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19 Aug 2004, 03:44
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#1
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Defence
there should be planatary based defence, like anti-ship turrets, or planatary defence screens, or ships that are extreamly powerfull (but at a high price) that are not FTL caplble, but they can attack all ships. or the planet based ones are built like regular buildings, so you have 2 wait 4 it 2 finish b4 u can build another building.
What do u think??
Last edited by Paul_Atreides; 19 Aug 2004 at 03:53.
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19 Aug 2004, 05:30
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#2
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pe0n
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kindom of the Netherlands
Posts: 1,347
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Re: Defence
This game had Planetary Defence Systems in the past that were not mobile. It made attacking less attracktive and made it a lot more painfull if you got attacked (since you could not send them out). It was removed with reason, but you never know for next round.
The fact that people like to be able to better defend themselves against attacks is understandable, but it makes it harder to attack as well, making the game less fun. The ability to attack (and send ships to defend others) is crucial to the game.
__________________
round 5 noob
round 6 noob
round 7 noob: rank 6.198 25:20:25 - VoC member
round 8 noob: rank 4.112 7:2:3 - TFD member
round 9 rank 941 23:1:9 - TFD HC
round 9.5 rank 860 22:7:3 - TFD HC
round 10: rank unknown (was #1 for a while) 5:2:5 - Vengeance pe0n
round 10.5: rank 683 19:10:2 - VGN member
round 11: rank 138 8:8:4 - VsN member
round 12: rank 515 - VGN 'special attack officer' -> jumped ship to Rock
round 13: rank 85: NoS
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20 Aug 2004, 02:19
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#3
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
It should still be at lest avalible so ppl who dont mind, if u dont want to risk it, dont build it!
BTW,
bo u get salvage if 1 of ur buildings is destroyer?
Last edited by Paul_Atreides; 20 Aug 2004 at 02:24.
Reason: text
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20 Aug 2004, 06:26
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#4
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pe0n
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kindom of the Netherlands
Posts: 1,347
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Re: Defence
No, there is no salvage for lost constructions.
__________________
round 5 noob
round 6 noob
round 7 noob: rank 6.198 25:20:25 - VoC member
round 8 noob: rank 4.112 7:2:3 - TFD member
round 9 rank 941 23:1:9 - TFD HC
round 9.5 rank 860 22:7:3 - TFD HC
round 10: rank unknown (was #1 for a while) 5:2:5 - Vengeance pe0n
round 10.5: rank 683 19:10:2 - VGN member
round 11: rank 138 8:8:4 - VsN member
round 12: rank 515 - VGN 'special attack officer' -> jumped ship to Rock
round 13: rank 85: NoS
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20 Aug 2004, 16:06
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#5
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
No, there is no salvage for lost constructions.
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nuts,
what about the avalibility thing??
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20 Aug 2004, 16:21
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#6
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Jolt's best friend
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
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Re: Defence
pds made the game stagnate quicker. it was also a newbie trap.
both bad points, so imo it should be left on the trash pile
-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
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20 Aug 2004, 17:13
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#7
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
how is it a newbie trap
Last edited by Paul_Atreides; 20 Aug 2004 at 17:13.
Reason: puctuation
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20 Aug 2004, 17:40
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#8
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Jolt's best friend
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
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Re: Defence
newbies see that they're 'good' for defence
newbies build them
newbies get attacked by a fleet twice their size
newbies can't move their pds
newbies get pwned
newbie trap
-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
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20 Aug 2004, 23:34
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#9
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Most unimportant guy...
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kvinesdal
Posts: 1,393
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Re: Defence
I could agree on a construction functioning as defence. Maybe just Turret Defence. But it should suck
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When we discover the centre of the universe, alot of people will be shocked and dissapointed to know that they are not it!
Retired
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20 Aug 2004, 23:57
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#10
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
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21 Aug 2004, 00:33
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#11
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Jolt's best friend
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
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Re: Defence
i suppose they'd act as some form of flak. however don't some of the other buildings work on the percentage of buildings you have of them? given that, the pds would be awfully expensive given the other required buildings as well
-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
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21 Aug 2004, 00:53
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#12
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
if u dont want it, DON'T BUY IT!!!!!!!!!
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21 Aug 2004, 12:08
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#13
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Zhil's Monkeyboy
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 125
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Re: Defence
PDS goes one of 2 ways, it's either amazingly effecient in comparison to ships (how it should be) but that favours big players who can afford PDS fortresses to defend their rocks (meaning they can attack far more freely than without).
OR
It's amazingly crap and no-one but utter newbies invest in it.
Therefore it's of no use to anyone :|
Nova
__________________
Chemical Brothers - Loops of [1up] - Music to MO to...
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21 Aug 2004, 12:18
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#14
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pe0n
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kindom of the Netherlands
Posts: 1,347
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Re: Defence
If you make it a construction then I think you got it where it's needed. Big players won't bother as it will reduce their security and research bonus. And for them building a finance centre gives loads of resources, which can be converted in a lot more firepower if they build ships. Smaller players who get their constructions bashed all the time will have a use for them though. For them it's cheap firepower.
If you make it a weak target all type of construction, it could compensate a bit for bad fleet compositions. It can be extremely usefull for zik and cath, who now can't kill big ships.
__________________
round 5 noob
round 6 noob
round 7 noob: rank 6.198 25:20:25 - VoC member
round 8 noob: rank 4.112 7:2:3 - TFD member
round 9 rank 941 23:1:9 - TFD HC
round 9.5 rank 860 22:7:3 - TFD HC
round 10: rank unknown (was #1 for a while) 5:2:5 - Vengeance pe0n
round 10.5: rank 683 19:10:2 - VGN member
round 11: rank 138 8:8:4 - VsN member
round 12: rank 515 - VGN 'special attack officer' -> jumped ship to Rock
round 13: rank 85: NoS
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21 Aug 2004, 14:35
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#15
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PA Ancient
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ventnor, Isle Of Wight
Posts: 1,060
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Re: Defence
Personally i didnt see PDS as sucking.. there was a time when it was once very strong.. plus ppl with hardly any ships could kill there attackers.. they cud wait till eta 4 then build loads of PDS and ofc then they attacker wudnt of calced that.. that was always funny to see
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Played: Round 1-13. PA Team: Round 13-17. The Return: Round 18-19. PA Team: Round 20. Return.. Again: Round 21-37 Retired: Round 38 Returned: Round 39-45 Retired: Round 45 Returned: Round: 56
Ever been attacked by a p3nguin? You get left a bit black and white!
p3nguin Founder
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21 Aug 2004, 14:49
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#16
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fanboy
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 492
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Re: Defence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
Personally i didnt see PDS as sucking.. there was a time when it was once very strong.. plus ppl with hardly any ships could kill there attackers.. they cud wait till eta 4 then build loads of PDS and ofc then they attacker wudnt of calced that.. that was always funny to see
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it sucked after it stopped firing first.
When it fired first... r3 laser turrets anyone?
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FOUNDER OF THE OFFICIAL ASCENDANCY LADY GAGA FAN CLUB
ASCENDANCY DEMOLITION MAN
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21 Aug 2004, 16:41
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#17
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
How about giving each building a wapon, albeit a weak, that way u would allways have some defence
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23 Aug 2004, 00:09
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#18
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
I just started playing a simaler game, and they have them,and you can que buildings, thouse are the only reasons that i enjoy it, so if you could just pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees put thous 2 thing in i'ed be all set
Last edited by Paul_Atreides; 23 Aug 2004 at 00:16.
Reason: wups
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23 Aug 2004, 00:30
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#19
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Zhil's Monkeyboy
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 125
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Re: Defence
That depends on the defences in question
Defence as a structure sounds nice...
BUT:
It will force players to routinely include structure hitters in their fleetcomp, which further reduces options for attacks (no one is simply going to sit and take the loss incurred unless they are huge). This means in addition to your lovely defences going *foom* so will your factories, amps, relsabs, etc. Since defence structures would have to add towards the attackers structure kill limit it's going to increase the risk of more critical items being caught in the fire.
OR:
All structures having some sort of defence will simply mean large players can sit back on construction priority and simply whore for even more distorters and sec centers, since then they get scan block / covop immunity AND planetary defence all nicely rolled into one.
Imo PDS in the current game format is utterly unnecessary from a tactical and balance standpoint. In the old game it had a significant deterrent effect, in this one if it's a structure they would have to be some bigass defence structures to be worth looking at, and if they were classed as "immobile" ships they would need init 0 to be even worth considering (as they would be targetted in the same manner as any other ship and could not be run away from their location *hello lancers ripping through my shiny corvettes damn you* ).
Nova
__________________
Chemical Brothers - Loops of [1up] - Music to MO to...
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23 Aug 2004, 00:38
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#20
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
What about planatry shields? to lessen the #of str killed, ore protect roids, ore protect ships lice pods or structures killers? or :?:
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23 Aug 2004, 03:57
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, England
Posts: 235
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Re: Defence
You already have ships that protect your roids
I can understand perhaps some sort of struct protecting ship; being bashed into a pulp and losing all your production capabilities when you've just joined ain't nice. But we don't really need to make rocks harder to get, the easier they are to get, the more fluid teh game is! (End of round PaX absolutely sucked IMO as it was nigh on impossible to roid people!)
One thing I did suggest once was a structure that gives you damage bonuses to your ships at your planet to represent listening posts and command centres that improve the organisation and intel of your fleet. Say a damage improvement of 0.5 or 1% * attackers value/defenders value to represent your ships getting into position quicker, setting up ambushes etc.
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23 Aug 2004, 11:48
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#22
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*idle*
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: SevenSeas, liter or poet name for seven oceans
Posts: 44
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Re: Defence
PDS was more balanced when you could have three rounds of combat. Put down the PDS first round and then roid freely for two more rounds. PDS with one round of combat would have to be balanced in another way. Perhaps slow initiative combined with max % destruction of the PDS, while you can make them not fire by taking them all out.
A kill/stun for all ships perhaps.
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SevenSeas, providing roids for the universe since r2
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23 Aug 2004, 16:54
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#23
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
What if the PDS just disabled the ships, so the attackers wouldent loose ships
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23 Aug 2004, 19:19
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, England
Posts: 235
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Re: Defence
It's interesting, but would be pretty pointless IMO, smaller players who invested in it woudl still get roided just as easily, for even cheaper perhaps, by bigger players.. This does nothing to help the problems that ziks and caths are having if they don't have a good alliance or galaxy to fall back on...
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23 Aug 2004, 21:21
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#25
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YA HYA CHOUHADA!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 32
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Re: Defence
oh well, it was worth a try.
what about the overall idea or ?
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YA HYA CHOUHADA: "Long live the fighters!" The Fedaykin battle cry. Ya (now) in this cry is augmented by the hya form (the ever-extended now). Chouhada (fighters) carries this added eaning of fghters against in justice. There is a distinction in this word that specifies the fighters are not struggling for anything, but are consecreted against a specific thing-that alone.
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15 Sep 2004, 00:42
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#26
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Guest
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Re: Defence
How about if PDS only target roiders and strut killers.
and leave ships for combat.
I would like to see pds back, like ppl have said if u wanna buy it, buy it. if ya dont, dont.
just another option.
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15 Sep 2004, 00:53
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#27
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home wrecker
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
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Re: Defence
PDS would only have been viable if it was equipped with a "hide" option. (if the incoming looks like a butt **** mission you can hide the PDS so it doesn't fire but doesn't get shot at)
it never was...
you *could* make it a ship class with init 0 as long as you hide it, but like others have said making it a structure only encourages structure bashing which is nawty.
there's one other option, but no-one will like it.....
Make PDS invincible and have it always fire, but tie it to % of planet score versus universe average.
ie if you are in the bottom 10% it's all imune if you are at 50% then 50% of it is targetable, and if you are in the top 10% it's all targettable and do that on a sliding scale. (don't quibble on the maths of those % it's a concept not a defined pregression! - the exact numbers would need testing and tweeking) It's an interesting concept to be played with... but I can't see anyone liking it because it would balance things ... oh and PDS would have to fire last in that scenario
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May the Farce be with you...
#pr0nstars - a pimp is for life, not just for christmas
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15 Sep 2004, 02:14
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#28
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Pedantic hypocrite
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Back and to the left
Posts: 1,488
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Re: Defence
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_d
How about if PDS only target roiders and strut killers.
and leave ships for combat.
I would like to see pds back, like ppl have said if u wanna buy it, buy it. if ya dont, dont.
just another option.
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As has been repeated ad inifitum in this thread, here's a big picture that needs to be taken into account.
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I always wanted to be a dancer, but I could never get the shit off my shoes
.......
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15 Sep 2004, 02:59
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#29
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DR Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20
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Re: Defence
/me misses PDS
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15 Sep 2004, 04:17
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#30
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Aria's TeddyBear :p
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Posts: 516
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Re: Defence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
The fact that people like to be able to better defend themselves against attacks is understandable, but it makes it harder to attack as well, making the game less fun. The ability to attack (and send ships to defend others) is crucial to the game.
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it also helps u be more of a team player. having pds only help you never anyone else
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R4 - R7 [Fyre] HC
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R17 Retired
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15 Sep 2004, 22:22
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#31
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Dean
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7
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Re: Defence
Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
pds made the game stagnate quicker. it was also a newbie trap.
both bad points, so imo it should be left on the trash pile
-mist
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Agreed.
__________________
And then at the end of the letter i like to write P.S.- This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated.
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16 Sep 2004, 17:12
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#32
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Angels for life !
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,269
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Re: Defence
Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
newbies see that they're 'good' for defence
newbies build them
newbies get attacked by a fleet twice their size
newbies can't move their pds
newbies get pwned
newbie trap
-mist
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idd, and PDS also brings another way of attacking. There will be kill fleets especially made to kill the PDS, and then the next tick the roid fleet lands.
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FAnG Founder | CEO/HC | Ex Gaming Community Senate
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16 Sep 2004, 18:17
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#33
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.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
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Re: Defence
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledBlade
/me misses PDS
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i bet they were real useful to the alliances you were a HC to.
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16 Sep 2004, 22:13
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#34
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Most unimportant guy...
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kvinesdal
Posts: 1,393
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Re: Defence
Remember Roman Fortress?
__________________
When we discover the centre of the universe, alot of people will be shocked and dissapointed to know that they are not it!
Retired
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16 Sep 2004, 22:37
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#35
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.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
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Re: Defence
lets not forget Game is a fking nub though :(((
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26 Sep 2004, 09:31
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#36
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Defence
Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
newbie trap
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Not quite.
The newbie trap really kicks in when, because they got plastered, they think that they need more defence, then go back to step one :P
that's the real killer
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#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
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"The Cake is a Lie."
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26 Sep 2004, 09:37
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#37
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Defence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
it sucked after it stopped firing first.
When it fired first... r3 laser turrets anyone?
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heh, i liked the plasma turrets more - they would bugger up ghosts etc, so people wouldnt send them and kill all my shippies .
Pity about the cargo flak though, huh.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
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"The Cake is a Lie."
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