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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 15:30   #1
Deffeh
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Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

i know im a bit of a butt when it comes to this sort of thing. I drink probiotic yogurts, take cod liver oil capsules, eat multivitamin sweets, and i drink a smoothie every day.

This is partly because im into healthy living, partly because i do a lot of sport and im trying to get well conditioned, and partly because anything i can do to offset my terrible habits of sitting inside without sunlight and adding cheese to every meal this side of cereal.

On top of this ive just started taking Multivitamins + Multiminerals (to replace the expensive yet tasty Multivitamin sweets) and Korean Ginseng.

I'm 75% expecting the Korean Ginseng to be essentially a brown looking placebo, but id be interested to know if anyones had any experience with it / knows if its any good.


The Multivit/Multimin pack though seems like a ridiculously exceptional idea. Each dailly pill contains

100% RDA of:

Vitamins A, B1, B5, B6, B7, B12, C, D, E

As well as a shit load other minerals like calcium and iron and shit.

Now, how can this be bad? Or more to the point, why doesnt everyone do this? Given how appalling our modern diets are this doesnt seem like a bad option to me at something like 10p a pill. Is anyone else into this?
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 15:37   #2
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

I don't have much experience with vitamin supplements but it's general known in healthy circles that you should try to get everything from your normal diete. They're supplements for a reason. You say modern diets are appalling but nobody is telling you how to compose your diet or do they? What's the problem in making sure youre food intake is constant and balanced?

As far I know, Ginseng increases your metabolism. I could be wrong though and I'm too busy right now to look it up.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 15:38   #3
Dante Hicks
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Discounting illegals, I take daily :
- a Berocca multivitamin effervescent thing (I'm a fag who can't swallow)
- 1tsp of some fish oil thing allegedly designed to assist eye/brain functions
- 1st of letchin granules
- 3 x tsp of piracetam

I have my doubts whether vitamins do anything, I suspect most things pass through you on the whole, but I doubt they do much harm (at least compared to the other damage I do to myself).

A "healthy" routine probably promotes a more positive attitude to life, and a "healthier" outlook which is almost certainly more important than how much riboflavin you get in your diet.

Last edited by Dante Hicks; 24 Apr 2007 at 15:44.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 15:40   #4
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

my problem is i like good food too much, and especially cheese. i dont eat a lot of takeout - (in 2003 i decided to never again eat mcdonalds/burgerking/kfc/pizzahut/dominos) and i quit kebabs in 2006 (that was possibly the saddest day of my life). I used to drink nothing but soft drinks and ive cut down considerably on them since, and i drink alcohol probably on average once a week.

Sadly however, im the kind of guy that likes steak for breakfast and waffles with cheese as a 2am snack. I love good food too much and thats not going to change, so its a case of looking at the alternatives
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 15:44   #5
Deffeh
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Discounting illegals, I take daily :
- a Berocca multivitamin effervescent thing (I'm a fag who can't swallow)
- 1tsp of some fish oil thing allegedly designed to assist eye/brain functions
- 1st if letchin granules
- 3 x tsp of piracetam

I have my doubts whether vitamins do anything, I suspect most things pass through you on the whole, but I doubt they do much harm (at least compared to the other damage I do to myself).

A "healthy" routine probably promotes a more positive attitude to life, and a "healthier" outlook which is almost certainly more important than how much riboflavin you get in your diet.
well, it depends what way round you make that. Im trying to build my life from the bottom up by being healthier, more physically fit, more mentally aware etc, and maybe one day ill be able to rebuild some of the other shit thats gone wrong. This is certainly a better place to be than eating fish and chips and drinking coca cola every day of the week, for example.

The fish oil will be cod liver oil surely.

What are letchin granules and piracetam?
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 15:45   #6
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

You need to reconsider your definition of good food. For example, steak for breakfast isn't a biggy. Steak mostly consists of protein and a very little bit of fat (taken you got quality steak). Just bake it in something like olive oil to keep it ok.

There is so much good food that is actually good food.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 15:47   #7
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Fish is excellent if you prepare it without added fats. They mainly consist of proteins and unsaturated fats.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 15:55   #8
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
well, it depends what way round you make that. Im trying to build my life from the bottom up by being healthier, more physically fit, more mentally aware etc, and maybe one day ill be able to rebuild some of the other shit thats gone wrong.
You're probably right, I suppose I've always come from the other side. I used to eat a shit load (although I've never been above 12st and I'm 6ft'2") but in retrospect I always felt tired, not sharp as I'd like, unable to concentrate, etc. While I love a good steak / chocolate cake, these things seem particularly bad - how many people fall asleep after Sunday dinner?

Quote:
The fish oil will be cod liver oil surely.
No, I used to take that, it's some Omega-3 thing designed for middle class idiots who think their kids are stupid.

Piracetam is a nootropric supplement designed to improve concentration, memory, cognitive performance, etc. I discuss it on my last blog entry. It's not illegal, but you can't buy it in the UK (I don't think).

I'm quite keen to try Modafinil too. (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6558871.stm)
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 15:58   #9
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

well, im also a sucker for breaded things and pasties and other stodgy stuff like that. Im trying to eat more salad - i had a lovely honey and mustard goats cheese salad on breaded chicken last week - but im all about the casseroles and bologneses and shit.

Also i eat 4/5 meals a day (if cereal counts :/)
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 16:38   #10
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
You're probably right, I suppose I've always come from the other side. I used to eat a shit load (although I've never been above 12st and I'm 6ft'2") but in retrospect I always felt tired, not sharp as I'd like, unable to concentrate, etc. While I love a good steak / chocolate cake, these things seem particularly bad - how many people fall asleep after Sunday dinner?


No, I used to take that, it's some Omega-3 thing designed for middle class idiots who think their kids are stupid.

Piracetam is a nootropric supplement designed to improve concentration, memory, cognitive performance, etc. I discuss it on my last blog entry. It's not illegal, but you can't buy it in the UK (I don't think).

I'm quite keen to try Modafinil too. (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6558871.stm)
I just read it, very interesting and something id like to try. Where did you procure it from? (and what are letchin granules?)
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 17:09   #11
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
I just read it, very interesting and something id like to try. Where did you procure it from? (and what are letchin granules?)
Letchin granules are a source of choline which is supposed to aid the uptake of piracetam. I got those from a Holland and Barratt type shop on the high street. Piracetam I had to order online - from here (mods can ban me for advertising I guess).

The other stuff I'm not sure where you can get it from, although when I was briefly involved in a medical trial for amphetamine users in Cambridge the doctor was raving about something and I think it was that. I presume you'd have to get it from "the street" at present.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 17:17   #12
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Now, how can this be bad? Or more to the point, why doesnt everyone do this?
I don't because I'm always reading stories about how such things have no benefit or are actually bad for you. This kind of thing I mean.

Also my diet is fairly good atm so I don't really feel I need to.

Probiotic yogurts rock though, I think I'm addicted to them.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 17:38   #13
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

I find it difficult to take most longitudinal studies seriously when it comes to questions of general health. If it's very specific then maybe over a long enough/wide enough study you can probably prove some really banal point ("breathing smoke into your lungs thirty or forty times a day for most of your life probably doesn't lead to everlasting life") but when it comes to something more specific and subtle (e.g. effects of taking an additional 100mg of Vitamin C a day) they seem less useful, at least as a one-off. Genetic differences, random lifestyle things and dietary variations are simply too wide to control for, even in a massive experiment. If something like (say) clinical depression is linked to how many times your mother masturbated with her left hand during gestation but only if she had carrots more than three times a week then it might be that a lot of studies in place now are wasting their time. Not that is that likely, admittedly.

Anyway it seems fairly obvious what's good and what's bad for you. Exercise moderately, don't drink a litre of gin for breakfast and for god's sake, put the fork down once in a while.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 17:58   #14
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

To echo what SS said, one of my friends did a nutrition course and i remember them saying something along the lines of most multivitamins, especially at the cheaper end of the market are little more than placebos mainly because the compounds the vitamins are attached to in the tablets don't break down effeciently in your stomach. The only way to get benefits from vitamins is to go for the more specialist brands rather than tesco's own multivitamins etc. And even then as SS says its only meant to supplement a proper meal.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 18:08   #15
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

as i said, i drink a homemade smoothie a day in a properly expensive smoothie machine, i cant remember what type it is but one of them you lose all the goodness, something to do with it heating up the center or some shit, in mine you dont. So i get my 5 a day.

I also bought the more expensive vit pills. To be honest my conclusion is pretty much that im not that bothered if they turn out to have little or no effect or are placebos. I've certainly spent a lot worse £7's in my life and im sure they'll at least have some sort of psychological knock on effect of me doing something positive for myself, or something
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 18:39   #16
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

I take a multivitamin and multimineral tablet every day. I've been doing it on and off for about 7 years now.

When I stop taking the pills I actually feel physically worse. Not hugely, but noticeably. Also the only time I ever get ill (cold, flu, stuff like that) is when I haven't been taking my pills for a few months.

So for me at least taking vitam supplements seems to be worth it. Then again I do concede that it's possibly just a placebo.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 18:56   #17
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
Then again I do concede that it's possibly just a placebo.
In practical terms, this wouldn't really matterif was though, would it?
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 18:57   #18
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

I doubt that any multivitamins are bad for you. At worst, they'll be a placebo that you've wasted 10p on.

Surely if they were a huge massive scam then someone would have investigated properly by now? I know that's a terrible way to look at it (relying on others to do the research) but if there was quantifiable evidence to show that it's all baloney I'm sure it would have emerged by now.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 19:00   #19
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

As i concluded before, when you consider the numerous terrible ways to waste between 5 and 10 quid - a shit bit on a stupid accy - two pints - half a pizza from dominoes - attempting to get 90 days worth of vitamins and minerals doesnt feel like something im going to list on my will as my greatest regret.


Also dante, $40 postage? were you feeling flush?

Im considering ebaying it but ebaying drugs might be the stupidest thing ive ever done
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 19:09   #20
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm quite keen to try Modafinil too. (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6558871.stm)
Quote:
The UK Government is sufficiently concerned about them to have asked an expert group to assess their impact on medicine and their potential social impact.

One woman commented: "If, in the future, there are cognition tablets for exams and I wasn't happy for my children to take them, would I be disadvantaging them against those children that actually take them?"]
I despise this country more than words can possibly express
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 19:14   #21
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Also dante, $40 postage? were you feeling flush?
I'm sure I've bored you with the story of how I lost £5,000 in a few minutes. Money doesn't actually mean anything anymore aside from a source of irritation when I have to walk most of the way home from work because I'm broke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I despise this country more than words can possibly express
Yeah, that even pissed me off too.

(Aside from the mindlessness of it, by that logic we should ban private tutors or reading to your kids or whatever).
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 19:33   #22
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I despise this country more than words can possibly express
Be reasonable! Do we really want
Quote:
one of those dictatorial type states where we have to take drugs to get better and faster to work longer hours?
Imagine if this really works and the government puts it in the water.* What dictator doesn't want a country full of super-intelligent thinkers to fully contemplate the glorious nature of their Divine Vision!

Increased social intellect is the greatest threat to democracy since Saddam Hussein. think about it people!**


*'It's flouride for our brain!'
**but not too much as that poses a real and specific threat to our democratic freedoms
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 20:03   #23
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

just be careful not to OD on anything.

too much iron is probably the worst although excess calcium and vitamin d will haunt your bowels in later life
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 20:07   #24
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

I don't take any supplements be it parcetamol, vitamins etc.

I never get ill, this is no joke.

I just don't get ill.

I eat homemade food, maybe a bit too much but still. I don't mind getting dirty and my parents let me run around as kid.
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 20:26   #25
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
I don't take any supplements be it parcetamol, vitamins etc.

I never get ill, this is no joke.

I just don't get ill.

I eat homemade food, maybe a bit too much but still. I don't mind getting dirty and my parents let me run around as kid.
yes but to be fair you're ten years away from a coronary and you think paracetamol is a food supplement
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 20:26   #26
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
I don't take any supplements be it parcetamol, vitamins etc.

I never get ill, this is no joke.

I just don't get ill.
I used to say exactly the same thing. I was very rarely ill.

Then I got cancer.

So watch what you say duder, don't tempt fate!




(i'm not even trying to make a funny here - that's why i didnt really know how to deal with it. i'd never been properly ill before in my life and almost considering myself as a bit "invincible" when it came to illness. that's why it took me about two months to get properly diagnosed. i just battled on through all the symptoms like extreme tiredness and complete loss of appetite, writing it off as feeling a "bit peaky")
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 20:27   #27
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
(in 2003 i decided to never again eat mcdonalds/burgerking/kfc/pizzahut/dominos) and i quit kebabs in 2006

February 2000 was the last time i ate McDonalds/Burger King/KFC (it was a BK meal when very hungover that was the final straw) and i quit kebabs in 2005. I can't actually remember the last time i ate a pizzahut or dominos but it's probably at least a couple of years ago (i've not declared them no go places though). It's pizzas and chips 'n' cheese that do it for me when drunk.


[/just mentioning it]
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 20:28   #28
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
yes but to be fair you're ten years away from a coronary and you think paracetamol is a food supplement
Paracetemol is a supplement for endorphins
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Unread 24 Apr 2007, 20:49   #29
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
yes but to be fair you're ten years away from a coronary and you think paracetamol is a food supplement
I will be size zero soon, if I carry on being ballemic it's achievable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I used to say exactly the same thing. I was very rarely ill.

Then I got cancer.

So watch what you say duder, don't tempt fate!
That's my worry I guess. I think I can't get ill then one day I get something terrible and through my own stubidness I don't get it diagnosed until too late.

My friend who is fit and healthy is constantly ill. But I believe it's in the head. He is always saying "I have a headache" etc and that's what makes him ill.

In all fairness he did find out today he has jaundice.
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Unread 25 Apr 2007, 15:48   #30
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Can you get them in dissolvable packs or something? If they vitamins are already broken down before they enter the body wouldn't that increase their uptake once in the body?
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Unread 25 Apr 2007, 15:54   #31
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
In all fairness he did find out today he has jaundice.
Didn't you think to mention his stupidly orange 'fake tan' or were you trying to be polite?
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Unread 25 Apr 2007, 16:04   #32
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
i like good food
Quote:
waffles with cheese
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Unread 25 Apr 2007, 16:41   #33
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

I think by "good food" he means he likes stuff that is easy to make and tastes good, but isn't necessarily healthy (or contributing to the 5-fruit-and-veg-a-day thing). Things like pizza, chips, burgers, toast. That's how I understood it anyway.
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Unread 25 Apr 2007, 16:59   #34
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

only tomkat understands me.

i basically like eating whatever the **** i want and trying to get my nutrients and stuff elsewhere
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Unread 25 Apr 2007, 17:10   #35
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Can you get them in dissolvable packs or something? If they vitamins are already broken down before they enter the body wouldn't that increase their uptake once in the body?
Not nessecarily, the solid ones will get broken down in the stomach anyway. Mostly the vitamins form an complex that could be soluble, but poorly absorbed in the stomach/rest of you.

Soluble tablets generally only help things get absorbed more quickly.
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Unread 27 Apr 2007, 15:15   #36
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

I try and have five portions of fruit and veg every day. The vegetables are steam cooked for extra nutrient content; but I also take the following every day:
One multi-vitamin
2-4 Vitamin B tablets (I drink a fair bit)
1 cod liver oil capsule
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Unread 27 Apr 2007, 23:01   #37
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Can you get them in dissolvable packs or something? If they vitamins are already broken down before they enter the body wouldn't that increase their uptake once in the body?

You can get direct vitamin injections, which do work and iirc is part of the way that the beautiful people and celebrities can go from being fatty to gorgeous in unfeasibly short amounts of time, or manage to stay upright whilst eating one peanut a day. But the best way to 'eat' vitamins is from a foodstuff that naturally it.
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Unread 27 Apr 2007, 23:31   #38
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proxi
Soluble tablets generally only help things get absorbed more quickly.
But isn't that all that matters? Getting them absorbed?
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Unread 27 Apr 2007, 23:51   #39
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Didn't you think to mention his stupidly orange 'fake tan' or were you trying to be polite?
He's Indian, hard to tell innit.

But then his eyes turned yellow, but by that time he had self diagnosed himself and been referred to the Hospital by his doctor.
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Unread 28 Apr 2007, 07:35   #40
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
You can get direct vitamin injections, which do work and iirc is part of the way that the beautiful people and celebrities can go from being fatty to gorgeous in unfeasibly short amounts of time, or manage to stay upright whilst eating one peanut a day. But the best way to 'eat' vitamins is from a foodstuff that naturally it.
milo is right.
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Unread 28 Apr 2007, 10:54   #41
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

i will remember this for when im rich*


above minimum wage and not spending money on kids or women
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Unread 28 Apr 2007, 11:44   #42
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Sweeties?
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Unread 30 Apr 2007, 10:33   #43
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

I've tried taking vitamin tablets a few times, and been told I should take iron ones by the hospital. Aside from the fact iron supplements seem to make me sick, for the life of me I just cannot remember to take them everyday. You would think after 12 years of being on daily medication I would be able to master that, but nooooo.
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Unread 30 Apr 2007, 20:30   #44
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by midge5
I've tried taking vitamin tablets a few times, and been told I should take iron ones by the hospital. Aside from the fact iron supplements seem to make me sick, for the life of me I just cannot remember to take them everyday. You would think after 12 years of being on daily medication I would be able to master that, but nooooo.
you don't need vitamins.

you need growth hormones.
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Unread 4 May 2007, 09:48   #45
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm sure I've bored you with the story of how I lost 5,000 in a few minutes. Money doesn't actually mean anything anymore aside from a source of irritation when I have to walk most of the way home from work because I'm broke.

Yeah, that even pissed me off too.

(Aside from the mindlessness of it, by that logic we should ban private tutors or reading to your kids or whatever).
hey man am I the particular fellow mentioned in your last blog entry?
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Unread 5 May 2007, 08:30   #46
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
hey man am I the particular fellow mentioned in your last blog entry?
Yeah. Or the one before last now.

I have an aversion to using people's names in company of people who don't know the person, if that makes sense, so I tend to refer to people as a friend, or person I know - unless that's unworkable.
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Unread 5 May 2007, 11:51   #47
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

You've outdone yourself darian, that last blog entry is exceptional.
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Unread 5 May 2007, 14:29   #48
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
You've outdone yourself darian, that last blog entry is exceptional.
Yes it is.

I laughed out loud at "After being read one set of rights, I was told I could request a copy of the rule book which governed police behaviour in these circumstances. I said yes, Id like to see it, to which there was a sort of awkward silence.
UmIm not actually sure we have one. Its just sort of something we say. "
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Unread 5 May 2007, 16:39   #49
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

Thanks guys. It's nice to know the violence inherent in the system can have a silver-lining.
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Unread 5 May 2007, 17:09   #50
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Re: Vitamin Tablets and their ilk.

You're a hero Darian, if I can make half as many quips and ask half as many awkward questions when i'm (inevitably) arrested then I'll be happy

(this thread is now about dante's blog)
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