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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 00:35   #1
HaNzI
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Include the playerbase in changes!

im simply suggesting that we run a speedgame with 15 or 30 sec ticks once in a while with the purpose of testing things such as copvops, scanning, production, stats. everything anyone would ever wanna change in the game.
all round and not in beta. when round is over and beta kicks off, things should be done already.

as much as possible should be tested out among the masses is my point.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 00:36   #2
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Involving the playerbase in the testing phase is much too late in my opinion. When you have an idea, share it, before you spend 2 weeks implementing something crap.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:09   #3
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Involving the playerbase in the testing phase is much too late in my opinion. When you have an idea, share it, before you spend 2 weeks implementing something crap.
again you fail to read the post blinded by your need to find something wrong to pick on

i didnt say this round. but for future rounds...
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:53   #4
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

I wasn't talking about this round either. What's your problem anyway, I'm agreeing with you man!
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 23:43   #5
HaNzI
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

then say so and dont waste the keyboard on finding something to pick on
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 23:50   #6
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

I'm getting the feeling you don't like me very much. Why don't you like me?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 00:14   #7
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

I find the title a bit misleading... I would rather have seen "Include the playerbase in more testing" or an equivalent of that.

And I agree.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 09:13   #8
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Why not open up the game during signup week. Give everybody x amount of ships but prevent mining. basically the bare minimum to mess around with everything in the game. Sort of a sandbox?

also passes the time during the week
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 11:35   #9
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

That's beta innit?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 17:40   #10
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

PA-team there is nothing wrong with firing up some server-space for another speedgame solely used for testing

do it now so we can start testing out suggestion immediately. maybe Omac can shoot in some money for coders so they can start working on some suggestions?
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 17:41   #11
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
That's beta innit?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 17:43   #12
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

no thats not beta. beta is short and dont give much time to change anything.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 20:13   #13
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

sounds to me like you just want time to figure out what the best race combos are before the game starts. thats part of the whole strategy thing and what makes the game interesting. if you played the beta, it would probably teach as much as having a speedgame considering that hardly anyone plays either.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 20:36   #14
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Hi guys,

I am listeng to the players, and lots of people are giving good input

Re: speedgames, give me a little time to see what we can do with them

Jamie
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 21:31   #15
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
sounds to me like you just want time to figure out what the best race combos are before the game starts. thats part of the whole strategy thing and what makes the game interesting. if you played the beta, it would probably teach as much as having a speedgame considering that hardly anyone plays either.



im not interested in getting extra time to read stats or changes, i want extra time for the pa-team to discuss changes with the playerbase and implement the good suggestions we agree on, then we test them out together.

im suggesting that the pa-team start picking out some people from the forums and ask them if they are interested in helping them out with discussing and perhaps improving different suggestions on these forums.
it shouldnt be hard finding a bunch! im sure if 10-15 heads get together and think development on every link you find in the game then we will have a very appealing game eventually
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 22:37   #16
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

thats how the beta works. they take applications and sometimes use those players for 3 rounds or so. they test the changes. again, i don't see your point.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 23:04   #17
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

more heads working together over a longer period of time.

i really cant make it any shorter.

examples are galaxy-page, universe-page, missionpage, galstatus etc etc etc

all that needs to be made as easy and functional as possible, and the more heads working together on a longer amount of time the better result.
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Unread 13 Aug 2008, 12:32   #18
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
That's beta innit?
but BETA is limited to who can play and is ran on a different server. Why not let everyone play? everyone plays the real game, isn't that whats supposed to be tested?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
sounds to me like you just want time to figure out what the best race combos are before the game starts. thats part of the whole strategy thing and what makes the game interesting. if you played the beta, it would probably teach as much as having a speedgame considering that hardly anyone plays either.
It shouldnt be kept secret whats good and whats not. If the races are balanced like we are told then whats the problem wiht letting people see what they prefer as opposed to a lucky dip?
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Unread 13 Aug 2008, 13:28   #19
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Given that the community is primarily composed of semi-retarded angst-ridden narrow-minded self-centred conservatives I'm going to say by all means listen to them but for the love of god don't decide anything based on whatever meaningless averages you manage to extract in terms of opinions.
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Unread 13 Aug 2008, 13:41   #20
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

We have had open beta's in the past and they were complete wastes of time due to the fact that people didn't play to test the new features, they played to win.
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Unread 13 Aug 2008, 13:44   #21
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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We have had open beta's in the past and they were complete wastes of time due to the fact that people didn't play to test the new features, they played to win.
and what do we do in the real game, which we're testing for? i can understand the point your making, and, in part, the insults JBG is making but how else do you decide who tests things?

Do you have the same people testing each round? I was a beta tester for a couple of rounds and it seemed to be the same faces i see on the forums having their say. In general it will always be biased, meaning it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, what they say goes.
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Unread 13 Aug 2008, 14:22   #22
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Entropy,
In beta's, we are looking for bugs. Every aspect of the game needs to be tested, not just attacking and stealing ships. Having been burnt severely on open beta's, where people did not bother to test things as asked, we have compiled a list of people to use for closed beta testing. These are people who have proven to us that they will take the beta seriously and do the testing and discuss the results in a constructive manner. The beta testers are changed every 2-3 rounds. Some are invited back and invitations are extended to new people who have expressed interest and who have proven that they would make good beta testers.
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Unread 13 Aug 2008, 14:34   #23
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

fair enough, shed a bit more light on beta testing for me too. ta
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Unread 13 Aug 2008, 14:51   #24
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Betas are used for fine tuning, speedgames should be used to try some ideas 'live'. With every speed game there should be a new idea added. At the end of speedgame you decide if it's worth going to real round or not.
Check the suggestion forum over the last 5 years, I'm sure there are some good things there.
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Unread 13 Aug 2008, 15:34   #25
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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Originally Posted by [DW]Entropy View Post
but BETA is limited to who can play and is ran on a different server. Why not let everyone play? everyone plays the real game, isn't that whats supposed to be tested?
If people are not going out of their way to sign up for the beta, you get a lot of retards playing a "beta" with no real intention of testing anything. See JBG's and Fiery's posts.
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Unread 17 Aug 2008, 08:48   #26
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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sounds to me like you just want time to figure out what the best race combos are before the game starts. thats part of the whole strategy thing and what makes the game interesting. if you played the beta, it would probably teach as much as having a speedgame considering that hardly anyone plays either.
omg.... the point is to have different features than in the curent game... and see if they are fitting to implent in the new round... to get actual chances for the round to get some new strategy involved...

but this suggestion is all about money, to waste on another server and find some coders to play around with changes.

is a valid suggestion tho.
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Unread 17 Aug 2008, 08:56   #27
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
If people are not going out of their way to sign up for the beta, you get a lot of retards playing a "beta" with no real intention of testing anything. See JBG's and Fiery's posts.
let them play: doesnt stop others for trying out features and see if they work or not. disable ranks from beta?

also beta is meaningless if we actually get a test server/game going on...
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Unread 17 Aug 2008, 11:10   #28
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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let them play: doesnt stop others for trying out features and see if they work or not. disable ranks from beta?

also beta is meaningless if we actually get a test server/game going on...
I think that the test server should be closed for public, and beta will be the "release" for public.

make the beta shorter perhaps? we dont need weeks to test something thats already been tested.
It would be fun to focus on something else then beta between the rounds, perhaps just use some energy on running some different speedgames, or even a worldcup to attract new players. This way the new players can try out the game before the game starts

not neccessarily with the new changes...
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Unread 17 Aug 2008, 22:00   #29
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing
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Unread 25 Aug 2008, 15:34   #30
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

HaNzI u really need to stop drinking and bitching also you have contridicted urself many many times in this thread O_o, plz i beg dont make me read anymore of ur pointless threads. thnx
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Unread 25 Aug 2008, 21:07   #31
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

ive made no contridictions. you just fail to see the point

beta is all about testing whatever the pa-team bothered to implement.

what i want is letting the playerbase decide what to work on and test the new implement in a speedgame, if it works out fine then use it, if it turns out shit then dont :|

did noone ask urself where xp and covops came from ? certainly not from the playerbase as far as i can remember.
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Unread 26 Aug 2008, 15:20   #32
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

i don't think that you understand that games aren't developed by the players. if a developer has a vision for a game, they're going to go in that direction no matter what the player base thinks (see star wars galaxies new game enhancement et al). beta testing is for finding bugs and broken things in the game - old features or completely new ones. they aren't there for players to approve or disapprove of an implemented idea.
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Unread 27 Aug 2008, 09:23   #33
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Well tbh, the game makers make the game to attract players, here the players come from existing enviroment, so only way to make the game attractive and gain new blood is to ask players what they want. So they can bring in their friends.

Unless PA opens new marketing to target the game to some other group, which I cant see happening. The only way is to include playerbase to changes.
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Unread 27 Aug 2008, 10:34   #34
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

You're under the illusion that asking what the players want gives you a game people want to play.
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Unread 27 Aug 2008, 12:22   #35
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

It's my opinion, it aint an illusion.
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Unread 27 Aug 2008, 15:47   #36
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
i don't think that you understand that games aren't developed by the players. if a developer has a vision for a game, they're going to go in that direction no matter what the player base thinks (see star wars galaxies new game enhancement et al). beta testing is for finding bugs and broken things in the game - old features or completely new ones. they aren't there for players to approve or disapprove of an implemented idea.
Thats why im suggesting this as they obviously FAILED by doing it the way they wanted to for all these years...
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Unread 27 Aug 2008, 16:35   #37
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

The problem is that there isn't a developer, nor a vision, meaning you can't use the experiences of the last 2 years as proof that Zeajii is wrong, because he's not.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 28 Aug 2008, 20:27   #38
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The problem is that there isn't a developer, nor a vision, meaning you can't use the experiences of the last 2 years as proof that Zeajii is wrong, because he's not.
noone is right or wrong, as this is a SUGGESTION. its interesting how you can claim me to be wrong when this suggestion is about finding a way to improve the game, and has nothing to do with a "final solution" and delegating right and wrongs.

its a fact that whatever they have been doing the last years its been a terrible failure. In this discussion this is the only fact, and i am right in this!! We all know it.

Anything else ive written in this thread is just based on a suggestion, to use a different way to improve the game then the present way of doing things.
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Unread 28 Aug 2008, 21:22   #39
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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its a fact that whatever they have been doing the last years its been a terrible failure. In this discussion this is the only fact, and i am right in this!!
you're still playing it, therefore it can't be as much of a failure as you think it is.
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Unread 28 Aug 2008, 21:38   #40
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

im not playing. im sticking around!
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Unread 28 Aug 2008, 21:48   #41
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
noone is right or wrong
Untrue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
as this is a SUGGESTION.
I wasn't even talking about your suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
its interesting how you can claim me to be wrong
I didn't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
when this suggestion is about finding a way to improve the game
Your good intentions are not in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
"final solution"
Ouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
and delegating right and wrongs.
What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
its a fact that whatever they have been doing the last years its been a terrible failure. In this discussion this is the only fact, and i am right in this!! We all know it.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a terrible failure. Many good things have been done over the last few years (the production system and construction queuing, to name two). The problem is that there's no coherent vision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Anything else ive written in this thread is just based on a suggestion, to use a different way to improve the game then the present way of doing things.
See above.

Did you even read my post?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 28 Aug 2008 at 21:54.
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Unread 28 Aug 2008, 22:01   #42
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

You are just an ass.
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Unread 29 Aug 2008, 00:16   #43
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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You are just an ass.
See, this baffles me. I took his post seriously, I replied to the parts I understood, asked questions about the parts I didn't, paid a compliment (of sorts) to PA Team, hell, I even at one point said I wasnt questioning Hanzi's good intentions. Which part of this makes me an ass is beyond me.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 29 Aug 2008, 00:31   #44
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

Makes me wonder if its not just a question of reputation
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Unread 29 Aug 2008, 01:12   #45
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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We have had open beta's in the past and they were complete wastes of time due to the fact that people didn't play to test the new features, they played to win.
It would not be a proper test if they did not play as they normally would, would it?

gum of the bum by the way
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Unread 29 Aug 2008, 02:27   #46
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
See, this baffles me. I took his post seriously, I replied to the parts I understood, asked questions about the parts I didn't, paid a compliment (of sorts) to PA Team, hell, I even at one point said I wasnt questioning Hanzi's good intentions. Which part of this makes me an ass is beyond me.
only problem with your posts Mz is that you -make sense-...

now stop that
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Unread 29 Aug 2008, 05:05   #47
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The problem is that there isn't a developer, nor a vision, meaning you can't use the experiences of the last 2 years as proof that Zeajii is wrong, because he's not.
You clearly stated that i was saying zaejii was wrong, and your opinion is that he is not wrong, which means you are also saying im wrong, and the only thing ive done is suggesting things that has no rights or wrongs!
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Unread 29 Aug 2008, 05:08   #48
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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You are just an ass.
That was meant for me? :P

im scanning for ASS yeh, and using my own res to fund #scans on netgamers, as im not online enough to use all my res
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Unread 29 Aug 2008, 07:12   #49
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Thumbs down Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

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im not playing. im sticking around!
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im scanning for ASS yeh, and using my own res to fund #scans on netgamers, as im not online enough to use all my res
so scanning = not playing? /scratches head.
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Unread 29 Aug 2008, 07:35   #50
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Re: Include the playerbase in changes!

MZ: to my eyes your reply wasnt worth a thing. You just made ass replys to each imo good points that he brought out.

HANZI: I am an ass myself :P and I am playing even less than you. The reply was aimed at MZ...

Zaejii: the scanning part is worst in this game and needs to change asap. It truely deeply sucks that you have to sacrifice your whole game play to be able to scan proper. Scanners should get x amount returned money on scans they spent.

I think best way would be to make scanners a whole own new race, when their techtree on other than scanning parts could be shorter. So they can catch up on lost eta/unit developement. Also having the ability to scan is a good enough unique thing compared to others.

The others could still have ability to search scans, but they wouldnt receive any refunded money nor shortened techtreee etas on other parts.
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