The most underrated game ever

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri


1. What the hell are you talking about?

2. I would say that to come back from near destruction in ffa in any of the xcraft games is next to impossible, and it's damn difficult at best in the C&C games. The only reason its possible in TA is the resource dynamic.

1. I take it you have never played the game then? because if you had you might have noticed that the only marginally usful artillery unit is the morty. The rest is utterly usless and you are better off using much more effective units such as mavs or bulldogs in any battle.

2. Its possible in ANY game period. Ta might be a little easier but that dosnt mean its a standout feature. FFA comebacks are only ever possible if somone is not good enough to finish you off. Afterall they would usualy outstrip you production wise by a factor of 2 to 1 at LEAST. IF they got sidetracked with another player hammering them and couldnt deal with you then maybe you would have a chance of coming back. But it is a very rare event.

I played the game for a long long time online and thats been my experience in almost all the games ive done

Originally posted by Miserableman
I've actually read a very good essay as to why Total Annihilation was fundamentally flawed. Having realistic nukes is all well and good, but what is the risk factor in just sitting in your base building nukes/counter nukes all day. Do you not think that, since every game just dissolves into this in the end, it rather spoils things?

Whoever wrote that essay must have been fundamentally flawed. The tactic he refers to is called porcing. Whereby somone makes a very minimal base area, fortifies it with masses of weapons and then builds a powerhouse for making nukes/other things.

The only people i have seen who use such a tactic are newbies and utter utter retards. the game is all about tactical expansion and control, if you have ever played Go you might have a clearer picture. The person who controls the most natural resources on the map will always win the game which means basically you have to expand to have your base cover as MUCH of the map as possible. if you porc in a corner and make nukes your opponent will have all the other resources on the map and own you production wise in the early game. Do the math, your 5 metal patches and 10 solars vs his 25 metal patches and 50 solars. Early game you have 10-20 tanks in your base either rushing you or slamming you into the ground. You have no defence set up yet your base gets screwed and then you dont even GET nukes.

Would take a porcer about 30 minutes at LEAST to get a nuke silo operational. Would take a decent expansionist (read average) player about 10-15 mins to have half the map in his control and another 5-10 mins to have a nuke silo and several fusion generators up.

Those are conservative figures, an expert could and does do it faster. I played it for 5 years dude the game is NOT fundamentaly flawed and anyone that says so is wrong.

[Silva baby]

cooling TA doesn't look stylish at all it looks rotten the whole game looks rotten, where Warcraft 3, starcraft and other games have made up the strategy lack of watever u want to call it with magnificent visuals or at least compared to TA good visuals. Although TA has masses of tactic i personalli found the game too complex and hard to master making it completly unfun against your friends not that i have any but that is beside the point~ to me TA units looked uninspired lyke someone pulled them out of a rubbish bin and a lack of a proper storyline didn't help

in terms of strategy i feel Dark Reign was a brillant game as was Dark Reign 2 but um noone bought as usual.........
in RPG's the Parasite Eve series was good as was SEcret of Mana someone has mentioned both were overtaken in terms of hype by Res Evil and FF

Originally posted by Deathjam
tribes 2

its tons better than cs ffsand that q3 team thingy

t1 > t2

[Tron]

Got to agree with others that Total Annihilation is the most underrated game ever. The thousands of hours I have spent on that game, both online and offline, make up some of the most memorable and cherished gaming memories I have known. But, as it is said, it is indeed flawed.

As for porcing, well...those who have played against real people know that porcing simply does not work. Sure, it works against the AI because the AI, even on hard, does not put up much of a fight. I used to porc big time when I first began playing online. Then I got my behind handed to me after I got rushed with masses of Rapiers. I learned fast after that.

Can't wait for TA2. I only hope the S. Koreans don't make it suck. I'm not expecting Chris Taylor-caliber work either.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Cooling
1. I take it you have never played the game then? because if you had you might have noticed that the only marginally usful artillery unit is the morty. The rest is utterly usless and you are better off using much more effective units such as mavs or bulldogs in any battle.

Have you never played the game then? I think you might have noticed that the fixed artillery has a bit more range than 3/4 of a screen on 800x600.

Originally posted by Cooling
2. Its possible in ANY game period. Ta might be a little easier but that dosnt mean its a standout feature. FFA comebacks are only ever possible if somone is not good enough to finish you off. Afterall they would usualy outstrip you production wise by a factor of 2 to 1 at LEAST. IF they got sidetracked with another player hammering them and couldnt deal with you then maybe you would have a chance of coming back. But it is a very rare event.

You could, you know move the commander to another part of the map and start again there? Maybe with a radar jammer so they wouldn't know you were doing it? Wouldn't that work?

Originally posted by Silva baby
cooling TA doesn't look stylish at all it looks rotten the whole game looks rotten, where Warcraft 3, starcraft and other games have made up the strategy lack of watever u want to call it with magnificent visuals or at least compared to TA good visuals. Although TA has masses of tactic i personalli found the game too complex and hard to master making it completly unfun against your friends not that i have any but that is beside the point~ to me TA units looked uninspired lyke someone pulled them out of a rubbish bin and a lack of a proper storyline didn't help

in terms of strategy i feel Dark Reign was a brillant game as was Dark Reign 2 but um noone bought as usual.........
in RPG's the Parasite Eve series was good as was SEcret of Mana someone has mentioned both were overtaken in terms of hype by Res Evil and FF

'Graphics make the game'? I would compare TA to Civ 2 or Alpha Centauri in that regard.

How can you call the game complex? Anyone who hasn't learned Starcraft is in just as much trouble in an MP game, and with TA you can turn units off to make the game much simpler.

And what was wrong with the storyline?

As for Dark Reign and Dark Reign 2, thy wre only overlooked because (taking Dark Reign as an example), Total Annihilation (which is better) was released 1 week earlier, and Starcraft was released about the same time.

Originally posted by Tron
Then I got my behind handed to me after I got rushed with masses of Rapiers. I learned fast after that.

Brawlers are better

Legend Of Zelda: Orcarina Of Time

Why you say?

Because some people think its only the 2nd or 3rd greatest game ever, not the greatest.

[LHC]

Originally posted by SectorX
Legend Of Zelda: Orcarina Of Time

Why you say?

Because some people think its only the 2nd or 3rd greatest game ever, not the greatest.

Was that the N64 one? If so, I didn't like it that much. It was good, but the story was nowhere near as good as that as A Link to the Past.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by LHC

Was that the N64 one? If so, I didn't like it that much. I was good, but the story was nowhere near as good as that as A Link to the Past.

Thats true

The game was so...."My god, that's beautiful", and "when are these amazing lands going to end?"

It was so huge, and amazing...And....It was just the greatest game I've ever played.

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri


Have you never played the game then? I think you might have noticed that the fixed artillery has a bit more range than 3/4 of a screen on 800x600.



You could, you know move the commander to another part of the map and start again there? Maybe with a radar jammer so they wouldn't know you were doing it? Wouldn't that work?



Brawlers are better

Yeah i have played the game online and NO you did not mention fixed artillery (might i add that noone EVER calls guardians or berthas 'fixed artillery' online. They are static guns, i had assumed you were making reference to what everyone else calls artillery, ie mobile artillery, mortys etc etc. Also i suggest you take some time to look at the meaning of the word artillery....

artillery
n 1: large but transportable armament [syn: heavy weapon, gun, ordnance] (dictionary.com)

by the way, ever heard of setting peepers on patrol over the map? wouldnt that find you? cause radar jamming an entire base area is an expensive process (also a waste of production time).

and fyi rapiers are much better than brawlers. Aside from the lag that emg causes brawlers also take longer to kill anything. Rapiers pack a bigger punch right off the bat.

I have played the game so dont bother attempting to discredit me on that front, ive been around that online community for years and i never saw your face there.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Cooling
artillery
n 1: large but transportable armament [syn: heavy weapon, gun, ordnance] (dictionary.com)

From the Oxford English Dictionary, which is generally regarded as definitive:

Engines for discharging missiles. a. Formerly including catapults, slings, arbalests, bows, etc.
b. Now: Large guns, cannon, ordnance.

Originally posted by Cooling
by the way, ever heard of setting peepers on patrol over the map? wouldnt that find you? cause radar jamming an entire base area is an expensive process (also a waste of production time).

and fyi rapiers are much better than brawlers. Aside from the lag that emg causes brawlers also take longer to kill anything. Rapiers pack a bigger punch right off the bat.

Well, in my experience, Brawlers have been much more effective than Rapiers. And Radar jamming a small base only takes 3 or 4 jammers.

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri


From the Oxford English Dictionary, which is generally regarded as definitive:

Engines for discharging missiles. a. Formerly including catapults, slings, arbalests, bows, etc.
b. Now: Large guns, cannon, ordnance.



Well, in my experience, Brawlers have been much more effective than Rapiers. And Radar jamming a small base only takes 3 or 4 jammers.

well we are arguing two different points if we argue semantically. Im saying mobile artillery is rubbish and it IS. static guns are fine and dandy tho in the way the games played these days they are only effective on certain maps like evad. Gow et al they suck. Their implimentation is fine tho ill agree there.

I think you should try rapiers again then and compare, they can take a com down in 14 shots, if 7 fired one volley you win the game in about a second.

oh and dont forget the cost of an advanced kbot lab, sets you back 2k metal straight away. expensive stuff especially if you are starting again with a small base.

[KillGhost]

Originally posted by Nashmeister
I think it should be

Jet Force Gemini







That game was REALLY good. I love third person shooters.

That game was underrated yes

Oh, and I would also say the game "Payload" made by Sony in 1985 for MSX. IT R0X !!!!!!!

Originally posted by KillGhost
IT R0X !!!!!!!

That invalidated your vote.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Cooling
oh and dont forget the cost of an advanced kbot lab, sets you back 2k metal straight away. expensive stuff especially if you are starting again with a small base.

I always build some radar jammers, for covering attacks, base exterior Berthas, and the like

[Oye]

Originally posted by Cooling
it wasnt a weak remake of anything. the interface in that game and the sheer volume of different strategys and levels make it the only rts really worth playing

i look at games like starcrap and think my fking god, games like that have made all subsequent games in the genre a pile of utter wank.

Oh also the msot underrated game ever has to be fragile allegiance. It reminds me of pa, but with actual graphics and real gameplay

couldnt agree more, though fragile alliance rocked more as 'k240' for the amiga \o/

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri


I always build some radar jammers, for covering attacks, base exterior Berthas, and the like

i wouldnt make them for berthas, generally you can tell the direction of fire from the shots or from the best positions for the guns and then peeper scout them and use an MT compass to fix the location. Tho thats not a commonly employed tactic

Originally posted by Oye


couldnt agree more, though fragile alliance rocked more as 'k240' for the amiga \o/

Was an absolutely ace game, too bad the multiplayer wasnt tcp/ip usable :/ would own then. and getting around the screens got a little annoying after a while. rest was great tho

[Auro]

Uplink was pure bliss. A thief-like atmosphere, but no weapons.

Game no one ever heard of: Uncharted Waters 2: New Horizons (PC and SNES). Back in 1994 this was THE game, for me at least. Absolutely addictive. Still play it (and the sequels, but they're not in English).

And any Looking Glass Studios game is underrated. They all owned. System Shock 2 is still a game I refuse to touch.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Cooling


i wouldnt make them for berthas, generally you can tell the direction of fire from the shots or from the best positions for the guns and then peeper scout them and use an MT compass to fix the location. Tho thats not a commonly employed tactic

For them being built, rather than after. After they're built I tend to have them defended rather better.

[Obfuscator]

Originally posted by Mushroom
it's not exactly recent, but system shock 2 was a good game. And like all Looking Glass games, was brushed under the carpet...

Agreed....I would put my emphasis on the Thief line, personally. Playing through them right now for the first time. Absolutely brilliant.

[Robke]

Originally posted by Deathjam
tribes 2

its tons better than cs ffsand that q3 team thingy

Tribes 2 is nice.
arsenal is also quite underrated, but nice to play.

[Miserableman]

Originally posted by Cooling


Whoever wrote that essay must have been fundamentally flawed. The tactic he refers to is called porcing. Whereby somone makes a very minimal base area, fortifies it with masses of weapons and then builds a powerhouse for making nukes/other things.

I perhaps exagerated, his reference was not so much to the game but it's nukes, insofar as you can sit back in your base, build some Bertha's or Nukes or whatever and without any proportional risk to you pound your opponent into the ground.

In "Starcrap", there is a great deal of risk - the difficulty in building more than one silo, the extreme difficulty in infiltrating an opponents base, and the hilarity of watching them frantically trying to locate the red dot/ghost when the siren goes off.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Miserableman
I perhaps exagerated, his reference was not so much to the game but it's nukes, insofar as you can sit back in your base, build some Bertha's or Nukes or whatever and without any proportional risk to you pound your opponent into the ground.

If you don't like games with gun emplacements or nukes, you can do what's called 'Turn them off you fool', you fool.

Originally posted by Miserableman


I perhaps exagerated, his reference was not so much to the game but it's nukes, insofar as you can sit back in your base, build some Bertha's or Nukes or whatever and without any proportional risk to you pound your opponent into the ground.

In "Starcrap", there is a great deal of risk - the difficulty in building more than one silo, the extreme difficulty in infiltrating an opponents base, and the hilarity of watching them frantically trying to locate the red dot/ghost when the siren goes off.

Let me reiterate. In NO way can you EVER sit back in a base and pound somone with nukes or a bertha without proportionate risk. A bertha assuming it is within range is often inaccurate and costs a TON of resources (4-5k metal). It takes just ONE pass with about 12-14 light bombers to take one out. So there goes your 5k metal down the drain your entire strategy is compromised and all it cost your opponent was some bombers. The way the game is played these days its much more fluid and beleive me theres more than one way to down a bertha. You could use ships from off the coast or pels (amphibious bots) if its on an island. Or if its on land you could just attack the position with stacks of units or make (gasp) your OWN bertha ¬_¬

And last time i checked their were anti nukes that were a lot cheaper than nukes and stopped the threat cold? hrmmmm.
Not to mention the fact that a nuke costs a TON of resources to build and takes a very very long time for a very concentrated area of damage. Unless you pick the best target area you arnt going to hit much with them.

Nukes should be effective and usful but they should also be counterable. Somthing that both starcraft AND total annihiliation do perfectly well in their own ways. Ill say again, whoever wrote that article was supremely biased or full of sh*t (both probably).

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri


If you don't like games with gun emplacements or nukes, you can do what's called 'Turn them off you fool', you fool.

But then ud be using newbie rules decent players can play with all the units on and handle it without whining

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Cooling


But then ud be using newbie rules decent players can play with all the units on and handle it without whining

Who said he was a decent player?

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri


Who said he was a decent player?

me \o/

[Cryptic]

Thief - originally hardly anyone bought it , but out of those that did , a large percentage rate it as one of the best games ever.

[Sn0w]

still think you can handle me in a game lameking(cooling) long time since i played even longer since i played drunk (when i played my best) dont think ill ever go back to it though