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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 17:46   #1
robban1
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r21 stats

so who will do them? anyone with half the brain this time? gonna actually betatest the stats this time?

good thing is that the stats cant get any whorse oh i damn hope this cluster eta will be changed too, kinda sucked
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 17:54   #2
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Re: r21 stats

Maybe I will do the stats, then your all screwed !!!
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 17:57   #3
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Re: r21 stats

The stats should be quite good, and yes, they will be properly beta tested (if I continue campaigning for a real test).
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 18:06   #4
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Re: r21 stats

The thing with stats is i bet every pa player can claim he can write a set of stats but tbh with so many variables its probably an impossible job, which is why there seems to be a strange corrolation between people dissapearing and those who design the stats. (Jester, paisley etc)
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 18:20   #5
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Re: r21 stats

I hope there won't be round 21!
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 18:23   #6
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Maybe I will do the stats, then your all screwed !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUDE
I hope there won't be round 21!

those 2 posts are interestingly similar...


good time to quit \o/
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 18:41   #7
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinoa
The thing with stats is i bet every pa player can claim he can write a set of stats but tbh with so many variables its probably an impossible job, which is why there seems to be a strange corrolation between people dissapearing and those who design the stats. (Jester, paisley etc)

Jester's stats were quite good, and he certainly hasn't gone anywhere.

Read "Suggestions" forum more often
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 19:09   #8
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Re: r21 stats

the main problem with making stats is that appocomaster and his bunch of merry buddies have very little clue about stats itself and yet still have the final say. and this matched with them of course tending to listen to the opinions of their equally ignorant/incompetent friends leads to a whole lot of effort and mess for anyone who wants to submit a set
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 19:15   #9
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
the main problem with making stats is that appocomaster and his bunch of merry buddies have very little clue about stats itself and yet still have the final say. and this matched with them of course tending to listen to the opinions of their equally ignorant/incompetent friends leads to a whole lot of effort and mess for anyone who wants to submit a set

So do you propose we make ascendancy/you make new stats ? So we have a repetition of r16 ? ^^
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 19:18   #10
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Re: r21 stats

r16's top 100 turn out didn't have all that much to do with the stats and if you don't understand that you're likely a shit player anyway since you don't understand how planetarion and it's universe works and therefore and deserved to get trounced like you undoubtedly did. i've explained the real reasons in simple terms in various other posts throughout the year+ since that round now as well and i'm not really interested in going over it again.
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 19:34   #11
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Re: r21 stats

no, i just came back to PA mid r16 to witness ascendancy's... well... ascendancy... for the lack of a better word. I am not saying that asc's win was due to stat's design (eventho, partially, its futile to deny it. But only in small part). Its the fact that you have used the weakness in design, the difference of gamestyle that came into being, first, without warning.

Hence, if you would be given the rights to design a set of stats, in my oppinion, you would implement a style that would not be disclosed to others. Its how you play. Nothing bad about it, but given all the skill of players gathered in ascendancy, implementation of a hidden tactics would be to the fullest expence.


The question is... where do we find an un-biased party to design a set of stats that would have enough knowlege of the system to make it "playable" and "original" and actually prevent every involved party (usually a loosing one) from blaming "shit stats" for their failures during the round.
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 20:11   #12
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Re: r21 stats

fair enough, i sort of understand your point of view them. for the record, EVERYONE wants a war game right? ascendancy is no different. the only thing is and the pateam have done nothing substantial to rectify this, is that in the CURRENT game, there is really no reason not to go the lazy route. i personally find "xp whoring" unbelievably tedious and try to play a balanced planet with strong value as well, but i don't blame or detract from anyone who's a xp player because why should i?

ps "hidden style"? xp "whores" have existed since r10.. :|
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 20:58   #13
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighteh
Hence, if you would be given the rights to design a set of stats, in my oppinion, you would implement a style that would not be disclosed to others.
For the love of god why do you think this?
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 22:13   #14
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Re: r21 stats

I agree with Mighteh on this one JBG. Obviously he hasn't gone quite far enough yet though. Four new race names should be used and everyone should be forced to pick this race blind, with the stats are not revealed until Tick36, after the shuffle.
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 23:18   #15
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I agree with Mighteh on this one JBG. Obviously he hasn't gone quite far enough yet though. Four new race names should be used and everyone should be forced to pick this race blind, with the stats are not revealed until Tick36, after the shuffle.
no problem i sign up 4 accounts and pick the one i like
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Unread 9 Mar 2007, 23:35   #16
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Re: r21 stats

Bring back Gatey, he will fix it!
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 01:35   #17
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Re: r21 stats

Gate's Stats is one of the bether stats we have hadd sine rnd10.5
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 03:33   #18
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Re: r21 stats

R11 stats were the best. <3 Fireblades or whatever that xan BS was.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 03:48   #19
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighteh
snip
We all looked at the same stats at the start of the round 16, we all were still looking at the same stats at the end of round 16. Just because Ascendancy were a little bit more clever than others on realising what could be done to capitalise that is not their fault.

In fact iirc (and please correct me wrong rob) in round 15 rob xp whored his way comfortably into the top 100, he may have done the same in round 14. Now I remember in round 15 that it was rather novel what he was doing, but I myself like others was perhaps too narrow minded to change my gameplay and the way I viewed the game. Indeed adapt with the times.

Indeed even in round 16 when rob landed in my galaxy I still didn't adapt until the last two weeks or so into the round when even then it was horrible for me to get xp as I was a fat value terran. Even still I adapted.

The failure was not in the stats it was probably the thinking of the players.

Onto the best stats, I felt round 11 were quite balanced, round 16 was decent as well I thought. There have been some rounds though were certain races are just stupid.

I think it was round 13 with cathaar? And 17/18 with xan? Both times I believe I pointed out the possible flaws in the stats as did a few people but sadly those in #beta who are playing a speedgame with crap alliances like Blaine or whatever its called and seeing how many roids they can accumulate and how many ships they can steal weren't quite the best to listen too, even though they were consulted.

I don't count myself as someone who is greatly astute when it comes to stats, although I feel I can spot flaws. However there are far greater people than myself.

I believe a public beta (if you call it that, as maybe a little freebie to keep the kids warmed up before the main event) shouldn't be used to test stats as quite frankly 9/10 situations are not realistic. Instead it should be used to find bugs etc.

A private beta however with a select group of individuals who are proven to be able to work on stats (and there a fair few around) should comprise of players with the knowledge and expertise to work on the stats. Once they have been consulted, the stats should be finalised and that is that. No public input imo should be allowed into the stats. It should be a purely private affair.

Deal with it. Is what I would say if I was pa team.

Often a democracy is great, but it fails in the fact that many of the people voting are shit and don't really know how their vote counts, a prime example is probably the USA. What is needed is a strong dictator who doesn't take shit off anyone and does whats best for his country for example Hitler or Stalin. Sure they were ass holes but they made their countries world powers.

We need a dictator to take the stats, not take shit off the general public and work with a select few to create some beautiful stats.

It will be emotional.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 14:13   #20
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Re: r21 stats

Gate's stats were good.

For christs sake, just reuse a set of stats from a good round ... all we have at the moment is a 5 minute check to see which race you have to roid this round. Rearranging the numbers and classes doesn't change the game (or maybe PATeam think it does change the stale game). This should be irrelevant given the fact that most players play round after round.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 14:35   #21
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Re: r21 stats

cath stats need a lot of work...they are worse than last round
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 15:32   #22
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Re: r21 stats

think caths is ok, its the other races that are fubar that kinda makes cath shitty to play try xan and you see what i mean hehe
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 15:54   #23
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Re: r21 stats

In the world cup, the two races they were pretty balanced and decent stats, perhaps we should have two races, balanced stats both havd advs and disadvs.

They were war and science.

Science had an incredible start, and war caught up towards the end.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 15:56   #24
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Re: r21 stats

Tell me about it, in the current universe(with only low value edts) xan is HORRIBLE.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 16:11   #25
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Re: r21 stats

I think Sovereign is having a go at making some stats that could be played with in betas.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 16:30   #26
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Re: r21 stats

Did I mention using jer's 3 race stats yet? Yeah.


(or go war/science)
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 16:42   #27
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Re: r21 stats

Jer's were probably mentioned earlier too, but some ****face decided that Paisley's statistical knowledge is the bliss to go with.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 18:27   #28
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Re: r21 stats

I still like the war/science stats, if I could lobby to get them implemented, then I would.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 19:15   #29
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Re: r21 stats

I think its been proven that there is room for four races, given acceptable stats, but five might be pushing too far.

My worry with the reduction to just two or three races is that there isn't room for a steal race, and emp race, and two different styled normal races (att/def?)
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 19:26   #30
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
I think its been proven that there is room for four races, given acceptable stats, but five might be pushing too far.

My worry with the reduction to just two or three races is that there isn't room for a steal race, and emp race, and two different styled normal races (att/def?)
How....what....how......


It hasn't been proven that there's room for four races - just look at the round-on-round controversies over the stats. The fifth race has just shifted the blame (for one round only). jer's stat's thread is a handy reference to see why - although if you're too lazy to click the link, just take it from me that Cathaar is inherently unbalanced by its very nature.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 20:15   #31
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Re: r21 stats

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...9&postcount=26


i quite like jesterina's idea there personally. anything truly OPEN ended, i'm up for really.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 20:20   #32
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Re: r21 stats

Yes i agree with that suggestion, surely a good starting point atleast
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 21:28   #33
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Re: r21 stats

I do prefer Jester's changes - but your stats, jer, would be easier to implement for Round 21
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 22:34   #34
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Re: r21 stats

can subversion ships still be created or has that been deleted completely
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 23:00   #35
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
can subversion ships still be created or has that been deleted completely
I'm fairly certain stealing was a direct replacement, so its not possible without changing the code.
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Unread 10 Mar 2007, 23:44   #36
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Re: r21 stats

fantastic
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 00:01   #37
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Re: r21 stats

i dont really like the fact that ziks lose ships once they have stolen...i liked the old way
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 00:04   #38
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death666
i dont really like the fact that ziks lose ships once they have stolen...i liked the old way
I don't mind the concept, but rather than doing 1:1 stealing I might have gone for 1.5:1 stealing. Enough to make stealing strategic, but not done in such a way as to change the nature of the race itself.
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 09:07   #39
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I'm fairly certain stealing was a direct replacement, so its not possible without changing the code.
I think some moron in the PA team was saying to me that the combat engine would be recoded to round 20. Think his name was Kal or something. I keep forgetting.
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 10:36   #40
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I think some moron in the PA team was saying to me that the combat engine would be recoded to round 20. Think his name was Kal or something. I keep forgetting.
Yeah, I've heard a lot about PAN too, which is supposed to be a new generation of Planetarion.

Oh, wait that was supposed to happen years ago.

Oh, passport system?

That one too.

Oh ****.

Really.

What has happened?

Stats change every round, XP formulae is tweaked, alliance rules are tweaked, with a few other minor tweaks (scans of lately).
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 10:38   #41
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I think some moron in the PA team was saying to me that the combat engine would be recoded to round 20. Think his name was Kal or something. I keep forgetting.
That was the original plan, however I think its entirly fair that Appocomaster decided he had to priortise university over PA and as such did not have time to complete the engine (instead he modded the current one to change how stealing worked). There are still plans to recode combat this year, however the item is currently "red" in the plan meaning it is not progressing anywhere near as fastly as we would like. hopefully we can have some sommunity consultation during early R21 on what different features and flexibility options the combat engine should have.
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 11:37   #42
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
That was the original plan, however I think its entirly fair that Appocomaster decided he had to priortise university over PA and as such did not have time to complete the engine (instead he modded the current one to change how stealing worked). There are still plans to recode combat this year, however the item is currently "red" in the plan meaning it is not progressing anywhere near as fastly as we would like. hopefully we can have some sommunity consultation during early R21 on what different features and flexibility options the combat engine should have.
Why wait until R21?
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 11:57   #43
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Re: r21 stats

jer and Jester doing the stats will be "a cut above", if both could be arsed. 3 races sounds noble. Sov i predict will just do a boring stat.

p.s. DeLoS winning?
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 12:06   #44
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Re: r21 stats

Where can I see jer's proposed stats? I'm sure they'll get my vote <3
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 12:22   #45
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real Arfy
Where can I see jer's proposed stats? I'm sure they'll get my vote <3

http://nera.atspace.com/jer/PAStats.xhtml
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 12:22   #46
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Re: r21 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
I still like the war/science stats, if I could lobby to get them implemented, then I would.
world cup speedie stats ftw
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 12:28   #47
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Re: r21 stats

http://ryzekiel.atspace.com/PAStats.html are likely the "latest" ones from the stuff i did for r19 - but don't trust me on that, and i'm not wasting my time checking it either

the link will have to be copied and pasted onto your address bar by the way because i have no idea how to make it otherwise :D
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 12:31   #48
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Re: r21 stats

They look pretty decent, worth a thorough look atleast.
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 21:49   #49
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Re: r21 stats

3 races FTW!
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Unread 11 Mar 2007, 21:50   #50
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Re: r21 stats

3 races FTW!
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