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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 19:36   #51
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
Jester's stats were quite good, and he certainly hasn't gone anywhere.

Read "Suggestions" forum more often
Wasn't Jester the one that made the stats in round 13, with fi class stealers targetting cath cr?
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 19:47   #52
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Wasn't Jester the one that made the stats in round 13, with fi class stealers targetting cath cr?
But we all know only target, class and initiative, and the Tarantula had better initiative than the Corsair, therefore it was better!
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 19:57   #53
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Re: r21 stats

what the **** is the matter with this thread, it said gio2k replied but ican't see it, then it said jester replied and i can't see that either
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 20:30   #54
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Re: r21 stats

Ur comp sux jer
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 21:52   #55
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Re: r21 stats

i clould say that i like r20 stats. They are alot better then the last rond i played. I don`t remember when that was but i was a Terran and evry frickin xan could of kill me what ever i do. Now it`s not like that...

Every race can build a fleet to protect it self from all races. This is something beter for me...
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 22:16   #56
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by CryingOrc
Every race can build a fleet to protect it self from all races. This is something beter for me...
I must have missed those races on the stats page, can you tell me where it is pls
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 02:43   #57
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Re: r21 stats

Indeed. Get rid of the flaming smilies please (JJ really, not just CryingOrc)
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 12:38   #58
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Re: r21 stats

I really think the stats should be simplified. Give every1 the same ships with each race having the option to build a different pod ship (make fr a universal pod), xan fi pod, terran de pod, cath cr pod, zik bs pod and leave it at tthat.

How about a classic round using r3 stats? could even bring back pds!
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 10:02   #59
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Re: r21 stats

Pds Ftw!
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 10:15   #60
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kileman
I really think the stats should be simplified. Give every1 the same ships with each race having the option to build a different pod ship (make fr a universal pod), xan fi pod, terran de pod, cath cr pod, zik bs pod and leave it at tthat.

How about a classic round using r3 stats? could even bring back pds!
A R3* style setup where there was "war" and "science" was tried during a speedgame recently. The end result was that people were actually disapointed with the lack of variety of units, the lack of tactical opportunity and the much greater difficulty in attacking. They were so hostile that it had to be changed back in fairly short order, even when the two branches were more or less in 'balance'. Imagine what would happen if one side was significantly better than the other (like R3, Battleships/Tarants).

*ok, it was more like R5. :\

On the issue of PDS, its been said time and time again that it just plain doesnt work. Please do a forum search for the reasons why.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 10:19   #61
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Re: r21 stats

what? a lot of people loved war/science :/
edit: in the world cup speedgames that is
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 10:22   #62
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Re: r21 stats

War/Science stats were some of the best in recent PA history
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 10:23   #63
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Re: r21 stats

All races a FR ship was the best. Xan-Cath-ter a special pod and zik only the Fr pod.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 10:25   #64
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
what? a lot of people loved war/science :/
edit: in the world cup speedgames that is
Really? All i heard was whinging.

Indeed, i'm pretty sure i mentioned to appoco that the only good thing with those stats is that he and i got to play a bit of 1 on 1 speedgame to test out the stats to see how balanced they were.

The bad news is, i lost .
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 11:24   #65
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Really? All i heard was whinging.

Indeed, i'm pretty sure i mentioned to appoco that the only good thing with those stats is that he and i got to play a bit of 1 on 1 speedgame to test out the stats to see how balanced they were.

The bad news is, i lost .
think you have proven by now that you dont have a clue about stats :/
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 11:44   #66
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Really? All i heard was whinging.

Indeed, i'm pretty sure i mentioned to appoco that the only good thing with those stats is that he and i got to play a bit of 1 on 1 speedgame to test out the stats to see how balanced they were.

The bad news is, i lost .
The stats were brilliant.

They were very balanced imo. You saw science get a fast start and then as the ticks came back war gained momentum and came back. Was really good fun, good tactics and provided a load of fun.

From memory plenty seemed to quite enjoy it.

This thread here shows why
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 12:32   #67
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Re: r21 stats

PDS does work.... it just needs to have an initiative high enough (eg 0) and be unemp/stealable. With the trade off being that you cant move it so its a sitting duck to big enough incs....

gone are the days when a newb can build big pds and prevent any incs :\

PA should try a free round with the r3 engine... who knows it may help bring it back to former glory.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 12:44   #68
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
think you have proven by now that you dont have a clue about stats :/
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 12:45   #69
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Re: r21 stats

Yeah, the stats are nice with lots of ships but going back to basics is a great idea because theres still plenty of tactics and choices to utilise. You don't have to worry about all sprts of silly issues and bugs and balance is easier because lessons were learned from the old days.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 12:49   #70
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Re: r21 stats

... and ships that target all as their last option is teh win....
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 12:51   #71
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Re: r21 stats

I must say I do like the targetting one ship thing, with two ships and weapon speed it made stats quite annoying to work out. Now I can look at a ships class and numbers of them and off the top of my head work out what they can kill..etc.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 16:44   #72
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Re: r21 stats

I like the current stats format - weapon speed and agility are great for us stats geeks, but it's no good for the game as a whole. Get rid of guns for EMP - I've said before and I maintain that there's a much better solution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
There's an easy solution that keeps the benefits of the EMP resistance but gets rid of the guns.


A Cathaar ship does X damage, but this damage is reduced by the EMP resistance before hitting the armour. The lowered damage then affects the armour in the same way as a normal ship would.


e.g. 10 Scarabs do 96 damage each, targetting 10 Ironclads, which each have 130 armour and 67% EMP resistance.

The scarabs do 960 damage total, which is reduced by 67% to 316 damage. The ironclads have 1300 armour total, which is reduced to 984 by being shot by the scarabs. 2 ironclads are lost.


Obviously you'd need to work out the damage dealt by the EMP weapons and what to make the EMP resistance of each ship (I suggest that you give ships lower EMP resistances overall and keep Cathaar EMP damages at a reasonable level, no-one wants to see a ship dealing 1000 damage )
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...44#post3087044
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 19:18   #73
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Re: r21 stats

Merge Clock/Emp and merge War/Steal

2 options.. one of them has to be good :/
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Unread 22 Mar 2007, 19:53   #74
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Re: r21 stats

Personally i like the Guns/EMP Res. in place now, but i think the Zik Steal Ships should be put on the same system, with ships having a Steal Res, since essentially Ziks fire neutron beams to kill the crew, it would make sense they're be a way to somehow slow the killing power of said beam.

Just a few notes i made about this round.

Eitrades ships should show there worth, if the Baliff if stronger than the Levi which it is based on then don't make it cheaper then a Levi ffs!, and the Vendors are based off a Beetle, but they're weaker than the beetle, then they shouldn't cost more to make, they should've been equal in value. If the Eitrades used there trading skills to acquire ships, then naturally the ships should cost equal to or more than there counterparts in some form. It makes sense.

And the other note, more attention needs to be focused on what matters, Class/Targeting... no race should only have to send pods+1 ship type, to roid

just my nickle and dime
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Unread 22 Mar 2007, 20:08   #75
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazypyro
Eitrades ships should show there worth, if the Baliff if stronger than the Levi which it is based on then don't make it cheaper then a Levi ffs!, and the Vendors are based off a Beetle, but they're weaker than the beetle, then they shouldn't cost more to make, they should've been equal in value. If the Eitrades used there trading skills to acquire ships, then naturally the ships should cost equal to or more than there counterparts in some form. It makes sense.

Some good nickles and dimes, but...

Eitrades race abilities and shipcosts. Eitrades was intentionally made a winner race by the design team. This can be elaborated by the racial advantages they gain over other races: first off, +40% salvage, smooth trading from universe funds (unlimited, that is), increased production and construction times. If you compare these to some other races, you can just ask yourself why.

Eitrades ships themselves. For an unknown reason, certain ships were made very powerful. They were tweaked down in beta and ran there, and the Tycoon for example wasn't found "good enough" unless it fires before Shadows. The vendor is weaker than the beetle for a reason: it's supposed to be weaker, to make eitrades weaker against xandathrii fighters. It's for niche reasons, if it was equally strong, it'd just be another beetle copy with a different name. These copies are born when you want to introduce dozens of races. Try making a stats set for the current combat engine with five races, and add in five other races each by default better than the other, and see how many clone ships you produce.

What comes to eitrades, they were "intended" fluffwise as a trader race that gets a bit from here and a bit from there. The far superior racial abilities weren't balanced in statistics (who cares about racial abilities anyways, as it was a XP heavy round, for what it's worth). This might have been reflected in a value round, but definately not under the seen setup.

Ah well.
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Unread 22 Mar 2007, 21:41   #76
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Some good nickles and dimes, but...

Eitrades race abilities and shipcosts. Eitrades was intentionally made a winner race by the design team. This can be elaborated by the racial advantages they gain over other races: first off, +40% salvage, smooth trading from universe funds (unlimited, that is), increased production and construction times. If you compare these to some other races, you can just ask yourself why.

Eitrades ships themselves. For an unknown reason, certain ships were made very powerful. They were tweaked down in beta and ran there, and the Tycoon for example wasn't found "good enough" unless it fires before Shadows. The vendor is weaker than the beetle for a reason: it's supposed to be weaker, to make eitrades weaker against xandathrii fighters. It's for niche reasons, if it was equally strong, it'd just be another beetle copy with a different name. These copies are born when you want to introduce dozens of races. Try making a stats set for the current combat engine with five races, and add in five other races each by default better than the other, and see how many clone ships you produce.

What comes to eitrades, they were "intended" fluffwise as a trader race that gets a bit from here and a bit from there. The far superior racial abilities weren't balanced in statistics (who cares about racial abilities anyways, as it was a XP heavy round, for what it's worth). This might have been reflected in a value round, but definately not under the seen setup.

Ah well.

I meant as the cost of the ships relative to there counter parts, i understand the need for weakening/strengthing a ship to create an offensive/defensive trait, but in terms of relative cost, was the point i was trying to make.

But then again when I looked at r20 stats i did notice the vendor had higher armour value which would justify a slightly higher cost, but nothing great, so I made moot argument in this case, my bad


Another thing, I do believe the Eitrades should be more a balance of ships from the other 4 races, i.e. a 2+3+3+3 combo of ships from each race, with the Ziks getting the lowest number spot
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