Planetarion Forums - How long does it normally take to learn another langauge similar to your own?

Nodrog · 6 Dec 2003, 23:16

By 'similar' I mean in the way something like french or german is similar to english (as opposed to chinese or arabic or something), and by 'learn' I mean to the stage of being able to read literature in the language comfortably. The method of learning wouldnt be immersion, but classes/reading/tapes/whatever.

Over 2 years?

BesigedB · 6 Dec 2003, 23:19

i had 4 years of german classes and don't remember a thing

madi · 6 Dec 2003, 23:19

depends how hard to try and your aptitude

what you want to learn?

W · 6 Dec 2003, 23:21

A lifetime. No, really.

Nodrog · 6 Dec 2003, 23:21

oh yeah, high school language classes dont count, for obvious reasons.

madi - german.

Nodrog · 6 Dec 2003, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by W

A lifetime. No, really.

I defined what I meant by 'to have learned', lets not be pedantic here.

W · 6 Dec 2003, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I defined what I meant by 'to have learned', lets not be pedantic here.

Sorry, I didn't even read your post properly.

I still think it will vary wildly. From few months to years.

One of my flatmates is british, moved here due to norwegian gf, still speaks it horribly after living here a year.

madi · 6 Dec 2003, 23:23

german, why?

not a very commercial choice
met some pretty little german chick?

Nodrog · 6 Dec 2003, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by madi

german, why?

not a very commercial choice
met some pretty little german chick?

To read stuff, as hinted at in my original post.

Nodrog · 6 Dec 2003, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by W

Sorry, I didn't even read your post properly.

I still think it will vary wildly. From few months to years.

You arent very helpful

W · 6 Dec 2003, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

You arent very helpful

Tell me what you want me to say and I'll say it.

Bunga · 6 Dec 2003, 23:26

With total immersion, an English speaker could learn tolerable German in half a year. Without it, but still applying himself, you could maybe get through a tough book after half a year. For the "tolerable" status, maybe one and a half years?

But in Nod's case... ten years?

wu_trax · 7 Dec 2003, 00:11

if you put some effort in it, a year or less.
and it somewhat depends on what you plan to read. some things written before 1900 even i can hardly understand.

Zar · 7 Dec 2003, 00:55

depends on various factors:

1) the gender of the person: females tend to be better at learning languages than males
2) the person: not all people are good at learning languages
3) the language : some languages are harder to learn initially, and some harder to speak fluently (i.e french is supposed to be harder to learn than english initially, however due to its structured format unlike english, it is easier to speak it fluently)

and probably other various reasons

Zar

Nodrog · 7 Dec 2003, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by wu_trax

if you put some effort in it, a year or less.
and it somewhat depends on what you plan to read. some things written before 1900 even i can hardly understand.

nietzsche mainly, but some other things too.

SPQR · 7 Dec 2003, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

however due to its structured format unlike english, it is easier to speak it fluently)

Not really 8[

Weeks · 7 Dec 2003, 01:27

depends on the person.
and how much effort is put in.
Using decent (to you) materials i'd say around a year.

Locate some Pimsleur courses, all audio. They are the best.
On an unrelated note, i hear Shazeaza and BitTorrent are good file-sharing programs.
Michel Thomas' courses (again all audio) are also excellent to get stared, he does all the major western european languages.
Pimsleur do courses on everything.

Nodrog · 7 Dec 2003, 01:28

I got told it was pretty pointless to learn languages purely from books/audio, and that lessons/classes were pretty much essential. Is this accurate?

Bunga · 7 Dec 2003, 01:31

Books, audio and TV are enough, if you also get the chance to speak it sometimes. Lessons/classes pretty much suck.

Nodrog · 7 Dec 2003, 01:32

But I dont think I know any german speakers

JonnyBGood · 7 Dec 2003, 01:42

Learn basic sentence structure of the language (8 weeks if you apply yourself fully, probably 24 if you don't) and how to recognise certain types of words (2 weeks or 4). Read regularly and don't read books in other languages for about a month, maybe two as it depends on your aptitude for reading in different languages and how many other languages you've learned the basics of. I guess in six months you'd be able to do it.

PS lessons and classes aren't essential unless you can't apply yourself outside of that context.

Weeks · 7 Dec 2003, 01:43

Voice chat on the internet.
Yahoo Messenger does something.

edit, good resources.
Books that dedicate one page to English the other page to whatever.
BBC language programs
BBC and the Guardian website.
Forums.
http://www.champs-elysees.com/
And the things i already mentioned.

Dilly_D · 7 Dec 2003, 04:20

just for the record, I do not consider german to be anything near similar to english

lokken · 7 Dec 2003, 05:20

I learned German for 7 years up to A level, and could read quite a bit of literature, with the odd bit of help from a dictionary.

I'm sure you could do it in less time if you were 'focused' on German though. German is actually not as difficult most people like to claim it is (it's easier than French imo). classes are essential, a good textbook (with audio excercises to go with it) and a grammar book are always helpful.

People claim going to Germany helps a lot - although that's more the case if you are staying there for a while as opposed to a holiday. If you do end up going to Germany, go to Berlin, because Berlin is

Classes are essential imo, as otherwise there will be no one to correct/help you when you go wrong.

Dante Hicks · 7 Dec 2003, 05:28

Since you go to a Uni without (undoubtedly) numerous foriegn-language speakers, you can put up one of those faggy cards asking for people to have "language exchange lessons" or something.

Someone at my work (who also does the same course as me) is advertising for a conversational partner (or whatever it's called) to help her with Japanese at Uni. Obviously that mainly helps in spoken word environments, but I'm sure it all helps.

German isn't very difficult to read on a basic level (from what I can recall) but something technical, or just poorly written (*cough* Nietzsche) will probably be a nightmare.

wu_trax · 7 Dec 2003, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

nietzsche mainly, but some other things too.

then you probably need more than a year. he writes somewhat 'complicated', at least thats what i think.

Quote:

I got told it was pretty pointless to learn languages purely from books/audio, and that lessons/classes were pretty much essential. Is this accurate?

i dont think so. for me lessons / classes were pretty much useless, except for the very basics. i think i picked up most by reading things / watching movies. it probably helps a lot if you use the language though (write / say something).

wu_trax · 7 Dec 2003, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilly_D

just for the record, I do not consider german to be anything near similar to english

i learned english and TRYED to learn french in school and i have to say that german and english are quite similar. there are some things that make english unique within european langauges and these things probably make it more difficult for a native english speaker to learn another euopean langauge than the other way around.

mbushell · 7 Dec 2003, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog

oh yeah, high school language classes dont count, for obvious reasons.

a girl i know is fluent in french (can easily read a french novel) after 2 years of high school french lessons, it's really just how much work you put into it and how willing you are to learn. after my 5 years i can say 'bonjor' and spell it worng :/

wu_trax · 7 Dec 2003, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Nodrog if you were dedicated it would take you about 4 months to learnt to read a language (you would still need the dictionary for random nouns) but you would be able to read it like you read english. To learn to speak takes much longer.

i doubt that. reading something in a foreign language is never any way like reading it in your own. i still have trouble with some texts in english (although i have to admit i never put much effort into learning english. well, its enough for here and to watch some movies, thats all i ever needed)

Obliterate · 7 Dec 2003, 11:42

I'm sorry, but there's no way you'd be able to read german literature after only a year of learning the language. Give it 2 years of lessons and a dictionary and you may be able to very slowly work your way through a book, but this would be time consuming and probably boring due to the somewhat complicated sentence structure of german - you would really have to think about each and every sentence carefully in order to fully understand it.

You say you want to be able to read it "comfortably" - well i've been learning german for 5 years and I still need a dictionary for lots of words just in news bulletins, short stories etc.... If you were dedicated and had a good teacher, i'd say you might be able to do it in 3/4 years - no less.

Radical Edward · 7 Dec 2003, 12:13

it really depends Nod. alot on your ability and how much you immerse yourself in it. You are pretty bright, so I suspect that it would come quite easily to you, The main thing is immersion though, the more you use it, the more easilty it comes to you.

MrPeach · 7 Dec 2003, 12:16

I know someone who within one year at uni, not sure at which exact point and the learning process still goes on, could read and speak Italian quite confidently. He was doing French and Italian, after completing 3 a-levels, one in French.

Rids · 7 Dec 2003, 12:40

Sue the americans, if it wasnt for them you'd be speaking German now!

Ole Lukoe · 7 Dec 2003, 18:52

here is some keys
1. Learn Alphabet
2. Get some booke in German language (something for the kids with pictures and stuff)
3. Get dictionary
3. Start translating every single word in English and try put sentances together
4. You will know basics in a month

on the scale of English the easiest and anya Asian/Arabic language is the hardest one, German language is one of the hard ones to learn. I spend 6 years at school day after day learning German and I only can count and say my name in tha language

Good luck

vampire_lestat · 7 Dec 2003, 19:23

evedently that says something about how focused you were. If your good at that kind of thing i'd have thought about a year to learn to read a language, assuming you tried bloody hard.

Bloomers III · 7 Dec 2003, 19:27

i learnt german for 4 years and the most i could say was about where i want to go on holiday, and all i remember now is how to say i want a hamburger. I would say it would take me n years, where n tends to infinity. i am rubbish at them. ALSO why do i need to learn another langauge? i speak english silly

vampire_lestat · 7 Dec 2003, 19:29

english is the only language that matters.

Jennifer · 7 Dec 2003, 20:41

I did French for GCSE, about 2 1/2 hours a week in term time, but haven't really done anything except a visit Belgium for a week since I stopped having French lessons nearly 5 years ago. I bought a copy of Harry Potter in French on the way back from Belgium and could read it without a dictionary with approximately 70% comprehension. Reading parts twice helped tho. They call muggles 'les moldus'. Hoho.

(Edit: That's without reading it in English first, duh...)

KoeN · 8 Dec 2003, 01:36

i was once dirty-dancing with some portuguese girl, when her gf pushes me aside and started to shout at me. (damn lesbians).
i shouted back "fodete ai puta, sua piraña". the look on their faces...

oh and on-topic: it depends.

I am Idler · 8 Dec 2003, 10:56

I read english, swedish, danish and norwegian without any trouble whatsoever.

I am a genious tho.

(although I do know how to offend people in 11 different languages, which is quite pld.)