r30 ship stats

[isildurx]

Those are the latest set of stats, dont know if\how much they will be changed in the next week tho.

[Hude]

Originally Posted by Thatcher

oh wow, xan fi/co doesnt look soo good, infact will require some skill to play.

ty

LOLING. HARD.

[SUFC]

There was mention bout Lancer and WF upgrades. What were those changes?

[Thatcher]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

Just ran through most of the thread and came to some simple conclusions:

Thatcher/KB is highly prejudiced and doesn't like ASC, this seems to infect his thought process

seriously i dont know where you are coming from with this, lokken said something similar, please point out any anti asc quotes i have made and then make a new thread and keep this one for r30 ship stats.

when challenged in pm lokken said my anti asc views were 'implied' (in otherwords he read into my posts some asc hostilty that doesnt exist), i think your going to have to say the same. so stfu, i dont think these stats are some asc conspiracy, i dont particularly care jbg is doing stats, all i care about is a balanced set of stats.

glad to see others than me seem to like the idea of the new phant init, wld like to say changing war frig init instead of phant init wldnt change anything as war frig cant defend in universe. up until last night jbg was weakening both dc/ac of xan fi/co and beefing up harpy in response to complaint over xan overpowering, i think now alot of this will be reversed in beta.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by SUFC

There was mention bout Lancer and WF upgrades. What were those changes?

I think I changed those back (they were just efficiency upgrades) after I moved down the harpy's init.

[Murador]

Originally Posted by Thatcher

changing war frig init instead of phant init wldnt change anything as war frig cant defend in universe.

this is exactly why frigs should have the init lowed instead of harpies. this mean, only gal def. Firing at the same time, or before xans is an exception, not a rule, in order to be a balanced race, xan should be able to make good attacks against some races. The only good attack option for xan was its FIs, now, its none. Attacking cath and etd with FIs is very difficlt, xan vs xan, not good, and now, xan cant attack ter too (mainly) coz any harpies fleet will, or keep xans away, or make them recall, now xan can only attack zik (maybe) and it has a good ship that is the interceptor. Xan is nerfed, isnt playable. This last change was ridiculous, and I know it isnt JBG fault. The result u can see in beta. xans dont attack anyone alone. Its FR fleet turned to be the best option, still not a good option. Getting back phants init to 4, and high the arm of harpies to 9 should be the correct thing to do. Leting this 'hole' agains CR is also needed.

[Zeyi]

Originally Posted by Murador

Leting this 'hole' agains CR is also needed.

If you make those other changes, this would just make them too good.

I think the stats as they are, are fairly balanced. Xan still has the advantage of low ETAs and cloaked ships and teaming up they are still a powerful force.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by Zeyi

If you make those other changes, this would just make them too good.

I think the stats as they are, are fairly balanced. Xan still has the advantage of low ETAs and cloaked ships and teaming up they are still a powerful force.

xan's have no advantage which outweighs or balances their inate suckyness.

[Thatcher]

Originally Posted by Knight Theamion

xan's have no advantage which outweighs or balances their inate suckyness.

what utter rot

clearly you have no idea how to play xan then.

[Cochese]

Fi fleet is still decent enough, especially once you have enough Phantoms to force a target to run. I'm doing fair enough by whoring Phantoms/Pulsars/Bombers, and relying on Ziks/Etd to cover cr/bs incoming.

[[JungleMuffin]]

Originally Posted by Cochese

Fi fleet is still decent enough, especially once you have enough Phantoms to force a target to run. I'm doing fair enough by whoring Phantoms/Pulsars/Bombers, and relying on Ziks/Etd to cover cr/bs incoming.

Forcing a target to run is a bit of a gamble. Some people refuse to run based on the principle of "dont launch it if u cant land it," then uve got other factors like thinking its a fake, being afk, not caring, wanting to twat a top 3 planet ( ) etc D:

If ur launching attacks on the premise that ur tagget will run, sooner or later someone will call ur bluff.

[Cochese]

Not really "forcing" them to run, just expecting that people playing for value don't like losing fleet, and so will probably run rather than have their fi/co/fr obliterated.

Sure, I'll lose ships too...but they'll lose a hell of a lot more, as well as losing roids.

[Murador]

how would they loose a hell lot more if the harpy (we were till now talking about them) fires at the same time as phant, has the same damage, but much more arm than phant ? AND the defender has the salvage, that is 20% higher ? anyway, I'm not playing xan, if u think that nerfing a race is balancing it... I cant do anything, but xan is no good.

[ArcChas]

Originally Posted by Zeyi

Xan still has the advantage of low ETAs and cloaked ships and teaming up they are still a powerful force.

I'm not sure we should be forcing players to team up - especially if we're trying to encourage the "casual" player. Teaming up is more for the alliance players.

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by Murador

how would they loose a hell lot more if the harpy (we were till now talking about them) fires at the same time as phant, has the same damage, but much more arm than phant ? AND the defender has the salvage, that is 20% higher ? anyway, I'm not playing xan, if u think that nerfing a race is balancing it... I cant do anything, but xan is no good.

Because if you're taking a target alone, odds are you're hitting one just above your bash level...meaning you're sending a ****load more value in Phantoms than he has in Harpies, enough to totally wipe them out.

At which point, he's ****ed out of all his anti-FI/Co ally defships, and asking for more Xan FI incoming which either his Fr or Cr (depending on what route he went) can't do anything against other than try to counter you.

Anyways, the Harpy initiative needs to be raised. This is already causing a big problem, and throwing more Phantoms at it isn't the most ideal solution. It's just messy for everyone involved :/

[Zaejii]

anymore news on stats, or has everyone gone to not caring since the OMAC stuff?

[isildurx]

I think they are going to be final on monday.

Dont know what else is going to be done on them now, although I must confess that in my opinion the harpy should be downgraded.

[Gate]

I'd like to remind people of one thing someone said once:

'Xan are never underpowered'.

It's worth bearing in mind: their fantastic init and cloaking gives them a huge advantage over other races. In the 7 or so rounds I played, and more I observed, I don't remember seeing underpowered xand. (although someone mentioned it did happen once... perhaps when etd were introduced?)

[isildurx]

Yeah I think they were underpowered in r22(?) when etd was first introduced. I cant remember any big xans from that round atleast.

[voodoo]

r17 xan kinda' sucked didn't they?

[Gate]

Originally Posted by voodoo

r17 xan kinda' sucked didn't they?

Xand were not cloaked then.

They also had 3 t10 planets and 30 t100 planets. Hardly suckage material.

[omb]

stat analysis ive done

im by no means an admin or anyone, just got too much time on my hands



ter-
weak
-cat co -extra co can steal fi flaks beets harps t2 on co
-etd bs - cr frozen t2 killed t1

middle ground
-cat de - cr have a chance if extra cr is ingal
-xan fi - fire same init
-cat cr - more cr from alli needed
-etd co- emp altho cath ingal can help harps fire t2 at co

strong
- xan fr - ter cr fire before xan fr
-xan bs - ter cr fire b4 xan fr
-zik fr - ter cr fire b4 zik fr and t1
-etd de - ter cr fire fist t2
-etd fr - doesnt target cr
-zik- ter cr fire first
==========================================
xan
you only play xan if you want to fake atack and fake def a lot

stats are irrellevant for xan

this is the only way they can be played

if you fake a buttload
==========================================
cat-
weak- beets and locust
de:
cat de -no anti de cept vipers- frozen
etd de- vipers help a lot

strong

bs/cr/fr/co/fi
=========================================
zik-
weak-
-ter cr - they fire first ofc
-cat cr - very weak how could that even be fixed?
-xan fi - how the fck can that be fixed?
-xan fr targets zik fi t1


middle ground
-ter fr- low numbers mass cors
-cat fi co - mass fi co helps with em a lot
-cat de- mass fico still hardish


strong:
-ter bs -rogues fire first
-zik bs

good points: rogue, cutlass can flak harpies and beets and defenders minimal loss (cutlass awesome for salvage)

===========================================
etd
weak
-cat cr - altho ter cr helps a lot
-xan fi - xans get frozen but have attack init advantage
-cat co - zik flak helps

middle
-cat de - ghost en mass help a lot free steal pillager
-ter bs emp no kill

strong
-ter de - ghosts hurt it a bit t2 tho
-zik fr -ghosts pwn t2
-zik bs -etd bs pwns it
-xan fr -ghosts pwn
-ter cr - freeze and kill init advantage

take 2

[Baba]

I'll have to agree with most that Xan is very underpowered with these new changes. Murador explained it well. This round will be DOMINATED by Cath / Ter CR combo.

Let me also add that when Xans fake attacks, they are either with another Xan, or solo. At this point Xans can only be successful in attacking when teamed up with CO. This will make their fake attacks MUCH less successful, and most likely cost them value along the way. This could be a huge problem for them.

Plus huge susceptibility to CR and somewhat to CO.

BTW I am not a Xan player.

[isildurx]

Have to say im somewhat surprised that there are so many xans signed up yes.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Baba

I'll have to agree with most that Xan is very underpowered with these new changes. Murador explained it well. This round will be DOMINATED by Cath / Ter CR combo.

I'm not convinced by that.

The cath killships aren't really worth building, so you're gonna have EMP only. And that makes you very weak in defence if you fall behind.

A number of caths will go for CO: and I suspect their CR may well struggle if alliances are sensible with defence. Bombers are cloaked and have 2 ticks to be gathered. Could be a serious problem as always.

[isildurx]

You think xans will build bombers rather than BS as defship?

[[DDK]gm]

xan are not underpowered

[eksero]

Originally Posted by isildurx

You think xans will build bombers rather than BS as defship?

You'd need to build 2 ships instead of just 1 then

[isildurx]

But theyre less shit and theyre also a roidfleet so it gives you more fakeability.

Besides they will also get flacked by zik and ter cr which will be around in big numbers.

[Gate]

Depends on the alliance & race dist I guess.

Assuming it's a choice of bombers or an equal amount of resources spread between PK/spectre, then the bomber is better against ter CR (assuming even syren/titan split), ter BS, etd BS. More easily stunned but does more damage to cath CR. Much worse against xand BS though. The research time difference could be important.



Also, I think the E/R of the cutlass and possibly the harpy is a little high.

[isildurx]

Im gonna post this here aswell.

Dear pa team can you PLEASE reintroduce the cap on Finance centers again?

I BEG THE!

[Zaejii]

Originally Posted by isildurx

Dear pa team can you PLEASE reintroduce the cap on Finance centers again?

more strategies = +++++++++++++++++

[Hude]

Originally Posted by isildurx

Dear pa team can you PLEASE reintroduce the cap on Finance centers again?

seconded

[Hude]

"Also, the 60 finance centre limit has been re-introduced."

Holy crap, I'm too slow