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23 Jul 2007, 02:56
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#1
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Hired Thug
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Central Illinois USA
Posts: 894
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bring back fuel cost
even if it's a new type of asteroid..... would be a nice element to add/bring back... make it less for in C, etc
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23 Jul 2007, 09:23
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#2
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Hi there ...
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 481
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Re: bring back fuel cost
i think it would be nice to know why you think it would be nice to bring it back
i would think that it reduces attack activity because you have to save resources to defend/run your fleet .... maybe ingal movement could be free.
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[Ascendancy] - While you were trying, we were sleeping
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23 Jul 2007, 10:42
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#3
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Good Son
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
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Re: bring back fuel cost
Well, it'd bring more complexity and it'd serve as to limit fleet movement to an extent. Clever people could spot a fake fleet observing fuel cost developments.
I'm just brainstorming here, but you could direct fleets through it, sort of. Sending a defence mission would be cheaper in fuel (because you'd be eligible for taking advantage of the friendly planet's infrastructure, warpgates, or equal shit) as where attacking would cost more, and ingalaxy defending would be the cheapest.
Of course, it would all require restructuring in the resource pitch in what comes to ship costs and so on.
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23 Jul 2007, 11:00
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#4
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: bring back fuel cost
If this was introduced in isolation it would serve to limit fleet movement, roid movement and hasten stagnation. I don't think an old-style fuel system would be helpful but there could be some value to a new approach.
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23 Jul 2007, 15:23
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#5
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speCTacular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: H0lland
Posts: 126
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Re: bring back fuel cost
why where fuel costs disbanded in the first place?
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23 Jul 2007, 15:59
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#6
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: bring back fuel cost
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuBBeR
why where fuel costs disbanded in the first place?
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Finally, someone asks the right question.... They were abandoned for a lot of the reasons JBG mentioned. Basically what would happen would be late in the round the big players would be spending all of their time trying to convince their smaller gal mates to trade Eonium into the gal fund so they could still launch fleets. It really was a mess and definitely increased stagnation in the game. The whole universe cheered when fuel was removed from the game, it was far more work then it was worth. The fundamental problem with fuel is it goes one way or the other, either there is too much of it, and then no one cares about it, or there is too little of it and the big players have trouble launching. The first problem makes fuel pointless, and the second leads to a lot fewer fleets flying around the uni, and therefore stagnation. Fuel, while it sounds interesting have been proven in the past not to work well as part of PA and therefore should be left in the scrape heap of discarded ideas that didn't work.
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#strategy
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24 Jul 2007, 13:13
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 33
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Re: bring back fuel cost
I agree with JonnyBGood and Monroe.
After one or two months of playing PA in the past, all ran out of E.
Most fleets stayed at home, unable to attack or defend.
I have seen more than one big player loosing his entire fleet cause he was unable to rescue his ships while under massive attacks.
Short before the end of the rounds, all stayed at home and it was really boring to wait and save Eonium to be able to join the last attack.
I dont want the fuel cost back. Now I am able to start my fleets when I or my Galaxymate needs them.
And I dont have to wait a week to have the fuel for a single start.
Without the fuel cost, the game is faster and dont get boring later on.
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24 Jul 2007, 13:26
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#8
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The PropaGhandi
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 796
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Re: bring back fuel cost
Tbh we don't have that problem anymore, cause rounds are getting shorter, and i predict they will be 72 ticks long by 2010.
|edit| Fuel brings tactics back into the game, atm there are none cept bash & run.
If a big player get caught at his own planet cause he has no fuel left to rescue it, then he fubared his own round, and he would deserve it.
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24 Jul 2007, 13:35
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#9
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: bring back fuel cost
Fuel costs make the game more complicated.
Making the game more complicated is a bad thing.
Ergo fuel costs in the game are a bad thing.
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24 Jul 2007, 13:38
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#10
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Good Son
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
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Re: bring back fuel cost
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allfather
If a big player get caught at his own planet cause he has no fuel left to rescue it, then he fubared his own round, and he would deserve it.
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I'm sure he could still set his fleet on prelaunch towards the neighbour's kitten. You know, all this fleet killing is so angry and hostile, and after all, we're trying to play a peace and love game here.
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24 Jul 2007, 13:46
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 33
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Re: bring back fuel cost
Well, I know I had a bad start, but if you would read my post, then you would see, that I said "boring".
Boring, cause you are UNABLE to fight.
Boring, cause NO battle is going on.
If you want to hide your fleet, then do it.
What I have said is that it is boring WITHOUT a battle.
Edit: Changed a wrong "is" to a "it"
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Last edited by The Wanderer; 24 Jul 2007 at 14:39.
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24 Jul 2007, 14:05
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#12
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Choice of Whacker sir?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 679
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Re: bring back fuel cost
i think that it should be implemented but in way that hasn't been suggested and defnitely not for the way it was. Make it cost you res depending on your fleet value to pre-launch your ships.
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24 Jul 2007, 15:31
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 52
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Re: bring back fuel cost
a little change in how eonium works can help.
eonium is not use to fuel the fleet, but to power the jumpgates.
without eonium, eta of ships is as if you haven't researched any eta
you may pay 1x E cost to get a -1 eta (if you researched it)
you may pay 2x E cost to get a -2 eta etc.
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24 Jul 2007, 16:40
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#14
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: bring back fuel cost
I agree with what everyone who has opposed re-introducing fuel has said. Abolishing fuel was one of the best things done by PaX, and long may it stay this way.
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8 Aug 2007, 18:11
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 158
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Re: bring back fuel cost
So, we should also eliminate ship cost because once we loose our fleets and roids we will not be able to send fleets out untill we rebuild, at least, not fleet that could make a substantial difference.
In fact, following the "too much gas (useless)-too little gas (stagnation)" argument, we should eleminate costs for everything, make everything free.
I never understood or agreed with the arguments put forth for elimination. I have always liked the idea of "scarcity" of everything, it makes us plan better, it makes the game more complicate indeed (which I don;t necessarily agree is bad for the game), and it curves down (although it does not eliminate) those launch and relaunch till you got to bed strategy which is often abused by big value players, especially during the last weeks of any round. Moreover, we now have a universal trading market, if big player wants to keep attacking after realizing that their strategy have failed to secure a steady fuel income, then, pay the consequences, trade in for a penalty.
Finally, we could make it that Cr/Bs travelling time with fuel is 11 (as it is now)... but without fuel (i.e. for fiction's sake, cruising with solar power) would take one or two extra ticks
Last edited by Aedolaws; 8 Aug 2007 at 18:21.
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9 Aug 2007, 08:46
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#16
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speCTacular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: H0lland
Posts: 126
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Re: bring back fuel cost
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathematician
a little change in how eonium works can help.
eonium is not use to fuel the fleet, but to power the jumpgates.
without eonium, eta of ships is as if you haven't researched any eta
you may pay 1x E cost to get a -1 eta (if you researched it)
you may pay 2x E cost to get a -2 eta etc.
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Then it would be impossible to know what incoming you have, hence making it almost impossible to defend youreself.
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9 Aug 2007, 19:06
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 158
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Re: bring back fuel cost
not really, an FA scan could reveal this info clearly.
And even before reaching FAz, the news could reveal the info. For example, it could say the fleet is "cruising" (no eonium), or the fleet is "rushing" and will land at, etc
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10 Aug 2007, 01:28
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#18
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Bona Fide Jesus Freak
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the Word of the Lord
Posts: 765
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Re: bring back fuel cost
Quote:
Originally Posted by aNgRyDuCk
even if it's a new type of asteroid..... would be a nice element to add/bring back... make it less for in C, etc
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This, from someone that is not going to be playing actively in the forseeable future.
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You're not the voice of Christianity di**head.
CT R22-20, [1up] R18-16, TGV R15,
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