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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 17:08   #1
Chika
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Oh my lord

This ship production thing has to be the stupidest most idiotic new feature ever implemented on the entire internet. WTF is the point??

I want to build 10k co and it will take 11 ticks!! On priority 1 ship production!!! I guess I won't be prodding out of any incoming this round!
If I only wanted to build 500 co it would take 8 ticks!

What is this?? Is someone trying to force people to quit this game? You don't implement stupid stuff like this on your so called "marketing round".

DAMMIT!
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 17:22   #2
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Re: Oh my lord

Build factories?
priority 1?
Chika, are you trolling again?
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 17:27   #3
Chika
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Re: Oh my lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Build factories?
priority 1?
Chika, are you trolling again?

No. So let me get this straight, the more factories I have, then the faster my ships will produce?
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 17:36   #4
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Re: Oh my lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
No. So let me get this straight, the more factories I have, then the faster my ships will produce?
Pretty much yeah.
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 17:42   #5
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Re: Oh my lord

ok. i didn't know that. Still gay, but that is better than nothing.

peace
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 17:42   #6
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Re: Oh my lord

Yeah because this topic hasn't been covered extensively enough already - it really really really needs a whole new thread.
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 18:14   #7
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Re: Oh my lord

I can make one if you want it Tomkat
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 19:26   #8
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Re: Oh my lord

If chika didn't understand, the average noob who doesn't participate in the metagame is doomed.
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 19:43   #9
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Re: Oh my lord

Tbh, for me at least, the new production/research/construction systems are among the worst new ideas to be implemented.

The system was perfectly good as it was, particularly with the importance of population/government.
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 19:45   #10
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Re: Oh my lord

it's not just you
if the game was a bit hard for the newcomers to follow, with all the races, and the rather complex ship stats, this will just totally baffle them, as it has me.
i don't see the need for this, and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one.
this is one of those changes that lasts a single round because of the major dissapointments it creates
good work
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 19:48   #11
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Re: Oh my lord

There's nothing wrong with construction and research, they are pretty intuitive.
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Unread 26 Jun 2007, 20:24   #12
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Re: Oh my lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
it's not just you
if the game was a bit hard for the newcomers to follow, with all the races, and the rather complex ship stats, this will just totally baffle them, as it has me.
i don't see the need for this, and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one.
this is one of those changes that lasts a single round because of the major dissapointments it creates
good work
Stop being shit.
I like it, learn to use it.
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 03:32   #13
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Re: Oh my lord

what, it did force people to rethink their tick plans ?
minimum 3 factories to have decent prod time... so be it.
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 06:51   #14
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Re: Oh my lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
There's nothing wrong with construction and research, they are pretty intuitive.
I completely disagree.

I still think production has been nerfed. Research hasn't greatly advanced much, and the only intuitive thing about construction is to que constructions. This just appears to be a feature that was made for the sake of adding on a new feature. It doesn't appear to add any real value to the game, or the way we play the game.
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 08:35   #15
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Re: Oh my lord

"I don't see how this is better than the way it was", is not the same as "I think this is worse than the way it was". Besides, I do see things that have improved since last round.

Personally, I like how there are no longer 'optimal' values to put your population on. Last round there was no point to put your population for construction on 33, it would take just as long as with 26. The same applied for research, but the optimal values were different for each research. This meant that you would either spend 30 minutes calculating what the best value to put your population for research on, or use an external calc of some sort for 15 minutes.

This round, you can just put whatever percentage population on research you like, and any excess points are used for the next research. Same applies for constructions. This, to me, is the major advantage of this system, as opposed to last round's. There is no need for yet another external calculator, to add to the list already required.

That said, it seems the vision that led to this improved research and construction has completely passed by production. It's complicated and unintuitive, it's different for various races and various governments, and I'm not sure what the goal of changing it was. The problem with production is that, to self-cover, its eta needs to be exact, which can make for a lot of order tweaking, while for research and construction, the need to do so is not so pressing. Besides, you have the freedom to halt and resume research, so you don't really need to get up at night to start a new one. Just start a new, long one when you go to bed, and restart the old one when you wake up. This is a freedom you don't have with production. You can't halt and resume incomings.

By the way, queuing constructions has been implemented since r21.
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 08:41   #16
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Re: Oh my lord

it'll go for next round i presume, the complete buffoons who are known as the pa team don't have enough pride to swallow to have got it out for this round already
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 08:55   #17
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Re: Oh my lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
I completely disagree.

I still think production has been nerfed. Research hasn't greatly advanced much, and the only intuitive thing about construction is to que constructions. This just appears to be a feature that was made for the sake of adding on a new feature. It doesn't appear to add any real value to the game, or the way we play the game.
With research you can pause and start researches which is incredibly useful if you know you are going to be away for a while but don't want to go into vacation mode as you can start a long research. Now its technically possible to do a lot more with research e.g. auto queuing of the next research in the same branch, full queuing. However we didn't do that as we thought it would lower the value of activity too much.

If people have ideas for enhancing the current systems for enxt round please do suggest them on the suggestions forum.
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 09:17   #18
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Re: Oh my lord

Not fond of the new productionscheme either, but another thing that annoys me is research in roidmining.
Do we realy need 20 steps in roidmining research?. 1-3 would be more then enough
Ie
1. > 500
2. > 1000
3. 1000 >
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 09:30   #19
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Thumbs up Re: Oh my lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allfather
Not fond of the new productionscheme either, but another thing that annoys me is research in roidmining.
Do we realy need 20 steps in roidmining research?. 1-3 would be more then enough
Ie
1. > 500
2. > 1000
3. 1000 >

the best thing that I have read in long time
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 10:37   #20
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Re: Oh my lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clunge
Tbh, for me at least, the new production/research/construction systems are among the worst new ideas to be implemented.
I disagree. I've not been particularly active this round, and I have no desire to be waking myself up in the middle of the night to flick on a research or a construction.

This way, I can happily queue up a couple of constructions in the evening, and have them both finished by the time I wake up.

Research is even better - I currently have 3 researches ALMOST finished (2 ticks left) as I just turn them off when I go to bed, and start a long new one (if I know I won't be using the computer for 6+ hours). Then in the morning, when I'm at the computer, I finish off all the ones that are left. Bingo - the same result with little to no effort!

This new system is really nice - well done PA Team.
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 15:16   #21
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Re: Oh my lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allfather
Not fond of the new productionscheme either, but another thing that annoys me is research in roidmining.
Do we realy need 20 steps in roidmining research?. 1-3 would be more then enough
Ie
1. > 500
2. > 1000
3. 1000 >
I disagree. This way top planets have another branch of research to watch, meaning they have less chance to become totally selfdependent. Call it an extra challenge, for those who're already on top of things. It's a feature that very much implements the idea of "easy to learn, hard to master", which in my opinion is the most important game design principle there is. So, big no-no from me.
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 16:16   #22
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Re: Oh my lord

hct is good, research is getting better, cons are getting somewhere, production is hilariously badly misguided
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 18:54   #23
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Re: Oh my lord

Heh, top guys my ass.
HCT research has nothing to do with how good a player is or not.
Its just one more annoying and long thing in a game thats loosing its appeal to most people.
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 20:13   #24
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Re: Oh my lord

i actually agree with allfather on something...
i'm so going to hell for this
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Unread 27 Jun 2007, 20:51   #25
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Re: Oh my lord

Personally i like most of the changes made past and this round (so despite what you think Cin, you and the rest of PaTeam have done a good job), specially the potential they have (as already has been mentioned by Tomkat here and on the suggestions forum). I just think that some things, like production, could be balanced better and/or made easier to use and understand. Tying production to factories makes sense to me at least, the only downside is that in its current form its quite hard to predict the influence of more factories on one order (without having to calc alot).
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Unread 28 Jun 2007, 14:43   #26
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Re: Oh my lord

I actually quite like the new research/ construction/production. Though I agree with Allfather, they could do with removing some of the HC researches. Not necessarily down to three, but they do seem to increase too slowly.
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Unread 28 Jun 2007, 17:15   #27
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Re: Oh my lord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
If people have ideas for enhancing the current systems for enxt round please do suggest them on the suggestions forum.
Cue lots of posts about reusing the old round 2 codebase. Now that was n00b friendly.
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