Banned for posting or hypocrit Mods

[Marka]

Originally Posted by Kargool

So Subh is a bunch of pissants lowlifes and cowards because of Ali?

It all starts to make sense now.

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

5) You've shown us all that your IQ can be compared to that of a dead antelope
6) You've shown everyone what a petty prick you are ("hahaha - we so pwned 1up!!!!!!1111111111111")

Well done on making your alliance the laughing stock of PA and showing yourself to be as dumb as dirt.

Originally Posted by jerome

that must be it indeed paisley, not because you guys have shown yourself to be a total ****ing pile of shit (for reasons such as the ones snurx highlighted earlier), not that at all.

First of all sorry that I put this in AD but the events occured here and because of that I think it's appropriate.
Above we see 3 examples of the usual AD posting style by several people - all are from the same thread (could've easily digged out more).
The general tone is very aggresive and insulting a group of people in the game - or only certain members.
They have another thing in common - all 3 posters are regular posters have a load of green dots and other posts of the same kind - and they are still able to post here.
Then we have this thread
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=192027
I admit it's not the best thread - but it says even in topic what it contains and what can be expected. The one who posted - Judge - ain't the first to call another group in the game cheaters nor will he be the last.
However he didn't use any bad language and did write in a pretty ironic style.
Now he got banned for a month from this forums.

I am asking the Community and the Mods - what is worse - calling a group of ppl cheaters - or insulting someone directly in the style of the above posts?
Do people with 500+ posts have more rights than irregulare posters?
Are some mods biased towards certain people/alliances/opinions?

Imho the ban was in no way justifiable. This here is an discussion platform where everyone has it's own opinion and should be able to express it. The mods shouldn't prosecute based on the opinion someone has but on the way he is expressing them - insulting other people/groups should be a reason for banning.
SubH suck, 1up suck, PAteam sucks, eXi cheats.
Some opinions which all have their followers - but apparently you only get banned for the latter....

Regards
Marka

[Phil^]

if you post as poorly as pilgrim did, then you deserve to be banned.
constant trolling does not a good poster make.

its just as well he got banned - good riddance.
the forums are not a democracy, worth keeping that in mind ( http://pirate.planetarion.com/announ...php?f=38&a=126 )

[Marka]

Pilgrim was banned and I think he deserved it - however that is not my point as I am referring to another person.
My point is that the mods (respectively the mod doing the ban) are missing the point of a discussion forum if they do their banning on the basis this one happened.
"You may not spread rumors - but insulting people is ok."

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Marka

Pilgrim was banned and I think he deserved it - however that is not my point as I am referring to another person.
My point is that the mods (respectively the mod doing the ban) are missing the point of a discussion forum if they do their banning on the basis this one happened.
"You may not spread rumors - but insulting people is ok."

I think my comment was more a result as of the constant moronic thread some of the previous subh posters had posted in the said thread it occured in.

I disagree with it being an overly bad post compared to some of the shit alot of others have posted this round.

Also, this thread should be on PD and not AD as i dont see the relevancy to it being on AD

[furball]

Originally Posted by Marka

My point is that the mods (respectively the mod doing the ban) are missing the point of a discussion forum if they do their banning on the basis this one happened.
"You may not spread rumors - but insulting people is ok."

To quote from lokken's own post:

Originally Posted by lokken

First off - Cheat allegations lead to endless and pointless arguments and quite frankly it's an argument we've read before. Without evidence presented here within the rules, all that was being said was plainly rumour. This forum does not decide who cheats, the multihunters do. If you have a problem with how the game is run, go to Planetarion Discussions and take it there.

Second of all - I won't have debate on what jolt may or may not do in legal proceedings. That is their own private business.

Thirdly - my job is to allow reasonable discussion to continue of this forum. Occasionally my discretion to preserve this demands I override users' freedom of speech. As many a mod has said before, the forums are not a democracy.

Little more should need to be said. Suffice it to say that Judge knew he was on dodgy ground, and posted the allegations anyway. Lok had already made clear that allegations such as these weren't acceptable without evidence to back them up - refer to the AD rules.


As for insulting people in the manners you described above, work by the mods often goes on 'behind the scenes' to try to tone things down. You don't see it on the forums. It rarely results in a ban for the poster because they are usually sensible enough to know that they crossed the line. These people are often those with the green blobs, since those with the red blobs just keep on posting until a mod hits the trigger.

AD is naturally a heated discussion forum. So be it. The same point has been argued again and again by 1up (+others) and Subh (+others) posters for the last week, and when one side is obviously talking bollocks then it's not suprising that some posters have got frustrated that they won't accept that. The day we decide that they've crossed the line to such an extent that a ban is required, the ban will be put in place. Have you even read through some of Judge's posts rather than just listening to whatever he tells you in pm??

[Veedeejem!]

Originally Posted by Marka

I am asking the Community and the Mods - what is worse - calling a group of ppl cheaters - or insulting someone directly in the style of the above posts?

Imo calling an entire alliance cheaters without handing any form of proof is alot worse than calling somebody an idiot on a AD.
Judge deserved the ban for posting something as crap as his post

[Marka]

Originally Posted by Kargool

I think my comment was more a result as of the constant moronic thread some of the previous subh posters had posted in the said thread it occured in.

I disagree with it being an overly bad post compared to some of the shit alot of others have posted this round.

Kargool I didn't want to offend you or the other posters. I just looked in that thread for 5mins and was looking for some examples of foul language in there - I agree there are dozens of other examples - I ain't judging which posts are worst - this are just 3 that imho are more of a reason to ban someone than spreading rumors.
Don't want any of you 3 banned - just saying that Judge shouldn't have been banned.

If any moderator hasn't any problems with the examples I gave but with Judge's thread - he should quit that position.

[Phil^]

its like talking to a sodding wall :/

[furball]

Originally Posted by Marka

Don't want any of you 3 banned - just saying that Judge shouldn't have been banned.

If any moderator hasn't any problems with the examples I gave but with Judge's thread - he should quit that position.

Poor little Judgey-wudgy.


He's been around for years. He knows how it works. It's generally agreed (and he knows this, or at least should know) that allegations of cheating MUST be substantiated and come complete with evidence (like here). His post was a complete farce that just begged to be kicked to pieces. He wound up with a ban because of that thread and his other posts.


I don't particularly like the insults that you cited, but given the context of that thread, I can see why they were driven to them.

[Marka]

Originally Posted by Veedeejem!

Imo calling an entire alliance cheaters without handing any form of proof is alot worse than calling somebody an idiot on a AD.
Judge deserved the ban for posting something as crap as his post

It ain't exactly calling someone an idiot - if you go through the various insults SubH as an alliance did get this round in certain threads - it is beyond anything appropriate (and yes - this is coming from someone whose alliance suffered most from the backstab).
I can understand your position as you are in this case the victim and can't be neutral.
If we go to the idiot-theme - he basically said to SubH "I think you are idiots unless you proof otherwise" while for SubH it was "you are idiots"
Honestly - which is worse?

[Gary]

Phil, by not allowing Judge the freedom to post what he wants (in this case, exi are cheaters) the moderators are alienating a point of view that represents a sizeable chunk of the community. That is damaging to PA and is not necessary.

[lokken]

For a start, people are welcome to hurl insults at me at any time. I am well prepared to defend how I moderate, as for me there's not much to defend and no need for anyone to help me out, but thanks to those who have, I guess.

Originally Posted by Marka

First of all sorry that I put this in AD but the events occured here and because of that I think it's appropriate.
Above we see 3 examples of the usual AD posting style by several people - all are from the same thread (could've easily digged out more).
The general tone is very aggresive and insulting a group of people in the game - or only certain members.

I allow aggression and put downs on the forum, as long as it is within context. For example, I had no problem with Pilgrims '1down' comments, they were pretty entertaining. Where the insults get out of hand, I warn users publically about their behaviour

They have another thing in common - all 3 posters are regular posters have a load of green dots and other posts of the same kind - and they are still able to post here.

This is really bad logic as just two days ago I banned an alliance colleague from here and regular poster Heartless for breaking the rules. We've banned his clones since. I've banned people I'm friends with on IRC before, I've banned Idler who is one of the most experienced users on this forum, to suggest I fear or rule out banning anyone is very much mistaken.

Then we have this thread
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=192027
I admit it's not the best thread - but it says even in topic what it contains and what can be expected. The one who posted - Judge - ain't the first to call another group in the game cheaters nor will he be the last.
However he didn't use any bad language and did write in a pretty ironic style.
Now he got banned for a month from this forums.

Judge was not banned for that thread. I clearly stated when I closed the thread that this was the kind of post I didn't want. I made my opinion clear on the thread on its first instance, the second instance then on the Readme on this forum, which will be deleted in a few days time.

Originally Posted by Judge

They will play, I have it on good authourity that at this very moment they are busy installing remote access software in all their members for next rounds PC's and in Kargool's butt.

:-)

bet u a pound to a pinch of <brown stuff from the anus> I get my forum account closed for the above

In the end this is what got Judge closed. This was pretty much all out begging for a ban, especially when I requested that people stopped chucking their weight around about cheating, so he got what he asked for.

I am asking the Community and the Mods - what is worse - calling a group of ppl cheaters - or insulting someone directly in the style of the above posts?

I allow discussion to flow - if I went round deleting everything, it would interrupt discussion and I don't have all day to moderate you lot (although if jolt want to pay me a salary to do it full time they are welcome to offer me one)

Do people with 500+ posts have more rights than irregulare posters?

As above

Are some mods biased towards certain people/alliances/opinions?

I have opinions. They don't affect my modding, which is why I was appointed and why I am still here. I have said on several occasions that I pretty much have a large distaste for 1up and Exilition, I have no reason to protect them but did so because Judge offered no evidence of exi cheating

Imho the ban was in no way justifiable. This here is an discussion platform where everyone has it's own opinion and should be able to express it. The mods shouldn't prosecute based on the opinion someone has but on the way he is expressing them - insulting other people/groups should be a reason for banning.

I agree that the way things are expressed is very important, but sometimes quoting bits of posts does not work - you have to read the whole post in context. My role here is to promote discussion and to keep it rational - discussing whether someone is cheating without any kind of evidence, or any kind of closures from the multihunters (who weigh up the evidence and delete it) does not lead to rational discussion. There are players who I think have been cheating, but I have not named them on the forum, as if the multihunters weren't interested, it's wasted hard disk space. Yet again, i'll state the forums are not a democracy

SubH suck, 1up suck, PAteam sucks, eXi cheats.
Some opinions which all have their followers - but apparently you only get banned for the latter....

Regards
Marka

That's because people can offer justification or reasonable opinion for topics 1, 2 and 3. All people say with topic 4 is 'exi cheat because they do well'. Well that isn't good enough to warrant discussion in my book and only leads to the most terrific flame war.

And that's the bottom line because stone cold says so (<3 JBG)

But anyway, I hope this is a satisfactory reply. I'm closing the thread. If people want to call me shit or whatever they are welcome to do so by pm on IRC/forums or via the rep function if they think I give a hoot about my rep.