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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 19:49   #101
Mzyxptlk
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Re: r28 predictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
you are a dreamer exblade, as bc of Hidden Agenda for 5 rounds i can say that everytime a big ally approached us was solely out of selfgain.
If they approached us at all during a round.

And even smaller allies have their own agenda, you can't approach a small ally in the final week to help you out when they are battling for their own spot and expect a positive response.
Or maybe you could be pro-active, rather than sit in your lazy chair complaining about how the big guys never talk to you.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 21:02   #102
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Re: r28 predictions

#1 1up
#2 Angels
#3 SiN
#4 Mistu
#5 WP


theres a prediction for ya
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:44   #103
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Or maybe you could be pro-active, rather than sit in your lazy chair complaining about how the big guys never talk to you.
why should we care about the goals of any big ally, and i wasn't complaining that "big guys" never talk to us. Was just stating it as a fact that we alway get approached in the last 10 days to help some "big ally" bash another one. its good for them but how would that help us in any way?
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:45   #104
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Re: r28 predictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
why should we care about the goals of any big ally, and i wasn't complaining that "big guys" never talk to us. Was just stating it as a fact that we alway get approached in the last 10 days to help some "big ally" bash another one. its good for them but how would that help us in any way?
XP from landing on big planets? Something exciting to do at the end of the round? Improving your military capabilities for the future?
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:53   #105
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
XP from landing on big planets? Something exciting to do at the end of the round? Improving your military capabilities for the future?
Don't worry we can land big targets without the help of a top 5 alliance,
and any targets offered to us are usually crap anyway, and often just serve as a destraction so the big ally can land.
we have enough excitement defending our own spot to, and we are improving on our own every round.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:53   #106
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Re: r28 predictions

#1 Killmarks botarmy!
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:54   #107
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Re: r28 predictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
Don't worry we can land big targets without the help of a top 5 alliance,
and any targets offered to us are usually crap anyway, and often just serve as a destraction so the big ally can land.
we have enough excitement defending our own spot to, and we are improving on our own every round.
Good job missing the point man.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:55   #108
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Re: r28 predictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
why should we care about the goals of any big ally, and i wasn't complaining that "big guys" never talk to us. Was just stating it as a fact that we alway get approached in the last 10 days to help some "big ally" bash another one. its good for them but how would that help us in any way?
Where did I suggest you should care about the goals of big alliances? Also JBG's post.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:57   #109
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Good job missing the point man.
are there any other points cloaked in yur statement, pls enlighten me
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 22:59   #110
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Re: r28 predictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
you are a dreamer exblade, as bc of Hidden Agenda for 5 rounds i can say that everytime a big ally approached us was solely out of selfgain.
If they approached us at all during a round.

And even smaller allies have their own agenda, you can't approach a small ally in the final week to help you out when they are battling for their own spot and expect a positive response.
As far as i remember all smaller and medium alliances was approached by Denial to be included quite early, but was usually turned down because they didnt want to do any effort.. and that the targets were too big and they were scared to crash.

so really the "problem" is that the smaller allies make less effort into the game and so on..
the agenda is totally different!
im fine with that, just dont complain about not getting included as you cant sit around and wait for the white elephant to ride in and make your day
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 23:02   #111
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Re: r28 predictions

again im not complaining about not getting approached,
am more stating as a fact on how and when big allies approach us and for what means.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 23:19   #112
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Re: r28 predictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
CT and ND are mentioned as one because it's expected Ascendancy will be the favorite for round win. As such, it makes sense that the number 2 and 3 work together, and to mention them together in threads such as this one. CT and ND have been known to formed long lasting pacts, notably in the last 2 of the 3 rounds ND won.

I'm not sure why you're talking about "blame", you make it look like they're doing something illegal, which is obviously not the case.

The rest of your post seems utter bollocks as well. ND didn't nap the universe last round and I see no reason why ND would want a fight with CT if it's not very clear they're running away with the round. And even then, many alliances demonstrate irrational loyalty when it comes to naps (NoX, anyone?).
Yes Mz"#%"& , you are clearly right. You really dont know shit about how ND works since you never had anything to do with them you never fought an unfair war against them, planned raids against them and organised defence against them. And Denial tools was pretty damn accurate so we had a pretty good overview on what ally had incs from where, every night

And i didnt say ND wouldnt start a war against CT, as they surely will when they realise that CT is a lot stronger. They will bring in their "allies" and nap the universe to fight CT down, and we will see something similar to what Denial experienced. This will lead to a war with everyone except Asc involved again and this time i think Asc will keep it together long enough to get an easy win thanks to NDs way of playin this game..

when it comes to using the word blame im pretty sure everyone who actually pays attention to the game will know what i mean. i clearly used that word on purpose to make a point.

so update us all on where you take your godlike information to support your views on calling my post bollocks Mz&"#%"#¤. or is this just another post to mark your "territory"
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 23:22   #113
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Re: r28 predictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
again im not complaining about not getting approached,
am more stating as a fact on how and when big allies approach us and for what means.
Denial was the biggest and we made fair offers. We also approached you quite early and not the last 7-10 days of the game
If you want to work earlier with top allies you need to up yourself to their level for a bit, and dont expect them to slow everything down to adjust your schedule. We certainly did not lack any interest for working together with smaller alliances, but most just lacked the effort to keep up
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 23:41   #114
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Re: r28 predictions

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or is this just another post to mark your "territory"
If you prefer I can pee all over the place. This way is more hygienic. And more entertaining too, if I have to be honest. The posting, not the pissing, obviously.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 23:45   #115
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Re: r28 predictions

well you are arguing over something where you have nothing to back you up with. you cant expect me to just let you sail away with your ego intact when you clearly have nothing to do in this "arguement"
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 23:50   #116
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Re: r28 predictions

You did a good job, my ego is completely shattered. I may cry.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Aug 2008, 23:55   #117
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Re: r28 predictions

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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 06:15   #118
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Re: r28 predictions

/me fluffles HeimdallR
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 07:29   #119
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by exblade View Post
#1 1up
#2 Angels
#3 SiN
#4 Mistu
#5 WP
Pretty good guess! I'll go with it too
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 07:32   #120
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Re: r28 predictions

I have to agree with HeimdallR that Exblade is a dreamer but for some different reasons.
The little allies will never team up because they're too busy fighting eachother in the t12-5 ranks.
Not that these ranks make **** all difference really but...
Personally I'd rather finish 15th and made a difference than finish 5th by doing nothing.

The problem with a "big" ally asking a smaller ally for some help is that the smaller ally in 75% of the cases flat out refuses without even hearing them out.
- They don't want to be "flak" (what's wrong with being flak anyway?)
- They don't want to get involved
- They don't see the good points in the suggestion
- ...

Usually comes down to uninspired leadership, unwilling to risk a 6th or 7th place (lol?) for potentially having had a hand in the outcome of the round.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 08:43   #121
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Re: r28 predictions

i am a dreamer i know....
ya never know...
hopefully we'll see some sort of change eventually
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 08:54   #122
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Re: r28 predictions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem

The problem with a "big" ally asking a smaller ally for some help is that the smaller ally in 75% of the cases flat out refuses without even hearing them out.
- They don't want to be "flak" (what's wrong with being flak anyway?)
- They don't want to get involved
- They don't see the good points in the suggestion
- ...

Usually comes down to uninspired leadership, unwilling to risk a 6th or 7th place (lol?) for potentially having had a hand in the outcome of the round.

you seem to think because an alliance is smaller the players within dont care about the size/score/position of their planets !


Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem
- They don't want to be "flak" (what's wrong with being flak anyway?)
do u have a week for the reply ?
the most common answer would be, I dont want to be used and then ignored or dropped because i have been used up.

you dont seem to have your head totally up your arse because you do see some things from the smaller alliances point of view, you just dont seem to understand it.

How you are treated whilst being the support group is very important, and most of the time you get treated like the monkey on the organ grinders barrel.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 09:36   #123
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by Mistwraith View Post
you seem to think because an alliance is smaller the players within dont care about the size/score/position of their planets !
And you don't believe that they can achieve a higher rank when they have a big ally supporting them / them supporting a bigger ally?


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Originally Posted by Mistwraith View Post
do u have a week for the reply ?
the most common answer would be, I dont want to be used and then ignored or dropped because i have been used up.
That is the standard reply isn't it?
And that reply is created by fear.
Usually alliances between 2 allies only last aslong as the 2 alliances have a common goal. That common goal might be different for the 2 allies: the big ally wanting to take #1 position or take out a competitor, the smaller one looking to make massive gains with xp, easy lands because most of the defence will go against the big ally.
It's only normal that when a common goal no longer exists that the 2 allies go their own seperate way again, possibly keeping a NAP.
Alliances between a bigger ally and a smaller ally do not mean that the bigger ally should "babysit" (no offence meant just can't find a better word) the smaller one.

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Originally Posted by Mistwraith View Post
you dont seem to have your head totally up your arse because you do see some things from the smaller alliances point of view, you just dont seem to understand it.
You don't seem to understand that I've spend most my time in PA in a low/medium tier ally and only joining a top one sporadicly.
I think I know pretty well how things are handled in all level of alliances and yes, sometimes I don't seem to understand why they do what they do when they could be doing something more meaningfull / valuable.

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Originally Posted by Mistwraith View Post
How you are treated whilst being the support group is very important, and most of the time you get treated like the monkey on the organ grinders barrel.
I think most of the times the group that supports has good intentions with the group they are supporting. Afterall it is in their own gain to keep those people friendly and on their side.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 09:54   #124
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
are there any other points cloaked in yur statement, pls enlighten me
By teaming up you can hit even bigger planets with more roids for more xp! And I'd imagine most people would find taking part in something meaningful a lot more helpful. Your point that other alliances only approach you out of self-interest is quite obviously true (in fact you'd need to be retarded to behave otherwise), but that doesn't mean it's still not in your interest to take part. Two rounds ago when ND/ToF and asc teamed up for a few nights towards the end we (as in ascendancy with what we felt was the most to gain) gave away quite a bit at times, we hit NoX as often as we hit denial as a group, we hit vgn to keep ToF happy etc. You can quite often find that in certain times both sides can gain from teaming up. It's just polyticks man.

Quote:
If you want to work earlier with top allies you need to up yourself to their level for a bit, and dont expect them to slow everything down to adjust your schedule. We certainly did not lack any interest for working together with smaller alliances, but most just lacked the effort to keep up
Quote:
Yes Mz"#%"& , you are clearly right. You really dont know shit about how ND works since you never had anything to do with them you never fought an unfair war against them, planned raids against them and organised defence against them. And Denial tools was pretty damn accurate so we had a pretty good overview on what ally had incs from where, every night
Posts like these, the stuff I've seen on the pawiki put up by denial, the eorc last round...please stop over-rating yourselves. It's getting pretty cringe-worthy.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 17:02   #125
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Posts like these, the stuff I've seen on the pawiki put up by denial, the eorc last round...please stop over-rating yourselves. It's getting pretty cringe-worthy.
Saying bottom tier allies couldnt keep up with a top tier ally and that our universe tracker on our tools (which i do believe are some of the best tools in PA) is accurate, is hardly over-rating ourselves. Denial was the best alliance last round, this showed in the end rankings, whats there to over-rate? Feel free to disagree and suggest a more worthy winner. And yes, we didnt put on a complete sideshow Asc style at the EORC, i have to say i was as disappointed as the rest of the community. And whats wrong with our PA wiki?

On Topic (tho slightly off?): I'm sure Orbit felt pretty happy with the relationship we had with them for the second half of last round. We didnt dictate to them for our selfish gains, we gave them a selection of good targets to chose from and in the end they can take credit (atleast from us) for helping us to our victory and feel like they made a difference to the rounds outcome.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 18:29   #126
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Re: r28 predictions

1- Ct
2- Nd
3- Asc
4- Tgv
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 18:46   #127
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Saying bottom tier allies couldnt keep up with a top tier ally and that our universe tracker on our tools (which i do believe are some of the best tools in PA) is accurate, is hardly over-rating ourselves. Denial was the best alliance last round, this showed in the end rankings, whats there to over-rate? Feel free to disagree and suggest a more worthy winner. And yes, we didnt put on a complete sideshow Asc style at the EORC, i have to say i was as disappointed as the rest of the community. And whats wrong with our PA wiki?
Have some dignity man. Please.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 18:50   #128
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by Mistwraith View Post
you seem to think because an alliance is smaller the players within dont care about the size/score/position of their planets !




do u have a week for the reply ?
the most common answer would be, I dont want to be used and then ignored or dropped because i have been used up.

you dont seem to have your head totally up your arse because you do see some things from the smaller alliances point of view, you just dont seem to understand it.

How you are treated whilst being the support group is very important, and most of the time you get treated like the monkey on the organ grinders barrel.

don't need to add anything to this
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 18:51   #129
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Re: r28 predictions

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/me fluffles HeimdallR

/me humps exblades leg
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 20:09   #130
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Have some dignity man. Please.
Ok ur right. Saying the #1 ally is the best ally is being undifnified, clearly the ranking system in PA is 100% flawed and it being there is totally pointless. Sorry. Ascendancy were the best alliance last round and are the best alliance in PA history. If i keep sucking on ur e-cock maybe u'll value my opinion, or even, facts.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 20:15   #131
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Ok ur right. Saying the #1 ally is the best ally is being undifnified, clearly the ranking system in PA is 100% flawed and it being there is totally pointless. Sorry. Ascendancy were the best alliance last round and are the best alliance in PA history. If i keep sucking on ur e-cock maybe u'll value my opinion, or even, facts.
Yeah if you can find a post, or even irc conversation, where I describe ascendancy in remotely similar terms I'll accept your point. Face it man, you won by 2 million points (?) in the end. This was hardly a triumph of memorable proportions. You won, you were alright, it was pretty much the same as any of the last five odd rounds. Get over yourself.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 20:20   #132
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Yeah if you can find a post, or even irc conversation, where I describe ascendancy in remotely similar terms I'll accept your point. Face it man, you won by 2 million points (?) in the end. This was hardly a triumph of memorable proportions. You won, you were alright, it was pretty much the same as any of the last five odd rounds. Get over yourself.
Whats wrong with calling Denial the best ally last round when it won. There's a ranking system for a reason. This is my only point.

edit: Infact this was much different to the last 5 rounds since the winning alliance has usually been the one who avoids incoming the most and not attracts it.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 20:26   #133
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Whats wrong with calling Denial the best ally last round when it won. There's a ranking system for a reason. This is my only point.

edit: Infact this was much different to the last 5 rounds since the winning alliance has usually been the one who avoids incoming the most and not attracts it.
I wouldn't describe any alliance last round, or any of the last five as the "best". The winning margins at the end just don't justify it.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 20:38   #134
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Re: r28 predictions

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I wouldn't describe any alliance last round, or any of the last five as the "best". The winning margins at the end just don't justify it.
Lets just not declare winners of a round if the margins arent emphatic enough.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 20:38   #135
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I wouldn't describe any alliance last round, or any of the last five as the "best". The winning margins at the end just don't justify it.
Were you in any of these alliances btw?
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 20:41   #136
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Re: r28 predictions

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Were you in any of these alliances btw?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venox
Lets just not declare winners of a round if the margins arent emphatic enough.
Sure, I'm down with that. Christ knows we'd never have done it pre-pax and we could have always just added up scores then.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 21:12   #137
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Re: r28 predictions

haha.

Denial had twice as much incs as any other alliance and still we won.

so really winning by 10 or a million points last round doesnt really matter because it was the most deserved victory for many many rounds.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 21:15   #138
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Re: r28 predictions

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Have some dignity man. Please.
keep yur own words in mind, and don't downplay any victory that was made by any alliance over the last 5 rounds.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 21:17   #139
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
haha.

Denial had twice as much incs as any other alliance and still we won.

so really winning by 10 or a million points last round doesnt really matter because it was the most deserved victory for many many rounds.
Towards the end of the round when we were deciding who we'd help out I remember thinking "denial have been alright this round, let's help out them". So your mighty victory came down to what I felt like on a random thursday. Truly awe-inspiring stuff man, would you like me to applaud you off the stage?

I'm downplaying my own alliance's victory HeimdallR, I think if I'm willing to do that I've earned the right to critique the victories of others.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 21:42   #140
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Re: r28 predictions

JBG... when Denial was so superior last round we started getting pounded for weeks with ridiculous incs.

thats how the game always is. allies gang up for different reasons like xp-whoring, roids, alliance-ranking, desire to be #1 ally, get good player rankings etc etc..

what im saying is that even though we had more incs then any other ally for many rounds, maybe in PA history, we still managed to get #1.

how we won is not the issue here and i could beat you down in ur shoes with a shovel of facts to prove to you WHY we won, and its not dedicated to ASC
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 22:00   #141
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I'm downplaying my own alliance's victory HeimdallR, I think if I'm willing to do that I've earned the right to critique the victories of others.
well not like im going to be able to stop you anyway
/me sends the PA gestapo after JBG
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 22:00   #142
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Re: r28 predictions

How you won is the issue (that's pretty much what we were talking about). It was a marginal affair which depended on a huge number of factors. If we ran last round over with even minute variations the end result could easily have been different.

Your fascination with how much incoming your alliance got is merely a sign of how utterly deluded you are about how a round of PA should best be played.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 22:16   #143
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Re: r28 predictions

how much incs an alliance has is actually quite important in this discussion..

Denial was the best alliance last round, and if i said anything else i would be a disgrace to the members who played for us last round. it was how we worked together as an alliance that gave us victory! the bits here and there you talk about played a small role in our win, but considering the margins were so small last round we know that taking away a few of those bits would push us back to #2..

but dont you think that if we start saying that "if denial didnt have this and that they wouldnt have won" then cant we easily say the same about ct,asc,nd ?
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 22:19   #144
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Re: r28 predictions

Indeed we could. Why my point has been that claiming any alliance has been the best alliance for the last few rounds is very silly.

And how much incs an alliance gets reflects in two ways on you. It reflects poor meta-tactical play and poor politics just as much as it reflects your alliance's ability to survive incoming.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 22:26   #145
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Indeed we could. Why my point has been that claiming any alliance has been the best alliance for the last few rounds is very silly.

And how much incs an alliance gets reflects in two ways on you. It reflects poor meta-tactical play and poor politics just as much as it reflects your alliance's ability to survive incoming.
i take it you are claiming Denial for moral victory here?

I only said Denial was the best alliance last round. That is also the reason for our amount of incs, which we must have handled pretty damn well considering we survived!!

so thankyou JBG for finally admitting that Denial can claim moral victory

i hereby do just that on behalf of Denial!
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 22:32   #146
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Re: r28 predictions

I never said you shouldn't claim victory. After all even one of the retards in the special olympics stumbles over the finishing line first.
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 22:40   #147
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Re: r28 predictions

They still won though didn't they? does that not make them the best currently till somebody proves otherwise?
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 22:51   #148
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Re: r28 predictions

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I never said you shouldn't claim victory. After all even one of the retards in the special olympics stumbles over the finishing line first.
But you tried saying we couldnt claim moral victory which is more valueable then just a victory!
We did stumble over the finishline crippled! thats so true! And thats what made our victory so much sweeter!
I couldnt care less if you compare the game to the olympics or paralympics, being #1 only means the others were even more retarded then us!
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 23:04   #149
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Re: r28 predictions

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But you tried saying we couldnt claim moral victory which is more valueable then just a victory!
No I didn't. Who's posts are you reading?
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We did stumble over the finishline crippled! thats so true! And thats what made our victory so much sweeter!
You'll have to excuse me for believing if an unqualifiedly best alliance won a round of PA they wouldn't stumble over the finish crippled.
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I couldnt care less if you compare the game to the olympics or paralympics, being #1 only means the others were even more retarded then us!
Ah, that was my point though. This is a game and as such our quality is only best discovered when we compete against genuine quality. Which is what I find so depressing and interminably dull these days.



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They still won though didn't they? does that not make them the best currently till somebody proves otherwise?
The best at score accumulation in a seven week round lasting from whenever it began until whenever it ended sure. Is that all we're really looking for though?
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Unread 12 Aug 2008, 23:12   #150
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Re: r28 predictions

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Towards the end of the round when we were deciding who we'd help out I remember thinking "denial have been alright this round, let's help out them". So your mighty victory came down to what I felt like on a random thursday. Truly awe-inspiring stuff man, would you like me to applaud you off the stage?
to me that looks like you think your allianced played a big role in "letting" Denial win the round, which is not the case. you played a minor role and were just one of those "bits" i talked about. the main effort, 99% of the effort if not more was our members.


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The best at score accumulation in a seven week round lasting from whenever it began until whenever it ended sure. Is that all we're really looking for though?
So what exactly are we looking for here if not the ability to produce the most score together as an ally? Behind our score there is so much more effort into the game then any other ally last round, so if you wish to look beyond the numbers then Denial are an even bigger winner in my eyes.
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