Closure?

[jian_yee]

Recently, quite a number of planets were closed for "the reason" deffending "x" alliance 99% of the time. I have read and re-read the EULA, the rules, etc, and there's nothing there that says they can't do that. I would like some clarification on this please.

Also, the reasons for closure were given as
1. u defend "x" alliance 99% of the time, (not acceptable)
2. u have multiple ips

regarding issue no 2, i am very sure that in some cases, YES, there may be cheaters who do that, but in some cases, there are ppl i am very sure would not cheat, they have no reason at all to cheat. Is there any proof given? and if so, are the tools trustworthy.

[Squidly]

Mm... He's got a valid point. I'm in pretty much the same boat (but haven't been closed yet ) as I play from 3 different IPs depending on my place of work...

I am not in the ND tag as of now, due to my own noobishness, but does that mean I am not allowed to defend ND with what little ships I own because I'm out of tag?

[Almeida]

2 rounds ago i was given the answer, that multiple IPs are not enough reason to close someone; dunno if this has been changed by now. if so, my condolences to all ppl out there with dynamic IPs

[Squidly]

Originally Posted by Almeida

2 rounds ago i was given the answer, that multiple IPs are not enough reason to close someone; dunno if this has been changed by now. if so, my condolences to all ppl out there with dynamic IPs

I would imagine that an IP from aussieland logging in 10 minutes after one from Britain might be a little more suspicious than say my logging in at one job, and then logging in at school 2 hours later... I would guess that locations enter into it wouldn't they?

[Almeida]

ofc, would be a bit strange if those IPs are from different countries, i didn't mean that; i ment multiple IPs from your local IP range were not enough reason back then

[Squidly]

Originally Posted by Almeida

ofc, would be a bit strange if those IPs are from different countries, i didn't mean that; i ment multiple IPs from your local IP range were not enough reason back then

Probably a good thing tbh... or I'd be doomed

[Phil^]

If there was something in the IPs then that would explain it , yes. Ie multiple different subnets in different countries or something like that

though its not multihunter policy to spell out the reasons for any particular closure for all to see, so dont hold your breath about them either confirming or denying this

Though to me, it sounds like from what youve said that certain alliance has been caught using "def farms" and that those planets have been closed.

perhaps a debate needs to be started on if tactics like this should be included in the list of banned things in the eula?
Ie an alliance having a group of people outside of their alliance whos planets are dedicated to solely defend said alliance , similarly incase they're used as escorters/defence soaker fleets. - and if this would extend futher to having scan planets who are outside of the alliance tag.

[jian_yee]

yes phil, that's why i think if planets outside the tag are not supposed to be def whores, they shud code it into PA. Something to think about in future rounds....

[jian_yee]

cause atm, there's nothing that says otherwise, and closing ppl (ur friends) who came to pa just to defend u, kinda annoy's ppl as it wasn't stated in the EULA

[Phil^]

theres a catchall in it, under each section where farming, multi-ing etc is defined it has the words "but not limited to"
and at the end of that bit theres :
"Actions which are deemed to be cheating are not restricted to the list given on this
EULA and may be added to at any time, and you authorise us to do so"
so technically, they can close for it if they think it is cheating. evidently they have

btw there is another thread for the debate on this already - from the looks of it so far everyone thinks it should be banned

[jian_yee]

ok, thanks phil

[Wishmaster]

Add to the Eula.
Just one sentance, covers it all for u guys.

The Eula:

We will close you if we don't like you or your mates, or if we just feel like it.

[Squidly]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

Add to the Eula.
Just one sentance, covers it all for u guys.

The Eula:

We will close you if we don't like you or your mates, or if we just feel like it.

You're STILL going on about that? =/

[Wishmaster]

well, thats what the eula pretty much says at is atm.

Why not admit it, and let people know what they sign up for

[Squidly]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

well, thats what the eula pretty much says at is atm.

Why not admit it, and let people know what they sign up for

[Wishmaster]

18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken
...
(e) An Admin does not need concrete evidence of an offence in order to
punish you (...
....

IMO thats like saying: We do as we wish. U were stupid enough to accept the rules when signing up.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken
...
(e) An Admin does not need concrete evidence of an offence in order to
punish you (...
....

IMO thats like saying: We do as we wish. U were stupid enough to accept the rules when signing up.

Havent you stopped playing? Why should you care then.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

IMO thats like saying: We do as we wish. U were stupid enough to accept the rules when signing up.

Actually that's like saying that these are not cases which fall under the purview of classic western jurisprudence, namely "beyond reasonable doubt", but rather to a more restrictive "to a high probability". Effectively it's a statement that this is not a case of life or death or vitally important human rights and that sometimes actions may be taken which are [bslightly[/b] unexpected.

[Doorsdown]

i know i rdp into my uni just so i am not logging/deff/attacking from the same IP as EDog2. Now does it make me a cheater that i will be using 131.128.x.x one minute and then 10 minutes later when i get home on my 68.9.x.x?

[Squishy]

Just to clarify a couple of points.

Multaple IPs are not enough to close.
Defending an aliance 9 times out of 10 is not enough to close someone.

Noone has or will be closed for ether of these two things. I hope that clarifys things for people

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

18.7. Consequences of actions which are not allowed
(a) We reserve the right to determine how much evidence is required before action is taken
...
(e) An Admin does not need concrete evidence of an offence in order to
punish you (...
....

IMO thats like saying: We do as we wish. U were stupid enough to accept the rules when signing up.

We get something like that in the army, if they cant find a charge for you they just pull out the one charge that basically says we can do you for farting if we felt like it

( but obvisously you will have to off done something wrong)

[Neferti]

So if I removed myself from my alliances tag to make room for a better planet (I'm only a scanner), would I then be deleted if I kept on defending said alliance? That stinks

[Heartless]

Originally Posted by Neferti

So if I removed myself from my alliances tag to make room for a better planet (I'm only a scanner), would I then be deleted if I kept on defending said alliance? That stinks

I think nobody would close a scanner who occasionally sends a defense fleet. What people are referring to is the unbelievably high amount of very small cathaar planets which constantly defend members of one certain alliance and which do not even show the signs of a scan planet (I do not consider 15 amps a scanner - do you?).

[Incredible]

Originally Posted by Squishy

Just to clarify a couple of points.

Multaple IPs are not enough to close.
Defending an aliance 9 times out of 10 is not enough to close someone.

Noone has or will be closed for ether of these two things. I hope that clarifys things for people

Lies. I know atleast 1 example.

[Squidly]

Originally Posted by Neferti

So if I removed myself from my alliances tag to make room for a better planet (I'm only a scanner), would I then be deleted if I kept on defending said alliance? That stinks

[Wishmaster]

Originally Posted by Kargool

Havent you stopped playing? Why should you care then.

I am bored.

[Jackal2112]

I can technically login to PA from 4 different IP's in a timeframe off one hour?

- my mobile one which uses GPRS portal from my phone company (t-mobile) - this could be a german IP
- my IP address from home (dutch provider / IP address)
- my IP address from work (which by coincidence is now dutch, but used to be internet over USA proxy)
- my IP address from the silly neighbours which I use when my dsl connection breaks down (dutch IP)

Since I live a 20 minute ride from work its possible and im sure that it has happened, that I checked from work using my mobile + PC and drive home where I immediately run to my room to login (hey im an addict ok). I think that admins can not close any planet without at least giving them a chance to defend themself why they would be using different IP addresses in short time spans. Maybe they do I but I don't know as I am not that well informed.

[Squishy]

Originally Posted by Incredible

Lies. I know atleast 1 example.

You dont. Unless it was you who was closed personally i seriously doupt you know the details of any closure case. If it was you the other reasons would have been given to you at the time you queeryed the case

[Incredible]

Originally Posted by Squishy

You dont. Unless it was you who was closed personally i seriously doupt you know the details of any closure case. If it was you the other reasons would have been given to you at the time you queeryed the case

You got Alzheimers?

I know now 2 examples, where you have closed the planet, before yoy made the rule

[bwtmc]

Originally Posted by Heartless

I think nobody would close a scanner who occasionally sends a defense fleet. What people are referring to is the unbelievably high amount of very small cathaar planets which constantly defend members of one certain alliance and which do not even show the signs of a scan planet (I do not consider 15 amps a scanner - do you?).

I've only seen such planets defend one co-ord this round, and it bugged me for sure, waste of everyone's time. Unfortunately, the only people I know who've been closed, either own bugger all vipers and / or barely use them, or aren't even Cathaar.

[Jorinn]

Originally Posted by Wishmaster

Add to the Eula.
Just one sentance, covers it all for u guys.

The Eula:

We will close you if we don't like you or your mates, or if we just feel like it.

Tbh....

3. We may amend this Agreement at any time in our sole discretion.

Not of course saying they should definately have this ability, though I agree with the rule change in THIS instance re: support planets.

[GonZo]

this might be a stretch but i've just been studying law of contract this week and from what it looks like the eula has unreasonable terms with regards to the sale of goods act of 1979. I will look into it more because, Jolt is the business and we are the consumers we have rights and a lot of the terms in the contract (eula) seem to be very unreasonable. But agian i may just be getting to excited about my new found knowledge,,,