Your classic "pld" thread (at FAnG)

[Anaram]

So I'm sitting here in front of my computer clapping hands at the incomings I've been offered courtesy of Furious Angels. The following I think quite well summarises the situation:

...
<Anaram> I think I've sent defence to fang every single night since the first night I got ships, until the last few days when my def fleets has not been required before 0400 local time here (which is when I tend to go to sleep, latest)
<Anaram> And I have sent attack fleets on targets I've no hope of roiding simply to cover attacks.
<Anaram> And you'll now roid me for the simple reason that I left fang with the intention of joining phraktos?
<LB|away> yes
<Anaram> ok.
<Anaram> Is there anything in the above statement that you think is not accurate?
<LB|away> you been very good for fang
<LB|away> when you where a member
<LB|away> simple complain
<LB|away> or talking with me a few times
<LB|away> could have solved most of it
<LB|away> leaving to phraktos I find rather selfish
<Anaram> I did talk to alch about it, didn't think it was necessary to run to talk with every HC
...

This chat took place with LB about 3 hours ago. The mentioned talk with alch took place 6 days ago.

So THIS is FAnG for you.

-Anaram - Proud To Be Ðragons, Proud To Be EX-FAnG

[xtothez]

I thought alch stepped down?

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by xtothez

I thought alch stepped down?

He did, but he was still HC at the time.

[The_Fish]

let me get this straight, you jumped ship to Phraktos from FAnG, and you're looking for sympathy that FAnG are attacking you?

hahahahhaahahahahahaha

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

let me get this straight, you jumped ship to Phraktos from FAnG, and you're looking for sympathy that FAnG are attacking you?

hahahahhaahahahahahaha

Yes, you got it absolutely right. No question.

EDIT: lol man, did you even read my post

[The_Fish]

yes, but its late and I've been drinking.

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

yes, but its late and I've been drinking.

That explains a bit, heh. It's still a bit disappointing to get despite attempts to make the post as (mostly, heh, not quite entirely I grant you that) neutral as possible.

[lokken]

as an HC I've been disappointed when a member leaves for whatever reason.

Don't know if i'd be driven to attack anyone if they went to a friendly alliance - if you went to a hostile one (or one that is going to be one soon), well you deserve to be steamrollered to a bloody pulp. Won't stop me from being annoyed otherwise, I have a whole list of players who i've had poached in the past, can't say i was happy about any.

To some treachery is treachery whatever the form, even if its just leaving for a reasonably friendly alliance and HC's can be horribly nasty if they want to be, they are HC's.

Harsh though mate. Are Phraktos defending you?

[Zh|l]

I thought FAnG cant attack Phraktos,

Oh well, looks like we know who the dominator is.

gg FAnG

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

I thought FAnG cant attack Phraktos,

Oh well, looks like we know who the dominator is.

gg FAnG

Surely not the old 'jump ship' to pick the winning side before they turn on each other?

I think we should be told.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by lokken

Surely not the old 'jump ship' to pick the winning side before they turn on each other?

I think we should be told.

And what will Mistu say in response to their allies attacking eachother?

Dun dun dun.... the drama is unbearable...

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

And what will Mistu say in response to their allies attacking eachother?

Dun dun dun.... the drama is unbearable...

Eastenders = gg tbh :/

[alch]

I like when people quote/post logs on AD.
1. Your discussion with LB|away were strictly private, that show how much respect you had for your HC.
2. I dont like people jumping from alliance to alliance ( but it could be that i am the only one.) i stated to many people who wanted to quit their alliance, to first clear this with their allies because i dont like people leaving on bad terms.
you might been a good members until you left FAnG, we do treat our member with respect and at least try our harder,
to come to AD and leave a propaganda Quote just make it lower than anything.
If you would really care about what FAnG represent you would have asked to take a more active role in it and maybe try to change things.
FAnG respected you and FAnG sent you defense when you needed them, and FAnG done many thing for you, so at least dont look at it like you done for FAnG and we didnt give it back.
And when i state FAnG, i state the member as a overall.
But leaving allaince in middle of a round is not appreciated by me.

This is my personal point of view.

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by lokken

as an HC I've been disappointed when a member leaves for whatever reason.

Don't know if i'd be driven to attack anyone if they went to a friendly alliance - if you went to a hostile one (or one that is going to be one soon), well you deserve to be steamrollered to a bloody pulp. Won't stop me from being annoyed otherwise, I have a whole list of players who i've had poached in the past, can't say i was happy about any.

To some treachery is treachery whatever the form, even if its just leaving for a reasonably friendly alliance and HC's can be horribly nasty if they want to be, they are HC's.

Harsh though mate. Are Phraktos defending you?

To the extent that they can, which means: not really. Now, perhaps it's a good idea for the sake of the discussion that I describe the events a bit more thoroughly.

Firstly, when I joined FAnG, I clearly said that I expected two things from FAnG:
1) defence
2) attacks

Defence has been sufficient, with that I've no complain. Attacks have (with a few exceptions) been a nightmare, and this is what I conversed about with alch 5 days before parting with FaNG (6 days ago now). My attack fleet was designed for the sole purpose of roiding somewhat frigate heavy xandathriis, in other words a scythe + scimitar. FAnG TP was seldom announced with sufficient time for me to notice them (I can't guard irc every minute) and when the attacks finally arrived, it often contained none of the scans needed to know if I could take a xandathrii target or not (news, technology and construction scans). Of this I complained multiple times in both FAnG channels and in PM to both alch & forest. Alch promised me improvement, but for each step taken forward, another was taken back. Erratic behaviour continued.

All this time I observe fang "top" planets, with virtually no defence fleets ever sent, and very seldom picking targets in FAnG attacks - even when fleets are grounded "on the pain of getting kicked out of the alliance and roided". Seems to me like there's two sets of rules out there for people.

So I am in a situation where if I send a fleet out, I will get kicked and roided. FAnG is unable to provide me with nothing but the faintest idea of how long the fleets are grounded even when I clearly explain how I am unable to guard IRC for the entire night. This is the last straw, I can and will not respect high council which threatens their own members such while allowing others to blatantly bend the rules.

So what is the situation now? I'm not getting attack by FAnG for the reasons of having left FAnG, for LB personally told me in PM that it would have been 'fine' if I had left to join mistu for example. I am still in a galaxy with FAnG members, and a galaxy which is in FAnG block, this has not changed. I did not swap sides, nor did I leave FAnG until it was perfectly clear that the war was as good as 'over'. I could probably quote FAnG HC quite explicitly replying to concerns voiced my some members before the round that neutrals in FAnG galaxies would not get attacked (except I tend not make quotes without permission and I truncate log files to 100k). Did I somehow become hostile then, by declaring intention to join a particular friendly alliance? Leaving FAnG at a stage when the round is clearly won, for an alliance which has acceptable TP is such an offence that the whole world be torn apart for it.

Those who wish to claim that mine leaving FAnG was selfish are right, of course the action was selfish. But I do follow a code of honour too, and it dictates that I will not be a member of an alliance which is not an alliance FOR it's members. I refuse to support a system which relies on threats to keep it's members.

So I asked Forest if he wanted to comment on FAnG HC pre-round statement that FAnG neutrals would attack neutrals in FAnG galaxies not he said that the HC hadn't allowed for him to talk to me anymore. When I confronted alch (to whom forest pointed me), he also refused to comment on this, stating that there was an agreement with (someone, didn't come accross).

The biggest insult though is that it is Forest now roiding me. If FAnG had any decency left, they would not be giving these certain free roids to their BC.

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by alch

I like when people quote/post logs on AD.
1. Your discussion with LB|away were strictly private, that show how much respect you had for your HC.

[00:35:27] <Anaram> I'm not in the habit of quoting private conversations forward, but after this line, don't write unless you ok it.

This is from private conversation from LB|away prior to the quote made above. I don't think I need a permission to quote myself, at least?

[Anaram]

Oh, I totally forgot to mention the development in the situation. 3 waves without defence has been agreed to be given on FAnG, first of those waves being Forest (worth about 300 roids for losses that look to be about 40-50 frigates)

[alch]

i wont reply to all this propaganda - just make this clear - its not OK to leave to any alliances.
point.
Im glad that you quoted some given lines other than others. you can frankly control the whole discussion efect by doing so which is why thread with quote of logs should be banned.
But again, you are free to quote whatever you want, if anyone has a problem or has a question regarding this event or the accusation Anaram has against The alliance, i will gladly answer them in 5 days (me being on vacation) in a PRIVATE conversation which will not be pasted in any thread on any forums.
Thanks.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by alch

i wont reply to all this propaganda - just make this clear - its not OK to leave to any alliances.
point.
Im glad that you quoted some given lines other than others. you can frankly control the whole discussion efect by doing so which is why thread with quote of logs should be banned.
But again, you are free to quote whatever you want, if anyone has a problem or has a question regarding this event or the accusation Anaram has against The alliance, i will gladly answer them in 5 days (me being on vacation) in a PRIVATE conversation which will not be pasted in any thread on any forums.
Thanks.

It would be easier just to answer in public, unless you have something to hide.

[lokken]

The most amusing part in all this, is that the alliance you joined refuses to back you in the slightest, just agrees a retal like that (3 whole waves indeed!) - it seems quite spineless to me, or either you are talking bollocks, cos any reasonable alliance would back you if you had a case and not let you get triple waved. Hell even Titans had the balls to do something about it when they had someone defect from Fury in r7 (PLEASE LETS NOT DEBATE THIS AGAIN). Bit of a shame all this really, it's always fun when things kick off by accident rather than design.

Though odds seem in your favour at the moment as i get the impression u r getting roided as lol u have nice roids lol, although you do seem to have annoyed them with all the moaning on AD and all. Would be nice to have some word from the other sides who seem rather silent on the whole issue!

[virogenesis]

Anaram demand a retal from Phraktos they attacking a allied planet thats your best bet the fact that you have jumped from one allie to another doesn't matter in this case the fact you joint a allied alliance in which is friendly now how ever Phraktos deal with this is up to them.
Will Mistu support Phraktos in all of this i wonder?
Will they defend FAnG if Phraktos attack or will they help FAnG thats the question good luck in getting a retal

[Hicks]

There's a reason they call it private messaging.

[virogenesis]

Anaram i suggest you leave Phraktos for Mistu cos allowing them to roid you is not on....
That ain't a alliance for its members either you're getting roided for your roids.... thats the impression i am getting.....
Atm iit seems FAnG are in the round as they haven't said you hit a allied planet or defended against them its a real pitty your getting hit

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by lokken

The most amusing part in all this, is that the alliance you joined refuses to back you in the slightest, just agrees a retal like that (3 whole waves indeed!) - it seems quite spineless to me, or either you are talking bollocks, cos any reasonable alliance would back you if you had a case and not let you get triple waved. Hell even Titans had the balls to do something about it when they had someone defect from Fury in r7 (PLEASE LETS NOT DEBATE THIS AGAIN). Bit of a shame all this really, it's always fun when things kick off by accident rather than design.

Though odds seem in your favour at the moment as i get the impression u r getting roided as lol u have nice roids lol, although you do seem to have annoyed them with all the moaning on AD and all. Would be nice to have some word from the other sides who seem rather silent on the whole issue!

I would have to say that it is practically impossible to attempt to defend with the current ETA system, you need to spend 72 hours jgp'ing a planet with thumbs up. Let's not blame phraktos for that, I can't ask them for that much. So many hours was spent arguing over this between the HC's that I can't really blame 'em for striking a deal.

As to my AD thread, it was posted after the attacks on me anyway, hardly a claim for FAnG to attack me that. I wish to make a point with this thread. My point is that I was not happy with the way things were run in FAnG, and it was extremely difficult for me to join their attacks. (From tomorrow - now today - onwards it would have been impossible for a week or so).

EDIT: ok so I'm tired and didn't actually write what my point was. My point was that if a situation arose that I practically couldn't join FAnG attacks, isn't it a bit overkill for FAnG to roid me for that? Is it reasonable for an alliance to keep it's members by the force of threat that "We will roid you if you leave us!" Is that the kind of alliance behaviour we want to be seeing?

[Legator]

lol.

damnit how good it was in VisioN

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by alch

i wont reply to all this propaganda - just make this clear - its not OK to leave to any alliances.
point.
Im glad that you quoted some given lines other than others. you can frankly control the whole discussion efect by doing so which is why thread with quote of logs should be banned.
But again, you are free to quote whatever you want, if anyone has a problem or has a question regarding this event or the accusation Anaram has against The alliance, i will gladly answer them in 5 days (me being on vacation) in a PRIVATE conversation which will not be pasted in any thread on any forums.
Thanks.

It's quite ludicrous that you still choose to attack me on pasting a private convo even when I quite plainly stated that I might be doing so before that conversation. If I told you "Sure, feel free to quote me on anything I'll be saying" I sure wouldn't be attacking you for it if you did. I will not take quotes from private conversation unless I've acquired prior permission. What comes to summarizing conversations, surely there's nothing wrong with that. The merit having an exact quote is that it "can't" be tampered with (unless, of course, the other party comes around and claims that I did tamper with the quotes) - they are quite absolute. I pasted only partial conversation for the reasons that I did not see the relevance of pasting everything. Would that have been better in your opinion?

Q: "What did you talk about with XX?"
A: "I'm sorry, I can't say because we typed in PM" OR "I spoke about the reasons why I left the alliance and how he said it would have been fine for me to join Mistu"

Surely you don't see anything wrong with the latter either.

Indeed, if it would not have been ok to mistu why did LB say so. He quite specificly stated that it would have been fine to leave to mistu but phraktos he couldn't accept.

Feel free to quote me on any part of our private conversations if you wish to show that I have left an important part of the discussion out in an attempt to obfuscate the matter. LB - you are also welcome to quote me if you so feel as are Forest and Kjeldoran.

[Zh|l]

Question is:

Why is it okay for you go to Mistu but not Phraktos?

[virogenesis]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

Question is:

Why is it okay for you go to Mistu but not Phraktos?

Some one is gonna get backstabbed

[Morden]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

Question is:

Why is it okay for you go to Mistu but not Phraktos?

One has two balls and a backbone and the other does not I assume.

Any alliance which lets people roid there own members for very little reason deserves to be stabbed.

Also a note to alch, it is not up to the members to fix the problems of the alliance, if the HC and Officers cannot fix them, then they should stand down and appoint people who can.

But saying that if they want decent service they should ask to do it themselves is rather ludicrous, and suicidal from the HC perspective (very easy to gain officer placed spies)

[Synthetic_Sid]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

Question is:

Why is it okay for you go to Mistu but not Phraktos?

Because there's no chance of Mistu overtaking Fang for #1 alliance position. That's what this all boils down to. Phraktos/Fang both badly want to finish #1 alliance - no matter how worthless the means by which they achieve it.

[General Martok]

Originally Posted by Anaram

I would have to say that it is practically impossible to attempt to defend with the current ETA system, you need to spend 72 hours jgp'ing a planet with thumbs up. Let's not blame phraktos for that, I can't ask them for that much. So many hours was spent arguing over this between the HC's that I can't really blame 'em for striking a deal.

And how about your galaxy? I understand the Fang galmates are not gonna defend you (defending against own alliance would be risking your own memberships ofc). But you stated you are in a block galaxy, so I suppose you got Mistu/Phraktos galmates. What was their course of action?

Seems Fang is afraid of another Pax / elysium scam again, can't really blame them for that.

[Rumad]

alot of hot air in this thread.

If FAnG is and will continue o hold he number 1 alliance spot. Simply you left and there is a 24 hour slot in which phraktos cannot defend where the individual is truely allianceless. The decision was taken that actio needed to be taken and has. Everyone can take some moralistic view but at the end of a day its a game and roids are roids.

[virogenesis]

I totaly agree with what Synthetic_Sid has said its exaclty right about FAnG wanting the top spot how many alliances don't want it & General Martok is also correct but stoppoing your allies from joining another alliance is just inmoral to say the least its a cowardly action .
I wonder what else they will do next attack allies....umm already done that in previous rounds & with a dodgy n00b (Forest helping out you can expect some back stabbers going on in the camps)

Originally Posted by Rumad

alot of hot air in this thread.

If FAnG is and will continue o hold he number 1 alliance spot. Simply you left and there is a 24 hour slot in which phraktos cannot defend where the individual is truely allianceless. The decision was taken that actio needed to be taken and has. Everyone can take some moralistic view but at the end of a day its a game and roids are roids.

Isn't FAnG meant to have morals they talk about morals all the time....

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by Rumad

alot of hot air in this thread.

If FAnG is and will continue o hold he number 1 alliance spot. Simply you left and there is a 24 hour slot in which phraktos cannot defend where the individual is truely allianceless. The decision was taken that actio needed to be taken and has. Everyone can take some moralistic view but at the end of a day its a game and roids are roids.

72 hours to be exact. It's a game so I will do my very best to make sure FAnG will take the highest possible respect loss for this, if indeed people think it's something for which respect would be lost

[-=Zyth=-]

Dont you have gal m8s?

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by -=Zyth=-

Dont you have gal m8s?

WP / Phraktos members got ordered to recall their defence boats by their HCs, and there's an extent beyond which I'm not willing to jeopardise their rounds with this issue. FAnG said they would attack any planets in the galaxy that would defend.

EDIT: actually I can only rightly say that WP got ordered, I do not know about Phraktos.

[Tomkat]

Heh, I think Sid hit the nail on the head (if a little bluntly).

Remember last round? FAnG have hardly had nice experiences with members moving out and leaving them high and dry. You were an example case, Anaram. No other members are going to think twice about jumping ship now are they?

To be honest, you shouldn't have run off to another alliance - especially a friendly one. You should have spoken with the HC about your concerns (what are they - that you find it hard to get decent targets as you're not on all the time? If this is an obvious problem within the alliance, I'm sure the HC would want to fix it.
We foresaw this problem in MISTU, and now have our target picking at the same time every night (give or take 10 mins). Daylight raids are random mostly, but you get plenty of warning. I'm sure the HC and the officers of FAnG could have done this too, if you'd voiced your opinion instead of running off whining to another alliance.

[-=Zyth=-]

FAnG show their true colours.

*SHOCKER*

The crack about not talking about PMs on the boards even when they are crapping all over you shows how far up their own arses they are.

imo

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Heh, I think Sid hit the nail on the head (if a little bluntly).

Remember last round? FAnG have hardly had nice experiences with members moving out and leaving them high and dry. You were an example case, Anaram. No other members are going to think twice about jumping ship now are they?

To be honest, you shouldn't have run off to another alliance - especially a friendly one. You should have spoken with the HC about your concerns (what are they - that you find it hard to get decent targets as you're not on all the time? If this is an obvious problem within the alliance, I'm sure the HC would want to fix it.
We foresaw this problem in MISTU, and now have our target picking at the same time every night (give or take 10 mins). Daylight raids are random mostly, but you get plenty of warning. I'm sure the HC and the officers of FAnG could have done this too, if you'd voiced your opinion instead of running off whining to another alliance.

As I already stated I took this issue up multiple times on channels and once in PM with a HC (5 days before leaving) and once with BC(~~ three days before leaving), but there's only so many times one can complain about issues and simply wait if very little is visibly being accomplished. But one has to understand FAnG HC - if they can't keep members by being a good alliance, then by jolly they will keep members by making sure that they are too scared to leave.

I'm also aware that they are setting an example here, LB|away said as much.

[Colt]

Originally Posted by Anaram

All this time I observe fang "top" planets, with virtually no defence fleets ever sent, and very seldom picking targets in FAnG attacks - even when fleets are grounded "on the pain of getting kicked out of the alliance and roided". Seems to me like there's two sets of rules out there for people.

That is complete bullshit....

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by Colt

That is complete bullshit....

My statement might be somewhat inaccurate but by no means totally.

EDIT: Would you perhaps like to state - for example - that you didn't pick a target in an attack outside of FAnG at a time when FAnG fleets were to be grounded the other night?

[virogenesis]

Originally Posted by Colt

That is complete bullshit....

Colt I myself am aware that alliances do allow the bigger planets to do stuff the smaller members can't
ie: LDK got to roid ppl while the rest of xanadu had their fleets grounded.

[Kjeldoran]

The situation is simple.

Anaram left, FAnG takes back the 1200 roids we defended and helped you to achieve. The 3 waves "present" from phraktos is a JOKE and we will roid him dry till we got what we want (fleet included or not we don't give a shit).

Phraktos just shouldn't poach members and recruit em untill then can add em ingame. Aslong as he's not added, he's alliance to fang and will get waved.

Now, get over it, move ...

btw Anaram, nothing personal, I even pm'd you and tried to convince you to stay, but I failed.

rgds Kj

[Jackal2112]

Forest.. haha. whats new... you shoulda just reported him for farming.

Shipjumping tbh I'd say you deserved what you got. and alch 'supposedly' retired months ago (private reasons and getting 0wned in the speedround -muahahah) I wonder why he is still playing.. and all FAnG HC have long toes its unlikely you can take a walk without stumbling over them. GL in phraktos m8.

[Jackal2112]

Why do PA FAnG HC still let that retard Kjel spam AD btw?

didnt he step down after he caused the destruction of PA FAnG last round?

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by virogenesis

I totaly agree with what Synthetic_Sid has said its exaclty right about FAnG wanting the top spot how many alliances don't want it & General Martok is also correct but stoppoing your allies from joining another alliance is just inmoral to say the least its a cowardly action .
I wonder what else they will do next attack allies....umm already done that in previous rounds & with a dodgy n00b (Forest helping out you can expect some back stabbers going on in the camps)


Isn't FAnG meant to have morals they talk about morals all the time....

and morals have exactly what to do with a member leaving and deciding that we would be of most benefit to keep those roids?

He had defence off us and grew with us. Its our choice to take back what is given.

HE made a decision so did we - not a moralistic or a victory at any cost - simply a decision made in a very small universe were roids are scarce, he made teh decision to leave and took teh risk. We simply made a decision about where the roids are best placed.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Anaram

72 hours to be exact. It's a game so I will do my very best to make sure FAnG will take the highest possible respect loss for this, if indeed people think it's something for which respect would be lost

actually respect wont be lost - you just look bitter and upset - which yu are allowed to be.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by virogenesis

I totaly agree with what Synthetic_Sid has said its exaclty right about FAnG wanting the top spot how many alliances don't want it & General Martok is also correct but stoppoing your allies from joining another alliance is just inmoral to say the least its a cowardly action .
I wonder what else they will do next attack allies....umm already done that in previous rounds & with a dodgy n00b (Forest helping out you can expect some back stabbers going on in the camps)


Isn't FAnG meant to have morals they talk about morals all the time....

FAnG HAS NEVER EVER backstabbed an ally. Get your details correct ...

rgds Kj

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Jackal2112

Why do PA FAnG HC still let that retard Kjel spam AD btw?

didnt he step down after he caused the destruction of PA FAnG last round?

Individuals are not forced to be quiet - any idividual can say anything they want and if i am honest i agree completely with kj's response.

he left, we roided, he is free after the 72 hours to go to whom he wants, but dont expect us to allow members we have helped grow leave on a wim without penalty. We helped him keep those roids with our ships. He made a choice and now he has to live with that choice.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Jackal2112

Forest.. haha. whats new... you shoulda just reported him for farming.

Shipjumping tbh I'd say you deserved what you got. and alch 'supposedly' retired months ago (private reasons and getting 0wned in the speedround -muahahah) I wonder why he is still playing.. and all FAnG HC have long toes its unlikely you can take a walk without stumbling over them. GL in phraktos m8.

Alch did idd go away for 1 month and didn't plan on returning any time soon. But somehow he managed to get back, which we appreciate alot. At the time he posted that quit thread, he had no idea that he'd return.

About me posting, I don't think any FAnGer or whatever person can and will tell me not to post on AD anymore. Oohh and, I didn't kill FAnG last round, since it was an HC decision. I, as CEO, just took full resp on me and stepped down. Doesn't mean I'm still helping FAnG wherever I can.

Stop trolling and insulting, it just makes you look bittered.

rgds Kj

[Anaram]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

The situation is simple.

Anaram left, FAnG takes back the 1200 roids we defended and helped you to achieve. The 3 waves "present" from phraktos is a JOKE and we will roid him dry till we got what we want (fleet included or not we don't give a shit).

Phraktos just shouldn't poach members and recruit em untill then can add em ingame. Aslong as he's not added, he's alliance to fang and will get waved.

Now, get over it, move ...

btw Anaram, nothing personal, I even pm'd you and tried to convince you to stay, but I failed.

rgds Kj

So what you are stating that quotes I have (BUT WILL NOT POST, DON'T START ON IT AGAIN) from two fang officers are bogus, made up, void, that I should expect even more incomings from FAnG? The plot certainly grows even more exciting.

I was not approached before my departure from FAnG by Phraktos HC's (or any other members for that matter) so I don't see Phraktos "poaching" me.

Frankly, I don't see what your PM has anything to do with anything. I'd have been happy to see enough honesty and integrity from FAnG for them to state that "if you leave us, we will roid you." Now that might have convinced me, or then not.