Having lies on your CV

[PureviL]

Is having lies on your CV acceptable, or should you at all times keep a clean record?

Is it ok If you are for example, a 35 your old housewife who spend 3 months in a hospital due to a serious depression caused by the suicide of family members, to describe that time as raising my children?

And is it ok to make your work experience look bigger as it is, as the only way to gain the experience you need for the job, is obviously by doing the job?

Help

[ChubbyChecker]

Nobody ever got anywhere by telling the truth

[Tomkat]

I don't think my CV has any lies on it actually.

Putting in the odd white lie here and there is ok though - like embellishing the truth (for instance I worked at the Odeon for a couple of years when I was 15-17 - I put "showing people to their seats" as "promoting the image of the company and maintaining a positive interaction with the customers" or something).

CVs are so gay. Personal Statements are worse though :/

[PureviL]

But your stealing jobs from people who aren't lieing, and do have the right qualifications.

*assuming there are non-lieing people left

[Dante Hicks]

I wouldn't put something that can be factually disproved (e.g. giving a different job title for your previous employment for instance).

But yes, "Spending 3 months bumming around doing fk all" could easily become "Three months studying and improving my IT skills". So long as you can back it up in an interview it shouldn't matter.

[PureviL]

besides from doing it because our system allows us to, and using it to our advantage = good..

If you take it to a more moral point of view, do any of you believe in a need for some rules and regulations to try and ban out lies on cv's? This would make the world a bit more fair.

[Dante Hicks]

There's no need to "ban" lying on your CV's. You can be found guilty of fraud in some cases anyway, and besides - if your employers find out you were lying they can simply sack you on the spot.

If an employer simply takes your proclamation of "Inventor of the Internet" on your CV as fact without checking they deserve a (potentially) crap employee anyway. It's not really a big problem, imho. Most people who lie on their CVs do so becuase you have to. Employers expect you to lie in interviews & CVs. No-one wants to hear the real reason you left your last job.

Obviously it matters in cases like Doctors and stuff, but I'd hope they're vetted a bit more solidly anyway.

[PureviL]

baby steps

[queball]

Originally Posted by PureviL

besides from doing it because our system allows us to, and using it to our advantage = good..

If you take it to a more moral point of view, do any of you believe in a need for some rules and regulations to try and ban out lies on cv's? This would make the world a bit more fair.

Fair doesn't mean protecting pious idiots. And I'm sure the people who choose to be "truthful" get a lot more self-satisfaction without rules.

[PureviL]

Originally Posted by queball

Fair doesn't mean protecting pious idiots. And I'm sure the people who choose to be "truthful" get a lot more self-satisfaction without rules.

i'm sure the get a lot of self-satisfaction when they sit at home in the couch with no job eating crackers to stay alive because some lieing bastard took the job wich they were better qualified for, had it not been for those lies.

[PureviL]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Baby ants?

Also those steps might even be regressive. The CV suystem is biased towards certain people anyway. Plus some people may have had better experience but be utter twats. Also maybe they got that experience through daddy. I know plenty of people who have exellent credentials but are an utter waste of space (me for instance).

very true, but should we lie, and make the system even more unfair, just because it is already inbalanced? continue down that road and we end up with the best liers on every good job.

[insane_in_da_membrane]

If it can't be proved that you're lying, do it. I did, and I'm sure most people here have. (eg I worked in a postal sorting office over christmas, it was shit, though I managed to blag that it improved team work and working to deadlines..even though it actually didn't. I covered my ass by saying "I believe that...yadda yadda")

[PureviL]

So your point is, that because the cv system is not a good way to represent people's skill anyway, and on top of that it is actually helps unbalancing the system because it is a source of mostly wrong prejudice in its current form...

It is ok to lie, to compensate for the meaningless quistions, and the prejudice it produces.

I kind of agree with you then, but are you satisfied with the current situation, or can you think of a better model of hiring employees to fix the problems that the cv produces.

[queball]

Originally Posted by PureviL

i'm sure the get a lot of self-satisfaction when they sit at home in the couch with no job eating crackers to stay alive because some lieing bastard took the job wich they were better qualified for, had it not been for those lies.

Well, yeah. Or they'll regret being so silly.

[PureviL]

silly honest people, they should have known liers take it all

[PureviL]

i shouldn't have asked that quistion

[ChubbyChecker]

If I were an employer I would tell them I would hire them at minimum wage for the first three months "probation period" then bump their wage up after that. Though of course I'd just sack them come month 3.

Real cost cutting there

[madi]

if you dont need to fib on your CV to get the job you are applying for
then you arent aiming high enough

[Dante Hicks]

Maybe you're missing the point purevil. Lying is a key job skill.

In my daily job for instance, a customer may say "Do you think I'm stupid?". Now, obviously the correct answer would generally be "Yes", but you generally say either "What I think isn't really relevent" (bad) or "Of course not, this is confusing to lots of people." (slightly better)

Similarly with inter-departmental communication, or speaking to colleagues or whatever : You have to lie constantly. I'd be wary of taking someone on who was unwilling to lie at all.

Being able to bullshit on your CV is a key insight into whether you can bullshit customers, suppliers, managers, etc.

[PureviL]

tbh Dante, your 100% right

All my arguments on this thread have been 'bullshit and lies', as they are not my opinion at all.
Communication and total honesty just don't go together as you stated.

I am participating in a national debating competition and the quarter final is next week wednesday. One of the topics is 'A few lies on your cv is ok''

As this board is gold for finding out different perspectives on a topic from people who know how to formulate good arguments, i'm just trying to find some more opinions than my own about this topic, to better prepare myself.

its been usefull so far

[Embroglio]

whats with all the pseudo trolls atm

[JetLinus]

IMO health issues such as this 3-month stay in a hospital are of nobody's concern. If you broke a leg one, you don't tell them as well...
Besides, you had "good reasons" anyway, it wasn't like you were taking some time off etc.

So, ffs, don't put it on your CV. It doesn't matter. Put "raising my kids", or extend the boundaries of the stuff you did before / afterwards...

[Dante Hicks]

I don't like trolls, pseudo or otherwise. It cheapens the value of debate terribly.

[queball]

Originally Posted by Embroglio

whats with all the pseudo trolls atm

Boredom? And there hasn't been a pseudo-troll with a reason before that I remember.

[PureviL]

i'm just to honest to keep it up

[Proteus]

Occasionally my father brings home CVs that people have sent to the company he works for, and my mother and I have fun going through them and picking out people who have lied. It's usually incredibly obvious, and (predictably) he doesn't give them jobs.

In general, if what you say in your CV makes you look like a more impressive candidate than other things would indicate (your academic qualifications, previous jobs and salaries, the job you're applying for at the moment), then your prospective employer will know you're lying. Making one particular aspect of your CV look better will normally be completely obvious.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by queball

Boredom? And there hasn't been a pseudo-troll with a reason before that I remember.

There was that whole Public Debating Forum "incident".

Plus Mark, Nod, Jonny and Sunday all have borderline trolled here.

[PureviL]

But Dante, in a debating competition, you do not get to pick the side you get to take either.
Debating is about winning, and being able to 'pseudo troll' is a required skill in these situations.
i don't see how it cheapens a debate really, it's not like you have to be serious all your life.

[Dante Hicks]

I don't like debating competetions either.

You're either debating a completlely assinine topic which no-one cares about (in which case, don't bother debating it in the first place) or your debating something interesting / worth debating.

If it's the latter, then it's easy to find someone who disagrees with you. Not only can you get the same thrill out of debating, but it's for real, and not just intellectual masturbation.

I'm all for not having to be serious (in which case, I'll post in the nonsense threads) but otherwise it's :
The cause- we're just doing it for the cause
No it isn't for the fortune, it isn't for the fame
It's a scheme, a dream, a barterine
We want everyone to think the same

Or something.

[PureviL]

how about, 'debating is a sport'

[PureviL]

usually a 3 or 5 man jury

its all opinions offcourse

[Intrepid00]

Originally Posted by PureviL

But your stealing jobs from people who aren't lieing, and do have the right qualifications.

*assuming there are non-lieing people left

Noone tells the complete truth on a job resume, because paper always makes it worst.

It sounds like it should apply to whatever this CV is.

[Embroglio]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

How would you decide who had "won"?

those who don't spend all day wanking off at how clever they are and actually deal with real problems

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Embroglio

those who don't spend all day wanking off at how clever they are and actually deal with real problems

So basically we'd all be losers here?

[Embroglio]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

So basically we'd all be losers here?

we're sat using an internet forum and you question if we're losers?

[1-X]

i noticed Maxine Carr is being charged with fraud for lying (about her qualifications) on job applications (ordinary jobs, not child related or anything). I thought this was a bit harsh, but maybe it's just a way of keeping her in jail longer.

I was always told you can put what you like on your CV but on an application form, where they've asked specific questions and there is often a signed statement at the end, then you've crossed the line into fraud/deception.

Glossing over things like time spent in hospital, and exaggerating time spent on work experience is no big deal. It's expected. It's called selling yourself.

[Deciduous]

Originally Posted by Embroglio

we're sat using an internet forum and you question if we're losers?

Taking advantage of technology to gain facts and opinions we wouldn't otherwise get is being a loser?

[Evergreen]

Apparrently some employers who are notorious for employee abuse will happily take on people who lied on their CV and they know it because then when the abuse becomes too much for said employee and he doesn't behave how you want him you can sack him without having to worry about going to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal because the employer can simply state he was sacked for lying about his qualifications.

Win-win for employers. Seen it done many a time before.

[Structural Integrity]

Originally Posted by PureviL

i'm sure the get a lot of self-satisfaction when they sit at home in the couch with no job eating crackers to stay alive because some lieing bastard took the job wich they were better qualified for, had it not been for those lies.

They often look right through you... those personell selection types... they aren't stupid. They deal with lying bastards every day.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

There was that whole Public Debating Forum "incident".

Plus Mark, Nod, Jonny and Sunday all have borderline trolled here.

thats kind of harsh man.

[Rick111]

i agree, i agree

[Ebany]

There is a big difference between 'embellishing the truth' ie making what you did at your last job sound a lot fancier than it was (which is pretty much expected these days on CV's, hell, its done in job descriptions all over the place, 'refuse management operative' position anyone?) and out-and-out lies. While I wouldn't expect people to mention on a CV anything much with regards to health or criminal convictions of any form, most companies that are concerened about such things will provide specific forms for these, which are counted as legal documents. I am currently involved in a big recruitment campaign for the Inland Revenue, and we send out both health and 'character' enquiry forms for all applicants to complete. While there is relatively little you can do on these forms that will prevent you getting the job (we were told to let through...hmm...lets see....a guy who was convicted of assaulting someone at work, people with huge numbers of sick days, almost any form of small convictions, even a minor fraud case, after we had been told fraud was a big no-no. The only ones I can think of who did get refused were a paedophile and a guy who had been working for the IR before and had an appalling attendance record). However, if you miss things off on this form and later on something comes up that makes them look back at your record and they find out you were lying on these forms they can dismiss you on the spot for gross misconduct. All in all, I'd say on forms like that its not worth lying. Especially medical type ones, cause there is very little employers can do without getting in trouble. I know depression is one of the things we are cautious about, but I think if I saw that, as mentined earlier, someone had been off work for 2 months with depression following the deaths of 2 family members, I wouldn't be put off, I'm sure I would be depressed in the situation. I've seen a lot of forms with depression on, 2 months doesnt seem that excessive.

Because a CV can't be considered a legal document really, and there are no guidelines about what should and shouldnt be present, just skip anything you don't want to tell future employers. Try to avoid large gaps in employment history, as these will be quesioned, but if this can easily be covered (eg I was at university, rather than mentioning the 2 months you lasted at McDonalds before walking out after a blazing row with your manager) then its nothing to worry about. Equally if you were only in a job a few weeks there is little need to mention it unless you gained some specific skills you want to include.

And just as general tips for CV's, that I would hope everyone here would know anyway, check it CAREFULLY for spelling and grammar errors, dont just rely on the spellchecker, cause it doesnt pick up everything. And when sending your CV to someone, if you include a cover letter, be just as careful. A poor cover letter with a good CV just shouts 'someone else made my CV for me! I cant even do that for myself!' I've sat in the office laughing at appalling CV's, passing them round for everyone to see.

And if anywhere asks for photos, they will ALWAYS be passed around to laugh at if you look funny. Do not believe anyone that says otherwise.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Ebany

There is a big difference between 'embellishing the truth' ie making what you did at your last job sound a lot fancier than it was, and out-and-out lies. .

What exactly is this 'big difference'?

If you want to lie in order to get a job then fine, but at least have the self-respect not lie to yourself at the same time.

[Ebany]

Making it sound fancier is not lying.

'I was singlehandedly responsible for the preparation and distribution of newspapers and magazines to a daily deadline' sounds a lot better than 'I did a paper round before school', but they are basically saying the same thing.

[Nodrog]

Of course it is - the intent is exactly the same, ie to willfully deceive someone with regards to your achievements. Calling something by a different name doesnt change what it is.

This reminds me of like a lawyer desperately reading through the fine print in order to 'prove' than an A 'isnt actually' a B.

[Ebany]

If someone in Human Resources can't read that for exactly what it says they deserve to be lied to. What it does do is say that you have at least some ability with language.

And why is saying precicely the same thing, just in more elaborate language, lying. You dont appear to have read my post at all. The intent is to display your intelligence, showing what you actually did at your job is merely a sideline.

[NEWSBOT3]

in this thread, people try and justify lying to make up for their lack of self-acheivement.

[Kurashima]

My ex girlfriend just got sacked for lying on her Application form. Bigger companies do follow it up.

[Dante Hicks]

Someone got sacked in my department at work for lying on their application form about the amount of sick days they took in their last job.

To be honest though, they fired them because they had already 3/4 sick days in the month they had been there.

As I say, lying is fine if it's not something which can be factually disproven. I'd mainly go for the embellishment, as Ebany described it. Interests are fine to out and out lie on, so long as you can think on your feet in an interivew if asked.