Second thing FAnG are famous for

[Zh|l]

Getting threads closed that dont portray FAnG as god's gift to PA.

In addition, Abe openly lied in that FAnG recruitment thread- I believe he was kicked from Fury (or Wrath) at some point for being an idiot.

Now before FAnG scurry along to get this thread closed, I congratulate Forest on reporting a fellow member. The problem in my view is that this seems to happen far too often within FAnG, I suggest you don't recruit people with past cheating history or try and investigate abit more before recruitment.

But, it's your alliance and your reputation. I won't say this has tarnished it, because it might just edge into an improvement due to Forest being the reporter. However I do wonder if your HC are suspectable to such scrutiny also

[The_Fish]

I couldnt have put it better myself

(maybe because I'm an illiterate retard?

[lokken]

Zhil argues his corner not gets the mods to help him amirite?

[G.K Zhukov]

With the attitude to cheating Forest seems to have, why did he join FAnG??

(since the section deletions of reborn were as long back as r3, Im forgetting them for now )

[JonnyBGood]

Speaking as an ex-moderator of AD I always used to dread threads that portrayed FAnG badly. It was like a red rag to a bull and on they'd come charging with their bizzare and inane arguments involving how badly treated they were. Mostly I'd just close the threads to avoid the hassle of explaining the idea of equal treatment of all alliances.

[TehVader]

You're a weak man Jonny

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Speabizzare and inane arguments involving

Personally I love the logic:
Fang member: "No fang member has cheated"
Bystander: "What about xxx? He was closed"
Fang member: "Yes but he was kicked from fang, therefore no fang member has cheated"

[G.K Zhukov]

xtothez, so what? Remeber we are talking about FAnG here.

Im sure you remember when some of their HC/Officer/members got closed in r8, and they just denied it, claiming meddy to be "hax0red"...
Things go forward

[xtothez]

There was a brilliantly amusing channel log on Ouzo-IRC in r9.5, where Meddy+co where trying to figure out a) how their logins were given to PA crew and b) what excuses they could use to get reopened (yes, that included hacking). I would have laughed if it wasn't so sad.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by xtothez

There was a brilliantly amusing channel log on Ouzo-IRC in r9.5, where Meddy+co where trying to figure out a) how their logins were given to PA crew and b) what excuses they could use to get reopened (yes, that included hacking). I would have laughed if it wasn't so sad.

as amuzing as the log about you having a pm chat with alch where you basicly admitted to things and in which you later asked him to keep the pm confidential?

I'm not gonna react on threads like this. Whatever we seem to do, we get comments and flames and shit like that. We reported a cheater (fang player). If we didn't, we would have been flamed at. Now we did, and look, we're being flamed at nonetheless ...

It's sad that this screwed AD for the pple that actually wanna discuss something, and not only flame and insult.

[The_Fish]

heh. I see no flaming.

The point is, you house the cheaters to start with. You house more cheaters than any other alliance. The caught cheaters, at least.

Irvine and Touri do nothing to help your cause, among others.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

heh. I see no flaming.

The point is, you house the cheaters to start with. You house more cheaters than any other alliance. The caught cheaters, at least.

Irvine and Touri do nothing to help your cause, among others.

I meant the previous thread, the one that got closed and which Zhil claims WE asked for it to get closed, which tbh is his illusion, not the truth.

My point is, we get flamed and receive critics nonetheless what happens. Whether we report him or not, either way we'll get criticized. And this seems to be a tendency in basicly everything we do lately.

also if you throw in troll one liners from xto, zhukov or Jackal ... then how do you honnestly expect us (FAnG) to react decently?

rgds Kj

[G.K Zhukov]

Dont whine Kj, couse we havent told 10% of the stories were fang are involved in cheating.

[The_Fish]

The damage is already done by the time you have chance to react. Every round, big FAnG planets are closed for cheating, and now people think when more than if. It's quite sad in a way. You have done the right thing in reporting him, but the damage has been done with him being in FAnG to start with.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Dont whine Kj, couse we havent told 10% of the stories were fang are involved in cheating.

---

also if you throw in troll one liners from xto, zhukov or Jackal ... then how do you honnestly expect us (FAnG) to react decently?

---

[xtothez]

Post my last 'troll one liner' please.

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by xtothez

Post my last 'troll one liner' please.

FS, trolling is wrong. Typical Ely.

[Heartless]

can someone start with real bad publicity for us please? The "evil blocking cheaters" gets boring.

When will the first FAnG member be caught in an amok-run-at-school shocker or similar rather interesting new things?

[JammyJim]

i closed it because it was crap not because it was anti-fang.

i really dont care whos winning and whos losing in the game..

Noone asked me to close it?

[Banned]

Originally Posted by JammyJim

i closed it because it was crap not because it was anti-fang.

i really dont care whos winning and whos losing in the game..

Noone asked me to close it?

Since when is modding about quality control?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

But, it's your alliance and your reputation. I won't say this has tarnished it, because it might just edge into an improvement due to Forest being the reporter. However I do wonder if your HC are suspectable to such scrutiny also

You are right, and HC should be held accountable.
Im coming to that

Oh and for the record, all alliances ahve cheats, its just im in a better position to catch these cheats in FAnG.

[General Martok]

I still think all prooved cheaters should be published on a list containing everyone who got deleted the last 5 rounds and for what reason, so the alliance who are so-called anti-cheating can deny ppl and REALLY say they condone cheating. As long as they have people in their alliance who are on that list they should stfu. Maybe the inability to get an alliance helps to stop cheating.

I know it's an old idea but I've never seen a convincing reason not to do it.

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by General Martok

I still think all prooved cheaters should be published on a list containing everyone who got deleted the last 5 rounds and for what reason, so the alliance who are so-called anti-cheating can deny ppl and REALLY say they condone cheating. As long as they have people in their alliance who are on that list they should stfu. Maybe the inability to get an alliance helps to stop cheating.

I know it's an old idea but I've never seen a convincing reason not to do it.

Each round should be a new start for everyone. If smeone cheats and get there account deleted then that is punishment. You cannot start legislating who should play and who shouldnt.

OK so we had a member that cheated. every alliance does. So we have had at least 1 a round? I would prefer that then try and dictate who can or cannot play pa for past misdemeanors.

If they did that I would have been banned years ago and so would a whole host of you ppl. Get a grip.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Each round should be a new start for everyone. If smeone cheats and get there account deleted then that is punishment. You cannot start legislating who should play and who shouldnt.

Hear hear. Next round my alliance member is going to be Killmark. I'm sure no one objects.

[Desse]

Originally Posted by Banned

Hear hear. Next round my alliance member is going to be Killmark. I'm sure no one objects.

Perhaps FAnG has already recruited him ?

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

Getting threads closed that dont portray FAnG as god's gift to PA.

In addition, Abe openly lied in that FAnG recruitment thread- I believe he was kicked from Fury (or Wrath) at some point for being an idiot.

Thought he was in Fury round 8. Could be wrong though.

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Each round should be a new start for everyone.

You need to learn the difference between idealism and reality. Regardless of what should happen, or what people should think, the fact remains that people with a history of organised cheating are statistically more likely to continue to do so. Obvious example being the old Gosu/OuZo players, closed in several rounds, and still signing up multiple planets and login sharing in r9.5.
We aren't talking about permantly shunning everyone who's ever logged into a planet they didn't own. We're just asking certain people with influence (mainly alliance HCs) to shun people who have proven track records and show no remorse nor signs of changing their ways.

But of course you know all that, you're just exaggerating to try and make your side sound a little less guilty. Just be honest and say your main motivation for continually recruiting these people is to put Fang on top, not some bullshit about being the only people fair enough to give them another chance because Fang is such a wonderful utopia of equality and fairness.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by xtothez

You need to learn the difference between idealism and reality. Regardless of what should happen, or what people should think, the fact remains that people with a history of organised cheating are statistically more likely to continue to do so. Obvious example being the old Gosu/OuZo players, closed in several rounds, and still signing up multiple planets and login sharing in r9.5.
We aren't talking about permantly shunning everyone who's ever logged into a planet they didn't own. We're just asking certain people with influence (mainly alliance HCs) to shun people who have proven track records and show no remorse nor signs of changing their ways.

But of course you know all that, you're just exaggerating to try and make your side sound a little less guilty. Just be honest and say your main motivation for continually recruiting these people is to put Fang on top, not some bullshit about being the only people fair enough to give them another chance because Fang is such a wonderful utopia of equality and fairness.

so now we intentionally recruit cheats, to make sure we're on top ...

I know this is a REAL HARD THING for you to understand, but fang doesn't recruit cheaters. We are not looking for them nor are we supporting or allowing them to do so. Sure some of our players were old cheaters. But you're known as a hacker, still it doesn't stop ely from keeping you, now does it.

Also, Ely had cheaters and bug abusers aswell in the past, and I'm 100% sure you now succeeded to fully make your alliance cheat free ...

and then you call Rumad idealistic instead of realist?

but then again, you don't care about cheaters, or about the game or about whether it's ethical or not to cheat etc. You're only posting on AD to provoke and to flame.

FAnG didn't make a thread about reporting Abe. We did what we had to do, and still we see pple starting threads just cause they felt it was needed to point, blame and provoke ...

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by xtothez

Post my last 'troll one liner' please.

COUNTDOWN TO KJEL'S ARRIVAL IN THREAD
00:04:28....

--> there is your last troll one liner, made yesterday

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by xtothez

You need to learn the difference between idealism and reality. Regardless of what should happen, or what people should think, the fact remains that people with a history of organised cheating are statistically more likely to continue to do so. Obvious example being the old Gosu/OuZo players, closed in several rounds, and still signing up multiple planets and login sharing in r9.5.
We aren't talking about permantly shunning everyone who's ever logged into a planet they didn't own. We're just asking certain people with influence (mainly alliance HCs) to shun people who have proven track records and show no remorse nor signs of changing their ways.

But of course you know all that, you're just exaggerating to try and make your side sound a little less guilty. Just be honest and say your main motivation for continually recruiting these people is to put Fang on top, not some bullshit about being the only people fair enough to give them another chance because Fang is such a wonderful utopia of equality and fairness.

I dn't see myself as an idealist or a realist - more of a pragmatist.

Simply the people that post here probably hvae at one time broken the rules. Some have even probably been deleted for such abuse of the game rules. Yes we recruited a player who may or may have not been deleted in the past. we look for players who are active and to a certain extent we work on trust. Our trust is repaid or in this case abused. Either way to stop running your alliance like that would be no worse than becoming a paranoid witch hunters. i have much more valuable things to do with my time like sex and drinking and having a laugh outside pa.

Someone cheated, account is closed, member kicked etc. Get over it and move on.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

COUNTDOWN TO KJEL'S ARRIVAL IN THREAD
00:04:28....

--> there is your last troll one liner, made yesterday

Thats a two liner you idiot.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

so now we intentionally recruit cheats, to make sure we're on top ...

I know this is a REAL HARD THING for you to understand, but fang doesn't recruit cheaters. We are not looking for them nor are we supporting or allowing them to do so. Sure some of our players were old cheaters. But you're known as a hacker, still it doesn't stop ely from keeping you, now does it.
rgds Kj

This is the worst crap Ive heard in some time in this place.

1) FAnG recruited a BG pre-pax, witch consisted of ex-ldk members.
You might not have noticed, but ldk isnt famous for playing without cheating.
2) You and other FAnG command members have now several times claimed XtotheZ hacked FAnG irc and so on. If you cant prove this, I suggest you stfu, so you dont embaress yourself and your alliance further.

[JammyJim]

if you cant discuss this in a civlilised manner then this thread will be closed.
read the forum rules as to whats acceptable if your not quite sure what im talking about.


JJ

[Oghy]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

heh. I see no flaming.

The point is, you house the cheaters to start with. You house more cheaters than any other alliance. The caught cheaters, at least.

Irvine and Touri do nothing to help your cause, among others.

Ahhh, I get you... You're basicly saying that FAnG actually reports their own players if they cheat, unlike any other alliance who simply let them cheat. Hence it seems they 'house the caught cheaters'.

I fully agree with you there

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

COUNTDOWN TO KJEL'S ARRIVAL IN THREAD
00:04:28....
--> there is your last troll one liner, made yesterday

Weathermen aren't trolling when they give warning about the arrival of a hurricane, lightning storm, or other natural disaster to a city.
So why I am trolling when I warn of your imminent arrival in a thread?

[Razorback]

just on a sidenote i remember the "hacking" accusations, mostly coming from the days Fang irc servers were more often down then up, admittingly through crap coding.

Regardless of this rumormongering fang cant wash its hands clean, recruiting ppl who cheated in the past, even were closed during their time beeing in fang and having dodgy evidences against them doesnt make you look innocent.
Noone exspects you to be holier then thou and to be free of any cheats, but atleast dont make a claim "we try hard or are fair to known cheaters" when evidence shows you give a damn about cheaters in fang or if you recruit them for fang.

It might hurt your own perception of Fang if ppl point out you have quiet a trackrecord of cheating in Fang which covered 1 scandal after another round after round. Apart from maybe LDK i would question any other alliance could get on your level. This also includes how you handled these incidents in the public, rather then trying to improve or to get rid of the scum you pushed your "proud to be fang" bandwagon to prove they were innocent and all was a conspiracy.
Now if we both look back after 2 years of gaming experience, with changing hunters, changing blocks, changing players and even creators, how likely is such a conspiracy over and over again ?

I for one state that in my estimation fang is the alliance with the most closed hc planets in all rounds.
Anyone wanna challenge me on this statement ?

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Razorback

just on a sidenote i remember the "hacking" accusations, mostly coming from the days Fang irc servers were more often down then up, admittingly through crap coding.

Regardless of this rumormongering fang cant wash its hands clean, recruiting ppl who cheated in the past, even were closed during their time beeing in fang and having dodgy evidences against them doesnt make you look innocent.
Noone exspects you to be holier then thou and to be free of any cheats, but atleast dont make a claim "we try hard or are fair to known cheaters" when evidence shows you give a damn about cheaters in fang or if you recruit them for fang.

It might hurt your own perception of Fang if ppl point out you have quiet a trackrecord of cheating in Fang which covered 1 scandal after another round after round. Apart from maybe LDK i would question any other alliance could get on your level. This also includes how you handled these incidents in the public, rather then trying to improve or to get rid of the scum you pushed your "proud to be fang" bandwagon to prove they were innocent and all was a conspiracy.
Now if we both look back after 2 years of gaming experience, with changing hunters, changing blocks, changing players and even creators, how likely is such a conspiracy over and over again ?

I for one state that in my estimation fang is the alliance with the most closed hc planets in all rounds.
Anyone wanna challenge me on this statement ?

we are aware of our cheating track record. Thanks though for again pointing that out for us. Do we feel ashamed cause of those cheating scandals? yes. Do we wanna improve it? yes. Is it working? very very slowly.

I'm not concerned with your particular opinion on this. I know that Eclipse had cheaters aswell last round, clever enough not to get caught. Pple are naïve believing their alliance is cheat-free. Nonetheless it seems FAnG somehow has a higher concentration of such, something I will not deny.

Nonetheles, claiming that we intentionally recruit cheats (which some pple pointed towards) is a complete joke. Why would fang intentionally recruit cheats, to then see them getting closed and getting tons of critics and trolls on our backs on AD? Nway, if pple actually think such, then that's their loss, not mine.

What you can question though, are our methodes. I'm sure we have our own way of dealing with cheaters, which might seem very odd to most pple. I don't expect you to understand it, you're not fang nor ever will be so we can both agree we both don't care whether you agree to our methodes or not. What I do wanna state is that we dislike cheaters aswmuch as everyone else does. Believe my word on it or not, again I'm not concerned with that either.

A last minor note. FAnG (aka Forest) reported Abe. We did not make a thread to see "hey look at use, we're cool cause we report cheaters". We didn't even wanna discuss this or anything. Infact we don't even make a big fuzz about it.

But whatever keeps the avg AD reader happy I guess

rgds Kj

[BoredOfThis]

Kjel FAnG attracts cheaters as u have no anti-cheating measures

[Mad Matte]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Someone cheated, account is closed, member kicked etc. Get over it and move on.

That is where the problem lie, atleast in my opinion. Why kick a player if the same player is welcomed back next round? (Or even given a high position within the alliance).

(The above is a problem in most alliances, but I do wonder why FaNG does it).

[Ace]

Originally Posted by Mad Matte

That is where the problem lie, atleast in my opinion. Why kick a player if the same player is welcomed back next round? (Or even given a high position within the alliance).

(The above is a problem in most alliances, but I do wonder why FaNG does it).

Its not a problem in []LCH[] cos cheating players are not welcome in the first place and if they get deleted for cheating (or its found out by us and reported) they will be kicked and not be accepted again.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Ace

Its not a problem in []LCH[] cos cheating players are not welcome in the first place and if they get deleted for cheating (or its found out by us and reported) they will be kicked and not be accepted again.

bad argument, if u know soeoe is cheating, it doesnt matter if they can talk there way out of it, or if they get closed.

they are cheats, and should be kicked regardless.

Or maybe pa alliances are worried about going thur what i go thru?

[The_Fish]

Forest, what the LCH guy said is that he wouldnt accept members like Touri or Irvine. Which you did.

[Bu||seye]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

What you can question though, are our methodes. I'm sure we have our own way of dealing with cheaters, which might seem very odd to most pple.

Indeed, odd is the right word. I have no idea how your "own way of dealing with cheaters" looks like, but I do know what would be the ideal way to show them that cheating is wrong and condemned by your (or any other) alliance: Kick them out of the alliance, roid them dry as an example to any other cheater that might hide in your (or any other) alliance, while at the same time reporting them to the hunters.
And quite frankly, I don't see what could be so hard about that.
Cheating is wrong and deserves to be punished; not only by the hunters (by eventual closure), but even more importantly by the community.

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

I don't expect you to understand it, you're not fang nor ever will be so we can both agree we both don't care whether you agree to our methodes or not.

That's utter elitist propaganda bullsh!t. Most people here have been playing the game for more than enough rounds (or years, actually) to understand pretty much any position taken by alliances in this game. Saying something like you did there is like a belittling slap in the face for most non-FAnG AD readers and doesn't help your image at all.

[Fyodor]

It seems like the only people to have caught a fang cheater this round is Fang. Ive seen numerous posts about touris multi planets etc etc. Yet he is still open. If he is cheating then catch him. Im sure many of you have tried but to no avail. So that means he is very good at hiding his cheating, or hes not doing it. So until one of you catches a fang member cheating, you really havent a leg to stand on. The past? Is the past. Fang has been hurt more than most alliances due to cheaters within its rank. Do we still have cheaters withing our ranks? Probably. Do we actively scan suspicious planets. Yes we do. We have 3 people who actively try and find members who are cheating, So what does it all mean? Nothing. Fang doesnt have a post on our website that says "if you cheat we want you" You all keep alluding to touri and irvine. Show me or anyone on NG that they are cheating. If you cant, then you look like a bunch of whiners who are bashing the #1 aliance(at the moment)

Originally Posted by Bu||seye

Saying something like you did there is like a belittling slap in the face for most non-FAnG AD readers and doesn't help your image at all.

Im not really sure what KJ is referring to when stating "our methods"

but in regards to a slap in the face to AD reader. Many of them need a slap in the face. Ive been around PA for a while and these last 2 rounds ive been in the know about a few things. Then I come to the boards and see one person or another plain lying about situations. If they arent out and out lying, they are bending the truth in order to create propaganda. I do have respect for what some of the posters have to say. But all to many are to busy lying or flaming to say something of importance.

[Bu||seye]

Originally Posted by Fyodor

I do have respect for what some of the posters have to say. But all to many are to busy lying or flaming to say something of importance.

Still, it doesn't help to give such remarks as Kjeldoran did up there while at the same time calling other people trolls and flamers.
Even if they are trolls and flamers, just ignoring them and their rubbish helps a lot more than replying to them or replying in a similar fashion.
But I'm being utopian again.

(Damn those jump-intensive courier missions, they make me read PA boards again )

[Fyodor]

Originally Posted by Bu||seye

Still, it doesn't help to give such remarks as Kjeldoran did up there while at the same time calling other people trolls and flamers.
Even if they are trolls and flamers, just ignoring them and their rubbish helps a lot more than replying to them or replying in a similar fashion.
But I'm being utopian again.

Do a search on the nick Kjeldoran and give a look to his other numerous posts. I think itll give you a better picture of what you are dealing with.

[hook]

Originally Posted by Forest

bad argument, if u know soeoe is cheating, it doesnt matter if they can talk there way out of it, or if they get closed.

they are cheats, and should be kicked regardless.

Or maybe pa alliances are worried about going thur what i go thru?

I don't see how your reply makes it a 'bad argument' in the slightest bit. He quite clearly stated LCH Won't accept people who they find cheating, or get closed, or are known for cheating in the past.

Quite a fair stance if you ask me.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Each round should be a new start for everyone. If smeone cheats and get there account deleted then that is punishment. You cannot start legislating who should play and who shouldnt.

OK so we had a member that cheated. every alliance does. So we have had at least 1 a round? I would prefer that then try and dictate who can or cannot play pa for past misdemeanors.

If they did that I would have been banned years ago and so would a whole host of you ppl. Get a grip.

other games give out life time bans.....

surly it depends in what way they cheated and fro what reason

[Forest]

ok so i didnt read the post properly, and i tyake back what i said

My point still stands though, that certain hc in certain alliances feel if they know someone is cheating but he gets reopened, thats he ok to stay a member.

Its not.

Mind u, whats the point of it al, i am getting hacked/dossed/virus' sent by 3 ppl i ahve acted on non-stop.

One of there HC have told me 3 times they will 'talk to him' but nothing changes.
So alliances do ahve to accept responsibility

[Hicks]

If my memory serves me correctly Abe was kicked from Fury for spying ? Not 100% sure though, I've always found him a good guy to be honest probably having to hang around with morons like Kje drove him to cheat so he could get deleted and not have to speak to him anymore.