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Unread 19 Apr 2005, 18:07   #1
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R13 Race Balance

http://sandmans.co.uk/?p=rankplanet&...ue&order2=DESC

http://sandmans.co.uk/?p=racestats

Comment. I want to know what you think about Ziks.
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Unread 19 Apr 2005, 18:11   #2
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Every1 knew this would happen.. what is their to say..
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Unread 19 Apr 2005, 19:04   #3
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Re: R13 Race Balance

remember its also the case that this roudn perhaps more than others new inexperianced players won;t be going zik beucase of the descriptions on the signups page
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Unread 19 Apr 2005, 20:32   #4
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Re: R13 Race Balance

I said at the start, zik will win.

and people said no......
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Unread 19 Apr 2005, 20:38   #5
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
remember its also the case that this roudn perhaps more than others new inexperianced players won;t be going zik beucase of the descriptions on the signups page
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Unread 19 Apr 2005, 20:48   #6
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Zikonians have steal ships. Of course they'll have more value.

However, their ships 'aren't very good'

Go farm them for their XP.
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Unread 19 Apr 2005, 23:55   #7
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Ziks can grow without going for roids, just send some ships along with someone's attack without pods or into defense or just send ships into a planet without pods all for value.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 00:38   #8
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Re: R13 Race Balance

This is true, ziks have 8 pods, not 2 like the other races. On the other hand there is a trade off to getting bloated with value... you rapidly lose viable targets.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 01:31   #9
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Re: R13 Race Balance

also the hideous init of the xik ships means that half the time a tiny planet with only pods can usually cap if he finds the rifgt target getting **** loads of XP
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 03:19   #10
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Re: R13 Race Balance

I really think that the balance this round is one of the best we've had since PaX
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 08:25   #11
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by ph8
I really think that the balance this round is one of the best we've had since PaX
You think round 10 was balanced? Well I guess it was... but it was also DULL DULL DULL!
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 08:48   #12
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Ph8 probably meant by "since PaX" something like: since we got the current planetarion style, not specifically R10.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 09:48   #13
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Re: R13 Race Balance

In that case I still think round 11 was the most balanced for stats. Just let down by the crappy race ratio which let the xands run away with it.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 10:53   #14
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Master
This is true, ziks have 8 pods, not 2 like the other races. On the other hand there is a trade off to getting bloated with value... you rapidly lose viable targets.
To summarize and add up a few points:

- High value, little targets.
- High value, little XP.
- High value, XP-hunters at your rear (unless your fleet is a fortress though).

You'll really need control.
You can't allow your fleet to blow over 6 pod classes, because then you'll end up having a very varied fleet, a high value, and nothing you can hit. Suiciding off-class ships is a tactic, and keeping on a compact fleet requires some caretaking and attention when you pick targets from the few avaible. In all of it, it *does* require quite a bit and it is *rewarding*.

Admitted, to top100 is getting more and more zikonian heavy as I look at it. Even the averages are a bit... leaning towards zik.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 12:09   #15
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Ziks are a bit overpower imo

That they can only attack a few targets is easily manipulated..

Lokken says their ships arn't that good? Well they are imo
They can land with much bigger losses then other races;
to get rid of ships or they just compensate their losses by stealing ships..
(I know they have to coz of low init.. but they still can take more losses)
They can also cheat a bit with with roiding by adding multiple kinda pods.

They do much more damage to their targets
and because they can land more often then other races they usually have plenty of XP

Not to mention the kill/sub ships that they already have stolen that add to their fleets..
Which makes them exellent defenders.. Other races wont land with high losses (kills or stolen)
Nobody wants to give their ships to a zik

They may have high value but that doenst makes people rather attack zik instead of other races like cath.. (their XP players tho but most people look for roids and a safe landing)
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 12:23   #16
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Re: R13 Race Balance

I think the stats makers are to be applauded this round, the stats are better than they have been in a long time.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 12:24   #17
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
I think the stats makers are to be applauded this round, the stats are better than they have been in a long time.
true
The stats are very cool
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 14:10   #18
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
I think the stats makers are to be applauded this round, the stats are better than they have been in a long time.
I think the one that made corsairs target cr with eta7 should be shot
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:13   #19
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Re: R13 Race Balance

You *could* build tulas. Only looked at targetting though, since I´m not playing I haven´t looked very well at the stats, tula´s might as well suck in firepower/armour.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 15:44   #20
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Re: R13 Race Balance

The secret to ziks this round I have found is:

Create two attack fleets that are purely one ship class, but each one sustains the other by capturing more of the other ship class. Very effective. I cream off the other ship classes I capture for def purposes.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 16:24   #21
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
I think the one that made corsairs target cr with eta7 should be shot
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 18:15   #22
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
I think the one that made corsairs target cr with eta7 should be shot

Don't shoot Jester.



Shoot the people who were promoting Cath pre-round so that a significant amount of the paid accounts went that way this round. If the universe wasn't so stuffed with roaches, tulas, and hornets, I'm sure there'd be a lot less corsairs around. You do realize key ships are made by the universe situation more often by the stats.
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 19:07   #23
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
I think the stats makers are to be applauded this round, the stats are better than they have been in a long time.
Having taken part in the private beta and seen all the hard work that went into the stats, I totally agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
I think the one that made corsairs target cr with eta7 should be shot
I agree that it's very annoying, but as a Cath myself, with corsairs in defence I still cap max roids. Since I'm attacking Ziks for the XP rewards right now, it's totally worth it.

http://parser.visionhq.org/index.php...a5cd00e08100ee

I was one of the attackers in that report. For the loss of 30k value, I gained 100k score in XP - a net result of an increase in score of 70000 points.

In the long run, I think that this sort of attack is going to be very very successful. We can see from the current rankings the importance of XP, and once all the Ziks exceed the bash limit, there's going to be some very entertaining roiding for all the non-Ziks. What seems like an advantage for them now (high value via stealing) will become a disadvantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Don't shoot Jester.



Shoot the people who were promoting Cath pre-round so that a significant amount of the paid accounts went that way this round. If the universe wasn't so stuffed with roaches, tulas, and hornets, I'm sure there'd be a lot less corsairs around. You do realize key ships are made by the universe situation more often by the stats.
I totally agree. Loving your posts right now
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Unread 21 Apr 2005, 20:34   #24
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Don't shoot Jester.



Shoot the people who were promoting Cath pre-round so that a significant amount of the paid accounts went that way this round. If the universe wasn't so stuffed with roaches, tulas, and hornets, I'm sure there'd be a lot less corsairs around. You do realize key ships are made by the universe situation more often by the stats.
I went Cathaar for exactly this reason. Only I'm roiding cats using Co fleets
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 10:18   #25
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Don't shoot Jester.



Shoot the people who were promoting Cath pre-round so that a significant amount of the paid accounts went that way this round. If the universe wasn't so stuffed with roaches, tulas, and hornets, I'm sure there'd be a lot less corsairs around. You do realize key ships are made by the universe situation more often by the stats.
It's not about the universe being stuffed with cr, it's about a ship that can't be targetted effectively by cath cr (Tarants are useless), and gives people 3 hours to get defence, which, in this game, is too much.Terrans don't have this disadvantage. There is no eta7 bs targetting ship in the game.
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 10:38   #26
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonentity
I agree that it's very annoying, but as a Cath myself, with corsairs in defence I still cap max roids. Since I'm attacking Ziks for the XP rewards right now, it's totally worth it.

http://parser.visionhq.org/index.php...a5cd00e08100ee

I was one of the attackers in that report. For the loss of 30k value, I gained 100k score in XP - a net result of an increase in score of 70000 points.
Well, for most of us, value is all. You don't win wars by xp farming. In war, your planet is only worth its value. You lost 1/3 of your roiding fleet in one day. Given the current round situation, where almost nobody keeps his roids for more than 3-4 days, you would not be able to keep on losing so much fleet, since at some point you won't have any decent fleet to attack, defend or roid.

Fleet analysis won't show the stolen xan ships either, so beware .
I don't know much about Terrans or Xans, but Caths are definitely underpowered, being unable to defend effectively against any attack, and Ziks definitely overpowered, their ships may fire last of all, but they can steal a lot of value in ships, too much for my taste.
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 10:55   #27
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
It's not about the universe being stuffed with cr, it's about a ship that can't be targetted effectively by cath cr (Tarants are useless), and gives people 3 hours to get defence, which, in this game, is too much.Terrans don't have this disadvantage. There is no eta7 bs targetting ship in the game.
On the other hand, though, terran BS have different issues. Pirate (edit. oh, dragons and CR) isn't even targetted by them (even if it gives just one hour), and bwids, chims, and XPKs all get to fire on terran BS if any are in the defensive side. On sidenote, cathaar has the possibility of deflecting major parts of the defence by shooting them down.

And I do not think you can deny that the high amount of cathaars in the universe is contributing to the explosive numbers of corsairs.

On the other hand, three ticks is a long time.
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 12:29   #28
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Shoot the people who were promoting Cath pre-round so that a significant amount of the paid accounts went that way this round. If the universe wasn't so stuffed with roaches, tulas, and hornets, I'm sure there'd be a lot less corsairs around. You do realize key ships are made by the universe situation more often by the stats.
Im rather confused what you mean here, if it wasnt cath people would of gone terran, wasnt terran then xan and so, but I dont actually know if you looked at the stats, but cath was the most attractive race apart from its vulnarability to fr incoming, ive played cath most rnds and this rnd it looked the best imo, roidable but considering it fires before most other ships it can roid for pretty much free in certain cases. There wasnt a pre round hype it was FACT that cathaar would be the strongest race out there coupled with zikonian.
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 12:59   #29
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
There wasnt a pre round hype it was FACT that cathaar would be the strongest race out there coupled with zikonian.
What I meant is, shouting out that IT IS A FACT THAT CATHAAR IS THE STRONGEST race everywhere of course attracted a lot of people into playing with cathaar. Call it whatever you want. Are cathaar now the strongest race, or were the general foresights false?
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 13:19   #30
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Im rather confused what you mean here, if it wasnt cath people would of gone terran, wasnt terran then xan and so, but I dont actually know if you looked at the stats, but cath was the most attractive race apart from its vulnarability to fr incoming, ive played cath most rnds and this rnd it looked the best imo, roidable but considering it fires before most other ships it can roid for pretty much free in certain cases. There wasnt a pre round hype it was FACT that cathaar would be the strongest race out there coupled with zikonian.
Actually, not strong enough .
Any xan can outflak a cath with the massive fi, or massive fr he decides to build. Since pods are so hard to stop, he will get through with no problems.
Same goes for all other races. Any race can outflak caths effectively.
What i don't agree is on the effectiveness of cath roiding ships. Most ziks have lots of buccaneers, Xans have loads of vsh and lancers, terrans have phoenixes.
Caths can only either outflak other caths, or hit xans with roaches and CR ships, and hope for the damn corsairs to not ruin their attack.
Maybe i am being biased, but i don't see cath as one of the strongest races. I actually see them as one of the weakest this round.
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 13:47   #31
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Actually, not strong enough .
Any xan can outflak a cath with the massive fi, or massive fr he decides to build. Since pods are so hard to stop, he will get through with no problems.
Same goes for all other races. Any race can outflak caths effectively.
What i don't agree is on the effectiveness of cath roiding ships. Most ziks have lots of buccaneers, Xans have loads of vsh and lancers, terrans have phoenixes.
Caths can only either outflak other caths, or hit xans with roaches and CR ships, and hope for the damn corsairs to not ruin their attack.
Maybe i am being biased, but i don't see cath as one of the strongest races. I actually see them as one of the weakest this round.
I aggree but cath will always be able to fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietaja
What I meant is, shouting out that IT IS A FACT THAT CATHAAR IS THE STRONGEST race everywhere of course attracted a lot of people into playing with cathaar. Call it whatever you want. Are cathaar now the strongest race, or were the general foresights false?
Im sure people rather clicked on the link called stats and read them and saw how good cath was, as well as playing with them in beta. I saw the flaw in cath thus went xan which I feel is the strongest race against cathaar
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 14:16   #32
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Re: R13 Race Balance

I thought only a little while ago xan were supposed to be cath's primary targets, now it seems to have reversed. Btw what flaw? and why didnt you tell me
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 16:26   #33
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neferti
In that case I still think round 11 was the most balanced for stats. Just let down by the crappy race ratio which let the xands run away with it.
Urgh, I hated round 11.

As a zik, it was nigh on impossible to roid a xan without making a huge sacrifice in ships, unless they didn't build any vsh. It was also night on impossible to roid a terran. Infact, the only viable targets were caths and ziks. In turn, I could easily be roided by Ziks caths terrans and xands. If we were to play with those stats again, there's simply no way in hell I'd pick ziks; whereas with current stats, I would be reasonably happy playing any of the races (caths my least faves).

As for ziks, I believe a larger percentage of paid planets went for ziks. Paid planets are more likely to do better, therefore leading to a better avg score, surely?

Maybe I'm pulling stuff out of my ass though. I do like being able to get amazing XP off zik value whores, just a pity that one of them stole half my fleet yesterday (Hi LukeyLove! ) and I hardly got any salvage. Overall though, I'm very happy with the stats this round. Except it does make the poor DC comparitively impotent :/
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 20:44   #34
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
As for ziks, I believe a larger percentage of paid planets went for ziks. Paid planets are more likely to do better, therefore leading to a better avg score, surely?
From over here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
I asked Kal and he said the ratio (of paid accounts, obviously) is about:
Ter: 1
Cath: 2.5
Xan: 2
Zik: 1.75
I think that:

Cath have issues, in particular because almost everyone went for CR, in part because a lot of people looked at their stats and thought they'd improved over last round. I also think a lot of top players failed to foresee how bloody this round was going to be.

Zik look like they have some issues. The Thief would be my culprit as a bad design choice. The Thief, however, is also what makes FR roiding most viable. The fact that Zik fire last mean that they're guaranteed lossy roiding on almost every attack. All they can do is try to make it repay.

My initial idea for solutions would be to cycle Corsair, Thief, Cutlass targeting, so they target FI, CR and FR respectively. Then increase power on the Bucc, I'm inclined to say significantly. As in put its armor efficiency into the 60s range and damage up about 20%. I'd also put the Cutlass initiative under the Bucc's.

The effects would be:
Drakes would be more important. Arrowheads would be more important. Buccs would be crux rather than Thieves. CO would be more important and more likely to actually steal FR.

Cath would be hit by this, but the Tarantula would go from niche to useless, so fleets would be more Roach-oriented.

Xan would have abundance of Sents rather than Vsh. This increases power on the Beetle, but decreases FI power overall, especially since you get less firepower/armor per buck, and less flakking value.

Zik would no longer have pissing contests when attacking eachother. With Cutlass init lower than Bucc it'd be a contested battle of applied force rather than a big swap-meet.
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 21:22   #35
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
From over here.

Zik look like they have some issues. The Thief would be my culprit as a bad design choice. The Thief, however, is also what makes FR roiding most viable. The fact that Zik fire last mean that they're guaranteed lossy roiding on almost every attack. All they can do is try to make it repay.

I don't know what you mean by lossy roiding, I've only had my zik FR attack fleet stopped once all round. In every case the defender has either run, or tried to fight and lost more them me (meaning I stole more value then I lost). I've had a lot of trouble hanging on to roids, cause I always steal after my roids have been taken, but that's just fine, because I always come home with ships. Plus the fact that I loose roids a lot keeps my value down allowing me to continue to attack smaller targets and therefore gain XP. Since with zik you don't need roids to have a big fleet it really works out well. In addition having been able to capture ships have given me whole fleets of non-zik ships to use on ally defense. Other then the point that zik's are easy to roid I think most of the other objections to zik's in this thread are wrong, at least as far as I have seen in game play.
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Unread 22 Apr 2005, 23:00   #36
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
I don't know what you mean by lossy roiding, I've only had my zik FR attack fleet stopped once all round. In every case the defender has either run, or tried to fight and lost more them me (meaning I stole more value then I lost). I've had a lot of trouble hanging on to roids, cause I always steal after my roids have been taken, but that's just fine, because I always come home with ships. Plus the fact that I loose roids a lot keeps my value down allowing me to continue to attack smaller targets and therefore gain XP. Since with zik you don't need roids to have a big fleet it really works out well. In addition having been able to capture ships have given me whole fleets of non-zik ships to use on ally defense. Other then the point that zik's are easy to roid I think most of the other objections to zik's in this thread are wrong, at least as far as I have seen in game play.
Congratulations, you are a good Zik player, who has understood how to use Zik's problems to your advantage.
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Unread 23 Apr 2005, 07:12   #37
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Cath have issues, Zik look like they have some issues.
tbh, i'd say that Xans have some issues as well, Edit: though i conceed everyone is interested in furthering their own race for selfish purposes , incl me . Notably anti BA and CR targeting (Peacekeepers and Bombers respectfully). Whilst it might just be me, i've found being a xan is really hard to defend against BA and CR attacks - Battleship raids on Xans get messy when Dragons fire on Peacekeepers - you effectively need to stun the battleships and then kill them which is terribly inefficient. Cath Roaches tend to stun a whole shedload of Bombers before the bombers can finally overwhelm them and get in shots (which are comparatively weak compared to other xan killing ability) - many a time Corsairs have been the last line of defence and have provided the straw that breaks the llama's back.

Though i dont suppose many other Xans get 600 CR and/or 200 BA attacking them every night :\

Quote:
My initial idea for solutions would be to cycle Corsair, Thief, Cutlass targeting, so they target FI, CR and FR respectively. Then increase power on the Bucc, I'm inclined to say significantly. As in put its armor efficiency into the 60s range and damage up about 20%. I'd also put the Cutlass initiative under the Bucc's.
Whilst i'm not too sure about the power upgrades etc that you are suggesting (that would require me doing some calcs ) - what you would effectively be doing is adding another fighter that targets FI - along with Sents and Harpies. If you were to do this, then Sentinels would again regin supreme as an attacking ship - the only thing xans would need to build would be Sents & Daggers and hope that there wont be much in-gal Pegs or Tarants (pulsars may discourage Pegs as well). As it stands, xans need to build Vsh, Sents AND Daggers for an effective FI combo - the more distributed the building is the better i think.

Quote:
The effects would be:
Drakes would be more important. Arrowheads would be more important. Buccs would be crux rather than Thieves. CO would be more important and more likely to actually steal FR.
I dont know about you, but Arrowheads are the only ship that i have that is guarenteed never to be home. my 5k are always out somewhere defending against Zik FR fleets (of which there seem to be a near infinite number). I dont really see how they could be MORE important, but if they are then i worry as already alot of my cash goes into them .

Quote:
Cath would be hit by this, but the Tarantula would go from niche to useless, so fleets would be more Roach-oriented.
More roaches further exacerbates the helplessness of Xans.


Tbh, what i would be looking at is the uselessness of Terran DE fleets - i only ever see about one DE attack a night (and i'm a DC) and it almost always gets covered just from the random DE ships that everyone has (provided there are fleets ofc :\).

Actually. dont address that issue. it makes it easier to defend as it stands
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Unread 24 Apr 2005, 02:04   #38
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
tbh, i'd say that Xans have some issues as well, Edit: though i conceed everyone is interested in furthering their own race for selfish purposes , incl me . Notably anti BA and CR targeting (Peacekeepers and Bombers respectfully). Whilst it might just be me, i've found being a xan is really hard to defend against BA and CR attacks - Battleship raids on Xans get messy when Dragons fire on Peacekeepers - you effectively need to stun the battleships and then kill them which is terribly inefficient. Cath Roaches tend to stun a whole shedload of Bombers before the bombers can finally overwhelm them and get in shots (which are comparatively weak compared to other xan killing ability) - many a time Corsairs have been the last line of defence and have provided the straw that breaks the llama's back.
It's like this on purpose. A lot of it is to do with BS-horny Terrans having a big jump on Xan in getting Hulls 3.

Quote:
Whilst i'm not too sure about the power upgrades etc that you are suggesting (that would require me doing some calcs ) - what you would effectively be doing is adding another fighter that targets FI - along with Sents and Harpies. If you were to do this, then Sentinels would again regin supreme as an attacking ship - the only thing xans would need to build would be Sents & Daggers and hope that there wont be much in-gal Pegs or Tarants (pulsars may discourage Pegs as well). As it stands, xans need to build Vsh, Sents AND Daggers for an effective FI combo - the more distributed the building is the better i think.
I had a discussion with MAd about them and he convinced me that it was probably a wrong thing to do. I think I'm getting close to 'knowing' how it all should be designed, but I really hate the combat engine too much to want to think about it for more than a few minutes at a time.

Quote:
I dont know about you, but Arrowheads are the only ship that i have that is guarenteed never to be home. my 5k are always out somewhere defending against Zik FR fleets (of which there seem to be a near infinite number). I dont really see how they could be MORE important, but if they are then i worry as already alot of my cash goes into them .
Xan CO are being predictably crux.

Quote:
More roaches further exacerbates the helplessness of Xans.
Yeah, it would. But that's partly down to the shitness of the Fisher Price Combat Engine.


Quote:
Tbh, what i would be looking at is the uselessness of Terran DE fleets - i only ever see about one DE attack a night (and i'm a DC) and it almost always gets covered just from the random DE ships that everyone has (provided there are fleets ofc :\).
You see few DE fleets because there are so few of them around. I'd hazard a guess that about 80% of the few paid Terrans have gone for BS.
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Unread 24 Apr 2005, 05:56   #39
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Re: R13 Race Balance

well I think ship states are balanced...

only XP is a bitch... with that to many attacks... and attack get paid even with high loses... which is ****ing gd for zik.... so push down XP or cancel it totaly...
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Unread 24 Apr 2005, 07:44   #40
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Re: R13 Race Balance

First : Pods are too effective, which in turn is the death of cath everywhere. There is no way for a cath to effectively defend himself against pretty much anyone unless they are less than half their size. The other races at least have the benefit of being able to kill some ships and make the roids bloody, but cath dont have that luxury. With the pods being so effective, defense is eaten up quite easily this round, which means you are often left with no defense which leaves all the cath out to dry.

Second : Zik stealing should not have been implemented the way it has been imo. I think that zik ships should fire before pods, but that they should lose ships to stealing like they have in the past. This keeps ziks stealing ability from being too massively overpowering. As was said before, ziks can land attacks with losses that no other race would dare land simply because they can soften the losses by stealing defending ships. And now that we are getting further into the round, many ziks have plenty of ships that they have stolen that negates the weakness of the bad initiative of thier zik ships.



Another thing people are neglecting with the new stats is that it has totally changed the style of play to the game. This round is very much about XP, roids are nigh impossible to hang onto as most have found out. I am sure most people here dont care too much about losing roids because you realize that is part of the game, and you have a good AG for you to go out and steal some right back. The unfortunate side effect of these new stats is that it has made the game even more unfriendly to newer and/or more casual players. I have seen many people in my gal get discouraged and quit due to the difficulty of defending and hanging onto roids. It can be quite frustrating to the average player to be capturing roids every night yet never be able to get about 400 roids.

IMO roiding was fine in previous rounds, I mean people never had a problem maxing out their roids. I think that this round roiding has been made too strong, which may not be a bad thing to most people, but it has certainly changed the game very dramatically.



PS : Round10 had the most balanced stats of any round of pa, period end of discussion. Anyone who thinks the round10 stats were not the most balanced is a moron (I mean come on every single race was pretty much exactly the same lol)
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Unread 25 Apr 2005, 10:58   #41
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Also, is it my impression, or does also every cath get comparatively massive waves when his galaxy gets hit, and the cath planet has a _decent_ amount of roids?
Since it doesn't take much to outflak a cathaar, they are now (more than before) the best target for everybody else. In former round robin targetting rounds, it was impossible for one race to roid let's say their "nemesis" race. Now everybody can roid a cathaar.
Actually, a caths weakness of not being able to kill properly was balanced by their great efficiency at stopping attackers. Now every single attacker gets through on a cath.
It frustrates me, and i think it frustrates every other active player that went cath. The only way to get high ranks for an emp is by XP, since keeping the roids you get is impossible. PA used to be a game where your fleet mattered more than anything, and now you see people with 200 roids and almost only roiding pods and flak at the top of the rankings. XP was a nice idea, but NEVER meant to be THE most important factor in PA. At least the way i see it.
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Unread 25 Apr 2005, 12:03   #42
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Also, is it my impression, or does also every cath get comparatively massive waves when his galaxy gets hit, and the cath planet has a _decent_ amount of roids?
Since it doesn't take much to outflak a cathaar, they are now (more than before) the best target for everybody else. In former round robin targetting rounds, it was impossible for one race to roid let's say their "nemesis" race. Now everybody can roid a cathaar.
Actually, a caths weakness of not being able to kill properly was balanced by their great efficiency at stopping attackers. Now every single attacker gets through on a cath.
It frustrates me, and i think it frustrates every other active player that went cath. The only way to get high ranks for an emp is by XP, since keeping the roids you get is impossible. PA used to be a game where your fleet mattered more than anything, and now you see people with 200 roids and almost only roiding pods and flak at the top of the rankings. XP was a nice idea, but NEVER meant to be THE most important factor in PA. At least the way i see it.
It's true. I get plenty of incs even though I have less than 200 roids most of the time. But then, I was kinda expecting this anyway. Doesn't really stop me complaining, but then I'd find something to moan about anyway
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Unread 25 Apr 2005, 17:04   #43
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Xp isn't the most important thing.
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Unread 25 Apr 2005, 17:57   #44
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helix
First : Pods are too effective, which in turn is the death of cath everywhere. There is no way for a cath to effectively defend himself against pretty much anyone unless they are less than half their size. The other races at least have the benefit of being able to kill some ships and make the roids bloody, but cath dont have that luxury.
True, I see that problem, however they are good def ships that can aid stealing/deffing. That's also why I picked tarants instead of beetles, i havent got any xan incomming apart from at tick72. I am ruing my choice of race, due to pod fleets, i need to build kill ships, and cath have horrible kill ships which is why i wont build spiders, and i wont build guardians because roach fit into my roiding fleet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helix
Second : Zik stealing should not have been implemented the way it has been imo. I think that zik ships should fire before pods, but that they should lose ships to stealing like they have in the past. This keeps ziks stealing ability from being too massively overpowering. As was said before, ziks can land attacks with losses that no other race would dare land simply because they can soften the losses by stealing defending ships. And now that we are getting further into the round, many ziks have plenty of ships that they have stolen that negates the weakness of the bad initiative of thier zik ships.
How does giving the zik's the ability to steal pods before they fire reduce their effectiveness? It just means that you can no longer hit ziks and lose your fleet but gain some roids.
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Unread 25 Apr 2005, 18:44   #45
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Re: R13 Race Balance

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Originally Posted by hellsmurf
well I think ship states are balanced...

only XP is a bitch... with that to many attacks... and attack get paid even with high loses... which is ****ing gd for zik.... so push down XP or cancel it totaly...
I think there is nothing wrong with xp anymore
I think it should be slightly lowered, but with this round i think with ziks all racing into the top 100 with value through the roof, I think the only chance other ppl have is with a mix of roids and xp were upon zik just nick ships as well as roids gaining from defence and attacks which sends there score and value flying thorugh the roof aswell as sending somoene elses crashing with stealing there ships and not leaving any resource behind to help, its a worse feeling than a behemoth landing on you when you lose your fleet for nothing.

As ppl have said and will always say as long as your ships are ok (no matter what race) then who cares about the roids when you can steal them back again from somewere else.
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Unread 25 Apr 2005, 18:51   #46
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_
Xp isn't the most important thing.
It is this round tbh.
Could be a cat's only chance of being number 1.
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Unread 25 Apr 2005, 20:44   #47
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Yes, because the most important thing in planetarion is individual planet ranks.
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Unread 26 Apr 2005, 03:50   #48
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Since it doesn't take much to outflak a cathaar, they are now (more than before) the best target for everybody else. In former round robin targetting rounds, it was impossible for one race to roid let's say their "nemesis" race. Now everybody can roid a cathaar.
Caths have always been the favoured target for every race - ever since R6. I know, as i play cath half the time (and xan half the time - gotta love init ). Furthermore, ALL races can roid ALL other races - no-one is safe from incoming. Presently, i have 200 Terran battleships on my planet from someone who is a tad smaller than i am and i cant do bugger all about it - except wait for the ticks to go down and attack him back (if this is you, i suggest recalling btw ).

Cath arent alone in the fact that they get massive incomings that they cant stop. Further, i find attacking caths more expensive with my FI fleet than attacking ziks (my current attack i will loose 400 FI for 120 roids - not too much XP though cos same value target :\ ).
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Unread 26 Apr 2005, 09:30   #49
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_
Yes, because the most important thing in planetarion is individual planet ranks.
What is the most important thing then? xp not only boosts your own rank but helps your galaxy and alliance too. What is the problem?
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Unread 26 Apr 2005, 09:35   #50
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Re: R13 Race Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Caths have always been the favoured target for every race - ever since R6. I know, as i play cath half the time (and xan half the time - gotta love init ). Furthermore, ALL races can roid ALL other races - no-one is safe from incoming. Presently, i have 200 Terran battleships on my planet from someone who is a tad smaller than i am and i cant do bugger all about it - except wait for the ticks to go down and attack him back (if this is you, i suggest recalling btw ).

Cath arent alone in the fact that they get massive incomings that they cant stop. Further, i find attacking caths more expensive with my FI fleet than attacking ziks (my current attack i will loose 400 FI for 120 roids - not too much XP though cos same value target :\ ).
As Cathaar I've never found it possible to attack Terrans. How do you manage this? You are right about Cathaar always being favoured targets, I too have been Cath since round 6; but this round is something else...
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