The Exile System

[Appocomaster]

Several people have recently asked me how the exile system works, so it might be easier to make a thread about it.

The exile system has stayed almost identical in the last 8 or so rounds, but it has been discussed. A few of the discussions can be found here:
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=194100 (XelNaga's views) http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=194006 (Remy's views)
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=193852 (New Planets)
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=193431 (A suggested change to the system by me)
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?p=3096653 (Jester's rework of Planetarion, containing an element on exile)

This thread will start by explaining the thread, but in case it ends up as a discussion of it, the above threads are some of the more recent (though certainly by no means all of the) exile threads.

Whether you self exile or are placed back into the "active" universe (non c200 universe) when you log in to your c200 planet, the same formula is used.

All of the galaxies are listed in order of planet size (the order when the planet size is the same is random). This does not include 1:1. The list starts with the smallest galaxies and ends up with the bigger galaxies.
The top 20% of the list is taken. At this particular time, there are 168 non c200/ 1:1 galaxies. This means that a list of 42 galaxies is produced. From this list of 42 galaxies, one galaxy is selected at random. The planet is then placed in there.

The number of planets in each galaxy is calculated at exile time, not taken from the number of planets at the beginning or end of a tick.

It is NOT based on the number of people exiled, the number of "spaces" (missing numbers) in the galaxy, whether it's your best friend in the whole world who you really really want in your galaxy or anything else. Whether the planet is a new signup, or has been around since the start of the game, each planet is treated the same way. As a side note, new planets are now placed in c200 and so aren't placed into the active universe until they have first logged in.

Every galaxy has an equal* chance of being selected once on the list - if you have 1 planet you're as likely to be selected as if you're right on the borderline.

Also, due to the fact that within the "brackets" of number of planets everything galaxy is placed randomly, if galaxys 40-60 in the list have the same number of planets, only 2 of the 60 would make it through to the list each time to be selected from.




*Assuming that all the mysql 5 and perl random functions we use are equal, which I assume they are. I'm sure Heartless, Jesterina or someone will correct me

[pig]

What gripes me about the exiling system is what I am about to list below.

I am in planet 1:2:3
I exile
I am now planet 4:5:6
I exile
I am now planet 1:2:3 again.

How is this allowed? Why is this allowed?

Why can't we be compensated in some way, and why isn't it in the code to prevent me from landing in the same galaxy twice in one tick (or I dare say more times if I had the resources.)

[Proxi]

Agreed. Landing back in the same galaxy again is ridiculously frustrating.

[JonnyBGood]

This has now happened to three people I know in the space of twelve hours. Fairly silly.

[Nolez]

Happened to me too. Please tell me we can get a free exile or something out of it at least... or maybe some sort of resources back? I'm not trying to waste 300k of each resource

[pig]

Oh we can't Nolez.

Even though in the past if this has happened pa team has given you a free exile, #support in their wiseness seem to abide by the rule "tough luck".

[Kal]

Could have an exemption list - currently when you exile you can't end up in your current galaxy, perhaps the last X galaxies should be exempt as well. The danager here is that if X gets too big then exile can become too predictable.

[Heartless]

Originally Posted by Kal

Could have an exemption list - currently when you exile you can't end up in your current galaxy, perhaps the last X galaxies should be exempt as well. The danager here is that if X gets too big then exile can become too predictable.

You might want to increase reason for staying inside a galaxy then. See jesterina's "What I'd change and how I'd do it" thread on suggestions, exit should be the very last option.

[Chef!]

I seem to recall making a post on the PATeam forums before i left when this issue was discussed there and my suggestion was this...

Planet exiles from galaxy 1:5 can land anywhere but 1:5 lands in 5:6
Planet exiles from galaxy 5:6 can land anywhere but 1:5 and 5:6 lands in 4:2
Planet exiles from galaxy 4:2 can land anywhere but 5:6 and 4:2 lands in 7:1
Planet exiles from galaxy 7:1 can land anywhere but 4:2 and 7:1 lands in 2:9

So basically the planet exiling can land anywhere but its current galaxy or the last galaxy it was in. This would not only help out those landing in the same galaxies but it would also limit how many times people exiled, basically giving them two shots at the system before they started to risk ending up back where they started. I think making the "exception list" as Kal put it any longer than that would just encourage people to exile more.

[Crowly]

Just get rid of the exile system completely, make people play with the hands they are dealt and stop being such whingey little girls.

[GReaper]

One issue which you haven't mentioned in this thread is the cost of a galaxy exile:

(value/10)*(number of galaxy exiles so far for gal+2)/2

A top ranking galaxy pays the exact same amount of resources as the lowest galaxy to exile a particular player. The top ranking galaxies earn these resources far more quickly than a lower ranking galaxy so find it easier to find the resources to exile.

Higher galaxies can go through their exiles faster, increasing the chance of getting a better replacement. Surely the cost should be based on the size of the galaxy?

[Walldo]

Originally Posted by GReaper

Higher galaxies can go through their exiles faster, increasing the chance of getting a better replacement. Surely the cost should be based on the size of the galaxy?

Not correct, My gal has a high value, but we are value players, We don't have a hughe roids count, galaxies 40 ranks below us still have more roids. With this roidswapping competition you can't say anything about exile on value.

And why should we be punished for doing 1 exile with a hughe cost, while some are doing like 20 for cheap for the same price.

[Remy]

disable exiles, solved

[Shyne]

Self exile is too expensive.

It's not fair to remove the exile system while inactive players still exist.

[Heartless]

Removing self-exile, increasing bp size to 5 and keeping galaxies at 7 people default might be a possible solution.

[Tietäjä]

Originally Posted by GReaper

Higher galaxies can go through their exiles faster, increasing the chance of getting a better replacement. Surely the cost should be based on the size of the galaxy?

If you had said "more active galaxies", you might have found a good point there.

[BloodyButcher]

Originally Posted by Heartless

Removing self-exile, increasing bp size to 5 and keeping galaxies at 7 people default might be a possible solution.

Ive gone random the last rounds ive played, isnt it kind of stupid if i landed in a inaktive gal and wernt allowed to self exile?
To new players wich maybe dont have a pack to buddy up with, isnt this kind of stupid for them aswell?

[Aragno]

Originally Posted by Kal

Could have an exemption list - currently when you exile you can't end up in your current galaxy, perhaps the last X galaxies should be exempt as well. The danager here is that if X gets too big then exile can become too predictable.

I'd say predicting where you land would not be that big a problem. As each time you pay more to exile you'd need insane amounts of res to exile enough to be able to predict where you land by any certainty.

Now at my 5 exile and this is my current cost:

Yes, I am 100% sure that I wish to leave this galaxy. I understand that it will cost me 1421638 metal, 1421638 crystal and 1421638 eonium, which will be donated directly to the galaxy fund

[Almeida]

Originally Posted by Heartless

Removing self-exile, increasing bp size to 5 and keeping galaxies at 7 people default might be a possible solution.

excellent idea! this way you have at least 4 active ppl with you (suppose noone packs with inactives) and if you are unlucky, two totally useless planets in the gal. i guess everyone could live with that, at least i could.

second advantage: if a new player signs up he most likely will feel more welcome (as he can't be exiled) and the galaxy will be more willing to teach him and integrate him.

edit: a BP size of 5 is a neccessary condition to remove the exile system; as it is now with a BP of 3 you can't even control a galaxy if you are unlucky and get no active random. also the default galaxy size can't be bigger than 7 coz the lucky galaxies who get only active randoms would have a too big advantage over the gals that get only buggers.

[Ultimate Newbie]

What about all those new players who dont sign up in a buddy pack? there will be lots and lots of galaxies with no "active" or knowledgeable people in them, if you force gals to be of 7 people in size. So, lots and lots of these new signups will be terribly lonely with no-one to ask or talk to.

That's the tradeoff - is it worth it?

Maybe.

Is it worth a try?

Perhaps .

[viC]

^bump

my gripe:

Tonights exile bracket was 9. I understand this means some galaxies with 10 people in them are also included in the exile pool, but would it not be logical to weight the final result based on the planets in a galaxy? Simply include a weighting factor for each galaxy depending on where it falls related to the bracket:

- bracket is 9
- galaxy has 9: weight +1
- galaxy has 8: weight +2
- galaxy has 10: weight -1
etc

This would mean you actually end up in a galaxy that needs the extra players [or one that is active enough to exile its useless planets to enter that bracket]

Tonight I exiled 4 times. 3 of those times I landed in galaxies with 10 planets [i was the eleventh]. Every single time I landed in a galaxy where I was the largest planet [and i'm tiny]

Originally Posted by shitty exile system

Yes, I am 100% sure that I wish to leave this galaxy. I understand that it will cost me 2124707 metal, 2124707 crystal and 2124707 eonium, which will be donated directly to the galaxy fund of 3:7 over which I will have no control.

I'm lucky, this one seems to have two whole people that discovered the ingame forums.


Horay. :(

[ReligFree]

Had the same problems. Eventually managed to find a decent gal after the 6th Exile, was top20 when i first had to exile, now out of top200 due to the crappy exile system. Had me on the verge of quitting if i didnt get a good gal next.

[viC]

Well I've been told that I'm way too fat [with a ratio of 7.9] and should expect incs without defence. I suppose I'll have to pony up the extortionate exile costs, bringing my total spent exiling to ~12m.

I understand that whining about it wont get it sorted now, but I believe this is a big issue that needs to be dealt with before next round so that we don't end up with the same retarded system.

You should provide incentives for people to play random planets, you should allow new players that have gone random the chance to land in a decent galaxy, and you should encourage experienced players to go random and still have a chance at a decent finish. The exile system as it is now is an extremely half-assed implementation of something that was obviously not properly thought out.