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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 16:17   #51
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Exclamation Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

has been said too many times but still:

REMOVE THE ALLIANCE LIMITS COMPLETELY...pls:crymeariver:

oops caps
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 19:48   #52
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
I seriously doubt there are alliances around nowadays that are capable of excerting the level of military power the likes of eXilition, 1up, and fury did.
It's not just that though - I think that 1up/Fury/Exilition also had much slicker command. If an attack was run, then the members would join it for the main purpose of getting their alliance to #1.

1up started to be beaten by Exilition because the memberbase changed into battlegroups that were more interested in their own personal gain, rather than the alliance as a whole. Exilition had members who were dedicated to their alliance and knew that while one night they might not get a perfect target, they would the next night. As they trusted in the command.

Nowadays people are too selfish to help the alliance as a whole, so alliances seem only to serve as a place to get galaxies covered for attacks, and to get defence (and in return you send your own defence).

I'm not sure how people can go "oh but we have such an awesome community!" when their alliance is only around for 1 or 2 rounds.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 19:58   #53
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

The alliance limits are a farce, as they no longer reflect true dominance of the game. For them to be valid, alliances need to respect them. As they don't, they are simply not valid thus the alliance limit should be eliminated. But all alliances not respecting it should think this way - why do you want planetarion to be a game of how many players you have in your alliance? This is not really a credible basis to win a round.

I'm also in agreement with TomKat - players want roids, they aren't interested in focussed campaigns where some people might profit more than others on a particular night, when actually if people participated in such attacks, they would be more secure in the longer term. Aggressive attacks are more effective at hurting alliances - simply blanketing attacks for roids is not really a 'war', it's just a large roiding mission.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 20:10   #54
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

the number of planets in an alliance is not that important. just look at 1up in r11 (or was it r12? can't remember; what i mean is when they won a round with 33% less members than the ally limit was) for example.

if an alliance got 10 extra planets so what? it doesn't mean jack shit if that alliance does not have a leadership that is strong enough to lead those planets and direct them towards the enemy.

the lack of strong leaders (no offense intended to the current HCs) is imo the main reason why this and the last rounds got closer and closer and not the alliance limit.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 20:38   #55
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
if an alliance got 10 extra planets so what?
Looking on R20, R21 and R22 it matters quite alot it seems.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 20:48   #56
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

To be honest, i don't know what could be more destructive. The ingame alliances and the alliance limit were put in place to objectively rank alliances and declare a winner. Even while alliances have support planets outside the tag, i feel that these planets do not have much influence in the outcome of a round. The alliance limit still efectively reduce the amount of quality players an alliance gets, which means that no single alliance really concentrates all the talent in PA. Another advantage the alliance rankings have is that it effectively helps regulate the round. While there have been alliances like 1up and eX that dominated the rounds they played, even these alliances went through rough nights to prove themselves winners in the end, since other alliances automatically target the winning alliance so that the round is not prematurely over. I am afraid that without this self-regulation mechanism some big alliance might win the round too early round, resulting in stagnation towards the end.
I think that the support planet rule is innecesary, but a means to rank alliances is also necessary to maintain balance.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 20:50   #57
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

so you are saying that the winning alliance of r20, r21 and r22 all had at least 10 out of tag support planets and all their competitors didn't?

thank you, you just made me laugh for ten minutes and that saved my day!!!

edit: are you able to answer my post as a whole instead of grabbing one sentence out of it?
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 20:52   #58
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
The alliance limits are a farce, as they no longer reflect true dominance of the game. For them to be valid, alliances need to respect them. As they don't, they are simply not valid thus the alliance limit should be eliminated. But all alliances not respecting it should think this way - why do you want planetarion to be a game of how many players you have in your alliance? This is not really a credible basis to win a round.
I think the limit does have some effect on how alliances recruit. If you go over the limit you need to plan on how to use these planets, how to hide them, etc. As far as I know even the alliances who go over the limit turn people down because they do not want to be too far over the limit and will have to ask extra players to play support roles or play without ally defense etc. I think lifting the limit would definitely increase alliance size, especially if alliances continue to be ranked based on net score in tag.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:15   #59
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida
so you are saying that the winning alliance of r20, r21 and r22 all had at least 10 out of tag support planets and all their competitors didn't?
The rankings of those rounds shows big gaps in score on alliances with 70, 60, 50ish members - So 10 members matters alot these days.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:21   #60
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
No i am not... go back read again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Looking on R20, R21 and R22 it matters quite alot it seems.
care to explain where it mattered a lot; how it had a big impact on the outcome of the round?
if it wasn't the winning alliance who had those support planets it did not matter jack shit that anyone else had 10 extra planets as i said in my initial post.

who cares if he ends up #2 or #22

which round is more exciting:

1) all top 10 allies only have done gal raiding all round and all end up with score gaps of 10k between them

2)the gap between #1 and #2 is 100 mill coz those two alliances did war with each other, gave each other the shit every night and one of those allies managed to come out victorious of this fight
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:25   #61
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
I think the limit does have some effect on how alliances recruit. If you go over the limit you need to plan on how to use these planets, how to hide them, etc. As far as I know even the alliances who go over the limit turn people down because they do not want to be too far over the limit and will have to ask extra players to play support roles or play without ally defense etc. I think lifting the limit would definitely increase alliance size, especially if alliances continue to be ranked based on net score in tag.
Then why are alliances doing everything possible to avoid planets being classified as support and have planets listed beyond their limit? Really they don't care about them so long as they get away with it. I can see your perspective, but I'm far too cynical to agree with it.

If alliances don't care about them, they need to be removed. Like Almeida said the way wars are run are the most important, alliance limits are a side issue. But, in my opinion either we respect the rules of engagement (as in you have the number of planets in your tag) or we just cut the bullshit of alliance limits and tags and have no rules of engagement and adopt a laissez faire approach where the round is what alliances make of it and we simply tot up score at the end.

I think the former is better in a smaller universe, as much as the latter is probably better overall - that's my opinion, many will disagree, I have no real objective basis for my opinion on this particular issue, it's just based on a gut feeling. But this is planetarion not national security.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:28   #62
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida
care to explain where it mattered a lot;
I edited my post, read up again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida
which round is more exciting:

1) all top 10 allies only have done gal raiding all round and all end up with score gaps of 10k between them

2)the gap between #1 and #2 is 100 mill coz those two alliances did war with each other, gave each other the shit every night and one of those allies managed to come out victorious of this fight
So there is only those 2 alternatives?

Id go for 3) all top 10 allies are at war, outcome largely focused trough politics, and still its an exciting round till the end where there is actually something to fight for.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:37   #63
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

ah right, didn't see the edit, go one round further back:

r19

Rank Name Members Av. Size Av. Score Size Score
1 eXilition 63 710 4886954 44700 293217224
2 NewDawn 78 485 4461363 37810 267681770

this is another example that it's not the size of an alliance that is the main reason for it's success.

i am 100% confident, that if an alliance like 1up or eXi with their strict and absolutly ally oriented command would be created again it could easily be proven that it still is possible to win against alliances with 10 more ppl in their tag.

the point 3 as you described it sounds nice, and actually if ally #1 and #2 are at war with each other, the other top 10 allies nearly everytime played a role. be it as a NAP partner, as flak, as block partner etc. that's what i ment with my pt 2)
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:40   #64
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida
the number of planets in an alliance is not that important. just look at 1up in r11 (or was it r12? can't remember; what i mean is when they won a round with 33% less members than the ally limit was) for example.

if an alliance got 10 extra planets so what? it doesn't mean jack shit if that alliance does not have a leadership that is strong enough to lead those planets and direct them towards the enemy.

the lack of strong leaders (no offense intended to the current HCs) is imo the main reason why this and the last rounds got closer and closer and not the alliance limit.
There are still some hardcore players and there are still some very strong leaders, but this dwindling minority is not enough to support strong long term alliances. 1up had many of the same strong leaders when it disbanded anchored by Sid but it was a very very different alliance because the members were sick of Planetarion and could not be bothered to put the work in no matter who was leading them.

Of course the number of players in an alliance matters. It isn't the only thing that matters but it is definitely important and by controlling it the alliance limit does significantly increase parity. It doesn't ensure parity, but it makes it much more likely. Net score is a result of quality and quantity, not one or the other and both are important to having the highest possible net score.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:42   #65
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

or if this is too far in the past for you: just check the current rankings.

according to you CT got no support planets but Jenova and VgN both got additional out of tag planets. why didn't those two alliances already overtake CT. by your logic they should as it is primary the size of an alliance that makes it better than another alliance and therefor to even out the playing field alliance limits are neccessary.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:43   #66
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

What i am saying is that during the rounds from r19 till now the quality members has become more spread out and the alliance limit is a helping cause. (i wrote more on it earlier scroll up).
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:47   #67
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

@K-W: i think it is much more benefitting the game if everyone would be allowed to play within the community he wants to instead of making parity more likely.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:52   #68
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
What i am saying is that during the rounds from r19 till now the quality members has become more spread out and the alliance limit is a helping cause. (i wrote more on it earlier scroll up).
u could look at it from another point of view: the quality players didn't spread out more, the niveau of the game dropped due to non existant brutal wars.

there is much less "quality" needed to do gal raids and fend of regular incomings than for planet targeting and facing 250+ calls per night. so u can't spot the real quality anymore.

in war times you could see who would go the extra bit for success and who didn't. those who didn't might still be skilled players and now as there is no real pressure anymore suddenly they look the same quality as those hardcore players i mentioned before.

quality sounds so posh; lets replace it with ppl putting in more effort than others
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:55   #69
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

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Originally Posted by lokken
Then why are alliances doing everything possible to avoid planets being classified as support and have planets listed beyond their limit? Really they don't care about them so long as they get away with it. I can see your perspective, but I'm far too cynical to agree with it.

If alliances don't care about them, they need to be removed. Like Almeida said the way wars are run are the most important, alliance limits are a side issue. But, in my opinion either we respect the rules of engagement (as in you have the number of planets in your tag) or we just cut the bullshit of alliance limits and tags and have no rules of engagement and adopt a laissez faire approach where the round is what alliances make of it and we simply tot up score at the end.

I think the former is better in a smaller universe, as much as the latter is probably better overall - that's my opinion, many will disagree, I have no real objective basis for my opinion on this particular issue, it's just based on a gut feeling. But this is planetarion not national security.
Some people/alliances will always try to break and bend the rules to gain an advantage. I don't see this as an argument for not having rules. By and large alliances do not respect the alliance limit to the letter, but it still has an effect on their size. It isn't completely ignored in my experience.

Anyway, I agree with the overall point here. I think alliances need to be taken out of the official rankings. Then there is no need whatsoever to have rules limiting alliances or people enforcing those rules. Let the multihunters focus on catching multis and let people organize themselves freely as they compete in the planet and galaxy rankings.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:59   #70
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida
@K-W: i think it is much more benefitting the game if everyone would be allowed to play within the community he wants to instead of making parity more likely.
I agree, I am just pointing out that if you are going to rank alliances based on net score, controlling for planet number is a very good way of creating parity within that framework. If all we did was remove the alliance limit, it would lead to less parity in the net-score rankings. I'm not necessarily arguing that this is better than giving people freedom, but it would happen. Personally I object to that entire framework of official net-score rankings partly because of how limiting and messy alliance caps are.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 22:28   #71
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
Some people/alliances will always try to break and bend the rules to gain an advantage. I don't see this as an argument for not having rules. By and large alliances do not respect the alliance limit to the letter, but it still has an effect on their size. It isn't completely ignored in my experience.

Anyway, I agree with the overall point here. I think alliances need to be taken out of the official rankings. Then there is no need whatsoever to have rules limiting alliances or people enforcing those rules. Let the multihunters focus on catching multis and let people organize themselves freely as they compete in the planet and galaxy rankings.
It's not that I mind people bending or breaking the rules, it just that mass recruitment gets a bit tedious after a while. It doesn't exactly require thought and isn't really a good way of playing the game. I just get the feeling they want to ignore it, so we would be better off without rather than having a system that looks a bit shambolic with support planet rules and the like. It goes against my preference of limiting membership of alliances but shrug.

I do think there should be 'invisible' alliance tags to be clear - it's just that score should not be revealed until the end and alliance score should be worked out purely on intelligence until that point. It would also force HC to see situations in isolation more rather than thinking about rankings all the time, which sometimes cause alliances to do things that are more silly than normal and that wouldn't be done if they weren't readily available. I think the game would improve.

As for what you think multis should be for: you are entirely right. We should also enforce more strictly against:

- farming
- donations with the inferred sole intention of boosting rank in/to the top 100. Any other donations we shouldn't really care about.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 22:34   #72
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
donations with the inferred sole intention of boosting rank in the top 100
So thats bad - but support planets are ok?

No tx to invisible alliance tags / scores - prefer to have an open competition where you know who to hit to gain ranks
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 22:39   #73
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Not revealing the rankings until the end would help, but why have them at all? Whats wrong with a competition between planets where alliances work in the background and members are free to have all kinds of different groupings and cooperative structures without being limited by a competition to see who can get the most score into an official tag?
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 22:43   #74
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Well I am under the presumption that players generally prefer a score winner; from my point of view it would be great to get rid of it - more discussion on AD about who won.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 22:54   #75
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Without the competition in it then what would it be all about then?

Hours of spamsquads trying to claim the win on the board? Surely the asc trolls would win any round then :P

The alliance rankings are working and its great fun, dont ruin it tx!!!
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 23:04   #76
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Discuss which alliance has won a round? Oh please, you lot can't even decide if Greenhills won last round in the planet rankings :/
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 23:17   #77
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
Greenhills won last round in the planet rankings :/
I thought everyone agreed that they won last round?

Edit: If there were nothing to discuss or argue about, then why the bloody hell did we sign up for this forum? :/
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 00:28   #78
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Let me get this straight, because the top alliances abuse the alliance limit rule the rule should be lifted so that the top alliances can recruit as many players as they want?

Oh the irony.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 01:25   #79
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Yes, Kargool, maybe then we could "go back to the time" when power wasn't dictated by quantity, but by quality? Total numbers meant so little if you didn't have the power to wield it back then. No one said it couldn't be like that again.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 02:28   #80
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Erm, back in the "good old days" there were alot more players so the reason for the successes of the lesser quantity alliances was because most of the big quantity alliances didnt have an active membercore and thus ate itself up. Nowadays the no limit wont lead to that, more to the fact that most active players will flock around the active officer/hc teams around and be a huge effective war machine instead of headless chickens as many of the big all you can recruit alliances back then was.

There were other factors aswell, the amount of players out of alliance in the earlier rounds compared to the amount of players out of alliance in theese rounds simply is to vastly different to comprehend. The reason people werent in alliances in the earlier rounds was because the playerbase was so big that most out of ally people hadnt heard about the concept of alliances. Thats no longer the case.

I find the oh, we want to go back to the old days symphony whining to be a tragic ineducation in both what PA is now, and what PA was back then.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 03:33   #81
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Without the competition in it then what would it be all about then?

Hours of spamsquads trying to claim the win on the board? Surely the asc trolls would win any round then :P

The alliance rankings are working and its great fun, dont ruin it tx!!!
The game is called Planetarion not Alliancearion for a reason. (other than how stupid Alliancearion sounds)
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 08:55   #82
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
Discuss which alliance has won a round? Oh please, you lot can't even decide if Greenhills won last round in the planet rankings :/
To begin, there is no doubt about last round's planet winner. PA team declared that he won and that is that. This statement holds as much water as Liza's mate's bucket. There is only one way to judge a planet - score. Alliances are different beasts, although score is a very useful (and often decisive) indicator.

The point that I think myself and many other people are trying to make, is that judging alliances by score has stopped being a useful indicator as to how good they are. Dominance, Blue riband planets, military ability are also very important. Prior to alliance rankings winners were often pretty much decided by consensus - the only round that there was no particular consensus is round 6. I could sit here and make arguments for why at least 4 alliances (Fury, Xanadu, Deus, Wolfpack) won that round but this round was particularly exceptional in its entertainment and quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Let me get this straight, because the top alliances abuse the alliance limit rule the rule should be lifted so that the top alliances can recruit as many players as they want?

Oh the irony.
In my opinion you should set no limit to how many people can join an alliance tag but you should be able to limit how many people receive the various benefits of it, perhaps this should even be reduced. This gets rid of the stupid carte blanche multi hunters currently have to delete planets that really are less of a problem than people make out.

The support planet rule has been misused, simply because it was initially made to stop the type of planets that built one type of ship and just defended exilition. The problem I had with this at the time (and still do) is that alliances should be welcome to this set up because it is organisation, so long as they do not login share. I find multiing, login sharing, farming and donations far more offensive than anything that is classified as support and I think many others would feel the same too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
Without the competition in it then what would it be all about then?

Hours of spamsquads trying to claim the win on the board? Surely the asc trolls would win any round then :P

The alliance rankings are working and its great fun, dont ruin it tx!!!
If I ever see anything like the 1up of round 11 and 12 scale again, i am going to ban the whole 'crew' from AD for spamming, apart from one representative. I will not have arguments resolved by a bunch of people all agreeing to post in the same thread and win an argument by volume of posts agreeing the same thing to drown out a different point of view. This is very unlikely to be repeated in any case, so it doesn't worry me.

There are people who are worried that it's not just about winning, it's about the quality of the game play. We need to take steps to encourage it to improve.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 09:11   #83
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Re: Close round so far.

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
I dunno man, I've done a bit of research and I found out something quite surprising!!

http://www.trattle.co.uk/pics/proof.jpg
What, we are only 2nd?

|edit| Anyone who thinks Red- is a complete and utter tosser, raise your hands.



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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 09:17   #84
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Erm, back in the "good old days" there were alot more players so the reason for the successes of the lesser quantity alliances was because most of the big quantity alliances didnt have an active membercore and thus ate itself up. Nowadays the no limit wont lead to that, more to the fact that most active players will flock around the active officer/hc teams around and be a huge effective war machine instead of headless chickens as many of the big all you can recruit alliances back then was.
Personally, both as a player and a hc, I'd rather be part of a small effective war machine in that environment. I'm sure there's a few out there who feel the same way.

Certainly in my experience there's times when top alliances can actually be seen to compromise (pre-round) in recruitment/setup. What I mean by this, is that they willingly refuse top players or playing strategies they know will make them more likely to win. They do this because most people don't actually want to put two months of hard work into something that already has the odds too firmly stacked in their favour. It's infinitely more rewarding to do it the hard way.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:13   #85
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
If I ever see anything like the 1up of round 11 and 12 scale again, i am going to ban the whole 'crew' from AD for spamming, apart from one representative. I will not have arguments resolved by a bunch of people all agreeing to post in the same thread and win an argument by volume of posts agreeing the same thing to drown out a different point of view. This is very unlikely to be repeated in any case, so it doesn't worry me.
Is it really that unlikely... 90% of mine and others neg reps come from the same 10-15 people, all of which disagree with us on alliance limit / support planet rules. Same bunch also resorting to name calling, harrashment posts etc.

I dont really see that big of a difference tbh.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:20   #86
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

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Originally Posted by Red-
Is it really that unlikely... 90% of mine and others neg reps come from the same 10-15 people, all of which disagree with us on alliance limit / support planet rules. Same bunch also resorting to name calling, harrashment posts etc.
I dont really see that big of a difference tbh.
Why the heck are those damn cservice guys allowed to abuse their powers for mass-negreps!
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:24   #87
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Its you that are the blatent abusers of PA, forums, C-service that neg rep people you disagree with, along with namecalling, harrashment posts etc. and nothing is beeing done about it.

Strange aint it.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:31   #88
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

No, theres nothing strange here in "real world".
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:43   #89
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Red-, you get neg reps not because you harass others, but because your posts usually are quite shit and makes no sense at all. That's why.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:48   #90
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

No i get neg reps because the same core of about 10 people mass neg rep people they disagree with to try and make thier opinions unvalid in the debate.

Its the same people that resort to harrashment posts and name calling.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:55   #91
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
No i get neg reps because the same core of about 10 people mass neg rep people they disagree with to try and make thier opinions unvalid in the debate.

Its the same people that resort to harrashment posts and name calling.

so now its the negrep? whats next?
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:56   #92
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

What possible reason could you have for even caring about something as anal as forumrep ?
I got lots of them don't see me running around crying about it?
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:59   #93
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Erm, back in the "good old days" there were alot more players so the reason for the successes of the lesser quantity alliances was because most of the big quantity alliances didnt have an active membercore and thus ate itself up. Nowadays the no limit wont lead to that, more to the fact that most active players will flock around the active officer/hc teams around and be a huge effective war machine instead of headless chickens as many of the big all you can recruit alliances back then was.
What makes you think a no-limit won't lead to big alliances with inactive member cores? You should base your posts on facts, not on assumptions taken out of nowhere. Just because the player base has gone down it doesn't mean the ratio of active/inactive players has gone down as well (more active, less inactive).There are still alliances around with large amount of inactives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
There were other factors aswell, the amount of players out of alliance in the earlier rounds compared to the amount of players out of alliance in theese rounds simply is to vastly different to comprehend. The reason people werent in alliances in the earlier rounds was because the playerbase was so big that most out of ally people hadnt heard about the concept of alliances. Thats no longer the case.
That's probably true. I remember it took two rounds before I got into an alliance - because I didn't know I could That's not relevant though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I find the oh, we want to go back to the old days symphony whining to be a tragic ineducation in both what PA is now, and what PA was back then.
What? This is no whining. This is no "I want good ol' PA back". This is Sparta... (couldn't resist)... This is what would make who the 'real' winners (of the alliances) are a lot more interesting instead of just a score in the end of a round. If we did it this way, then alliances who have less members than the top-score alliance could be seen as winners despite they also have less score.

We don't have to remove the alliance limit though. It could very well still exist, but the alliance ranks could very well be hidden.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 11:03   #94
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
No i get neg reps because the same core of about 10 people mass neg rep people they disagree with to try and make thier opinions unvalid in the debate.

Its the same people that resort to harrashment posts and name calling.
I'm not sure if I read your post correctly there, but did you actually mean that YOU make people's points/opinions invalid?

Now stop whining about neg reps - it's no wonder you get so many of them.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 11:13   #95
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
What i am saying is that during the rounds from r19 till now the quality members has become more spread out and the alliance limit is a helping cause. (i wrote more on it earlier scroll up).
Top groups divide their players into different alliances to avoid incoming?
I don't think alliancelimits are doing any good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-
alliance limit sure does help nicely on the close race

Its great!
Would be better to have a clear winner than all top5 with similar score.


Quote:
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The alliance limits are a farce, as they no longer reflect true dominance of the game.
Yes!
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 11:42   #96
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

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Originally Posted by Nadar
I'm not sure if I read your post correctly there
No once again you didnt manage to read it correctly.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 11:59   #97
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

You should learn how to word yourself properly so people won't have to guess what you mean, Red-. That's not an insult, it's an advice - though I don't care how you perceive it.
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Unread 9 Aug 2007, 11:27   #98
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

My 2 cents worth is that a limit higher than 50 is not needed. If you have skill, you don't need numbers.

Better yet, remove alliances from in-game completely.
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Unread 9 Aug 2007, 11:30   #99
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Re: The alliance limit and its impact on the rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo
remove alliances from in-game completely.
Now that would be fun Would opt for a much more dynamic round.
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