61 stats

sorry i keep mixing things up
i removed the t3 on the banshee, not bomber
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 11:53   #68
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Re: Round 61 stats

Update
Targeting of Bomber and Fireblade switched back again
Removed t3 of banshee
Phantom stays cloaked
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 16:30   #69
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Re: Round 61 stats

You also removed the Revenant again. I don't have an opinion on it, but why?


P.S. If I were in charge of this thing, I'd ask you to finish these stats in the next couple of days, then let someone else hog the beta for until stats are picked. If I were in charge of this thing, I'd ask if anyone else wanted to put together a set. Phew. Good thing I'm not in charge of this thing!
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 17:13   #70
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Re: Round 61 stats

yes sorry, but there wasnt really many diffrent opinions lately - so i just went ahead with changing to what i think works best

Main issue for TER co to not be able to land on XAN was the xans fr flaking their co - so the first intention was to lower effīs for both xan fr and xan co
the outcome overall made TER co (barely) landable

my intention with this set was TER co to be a main threat for XAN though - so i wasnt happy with the changes

Aswell those Banshee fleets which covered 3 out of 6 classes with the addition of beeing cloaked gave me a headache
I allready saw a scenario where xans went cr and fake their banshee around not allowing anyone to land on em

So i removed the t3 of the banshee, but xan now didnt have a t1 co ship
I added the revenant to "fix" this - i wasnt too happy with it either though and i didnt wanna give xan a second FI

Also XAN fr was weakend with the target switch of the bomber too much
so i reversed that again, removed the revenant and reversed fireblade change

Now XAN has a t1 against co, but their FR isnt flaking for their co anymore against TER co
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Unread 2 Mar 2015, 14:37   #71
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
yes sorry, but there wasnt really many diffrent opinions lately - so i just went ahead with changing to what i think works best

Main issue for TER co to not be able to land on XAN was the xans fr flaking their co - so the first intention was to lower effīs for both xan fr and xan co
the outcome overall made TER co (barely) landable

my intention with this set was TER co to be a main threat for XAN though - so i wasnt happy with the changes

Aswell those Banshee fleets which covered 3 out of 6 classes with the addition of beeing cloaked gave me a headache
I allready saw a scenario where xans went cr and fake their banshee around not allowing anyone to land on em

So i removed the t3 of the banshee, but xan now didnt have a t1 co ship
I added the revenant to "fix" this - i wasnt too happy with it either though and i didnt wanna give xan a second FI

Also XAN fr was weakend with the target switch of the bomber too much
so i reversed that again, removed the revenant and reversed fireblade change

Now XAN has a t1 against co, but their FR isnt flaking for their co anymore against TER co
Sorry about my noobness.
But giving a quick look, What alliances should build to stop CR waves?
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Unread 2 Mar 2015, 15:50   #72
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Re: Round 61 stats

You don't stop CR atm, you can too easily build CR teamups that won't be stopped at all, only leaves the possibility of FCing them to stop them from landing. Yes, it will take a few moments longer to get the CR, but it's defo worth it, with basically all the other teamups not landing at all (way too easy to cover with some effective ship builds) and one teamup landing everything.
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Unread 2 Mar 2015, 16:35   #73
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Re: Round 61 stats

Really? As always you get a bit of emp to blunt their init advantage then gather a loads of other stuff.
It looks to me like there would be loads of DE (the triple targeting Bucc and Centaur, plus the Fireblade) that isnt in attack fleets but is likely to be built so u just gather a lot of them. It aint pretty or efficient DCing but its what would happen.

Plus any alliance going Terr/Xan CR has a bunch of Xan members who are likely to be acutely vulnerable to CO... let the attack land then go get the roids back!
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Unread 2 Mar 2015, 16:48   #74
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Re: Round 61 stats

there's also CR that emps first... and pls, save the "but those are not in attack fleets" talks as we all know there will be those who get them in the fleets... legit or not. CR is way too OP atm. Bucc eff on T3... not even worth sending. sure, you can pile on the def fleets, but cover 40 or 50 waves of syren-wraith teamups and you're a superman. (not to even start talking about syren-wraith-illuminator/mantis teamups)
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Unread 2 Mar 2015, 17:03   #75
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Re: Round 61 stats

I certainly agree that having the EMP CR as a lower init than the BS and DE emp that could stop them ends up potentially making CR properly unstoppable (if cats or etds cov of pods or simply send with BS pods in the cats case)
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Unread 2 Mar 2015, 20:10   #76
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Re: Round 61 stats

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=5h48fa4d36baf47 <<< zik bs solo stopping CR teamup

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=ymuf6e5jzjca84l <<< Frigate Planets stopping CR teamup

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=pyusogkh20dhsbr <<<< DE with emp stopping CR teamup

i dont think overall that CR is too strong - most of the anti cr has 2 ticks for ally defence
i agree to lowering the init of mantis to 3 though
and maybe i am going to switch targeting of the thief
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Unread 3 Mar 2015, 20:57   #77
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Re: Round 61 stats

DE is the easiest way atm to stop CR, with maybe some FR to soak the damage and the zik BS is always an option too, but... your fleet compositions are rather... suited (the zik might actually have such a fleet) for such calcs, if those were my CR teamup the fleets would be way more heavy on the 2 ships (maybe 1:3 or even 1:4 ratio in value) that are the "top dogs"... being syrens and wraiths (+ the ETD/CAT with stolen pods).

Fireblades are so off build ships that only a few players will have them, especially not 40% of an attack fleets value so the DE calc is trash and pretty much the same deal with the FR calc and Avengers. You'd need 3-4 fleets to muster that much of those sideshow ships to cover 2 fleets... so a total of 6 fleets to cover 2... I'd say CR is OP.
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Unread 4 Mar 2015, 06:00   #78
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Re: Round 61 stats

BS class is a very good CR defence
DE class is good
BS are easy fakes due to numbers
Etd DE is fully cloaked and therefore fakable aswell
why should i add FR class to beeing a good CR defence in addition !?

it will just make CR not worth playing

and since we are really not aiming a setup where CR is unlandable i am not going to add another (rogue partly does) killship to prefire CR

what i am looking to change atm is:
Ter CR both A/C and D/C lowered
Mantis init from 1 to 3
Wraith A/C D/C lowered

if there is any other ideas (other then adding a killship to prefire CR) to fix the issue - your welcome to raise em
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Unread 4 Mar 2015, 15:40   #79
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Re: Round 61 stats

just lowering their ac/dc is enough to me, makes it worth deffing. no need to add killships or change inits, now that they can be killed with reasonable fleet amounts (and not massing off build ships).
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Unread 5 Mar 2015, 00:53   #80
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Re: Round 61 stats

Xan ac dc cant be reduced even more.
They already shoot DE at t2

Make it just to terrans, imho
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Unread 9 Mar 2015, 23:27   #81
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Re: Round 61 stats

Probably already pointed out, cba to scroll, no anti de eta 7?
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Unread 11 Mar 2015, 19:55   #82
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Re: Round 61 stats

A few ppl asked me for a link of my set - here is the last version available
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
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Unread 11 Mar 2015, 20:26   #83
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Re: Round 61 stats

Just having a look at it now, whats the idea behind the inclass firing on CO roid fleets?
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Unread 12 Mar 2015, 00:26   #84
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Re: Round 61 stats

IF you would take time to actually look further into the stats you would see that Fi doesnt really shoot at co only Ter/etd/zik have fi that shoots Co one of which is emp. I think it works, the lack of Xan Hull1 pods means that Fi/co CAN be self targeting and will ultimately result in value war as opposed to just being able to deal enough damage to force a recall. Also considering that BOTH fi and CO have emp options on either side means that you can have these huge team ups and still be able to defend against them.

I am very much in favor m0's Stats they atleast have a sense of balance between the metaclasses and targeting. Where as your set BB is heavily in favor of FR just by sheer number of them in the stats.

in M0's stats:
6 - Fi
8 - Co
7 - Fr
7 - De
8- Cr
5 - Bs

Aside from the only 1 Bs attack fleet and 1 Fi attack Fleet its quite well balanced. But if there were to be limited fleets i would pick the 2 ends of the meta-classes.

I do however see a problem that could come up with Zik Cr given that it has a built in Sk. It might be better off if you moved it BS.
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Unread 12 Mar 2015, 07:19   #85
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I do however see a problem that could come up with Zik Cr given that it has a built in Sk. It might be better off if you moved it BS.
yes, your right.
This was due to the latest change - from 2bs and 1 cr ship to 1bs and 2cr ships

Ziks SK will be moved to BS class before stats may get used
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Unread 13 Mar 2015, 15:38   #86
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Re: Round 61 stats

[13:53] <@Appocomaster> btw for reference I uploaded m0rph3us's stats to http://speedgame.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats
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Unread 13 Mar 2015, 16:05   #87
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Re: Round 61 stats

Thats certainly nice, much easier to view em
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 02:38   #88
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Re: Round 61 stats

I see the etd FI pod has an emp res of 6, is it ok or just a typo ?
All the other attack fleets have an emp res for the pods in range with the other ships of the fleets, requiring to freeze the whole lot.
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 02:57   #89
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Re: Round 61 stats

Its because its cost is much less than others. So it needs a lower Emp res.
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 05:48   #90
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Re: Round 61 stats

That still means it's EMP'd really easily though, but that's only an issue against Etd Fi itself since the Beetle fires after the Creditor. The Gryphon has about 200% efficiency against Etd Fi though.
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 12:57   #91
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Re: Round 61 stats

the pod of etd got a perfectly normal e/r for its cost and gets frozen with the same efficiency as the other fi ships. and the gryphon has 158-162% effiency vs etd fi. This is just a case of not properly knowing how emp resistance work
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 14:04   #92
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Re: Round 61 stats

The astropod does get all frozen before the rest of the etd fi: you only need to freeze 85% of the FI to get all the pods.
Im not sure this is a bad thing tho.
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 14:06   #93
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Re: Round 61 stats

i cant understand that xan FI with e.r=1
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 14:10   #94
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Re: Round 61 stats

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Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
the pod of etd got a perfectly normal e/r for its cost and gets frozen with the same efficiency as the other fi ships. and the gryphon has 158-162% effiency vs etd fi. This is just a case of not properly knowing how emp resistance work
Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not, but you only need about half the value of an attacking Etd Fi fleet in Gryphon to stop it (unless they have a disproportionate amount of pods which would be a huge waste). So effectively it does have 190-200% efficiency against Etd Fi, since you only need to freeze the pods.
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 14:34   #95
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Re: Round 61 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
the pod of etd got a perfectly normal e/r for its cost and gets frozen with the same efficiency as the other fi ships. and the gryphon has 158-162% effiency vs etd fi. This is just a case of not properly knowing how emp resistance work
EMP efficiency is a bad way of gauging the defensive strength of two very differently sized ships, because guns are allocated based on ship numbers only.

Londo has the right way of looking at it. Generally speaking, you want the E/R of pods in a roiding fleet to sit in the middle of its 2 escorting combat ships.
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 14:47   #96
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Re: Round 61 stats

It doesn't even matter what ERes Etd Fi has since there's no ship that EMPs Fi first with a t2 after, and both Fi are guaranteed to fire in any combat. Gryphon/Creditor could have 10 ERes or 100, it would have no effect on anything. The only thing that matters is ERes of the Astropod.

Last edited by Patrikc; 16 Mar 2015 at 15:02. Reason: not 'relative' ERes
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 14:55   #97
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Re: Round 61 stats

I wonder whether the ease with which the astropod is frozen is perhaps deliberate as an aid to cat who need twice the value of the attacking ETD FI in beets to freeze out the pods!
Better to go for spiders I suspect.
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 15:01   #98
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Re: Round 61 stats

A better way to accomplish that is by giving the Beetle a higher ERes. Etd Fi being strong against Etd Fi (or any fleet being strong vs itself) just means more people will go Etd since it's already at 24%.
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 15:48   #99
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Re: Round 61 stats

ETD also happens to be pretty strong defensively against ETD's other attack fleet DE.
A CAT/ETD DE team is pretty hard to stop with FR, but its gonna avoid another ETD who has a number of illuminators and a few investors.
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Unread 16 Mar 2015, 19:45   #100
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Re: Round 61 stats

The beetle wasnt meant to be a solo cover against Etd FI - whereat it becomes more then helpful with any ingal/alliance CO fleet assisting

For the EMP resistance of their pod - yes if stats wasnt final you could rise it a lil to sit between both of their FI
however i dont think its much of an issue - it just forces you to make some more pods then usual

Also how many of those ETD will focus on FI fleets ? And what will an ETD FI fleet focus on, creditor or gryphon?
In the end you have to spent value on seperated anti fi and anti co - where ter, zik, cat all have the option to spent on 1 ship instead and cover both classes with it. Not solo cover - but you rarely get incs in PA to solo cover.
So is the best anti fi the gryphon, or a ship that targets an additional class?

For stopping DE - yes Londo is right, there is a nice opportunity to build illumintor and investor - but thats sitting value that will be missed in either of their attack/defence fleets.
And if etdīs DE fleet is too weak - FR and CR/BS fleets may have their go at them e.g....

So overall I dont think the best counteroption to stop etd is going etd.
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