Caught Cheating?

[Zaejii]

everyone can argue about the affects cheating can have on a game, whether positive or negative. however, i feel that a couple changes need to be made to the EULA for when cheating is involved. below is the current section of consequences for cheating:

Originally Posted by EULA

18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken
(b) Any such actions will result in a warning or closure (1) of your Account depending on the case.
(c) If your Account is closed you will be sent an automated message briefly stating the reason for the closure. If you wish to appeal against the closure contact the multihunter team in #multihunters. Upon completion of this appeal the decision to close the Account will be reviewed and one of a number of actions may result including but not limited to re-opening, deletion or other various punitive measures (2).
(d) Accounts are automatically deleted and will be unrecoverable after 10 days of closure.
(e) An Admin does not need concrete evidence of an offence in order to punish you, he/she just needs to have significant evidence to convince a normal person that an offence has been committed ¿ evidence is deemed to be anything logged by the Planetarion game server ¿ IRC logs cannot be used as evidence, but can be used to add context to a case.

(1) there is no clause for repeated offences. if a player is caught cheating more than X times (i would suggest either 2 or 3) then they should be permanently banned from the game or given limited access to it. limited access could include (but not be limited to) being unable to join alliances, send oog/ooc defense fleets, etc.

(2) the punishment for a group of users being caught doing the same thing should be equal. if one player is caught farming in r38 and has his/her planet deleted, then another player is caught farming in the same round then they should also be deleted. there should not be different punishments for different individuals based on rank, alliance, rounds played, etc. keep in mind that when a planet is reset or deleted it states here that:

Originally Posted by Manual

If you have your own personal alliance, this will be removed when you reset your planet, if you are the only HC of an alliance with members the highest ranking member will be promoted to HC, if you are merely one HC of an alliance reseting you planet will just remove you from the alliance.

yes the Denial actions this round have influenced me to finally make this post, but it is in no way directed only at this instance of cheating. over the rounds there have been cases where some players were deleted while others were reset or even reopened with no consequences. there are players that have been closed multiple times and are known cheaters, but round after round they sign up only to get closed again. something needs to be done before the morale in this game sinks even lower. banning a few people for constant cheating will hurt the game less in the long run then keeping them around to be caught over and over will.

edit: threads dealing with similar ideas:
Aug 2007
June 2006

this one just made me chuckle:
Feb 2003

[zebra]

Who is Elviz?

[Tietäjä]

The issue is, even if you permanently ban someone from playing the game, the odds are he'll still be able to play. If he's "clever enough" to go through logging on to multiple planets more or less unnoticed (which happens), he's clever enough to just not use his own details on the sign up information. Rember once played a round living in Fiji Islands, Cockmaster Street 5 (I would know as I signed up the account for him), and nobody gave a flying ****. It's very difficult to ban someone from the game like that.

The most amusing thing is, certain repeated cheaters keep holding a high respect in parts of the community, where the repeated offenses are found more a giggle than a real problem hurting the game.

[newt]

I think you've stolen the "I've made the most moronic thread ever" honour away from me with this thread!

There's two types of cheating really - there's that "giggles" cheating which I do (either giving my login info to #planetarion to get closed, or multying for 0 personal gain - just doing it to piss off my 'anti-cheating' friends) and then there's the "real" cheating used by certain constant top100 people.

At the end of the day its up to the community, not the eula (for reasons keizari pointed out) to punish the real cheaters (never going to happen because of weak hcs all over the place). And if you're the type of liberal fuityloop nutcase that thinks even the "giggle" cheaters should be punished longterm too ... well ... seriously, you need to stop living in cloud cuckoo land.

Also, I don't think you realise jsut how many people do cheat in pa (or have cheated at some point, no matter how... remotely. Like I'm sure keizari signing up that dodgy planet is breaking the eula, but I guess that isn't "real" cheating whereas having a multy is? or is all cheating the same? hmm)

[Mzyxptlk]

Cheating is worse when you do it.

[Zaejii]

Originally Posted by Newt

At the end of the day its up to the community, not the eula (for reasons keizari pointed out) to punish the real cheaters (never going to happen because of weak hcs all over the place).

thanks newt, i was hoping someone would make this point.

yes it is up to the community if the EULA will not be changed. when you look back on the last few rounds where there has been accusations of people playing unfairly (the admin tools password thing rings a bell) people have started witch hunts to bash that alliance, but when someone cheats they have more than welcomed them into their alliance the next round.

people always accuse PATeam or Jolt for 'ruining the game' (which in some cases, i will agree) but nothing is more demeaning than watching the same people get away with cheating over and over while being closed and reopened (or reset) while others are deleted for doing the same thing.

p.s. i'm not a liberal.

[zebra]

If I had nothing better to do (now a rounds I don't) I'd tailor my fleet against Elviz and hit him every night after discovering his coords. And if he wouldn't just (get a friend to) sign up another planet custom made for deffing against me.

[newt]

Originally Posted by Zaejii

people always accuse PATeam or Jolt for 'ruining the game' (which in some cases, i will agree) but nothing is more demeaning than watching the same people get away with cheating over and over while being closed and reopened (or reset) while others are deleted for doing the same thing.

I'd say there's worse things than cheating about which are FAR easier for the playerbase/alliances to control. For example those people that are selfish ****s (I could easily just put up keizari's pa curriculum vitae here, or elviz's and so forth) and abuse alliances to do their will - and they end up with a glorious pa rank. Very few people in planetarion obtain consistently very good ranks on merit.

Of course this is just part of the game etc, but then I'd say cheating is as well. "well one is breaking hte rules and the other isn't...!!!!! idiot!!!" - staggeringly shit argument.

Basically pa is jsut one big farse now, has been for many a round. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone plays other than for the irc benefits.

[Zaejii]

yeah, i know theres no way to completely stop the cheating and all - but i would like all cases handled the same way. so what if you've signed up 20 'support planets'. if you do something that someone is getting deleted for, you should be deleted as well. its already bad enough to go, 'wow! so-and-so was caught cheating, AGAIN! *shock*' and deal with it every round.

one of the 'not handled the same way' cases that comes to mind is Achi's from a few rounds back when he was scanning publically (just to mention it). his planet ended up getting deleted while others got reopened. its just demoralizing, and i don't see how the same consequences can't be given to different people for the same offence.

[Ghosteh]

Zaejii, permit me to paraphrase you and hope for accuracy. If I am not, don't hesitate to correct me.

1) Players caught offending repeatedly should be banned 'permanently' - Hard to enforce, and I'm not sure we should hold grudges indefinitely (I multied in r3 - should this hold more or less weight than if I multied last round)? But I guess it's not a bad principle.

2) People closed for the same offence should receive an equal punishment - With allowances made for the particular scope of the offence (not the status of the offender), yeah why not?

[Tietäjä]

Originally Posted by Newt

Like I'm sure keizari signing up that dodgy planet is breaking the eula

Positive. I'm fairly confident you're not allowed to sign another person up, and I'm definate that you're not allowed to write false information to the sign up details.

Originally Posted by Newt

I'd say there's worse things than cheating about which are FAR easier for the playerbase/alliances to control. For example those people that are selfish ****s (I could easily just put up keizari's pa curriculum vitae here, or elviz's and so forth) and abuse alliances to do their will - and they end up with a glorious pa rank. Very few people in planetarion obtain consistently very good ranks on merit.

You could equally well add your own name or most of the excessum community to the top of that list. In fact, you'd be hard pushed to find people who in fact have never played selfish over the game. What comes to my CV, the obviously most striking feature is round 13. I'm not claiming I didn't play selfish. The whole battlegroup was about that. And I soaked a hell of a lot in galaxy defenses too, but I've never claimed that they weren't a vital part of my win. On the other hand, you could talk about the fact that I've ran a "top rank" alliance having only a scan planet for my own play. That's selfish? Obviously. I wanted to create a succesfull alliance. Even so, the team's just a compliation of several I's. I personally find this a lesser evil in compared to the famous Killmark's bot armies, or people hacking the game database to instantly move fleets around (has happened in another game), and outright breaking the game code. The bottom line is, the spineless HCs as you'd put it. If you're allowing a selfish person to enter your alliance you're essentially getting delivered what you paid for. The same goes for hosting a person you know breaches the game rules in your alliance. You do, quite a part of the time, know what you're doing. But in both cases, the prospect of success and name for your group often beats the tradeoff of sheltering a cheater or a selfish player.

The most interesting way to go around the selfish player part is to create a structure such as Ascendancy. There's plenty of selfish players there, but there's in the end little structure to abuse.

Originally Posted by Zaejii

yes it is up to the community if the EULA will not be changed

You can alter the EULA all you want. You'll still end up not being able to realistically enforce certain breaches. There's very little that can be done about the mentioned VNCing, in broader form, account sharing.

[Mzyxptlk]

In that light, this post makes a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by jerome

by the way, the reason i stand by statement is (believe it or not) not because of the 'unfair advantage' gained by cheating but i think a lot of things that are constituted as cheating in PA are stupid, and should be viable options implemented into the game. account sharing is a GOOD thing, the time intensive aspect of planetarion is ridiculous and incredibly self-involved for a game to have to assume that it should be the focal point of a players life. more controversially perhaps, i think each 'credit' should allow up to 10 planets, and farming and nearly every limit implemented in the game should be lifted simply because if you actually think about the width of any pathway you can take in the game right now; it's of an embarrassing size relatively to any other big internet game, text based or not.

cheating in the sense of actual DB manipulation like these naughty evil denial have done here is obviously still always going to be a no-no. however, i think people should have had the ability to stall production lines to begin with. which leads to me now summarising my point: i think 'CHEATING' should be reduced to viable options for EVERY player, not just some with extensive knowledge about VNCs or html or whatever the ****. you're never going to be able to stop the cheating as long as there's an unfair advantage to be gained. however, if you remove the unfair advantage aspect from it and make options available to everyone........

[M0RPH3US]

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

The most amusing thing is, certain repeated cheaters keep holding a high respect in parts of the community, where the repeated offenses are found more a giggle than a real problem hurting the game.

agreed and it makes me wonder...

how many cheator we have overall ?

how many ppl use the farms of cheator x ?

how many ppl give their login info to others "**** i can´t access inet at 12 GMT, can u pls recall my prelaunched fleet for that one tick and prelaunch it again after the battle"
or "damn i miss my research tick, could u login and do it pls, ta"

i dont even wanna know how many of those won a round or ended top ranked

but thats nothing new, its been there since r1, and prolly will be there even with 50 remaining players (of which 25 cheat)

Just a idea:
would be nice to have a truely non cheating player gain additional XP, while a guy suspected to have shared login details (cause he logged in from a "friends" IP ("yes i was at his place for a bbq") get XP removed or none added.
could boost some of the loyal fair playing guys up the ranks, and may prevent cheators from doing so, as they dont wanna loose XP

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

would be nice to have a truely non cheating player gain additional XP, while a guy suspected to have shared login details (cause he logged in from a "friends" IP ("yes i was at his place for a bbq") get XP removed or none added.
could boost some of the loyal fair playing guys up the ranks, and may prevent cheators from doing so, as they dont wanna loose XP

Worst idea I've heard this year. Who qualifies as a "truly non cheating player"?

[Zaejii]

based on the singular focus of most replies, please note there were two separate suggestions at the top, and i don't think anyone is reading them entirely.

Originally Posted by Zaejii

(1) there is no clause for repeated offences. if a player is caught cheating more than X times (i would suggest either 2 or 3) then they should be permanently banned from the game or given limited access to it. limited access could include (but not be limited to) being unable to join alliances, send oog/ooc defense fleets, etc.

(2) the punishment for a group of users being caught doing the same thing should be equal. if one player is caught farming in r38 and has his/her planet deleted, then another player is caught farming in the same round then they should also be deleted. there should not be different punishments for different individuals based on rank, alliance, rounds played, etc.

yes, i understand that there are ways to get around a ban, and that not all offenses warrant a perma ban - hense the limited access. however, if you had a perma ban on you and you signed up anyway and were found out, you'd just be closed again. no harm, no foul, hopefully you being signed up didn't affect anyone else's round.

all these retroactive discussions about what was allowed before and aren't allowed now are invalid. if you 'cheated' in the past (in relation to the current rule set), big deal. some things were allowed back then and rules have changed. if you got away with something minor like signing up a friend and never logging into their account again, big deal. some offenses are worse than others, and need us not forget that you (general you) have to be caught doing it. also, some cases were handled differently where some were treated more harshly than others for the same offense. games change, rules evolve, etc.

p.s. i'd be happy to have something done about point (2) where everyone is given the same treatment, and never worry about a ban system - but it never hurts to try suggesting something.

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

Just a idea:
would be nice to have a truely non cheating player gain additional XP, while a guy suspected to have shared login details (cause he logged in from a "friends" IP ("yes i was at his place for a bbq") get XP removed or none added.
could boost some of the loyal fair playing guys up the ranks, and may prevent cheators from doing so, as they dont wanna loose XP

if you want to add your own crap ideas, please make your own crap thread instead of redirecting this one to make fun of you. opinions are good. this is crap.

[DunkelGraf]

Why is it up to Pa-Team to create rules to punish (all-time-)cheater? Just dont let them (re-)join this community! Dont let them join any ally, dont let them stay in your gal, just treat them as a cheater.... kick them out of the game.

[M0RPH3US]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Worst idea I've heard this year. Who qualifies as a "truly non cheating player"?

damn

well the year is still long, so there is a slight chance someone passes me

and i dont have a clue how u would actually qualify a non cheating player, but weird as it is, i was never closed/suspected due to cheating, while others have been, and instead of closing em and reopening them, cause "they cant remember where they have those passwords from" remove XP from em

and Zaejii, now just for the fun of annoying u, i will read this thread daily and add my shit

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

damn

well the year is still long, so there is a slight chance someone passes me

and i dont have a clue how u would actually qualify a non cheating player, but weird as it is, i was never closed/suspected due to cheating, while others have been, and instead of closing em and reopening them, cause "they cant remember where they have those passwords from" remove XP from em

and Zaejii, now just for the fun of annoying u, i will read this thread daily and add my shit

The act of reopening implies innocence. Why on earth you want to punish the innocent is beyond me.

[neroon]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Who qualifies as a "truly non cheating player"?

i like to think that i do for instance

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by neroon

i like to think that i do for instance

I disagree. I don't trust you. How's about I take off half your XP.

[neroon]

then i would b left with too few :/:/

[M0RPH3US]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

The act of reopening implies innocence.

lol

we both know that this is the biggest joke ever

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

lol

we both know that this is the biggest joke ever

But it seems only I know that punishing people without proof is retarded.

[M0RPH3US]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

But it seems only I know that punishing people without proof is retarded.

define proof

there is a reason someone is closed/warned
and it isnt the reason someone told he would farm/acc share, cause alone accusing someone doesnt move Multihunters to actually close em

maybe there is thousands of ppl who got accused though they didnt cheat, but i doubt it! (ofc everyone will tell so though)
so i rather see one person punished for wrong reasons, and 10 cheaters removed XP then none punished at all and keep cheating alive.

ofc to be on a recieveing end and beeing not guilty is no fun, but then again how many unguilty ppl get suspected...

[Mzyxptlk]

The reason planet get closed is because there's a suspicion they did something wrong. The owner of the planet in question then has the chance to defend himself, after which the multihunter either reopens the planet or deletes it. This is the way any decent system of law works.

Your proposal completely dismantles this process, and replaces it with a completely arbitrary set of rules, which basically state that the multihunters can punish anyone they like, based on little or no evidence. I don't trust the multihunters (or anyone) to wield this kind of power because power corrupts. This is why your idea is retarded and if you still can't see it, then you're a hopeless case.

Some good examples of what I percieve as hints that this will indeed happen if your proposal were to be pushed through are (amongst other things) the blatant dictatorship of the minority, the petty renaming of planet names, the removal of galpics at the first complaint and the conservative, nearly puritan, censorship of ingame mails.

[newt]

As much as it pains me to say this, I agree with jer's comments from wherever he said it.

Cheating is far too easy (and has been for years since broadband has taken off bigtime). And you do not need to be remotely skileld to do it, at all (beyond perhaps installing ubuntu on your pc which is easier than winxp to do - though maybe creating a new partition to do it could be tricky for some)! For example, if you run linux then all you need to do is create a user on your machine:

"useradd -m -G users -s /bin/bash lolcheating"

and adjsut your firewalls accordingly (generally best to put yourself in the router's DMZ zone unless you know what you're doing). Then have the person you account share with type (if on linux):

"ssh -D <port number> lolcheating@<ip of person you're account sharing with>"

and then set up firefox to use that port on localhost and bam, you're away. Takes 2mins to set up, isn't band-width absorbing at all like VNC/etc and anyone can do it regardless of computer expertise. Its almost as easy to connect to the tunnel if you're on windows as well ... guess to set up the actual ssh tunnel on a windows machine would be susbstantially harder though. But those people always have VNC. A tunnel can also give someone access to IRC on that IP too, and so forth.

On top of those very conveniant options, you also have mobile phones to do it - though that requires hassle in getting sim cards and stuff (I assume pa monitors the number of a phone used to log into a PA account).

All in all, cheating is very easy and unless you're stupid (like I have been this round and I'm still open...!), impossible to spot. Especially nowadays when most players have made very close groups of friends over the years, some who they will gladly give full access to their computers (VNC) or limitted (remote desktop, ssh tunnels, etc).

So surely its time that cheating was, at least to some extent, allowed. Gettign rid of cheating is never going to happen, so the only way to level the playing field is to let everyone cheat. And even if you don't accept the argument above, there is also:

Originally Posted by jer

the time intensive aspect of planetarion is ridiculous and incredibly self-involved for a game to have to assume that it should be the focal point of a players life

[Tietäjä]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

Worst idea I've heard this year. Who qualifies as a "truly non cheating player"?

Good friends and former alliance members of the chief multihunter, of course. You had to ask?

The reason planet get closed is because there's a suspicion they did something wrong. The owner of the planet in question then has the chance to defend himself, after which the multihunter either reopens the planet or deletes it. This is the way any decent system of law works.

The problem I see here is that you're getting punished for a suspicion. You might get essentially ****ed in-game for simply being suspected, as you probably, as an innocent person, aren't anticipating a closure slapping on you. Again, "decent systems of law" don't, as such, apply to the world the game lives.

I have to agree with Jer's claims that the only way to make it "level" is to revise the whole view to it. Facts stand, do we (for that, I don't play it irregardless) want to play a game where "cheating" is not allowed yet it's blatantly obvious that people cheat consistently and won't get caught for it, or will we just have to accept the facts, losen up on the rules, and possibly make the game more attractive as an open level field of play (instead of the elite playground it is now).

[M0RPH3US]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

The reason planet get closed is because there's a suspicion they did something wrong. The owner of the planet in question then has the chance to defend himself, after which the multihunter either reopens the planet or deletes it. This is the way any decent system of law works.

Your proposal completely dismantles this process, and replaces it with a completely arbitrary set of rules, which basically state that the multihunters can punish anyone they like, based on little or no evidence. I don't trust the multihunters (or anyone) to wield this kind of power because power corrupts. This is why your idea is retarded and if you still can't see it, then you're a hopeless case.

Some good examples of what I percieve as hints that this will indeed happen if your proposal were to be pushed through are (amongst other things) the blatant dictatorship of the minority, the petty renaming of planet names, the removal of galpics at the first complaint and the conservative, nearly puritan, censorship of ingame mails.

yes i am hopeless case
and yes i am retarded

still i would agree with u here
and i dont see a good system to prevent cheating
as it most likely isnt to be prevented

it was a suggestion, but i can fully see ur points (at least in ur last post), and i am not trusting anyone with powers either...

leaves me...

i dont know what to do, but i hate seeing cheaters beeing reopened, while others remain closed
e.g. Denial HC never!!! should have been allowed to restart their Acc, and every Denial player not leaving this cheating alliance, admits to cheating!!!

its a sick world, where HC´s cheat and still are allowed to run a alliance, and even more sick for everyone not leaving em immediately

[Ghosteh]

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

every Denial player not leaving this cheating alliance, admits to cheating!!!

its a sick world, where HC´s cheat and still are allowed to run a alliance, and even more sick for everyone not leaving em immediately

No, they don't.



If but a fraction of the thoughtless anger about alliances on this forum was poured into constructive energy for topics like third-world hunger, global warming or AIDS, we would be able to solve humanity's problems in a week.

Is your not leaving of humanity is an admission of your guilt in all of these problems too?

[M0RPH3US]

Originally Posted by Ghosteh

No, they don't.



If but a fraction of the thoughtless anger about alliances on this forum was poured into constructive energy for topics like third-world hunger, global warming or AIDS, we would be able to solve humanity's problems in a week.

Is your not leaving of humanity is an admission of your guilt in all of these problems too?

actually it is ur guilt indeed, by buying cheap vegetables and other specialized food from the third world u are a factor for the third-world hunger.
As agriculturals space there isnt used for food to feed the own population, but to produce cheap stuff for the world market (as there is just more money to earn)
solution for urself would be to buy only products from ur own country (or to leave Denial, as u know the HC cheated and u dont wanna be committed to cheating in any kind of way)

it is ur guilt, that we have global warming, as u drive a car using oil instead of like a solar mobile or a bike, as u run ur computer 24/7 instead of only plug it in when u actually need it, as ur TV is running next to it and if not still it is on stand-by, cause u cba to set the time again and again after pluggin out the powersupply connection. U waste Energy every day so yes u are a a factor for the global warming. solution for urself stop wasting engery whenever u can, leave ur computer turned off, read a book instead of watching TV (or leave Denial, as u know the HC cheated and u dont wanna be committed to cheating in any kind of way)

same for AIDS, as u still f*** around without using condoms, without asking ur partner if she/he made a AIDS test, without doing a AIDS test urself. etc....

and i am afraid leaving humanity isnt a option, if u count to kill urself out, but its ur own decission if u wanna be part of the general movement and do like ur used to (hell everyone else doesnt start to safe energy why would i?)
same for ur choice of alliance

[Ghosteh]

Originally Posted by M0RPH3US

actually it is ur guilt indeed, by buying cheap vegetables and other specialized food from the third world u are a factor for the third-world hunger.
As agriculturals space there isnt used for food to feed the own population, but to produce cheap stuff for the world market (as there is just more money to earn)
solution for urself would be to buy only products from ur own country (or to leave Denial, as u know the HC cheated and u dont wanna be committed to cheating in any kind of way)

it is ur guilt, that we have global warming, as u drive a car using oil instead of like a solar mobile or a bike, as u run ur computer 24/7 instead of only plug it in when u actually need it, as ur TV is running next to it and if not still it is on stand-by, cause u cba to set the time again and again after pluggin out the powersupply connection. U waste Energy every day so yes u are a a factor for the global warming. solution for urself stop wasting engery whenever u can, leave ur computer turned off, read a book instead of watching TV (or leave Denial, as u know the HC cheated and u dont wanna be committed to cheating in any kind of way)

same for AIDS, as u still f*** around without using condoms, without asking ur partner if she/he made a AIDS test, without doing a AIDS test urself. etc....

and i am afraid leaving humanity isnt a option, if u count to kill urself out, but its ur own decission if u wanna be part of the general movement and do like ur used to (hell everyone else doesnt start to safe energy why would i?)
same for ur choice of alliance

But it is not my guilt that is up for debate. I buy food from overseas, I use so much energy that I've become accustomed to drinking a tall glass of crude oil for breakfast every day, and where applicable, I tend not to think about sexual safety (yet still don't have AIDS?).


The problem is that using your logic, only a complete separation from your 'team' can absolve your guilt. For a Denial member, you say this involves jumping ship. If I were to criticise the actions of my HC, or the punishment given them, this is only a pointless half-measure according to your logic.


According to your logic then, even denouncing social evils and doing good where you can is a pointless half measure, as you still belong to the guilty Team Humanity. That you have not killed yourself, or 'jumped ship' if you will, is proof of this.


Clearly this is unreasonable. As is your argument.

[M0RPH3US]

Originally Posted by Ghosteh

But it is not my guilt that is up for debate. I buy food from overseas, I use so much energy that I've become accustomed to drinking a tall glass of crude oil for breakfast every day, and where applicable, I tend not to think about sexual safety (yet still don't have AIDS?).


The problem is that using your logic, only a complete separation from your 'team' can absolve your guilt. For a Denial member, you say this involves jumping ship. If I were to criticise the actions of my HC, or the punishment given them, this is only a pointless half-measure according to your logic.


According to your logic then, even denouncing social evils and doing good where you can is a pointless half measure, as you still belong to the guilty Team Humanity. That you have not killed yourself, or 'jumped ship' if you will, is proof of this.


Clearly this is unreasonable. As is your argument.

no it wasnt jumping ship, if a denial member came to my alliance, telling me he doesnt want to play with a cheating High Council and therefor applies to my alliance.
Dunno which alliance would see a case like this as jumping ship.

i know only, and maybe i should have stated it this way from the start, if i find my HC cheating i would immediately leave the alliance, no matter if that means that my round may be over or that i will be roided.

Stickin with a HC that cheats, is FOR ME the same as cheating myself.

[Zaejii]

this thread isn't about who cheated or who didn't, its about trying to find a way to prevent / punish those people. please ruin your own thread or take it to pm's.

[newt]

Originally Posted by morpheus

Stickin with a HC that cheats, is FOR ME the same as cheating myself.

Just because your hc haven't been caught by multi hunters (re: how easy it is to cheat without getting caught or even raising so much as a tiny bit of suspicion) doesn't mean they haven't cheated. And for the love of God don't reply with stuff like "I KNOW MY HC! THEY ARE GOOD PEOPLE, LAW-ABIDING, THEY WOULD NEVER CHEAT IN AN ONLINE TEXT BASED GAME!". I don't know if you people are naive, or if I'm just very cynical must be one of the two.

PA team should just allow account sharing, but not multying (I don't think what jer said about the multying = extra planets at all justifies the benefits from having a proper multy planet). In my opinion, you should be allowed to choose 2 (or 3? or 5? whatever) planets you can account share with - with the following guidelines (just off the top of my rather sexy head):

- you and those planets can interact fully
- the planets you have listed to account share with must be predominantly NOT played by you (simple to code in a check for this?) - if its apparent that it is effectively a multy, either warn or remove the planet from his account sharing options
- depending on the number of planets you account share with, maximum 5?, you will receive some kind of handicap on your planet (perhaps a reduction in xp as morph3us suggested for cheating in general)

What would you people think of an idea like that? I know the anti-cheating brigade will spew out their typical crap, but all I will add is...

For PA to progress, it will need to be put on facebook/etc at some point. You could have a sudden influx of even 10k players then. How many of those would continue playing in the current setup? How many of them will want (or need to!) account share with friends to get started in the game? I know when I first played pa I cheated with my mates like crazy - it took 2 or 3 rounds before I realised how evil cheating is and went nuts like morph3us about it. Indeed, everyone I know who started pa back then (including someone who went on to be in pa team) also cheated like mad when they first started.

Or maybe if we suddenly had 12k players, restrictions on cheating would automatically be lifted because of the workload for the multihunters. But all the same, I still think some kind of allowance for 'cheating' should be included into the rules. And I think it'd benefit a 1k player universe a great deal too.

[HRH_H_Crab]

Im getting sick and tired of all these suggestions that account sharing be made legitimate. Perhaps I need to spend a few rounds in a bent bp where everyone shares login details, ip addresses and vnc passwords in order to get off my high horse.

Clearly its a case of: honest player = idiotic mug.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab

Im getting sick and tired of all these suggestions that account sharing be made legitimate. Perhaps I need to spend a few rounds in a bent bp where everyone shares login details, ip addresses and vnc passwords in order to get off my high horse.

Clearly its a case of: honest player = idiotic mug.

I think the idea is more that legalising account-sharing would be a good idea. Not that account-sharing now is something to be recommended.