[Discuss] player mentoring

[mist]

currently, one of the problems with pa is that newbies trying to get in to the game are isolated, particularly if they don't know anyone in the community. with the odd exception someone comming to the game for the first time is probably going to get bashed in to oblivion. imo, this is bad.

in order to get people to help these players, i think an incentive should be offered. this could be doneby offering an experienced player 5% of a newbie's income, forming a link between the planets. said experienced player would then have an interest in helping the newbie.

i'm aware that this isn't a fully formed idea, the percentage may need changing for example. also, i'm aware that it would require 'ripple changes', like making it possible to look for a mentoree as a mentor and vice versa. ideally it would also involve changes so that the mentorees could join some form of recruitment wing of the alliance their mentor is in.

in order to avoid exploitation of the system, mentorees should have to be small enough so that the mentor can't attack them. there possibly should be other safeguards as well, but i can't think of/remember any at the moment

-mist

[Cochese]

People shouldn't need bribes or bonuses to help new players.

It's in everyone's best interest, and the benefits of it are (or should be) bonus enough.

[Jester]

There already is incentive. The problem is that there are 'false' newbies who make people paranoid.

[mist]

Originally Posted by Cochese

People shouldn't need bribes or bonuses to help new players.

It's in everyone's best interest, and the benefits of it are (or should be) bonus enough.

people also shouldn't have been harassing phil to make ziks harder 'cus they're want they wanted to play. oh look...

i agree that spies etc are a problem. however it all comes down to benefit vs reward. if you give no direct benefit and the risk of a spy then people arn't going to touch it with a barge pole, if you give a benefit then people have to weight up if it's worth the risk.

plus, it's possible to minimise what the spy gets, unless they're in the alliance proper - which would be a fairly big step

-mist

[Kal]

some kind of mentoring system would be useful, the question is how to do it.

[wakey]

I also have to say that the problems work the other way around.

Its like those bonus we used to get for being GC ect, people didnt want to be GC because they were the best person to lead the galaxy forward but because they were after the bonus and it would be the same here.

People simply wouldnt mentor people because they wanted to help people out OR even because they had the skills to help people out BUT instead just so they got more resources. Offering incetives to mentor is imho wrong (its one of the reasons i was agaisnt the mentor team idea because this offered an official position which is what alot of the applicants were going after as they hadnt thought twice about mentoring before then.)

Mentors have to want to do it and what we need to focus on is getting the 'all for one' spirt of the early rounds back which breed a sharing and helping culture which saw experianced players from all over giving up time to help new players no matter what alliance they were from

[Ferretus]

Its unfortunate to say but I agree. In an ideal world people should help eachother, in a not so ideal world people should be given an incentive to help eachother. In PA however the incentive is abused and players are often not best for the role. In reality much of this community is overly competitve and often not very nice! Blame it on the youth of today oh I remember when...

I'll think some more and try to come up with ideas, I don't normally like poo-pooing ideas without giving an alternative.

[NitinA]

I don't know what I think of the idea yet, as I'm still thinking about it and exploring possibilities. But there are possible methods to put a system like this into place. One possible way I outlined in my head is below.

On the "Prefrences" page, there are two options under 'Mentor," which would be "Request a Mentor" or "Become a Mentor." The system would be in-game and completely anonymous, which has many benifits within itself.

If you "Become a mentor," the computer adds you into a list of all people who wish to be a mentor.

If you request a mentor, the system automatically picks someone out of the "become a mentor" player pool higher in rank than you by a significant amount, for example :

(mentors rank < your rank - [10%*your rank])

When the mentor is selected, the person who has applied to become a mentor is notified the co-ords of the person seeking a mentor, while the person requesting a mentor is notified of his mentors coords. Weather the two wish to exchange IRC identities is therefore strictly up to them. For the first 25 ticks, the new mentor won't get any benifits, and must make contact with the person requesting a mentor. After 25 ticks, if the person who wants help hasn't been contacted, they may request another mentor. But if they have talked to their new mentor and wish to continue, then the two can chat communicate and the mentoring begins.

The 'perk' system for mentors won't be much. It would be progressive like the following (and will hopefully weed-out any perks to people who are in it strictly for the benifits) :

- No perks for the initial 25-tick "contact" period
- FIrst 100 ticks of consistant mentoring = bonus of 2% of player being mentored's income
- .25% increase every 25-ticks with a 5% cap

Of course, there needs to be a few conditions to mentoring :
- If at any time the player being mentored wish to quit the player/mentor relationship (if, for instance, they aren't being helped by the mentor anymore, they want a different mentor, ect.), an option in prefrences will cancel the player/mentor relationship (and any perks the mentor will have).
- If at any time the player being mentored goes above their mentor's score for 24 stright ticks, the player/mentor relationship is canceled automatically.
- No mentor/player relationships within the same alliance/galaxy.
- Alliance/Cluster ETA bonus (-1) between mentor/player (both ways)

Of course I'm just throwing around numbers of an idea. If it were implimented, it'd have to be tweaked and changed and what not. Nor do I know how possible it is to code this in. Of course, the benifit of this system lies in the fact that the better the player being mentored does, the more the mentor gets.

-NitinA

[GradeA]

At the very least the system should automatically send mails to the newbie. Periodically, the first mail should welcome the player after a couple of ticks a second mail should be sent out to the player expressing strategies, and so on.

Best case scenario would be if the system could analyse the planet and make recommendations accordingly, using the mail as the communication channel.

The PA System should be mentor !

[NitinA]

Originally Posted by GradeA

At the very least the system should automatically send mails to the newbie. Periodically, the first mail should welcome the player after a couple of ticks a second mail should be sent out to the player expressing strategies, and so on.

Best case scenario would be if the system could analyse the planet and make recommendations accordingly, using the mail as the communication channel.

The PA System should be mentor !

"Pre-recorded messages" already exist--a manual. We're talking about human-to-human help.

-NitinA

[GradeA]

a manual only helps if you know what you are looking for. Hence, the idea of having the system analyse your planet and make recommendations accordingly...

having said that, human-to-human help would always be first prize. I suspect that some people would prefer the one mechanism whilst other people the more introverted way . Just thought i would add my 2c

[NitinA]

a manual only helps if you know what you are looking for. Hence, the idea of having the system analyse your planet and make recommendations accordingly...

That's impossible. There's no "perfect" way to play Planetarion. Hence the computer can't suggest much for you to do, because all gameplay (engineering, fleet missions, waves, covert ops, production) is completely subjective to your strategy of gameplay.

-NitinA

[GradeA]

Ok it seems i must add a scenario to indicate my point..... if a player has had the account for 50 ticks and has not clicked on construction or research.... perhaps, a mail saying something along the lines of ...

Please start off a construction / resaerch (*short blurb*), you can read more information about it here 'url' or alternatively go to the forums and ask for help 'here' or use your galaxy forums etc.

You are looking at the problem from an experience players set of eyes, take a step back or even better go join another online strategy game and feel how isolated you feel.
I reiterate my first point that 'human to human help/mentorship would be first prize, however i feel that a more intuitive help would also be beneficial.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by NitinA

I don't know what I think of the idea yet, as I'm still thinking about it and exploring possibilities. But there are possible methods to put a system like this into place. One possible way I outlined in my head is below.

On the "Prefrences" page, there are two options under 'Mentor," which would be "Request a Mentor" or "Become a Mentor." The system would be in-game and completely anonymous, which has many benifits within itself.

If you "Become a mentor," the computer adds you into a list of all people who wish to be a mentor.

If you request a mentor, the system automatically picks someone out of the "become a mentor" player pool higher in rank than you by a significant amount, for example :

(mentors rank < your rank - [10%*your rank])

When the mentor is selected, the person who has applied to become a mentor is notified the co-ords of the person seeking a mentor, while the person requesting a mentor is notified of his mentors coords. Weather the two wish to exchange IRC identities is therefore strictly up to them. For the first 25 ticks, the new mentor won't get any benifits, and must make contact with the person requesting a mentor. After 25 ticks, if the person who wants help hasn't been contacted, they may request another mentor. But if they have talked to their new mentor and wish to continue, then the two can chat communicate and the mentoring begins.

The 'perk' system for mentors won't be much. It would be progressive like the following (and will hopefully weed-out any perks to people who are in it strictly for the benifits) :

- No perks for the initial 25-tick "contact" period
- FIrst 100 ticks of consistant mentoring = bonus of 2% of player being mentored's income
- .25% increase every 25-ticks with a 5% cap

Of course, there needs to be a few conditions to mentoring :
- If at any time the player being mentored wish to quit the player/mentor relationship (if, for instance, they aren't being helped by the mentor anymore, they want a different mentor, ect.), an option in prefrences will cancel the player/mentor relationship (and any perks the mentor will have).
- If at any time the player being mentored goes above their mentor's score for 24 stright ticks, the player/mentor relationship is canceled automatically.
- No mentor/player relationships within the same alliance/galaxy.
- Alliance/Cluster ETA bonus (-1) between mentor/player (both ways)

Of course I'm just throwing around numbers of an idea. If it were implimented, it'd have to be tweaked and changed and what not. Nor do I know how possible it is to code this in. Of course, the benifit of this system lies in the fact that the better the player being mentored does, the more the mentor gets.

-NitinA

i quite like this, it basically means someone can pay for help and stop paying if they arn't getting it anymore

[Gerbie]

We have people willing to help for free under the support button. I don't see any reason to make someone pay for being mentored. If you want to be mentored: send me a private forum msg, or PM me on IRC. Or join an alliance that actively support its members.

I'd like an automatic tutoring system much like the old bonus system that gives advice on how to start: pick a race, set engineering, set construction, set research etc.

[Alessio]

My experience with newbs = The only way to turn newbies into PA players is to get them on IRC... I always try to force them on IRC and once there their everything turns out nicely...

The game overview should have a msg like: alright every1 the round starts.. download mirc on www.mirc.com and start playing.. or something..

or some solution what properbly is impossible to script... would be if the GC could set the galchannel for the comunit where it automaticly starts..

Newbs only have to get in touch with their galm8's on IRC... then organise some def or attack and voila.. they know the game.. but how...??

They ussually dont go on IRC by themselfs

edit: and a note that the channel #planetarion excists to get 2 know peeps and alliances or something would be nice...

[Troglodyte]

and for the players who dont have irc ?

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by Troglodyte

and for the players who dont have irc ?

edit: I was talking about those peeps.. and most peeps have a (ugly) comunit

Originally Posted by Gerbie

I'd like an automatic tutoring system much like the old bonus system that gives advice on how to start: pick a race, set engineering, set construction, set research etc.

This is also a gd idea imo

[mist]

Originally Posted by Troglodyte

and for the players who dont have irc ?

there's little point them playing, tbh.

[Troglodyte]

welcome to my world *shrug*

[Blixxard]

I think it is not so much the idea of a mentoring system but CLEAR support options.

Clear instructions need to be setup for new players to know where/how/who to get help. Not having IRC is not the end of the world. Planetarion support system you can submit a question and you quite honestly get a reply within 12 hours. A larger emphasis should be placed on this. Not only for technical problems but assistance on playing, and not being fobbed off with ‘read the manual’

‘Clear, Easy, Direct’

[mist]

people get fobbed off with 'read the manual' because they ask questions that're answered there and they can't be bothered to go read them. would you rather waste time on them which could be used helping someone with a genuine problem?

not having IRC is pretty much the end of the world. no decent alliance will accept you without irc activity and with the game as current you need an alliance to play. that said, doesn't pa have a comm unit?

[Alessio]

It takes alot more time to learn PA without IRC...

For instance most of em dont know what to attack..
and just randomly launch just to get their fleets wasted... if attack at all..
Ive seen it plenty of times noobs initiating constantly without roiding..
but do ask for help when they have incs.. and dont know what to build/res

With IRC they learn very quickly.. its all about irc..

[Blixxard]

Originally Posted by mist

people get fobbed off with 'read the manual' because they ask questions that're answered there and they can't be bothered to go read them. would you rather waste time on them which could be used helping someone with a genuine problem?

I give them the precise URL and a short explanation of what they are looking for.

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[Tyroka]

I'd love the ability to get -1 ETA in defence towards a newbie that one helps... I don't think that person needs to have ETA -1 to me, rather I could see where such a system would be abused (though that depends how many "real" newbies that would want a mentor).


One problem is that if u, as mentor, do defend the newbie your fleet is taken up for quite some ticks, on the other hand that's a price I think some are willing to pay.

Maybe a possibility to make it return from a newbie 1 tick after combat? (less ticks but still a cost) On the other hand that would be something that could be abused...

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

We have people willing to help for free under the support button. I don't see any reason to make someone pay for being mentored. If you want to be mentored: send me a private forum msg, or PM me on IRC. Or join an alliance that actively support its members.

I'd like an automatic tutoring system much like the old bonus system that gives advice on how to start: pick a race, set engineering, set construction, set research etc.

completely my thoughts.
I'd like an option in preferences to turn this on/ off, but basically some sort of inbuilt thing that helps with suggestions of what to build first (res/con etc), some sort of basic plan, and then what sort of ships to build etc. And then a big "if you ever get stuck and need help, use the support button". I always liked the idea of a thread on the gal forum, but same difference tbh and the support button is already there.