please be honourable

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Darkness

[12:17] <Gitchin> Rember your a womble!
[16:53] <SYMM> Rember your a womble!
[19:28] <Filth> Rember your a womble!
[14:04] <Colt> Rember your a womble!

....
wtf is a womble

a womble is an old brittish thing.... from a tv program. the wombles live in wimbledon common.

[zerocore]

Originally Posted by Storebo

Elysium have betrayed an alliance in all its rounds. Why would it do it now? It would be to much of a turn around in their morals. Command and members in Elysium dislike backstabbing. For instance, Elysium stayed with Wolfpack in round 9 even though they rather wanted to be with Eclipse for the reasons of honour and loyalty(no offence titans :P). Maybe u could past some logs of the ely officers telling u this. Maybe u where in the wrong channel? Isn't logically for an alliance planing such a move to inform everyone asking about it.

I won't post any logs and i won't tell you any names, becouse of respect to privacy of those ppl, what can't be told about some of you.
And look at you, you're trying to denie a fact, which isn't important at all... And evade a question i asked you!

[zerocore]

Originally Posted by Storebo

As Xtothez said in that log. It was this war of yours with Elysium's allies that made them reconsider this deal. I allways felt Xanadu should have kicked ldk in round 6. They where warmongorers. Never did stuff for Xanadu, only for themself. And they could not be controlled and started the war against FoS way to soon. Personally I didn't want a war with FoS, but if it was to happen, it wasn't then. And ofcourse they kept attacking their own allies constantly. LDK was only trouble and not worth what happened to Xanadu end of round 6.

Oh, LDK's fault again... Could you tell me how many "LDK" members joined Elysium and how many of them attack your so called "allies"?
Besides, if ToT's attack on Hearthless wasn't a friendly fire, then why our attacks on rest of EET is?

[lokken]

Originally Posted by K-W

a) Did I miss something? Isnt fang still around?

The difference between players who are homeless due to an alliance disband, and players who jump ship from an alliance facing problems is massive. You use many examples of alliances that just called it quits. Then youve got plenty of able, loyal, people without an alliance. That is very very different from an alliance going bad and people jumping ship at the end of a round to protect thier scores and exact revenge on one enemy in the other block by making them 2nd in score. It is rather rediculous to compare the two.

b) Recruiting en masse good players who you see making a future contribution is massively different than recruiting ship jumpers at the end of a round so you have thier score at the end, when obviously most, if not all of them will be off at the end of the round. If ely, like eclipse claims, had only recruited those players who passed a recruitment procedure meant to ensure loyalty from recruits, that would be one thing. They recruited players whom nobody would have thought would be investments in the future.

a) They were as good as disbanded considering the huge **** up that went on. People don't lose their political views overnight just because an alliance disbands. Lest we forget that Legion recruited like this in its foundation (hello WaC and BlueTuba) in any case, but it was ok for them, because they were Legion.

As always in PA, it's one rule for one alliance and another when people can't stomach it.

b) As was said previously, it's said only to be a section of those recruited who were a risk. Plus, who are we to dictate Elysium's recruitment policy? I certainly wouldn't listen to a forum to determine how i'd recruit people. If they were shit at recruiting that's their problem, not ours and even if they aren't winners, they've pissed off a fair amount of people on this forum which I wholeheartedly approve of

Still got a soft spot for Eclipse?

Booooooooooooo

[zerocore]

Originally Posted by xtothez

Don't disagree with him. If he thinks kicking the people who are trying to take advantage of your alliance is dishonourable, it's his problem...

lol. You knew what we wanted, before we joined Elysium in-game, so why did you recruited us then? Oh... wait, i know why! But why you're crying here about it then?

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by lrytas

@ Storebo. Look look whos speaking. It is not up to you to decide whether we did anything for xanadu or we didnt. If you at least would try to think a bit you would see that LDK played a big role for Xanadu in r6 (also check top planet). I am not saying that LDK was everything etc. No. But Xanadu needed us in r6 for sure. You dont even know situation. "LDK started war against FoS" Put this phrase you know where. And at least there was some fun in r6, not like all the other rounds, where rounds are ending after month. You look like Zhukov now

I know the situation fully. I talked to Xanadu command on a daily basis that round. Sometimes there was sad Xanadu command players talking about how the war would start soon, I ask why, he said LDK was planing something. They had no control over you. LDK lead Xanadu. I know the situation fully, and what u guys did was suicide. Round 6 was fun yes, but a disaster for XeTa.

[TheACE]

i didnt want an other "yes/no" thing. I didnt want to say Ely was totally wrong, i didnt want to say xtothez did thinks totally wrong. That allready happend in other threats, i just wanted to show how wrong the game now is and if we ALL could realise it and do our best to stop it.

we should try to not let these things happen again.

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by zerocore

Oh, LDK's fault again... Could you tell me how many "LDK" members joined Eclipse and how many of them attack your so called "allies"?
Besides, if ToT's attack on Hearthless wasn't a friendly fire, then why our attacks on rest of EET is?

While not a group. LDK don't make a threat. But the alliance/wing LDK was warmongerers.

[zerocore]

Originally Posted by Storebo

While not a group. LDK don't make a threat. But the alliance/wing LDK was warmongerers.

And? What's your point? I mean we don't played r10 as aliance even? Why did you started to talk about LDK then? WTF LDK have with all this?

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Storebo

And in my opinion Xtothez comes out smarter then Sonnenbomber from that log. And honour to some who don't honour you is stupid.

But then again you've been spreading these forums with so much bullshit over the times so no one really cares what you say anymore, mr. Bigbo.

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by zerocore

And? What's your point? I mean we don't played r10 as aliance even? Why did you started to talk about LDK then? WTF LDK have with all this?

Was referring your current bg to ldk in round 6. Are u just dumb or are trying hard to appear that way? Read posts before u respond.

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by Nadar

But then again you've been spreading these forums with so much bullshit over the times so no one really cares what you say anymore, mr. Bigbo.

Allways people who care my dear Nadar.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Storebo

Allways people who care my dear Nadar.

"ofc"

[G.K Zhukov]

Lokken, you forgot Reborn in r3.

And Lrytras, take your cheating arse somewhere else, and dont compare me to Storebo fs. :Gimli:

[lrytas]

@ Storebo. Sad that Xanadu command told all the info to innocent players but not to us . We were "suiciders", but somehow we won the round without fkin blocking/recruiting in midround as nowaday alliances do? Somehow Xanadu asked us to stay with them for r7, because we wanted to play with Fury. Whys all that ? Or i am dumb again and dont realise anything ?
________
Ford Mondeo

[lrytas]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Lokken, you forgot Reborn in r3.

And Lrytras, take your cheating arse somewhere else, and dont compare me to Storebo fs. :Gimli:

Kk, soz, u r more dumb than he actually is.
________
Toyota matrix history

[zerocore]

Originally Posted by Storebo

Was referring your current bg to ldk in round 6. Are u just dumb or are trying hard to appear that way? Read posts before u respond.

Our BG? 1st of you know nothing about it and 2nd... i will ask you again, what does our "BG" have with XtotheZ's try to sell us out? And what do you call "your BG" at all?

[Naps]

Omfg
You Ppl Are So Boring!!
Go Rent A Hooker Snort Some Coke Anything!!
Just Give Up This Mindless Dribble!!

[lokken]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

Lokken, you forgot Reborn in r3.

ta

[1984]

Originally Posted by K-W

As far as honor. Honor has no place in planetarion. This is a war game online. We need to get rid of honor, loyalty, hatred etc. If people just played this game like a game of risk it would be alot of fun.

You sir, disgust me.

You represent everything that went wrong with Planetarion, for what is war without honour and loyalty - No more than the action of beasts. Risk is a mere fanciful dabbling in a short term game of backhander deals and alliances of fancy, which last no longer than it takes to remove another player. Planetarion was once good as alliances stood by their friends through thick and thin, not merely abandoning them because they had been subjected to a two pronged attack through Argentina and Central America. It is clear however that your desired Risk analogy has come into being, and that is sad. Indeed this view was propagated by Legion and Fury in the elder days long ago, until they were smashed and a new (sadly short lived) order was formed.

Honour and loyalty hold valid and true, it is the inherant cowardice of contempory alliance leaders that cast a shadow upon them - Where is the fun in a world without loyalty, honour, friendship and hatred.

Now go to the back of the class and face the wall.

[Cartman]

Originally Posted by lokken

WP took on OOO (a pro Legion alliance) when they were allied to Fury in r4..

OoO was not pro anyone.. only had close relations with tuba... and wp didnt take in OoO..
wp came to OoO wanting it.. and it isnt OOO its OoO... :P

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Cartman

OoO was not pro anyone.. only had close relations with tuba... and wp didnt take in OoO..
wp came to OoO wanting it.. and it isnt OOO its OoO... :P

That's why Obi tried to persuade us to ally with Legion then, and seemed to have a bit of sway with his mates in Legion HC.

[Morden]

Hmm interesting.

I do however find it fascinating that you qaurall over this still.

Elysium won a shallow victory which wasnt won out of skill or talent or even luck, but how many in recent have?

Too many people have quit for it to matter that much anymore, so good luck to them, if there is a round 11, i have no doubt that they will have a difficult round, but let them savour there victory, afterall it is the final tick that counts, and not what happens before that tick, so what they did, was what nearly everyone else would have done.

It is interresting that after all the lies and cursing that you all did to FAnG, that you cannot win without them.

p.s Go back to my posts from about 3 months ago and retract all the bullcrap you said about ToT-Elysium and Eclipse not being allied, tah.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by lokken

a) They were as good as disbanded considering the huge **** up that went on. People don't lose their political views overnight just because an alliance disbands. Lest we forget that Legion recruited like this in its foundation (hello WaC and BlueTuba) in any case, but it was ok for them, because they were Legion.

As always in PA, it's one rule for one alliance and another when people can't stomach it.

b) As was said previously, it's said only to be a section of those recruited who were a risk. Plus, who are we to dictate Elysium's recruitment policy? I certainly wouldn't listen to a forum to determine how i'd recruit people. If they were shit at recruiting that's their problem, not ours and even if they aren't winners, they've pissed off a fair amount of people on this forum which I wholeheartedly approve of

Still got a soft spot for Eclipse?

Booooooooooooo

No, Ive got a soft spot for the truth. They werent as good as disbanded. If they were as good as disbanded... they'd be disbanded. And yes people do lose something overnight when an alliance disbands, they lose thier alliance. Sure some people would still keep grudgest etc, but the fact remains that the people who leave when an alliances disbands are not jumping ship. They suddenly have no alliance and need a new one.

And I never said that mass recruiting never happened. It has happened. In some cases it resulted in good, in many cases it didnt. That was never the issue of discussion.

No one is trying to dictate elysiums policy.

Lokken are you trying to be intentionally thick? Cause frankly this is an extremely simple situation that you seem to be having far too much trouble with. What elysium did was obviously different that mass recruiting at an alliance disband or any other kind of mass recruiting. They recruited at a time in the round where clearly there was no need for them to have more members. They recruited many players whom were clearly not joining them for any purpose but to protect thier score and for a moral victory over eclipse. They put planets that had been hostile to them all round, had roided thier members mercillessly under protection. Their motives are clear from their actions and words. They wanted to best their allys, and in doing so they did something fairly unique in planetarion. Then they defend their actions ny claiming that if they hadn't done it, someone else would have. Which doesnt hold water because what they did is not something that alliances do constantly, and not something ive seen done in a very long time if at all.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by 1984

You sir, disgust me.

You represent everything that went wrong with Planetarion, for what is war without honour and loyalty - No more than the action of beasts. Risk is a mere fanciful dabbling in a short term game of backhander deals and alliances of fancy, which last no longer than it takes to remove another player. Planetarion was once good as alliances stood by their friends through thick and thin, not merely abandoning them because they had been subjected to a two pronged attack through Argentina and Central America. It is clear however that your desired Risk analogy has come into being, and that is sad. Indeed this view was propagated by Legion and Fury in the elder days long ago, until they were smashed and a new (sadly short lived) order was formed.

Honour and loyalty hold valid and true, it is the inherant cowardice of contempory alliance leaders that cast a shadow upon them - Where is the fun in a world without loyalty, honour, friendship and hatred.

Now go to the back of the class and face the wall.

Oh for goodness sake, go crawl back in your hole. THIS IS A GAME. Until you can distinguish a computer war game from reality, you should probably be in some kind of mental institute.

That is the funny thing about planetarion. It is people like you, the moralizers, the ones who think they know waht is wrong with PA, that have done the most damage. People who sit around keeping the ugly cycle of grudges and loyalty going, because your twisted heads think we need some kind of morality in an online war game.

"no more than the action of beats" LOL, I am comfortable enough with my humanity that I dont feel a need to prove it in an online game. Once again, if you fear being seen as non-human, you should probably seek professional help to work that out.

I dont know how long you have played planetarion, but your knowledge of past rounds is laughable. Early planetarion was not about strong loyalty at all. People switched sides and backstabbed each other all the time. Loyalty developed over time as a backlash against the alliances that did so, and grudges then developed as a political tool. Fury and Legion propogated loyalty and grudges more than anyone else. They didnt neccessarily do it on purpose, but due to thier positions in the universe they spearheaded the political system in the game for many rounds. During these rounds loyalty and grudges turned the game into 2 polarized sides fighting a block war every round. And that sucked. It sucked alot. That was what made the game hard to stick with. When youd have 2 blocks and one would win too fast. Then youd spend the rest of the round in stagnation. Then youd have the PA moralizers critisizing you for stagnation, but if you tried to do anything about the stagnation you were called disloyal. So you were stuck between a rock and a hard place and you had to make decisions were there was no winner.

Honor and loyalty do not hold valid and true. THIS IS A GAME. There is no inherent cowerdice in contemporary alliance leaders, or in old alliance leaders. If your theory of the game causes you to conclude that some large group of people is inherently all cowards, then your theory of the game is wrong.

This is a war game. 1984. It is exactly like risk. And the further we go from a game the less fun it becomes. There is a reason we play games. To escape reality, so why is it that you feel teh need to bring as much real life into the game as possible. Unlike real life, here no lives are at at stake. Nothing is really at stake. So here we can have war for the fun of it. Just like you can shoot people in paint-ball. In a game you get to do things that are wrong in real life, because unlike real life there are no major stakes. This allows for interesting situations and experiences.

This game should be played as a war game. Alliances should be looking out for themselves and creatively making the best moves in order to win the round. That would make the game infinately more fun, and that should be obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence. Yes, we have had some pretty fun situations under the old model, but those have been well overshadowed by the complete disaster that was stagnation. But go ahead and be an idiot and think that those things only happened because of those cowards who ran Fury and Legion. Be an idiot and think that I am some kind of weird cowardly freak with no honor. Dont let the real history of this game, or the facts of the gameplay stand in the way.

Then why dont you trevel around to playgrounds around the world and scream at kids who play any kind of game that doesnt exactly follow real life moral codes.

[Cartman]

Originally Posted by lokken

That's why Obi tried to persuade us to ally with Legion then, and seemed to have a bit of sway with his mates in Legion HC.

still, if one peep is pro legion it doest say an entire ally is pro something.. and we? who?

[*Cooper*]

well said K W

[lokken]

Originally Posted by K-W

No, Ive got a soft spot for the truth. They werent as good as disbanded. If they were as good as disbanded... they'd be disbanded. And yes people do lose something overnight when an alliance disbands, they lose thier alliance. Sure some people would still keep grudgest etc, but the fact remains that the people who leave when an alliances disbands are not jumping ship. They suddenly have no alliance and need a new one.

And I never said that mass recruiting never happened. It has happened. In some cases it resulted in good, in many cases it didnt. That was never the issue of discussion.

Yet again, one rule for one alliance, one rule for another. Lest we forget - BlueTuba and WaC (like FAnG) were like fish in a barrel but still survived - Legion (and to a lesser extent Fury) profited. Here Elysium did. The fk up, as it was in r2, was so large, FAnG to some members was no longer a viable option.

Lokken are you trying to be intentionally thick? Cause frankly this is an extremely simple situation that you seem to be having far too much trouble with. What elysium did was obviously different that mass recruiting at an alliance disband or any other kind of mass recruiting. They recruited at a time in the round where clearly there was no need for them to have more members. They recruited many players whom were clearly not joining them for any purpose but to protect thier score and for a moral victory over eclipse. They put planets that had been hostile to them all round, had roided thier members mercillessly under protection. Their motives are clear from their actions and words. They wanted to best their allys, and in doing so they did something fairly unique in planetarion. Then they defend their actions ny claiming that if they hadn't done it, someone else would have. Which doesnt hold water because what they did is not something that alliances do constantly, and not something ive seen done in a very long time if at all.

I'm not trying to be intentionally thick, I'm just pointing out that despite the rights or wrongs of the action, this was a viable realistic option to take. I've never said whether I would do it, I've not been in the position to make such a decision. When we boil it down, it's an agreement that's mutually beneficial to both parties, just like an alliance or anything else. Even if it is vindictive, lame (and there has been plenty of times that has happened), whatever, they achieved what they wanted, and annoyed a load of people by doing it. There should be a huge sign stapled to Eclipse's face saying 'do not feed the trolls' the way this thread is going. I wouldn't be surprised if xtothez is pissing himself laughing at this thread.

You've merely raised to the bait by not realising that if you look at r10 outside of scores (something that both you and I are fond of) that Eclipse are probably the best alliance of r10, and they should be happy with that. Eclipse probably don't need to prove their performance to anyone, or show why they won. Scores don't matter except to players who love statistics, and it gives Elysium an official achievement. Considering the trouble they've caused, they probably deserve it.

Occaisonally HC's are nasty pieces of shite, and you have to be ready for it. Ely didn't want to be left dragged behind, and seemingly acted accordingly, it doesn't matter what HC's actually intend, it's what you yourself think they intend, which is down to plain guesswork at times. Ely probably don't care if it was a 'good' or 'bad' decision, it had the desired effect.

Ultimately all you are saying is that 'Ely won in a damn dirty way' - All I am saying, my dear Germania, is c'est la vie

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by lrytas

@ Storebo. Sad that Xanadu command told all the info to innocent players but not to us . We were "suiciders", but somehow we won the round without fkin blocking/recruiting in midround as nowaday alliances do? Somehow Xanadu asked us to stay with them for r7, because we wanted to play with Fury. Whys all that ? Or i am dumb again and dont realise anything ?

Xanadu was buildt on wings. And it was all a mess after round 6. What happens when u loose a round. Mid round 6 u where trouble for Xanadu. Round 7 u where needed by Xanadu. Was zerocore I said was dumb in this thread btw. Well.. getting top player isn't as good as actually winning the war. Should have learned from all the years with Legion/Fury dominance.. Have to finish your enemies. Your agressive politics lead to a war with FoS way to soon. Was like Hitler attacking Soviet before finishing of England. FoS could need some kicking around tho, but not at that time. A different end to round 6 would also mean a different round 7. Round 7 was pretty much a given outcome.

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by zerocore

Our BG? 1st of you know nothing about it and 2nd... i will ask you again, what does our "BG" have with XtotheZ's try to sell us out? And what do you call "your BG" at all?

Indeed..

Well... your BattleGroup or pack of thugs or whatever u wanna call em.. joined Elysium to stire up a war between Elysium and the rest of EET. U didn't follow Elysium rules/orders, and had your own agenda. So why should Elysium be loyal to someone who isn't loyal to them? Is like kicking troublemakers, and that was what alot of u where in Elysium's view.

[TheACE]

i just meant that ppl would eas out and understand that thinks went wrong this round, and that is shouldnt happen again, NOT making an other discussion about who is right and who is wrong.

Caliban: In war it's not about who is right, just about who is left.

so please let us not talk about right or wrong and just kill eachother next roudn

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by lokken

There should be a huge sign stapled to Eclipse's face saying 'do not feed the trolls' the way this thread is going. I wouldn't be surprised if xtothez is pissing himself laughing at this thread.

You sir missed the point that no eclipse replied till the first page of this thread.
Apart from myself who replied or corrected something on page 1 regarding our recruiting polciy and intentions and Cochese / Leshy who added their personal point in a single post each, no eclipse player has posted here.
Neither ZHil nor Germania are in any way related to Eclipse apart from beeing retired members/hcmembers of our alliance who left 1 or 2 rounds ago for other games and other communities.
As a result i would say the only ones laughing would be laughing about the sign "clueless" above your head.

[zerocore]

Originally Posted by Storebo

Indeed..

Well... your BattleGroup or pack of thugs or whatever u wanna call em.. joined Elysium to stire up a war between Elysium and the rest of EET. U didn't follow Elysium rules/orders, and had your own agenda. So why should Elysium be loyal to someone who isn't loyal to them? Is like kicking troublemakers, and that was what alot of u where in Elysium's view.

Well well, smarty Storebo...
You have no clue about our BG at all and what's more, you have some serious reading problems.
All those ppl who joined Elysium were FAnG and have nothing to do with LDK or "LDK BG" at all, so all your talks about LDK are wothless.
As for Elysium's rules/orders... Elysium's HCs knew about our intentions when they accpeted us and they promised to help us with that. So, who's hypocrite here?
And finaly, what's your problem? What do you want to deny?

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by zerocore

Well well, smarty Storebo...
You have no clue about our BG at all and what's more, you have some serious reading problems.
All those ppl who joined Elysium were FAnG and have nothing to do with LDK or "LDK BG" at all, so all your talks about LDK are wothless.
As for Elysium's rules/orders... Elysium's HCs knew about our intentions when they accpeted us and they promised to help us with that. So, who's hypocrite here?
And finaly, what's your problem? What do you want to deny?

Omg.. U shouldn't talk about people's reading skills. Never said u where LDK BG or anything like that... i just compared your current bg to a partly similare situation in round 6 with ldk. Read my posts again, and don't make up your own endings in them.

[zerocore]

Originally Posted by Storebo

Omg.. U shouldn't talk about people's reading skills. Never said u where LDK BG or anything like that... i just compared your current bg to a partly similare situation in round 6 with ldk. Read my posts again, and don't make up your own endings in them.

Bleh, what's wrong with you? Here's a quote from my signature:
"R10 - 19:2:9 - BlackGuard of The Dark Armoury - FAnG/LDK BG - #4"
And here's a quote from my last post:
"All those ppl who joined Elysium were FAnG and have nothing to do with LDK or "LDK BG" at all..."
SO PLEASE, STOP TALKING BS ABOUT "MY CURRENT BG"
If you're talking about group of FAnG players, say so! But stop repeating "your BG" all the time, as you're talking nonsence... IT WAS NOT "MY BG"!

"a partly similare situation in round 6 with ldk" - yeah, a elephant is partly similar to mouse... both have 4 legs

And btw, in every your post you're trying to evade my questions, can your answer atleast few of them at last?
"If ToT's attack on Hearthless wasn't a friendly fire, then why our attacks on rest of EET was?"
"Elysium's HCs knew about our intentions when they accepted us and they promised to help us with that. So, who's hypocrite here?"
"And finaly, what's your problem? What do you want to deny or prove? It was right thing to do? To recruit hostile planets to win and sell them out? And then claim that #1 planet (all other "sold" planets too) is yours?"

[K-W]

Originally Posted by lokken

Yet again, one rule for one alliance, one rule for another. Lest we forget - BlueTuba and WaC (like FAnG) were like fish in a barrel but still survived - Legion (and to a lesser extent Fury) profited. Here Elysium did. The fk up, as it was in r2, was so large, FAnG to some members was no longer a viable option.



I'm not trying to be intentionally thick, I'm just pointing out that despite the rights or wrongs of the action, this was a viable realistic option to take. I've never said whether I would do it, I've not been in the position to make such a decision. When we boil it down, it's an agreement that's mutually beneficial to both parties, just like an alliance or anything else. Even if it is vindictive, lame (and there has been plenty of times that has happened), whatever, they achieved what they wanted, and annoyed a load of people by doing it. There should be a huge sign stapled to Eclipse's face saying 'do not feed the trolls' the way this thread is going. I wouldn't be surprised if xtothez is pissing himself laughing at this thread.

You've merely raised to the bait by not realising that if you look at r10 outside of scores (something that both you and I are fond of) that Eclipse are probably the best alliance of r10, and they should be happy with that. Eclipse probably don't need to prove their performance to anyone, or show why they won. Scores don't matter except to players who love statistics, and it gives Elysium an official achievement. Considering the trouble they've caused, they probably deserve it.

Occaisonally HC's are nasty pieces of shite, and you have to be ready for it. Ely didn't want to be left dragged behind, and seemingly acted accordingly, it doesn't matter what HC's actually intend, it's what you yourself think they intend, which is down to plain guesswork at times. Ely probably don't care if it was a 'good' or 'bad' decision, it had the desired effect.

Ultimately all you are saying is that 'Ely won in a damn dirty way' - All I am saying, my dear Germania, is c'est la vie

I am near certain that Xtothez isnt trolling, but if he is, good for him. I am bored on winter break right now and posting hear passes the time. If that is his intention, he can keep on going, it helps me pass the time.

I am not in eclipse, I have no contact or connection to eclipse. I dont care who won the round. For all I know ely was better than eclipse. You are reading far too much into my posts. As far as I'm concerned Eclipse and Ely won together with ToT. I dont know who was the best in the block, I really dont care. What ely did was silly. If they wanted to take some fangers who they knew they could trust, fine. But an alliance in a position in the game that elysium is in should not be indescriminately recruiting. I hope they have learned from this mistake and now see how silly it was. If they took in some fangers with the intention of grabbing up some good loose players, fine. They took on players with the obvious intention of a petty score gain, and in the process took on lots of players that were obviously not investments for the future. This is petty, silly and certainly warrents a good public embarassment.

As far as the comparison to rd 2, I think you should be able to clearly see the differences, so I wont go into it too much, but basically that was a much smarter move. The game was very different as was the situation. Both Legion and Fury faced many bumps in the road while recruiting, and both made some bad decisions along the way, if youd liike to discuss any of those instances, fine. I was by no means saying one rule for one allinace, one rule for another. In this situation, I have my opinion on this specific set of facts. In another set of facts I might have another opinion. You are overgeneralizing with my opinion.

Ely was never in a position to be left dragging behind, where did you come up with this? If they had finished up as was they would have finished as a part of the winning block, with lots of well ranked players and #2 in the alliance rankings. If that is left behind sign me up. Why are you arguing that ely did waht they did out of some need. I dont know what your motive is here lokken but you picked the wrong fight, ely did not do what they did to keep from being left behind. They did it on the verge of the end of the round when they were in no danger of being left anywhere. If they truely desired this effect, good for them. From an outside point of view, they acted petty and foolish. And how it makes them look is just as important an end result as the score boost. If that was a trade they liked, i simply have to disagree with thier judgement.

And if that is thier defense "hey, it was dirty, but it worked" I wouldnt really take as much issue with it. Its the fact that they keep making bad excuses that keeps me on thier back. First blaming eclipse, then coming up with another explenation for why they did it. If they want to come clean, I more than likely would lose interest.

Ultimately what I am saying is that Elysium didnt win, and managed to make themselves look petty, piss off their allies, and look in many ways like they were taken advantage of. Indeed this is all cest la vie, but it is a subject of discussion and Im bored. If youve got something better to talk about, shoot.

[AzureWrath]

Originally Posted by K-W

something long

i miss your posts

:Matrix:

[G.K Zhukov]

Your trolling again germ.

[Colt]

bit of a long and actually, quite nice read, though some going off course...as per usual

[K-W]

Zhukov, that isnt trolling. But its nice that you keep trying.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by K-W

They took on players with the obvious intention of a petty score gain, and in the process took on lots of players that were obviously not investments for the future. This is petty, silly and certainly warrents a good public embarassment.

But Ely don't have to care as they 'won', the plan came off and have the time inbetween rounds to fix it. So they can sit back and laugh.

As far as the comparison to rd 2, I think you should be able to clearly see the differences, so I wont go into it too much, but basically that was a much smarter move. The game was very different as was the situation. Both Legion and Fury faced many bumps in the road while recruiting, and both made some bad decisions along the way, if youd liike to discuss any of those instances, fine.

The concept however, is still the same. Allow me to make a football analogy of a cross field ball from the right back position to a breaking left winger. If it's from Ljungberg to Pires it's a 'delicious cross field ball' - if it's from Frank Sinclair to Jordan Stewart it's a 'hooooof'. But both are actually the same thing, even if the second is uglier and probably more inbred. It's still taking in mass players to gain an advantage, whatever the motive.

. If that is left behind sign me up. Why are you arguing that ely did waht they did out of some need. I dont know what your motive is here lokken but you picked the wrong fight, ely did not do what they did to keep from being left behind. They did it on the verge of the end of the round when they were in no danger of being left anywhere. If they truely desired this effect, good for them.

They've never won a round, and after so many rounds I'd say they damn well need one at this stage. Their HC clearly felt they needed to win the round, and chose this way to do it. I'd say desiring a #1 is good for anyone, or would you like to disagree with that?

My motive for posting in this thread is that I read this and thought 'hang on, Elysium aren't that much the bad guys' and for the first time on AD ever i'm probably defending Elysium. Plus I'm bored, of course. I doubt you can guarantee with your alliance history you can come with equally a neutral perpspective.

Ultimately what I am saying is that Elysium didnt win, and managed to make themselves look petty, piss off their allies, and look in many ways like they were taken advantage of

But they got what they wanted and that's all that has to matter.

Anyways, that more or less ends this discussion, it's been a pleasure. I'm going to nominate 1984 to talk about something else, as it seemed to get some nice long posts out of you, and quite frankly, I like the cut of his/her jib.

[1984]

Originally Posted by K-W

Oh for goodness sake, go crawl back in your hole. THIS IS A GAME. Until you can distinguish a computer war game from reality, you should probably be in some kind of mental institute.

That is the funny thing about planetarion. It is people like you, the moralizers, the ones who think they know waht is wrong with PA, that have done the most damage. People who sit around keeping the ugly cycle of grudges and loyalty going, because your twisted heads think we need some kind of morality in an online war game.

"no more than the action of beats" LOL, I am comfortable enough with my humanity that I dont feel a need to prove it in an online game. Once again, if you fear being seen as non-human, you should probably seek professional help to work that out.

I dont know how long you have played planetarion, but your knowledge of past rounds is laughable. Early planetarion was not about strong loyalty at all. People switched sides and backstabbed each other all the time. Loyalty developed over time as a backlash against the alliances that did so, and grudges then developed as a political tool. Fury and Legion propogated loyalty and grudges more than anyone else. They didnt neccessarily do it on purpose, but due to thier positions in the universe they spearheaded the political system in the game for many rounds. During these rounds loyalty and grudges turned the game into 2 polarized sides fighting a block war every round. And that sucked. It sucked alot. That was what made the game hard to stick with. When youd have 2 blocks and one would win too fast. Then youd spend the rest of the round in stagnation. Then youd have the PA moralizers critisizing you for stagnation, but if you tried to do anything about the stagnation you were called disloyal. So you were stuck between a rock and a hard place and you had to make decisions were there was no winner.

Honor and loyalty do not hold valid and true. THIS IS A GAME. There is no inherent cowerdice in contemporary alliance leaders, or in old alliance leaders. If your theory of the game causes you to conclude that some large group of people is inherently all cowards, then your theory of the game is wrong.

This is a war game. 1984. It is exactly like risk. And the further we go from a game the less fun it becomes. There is a reason we play games. To escape reality, so why is it that you feel teh need to bring as much real life into the game as possible. Unlike real life, here no lives are at at stake. Nothing is really at stake. So here we can have war for the fun of it. Just like you can shoot people in paint-ball. In a game you get to do things that are wrong in real life, because unlike real life there are no major stakes. This allows for interesting situations and experiences.

This game should be played as a war game. Alliances should be looking out for themselves and creatively making the best moves in order to win the round. That would make the game infinately more fun, and that should be obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence. Yes, we have had some pretty fun situations under the old model, but those have been well overshadowed by the complete disaster that was stagnation. But go ahead and be an idiot and think that those things only happened because of those cowards who ran Fury and Legion. Be an idiot and think that I am some kind of weird cowardly freak with no honor. Dont let the real history of this game, or the facts of the gameplay stand in the way.

Then why dont you trevel around to playgrounds around the world and scream at kids who play any kind of game that doesnt exactly follow real life moral codes.

#Now your easy, easy like sunday morning

By the way, you are wrong as per usual. I may explain to you why you are wrong later on, should I become sufficiently bored.

But then I don't recall a time where you were ever correct, so toddle off and get me a cup of tea - theres a good lad.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by K-W

Zhukov, that isnt trolling. But its nice that you keep trying.

Your trolling as usual, and your double standards is cute.

[K-W]

Erm Zhukov, there are plenty of definitions of trolling available online so you can thouroughly correct yourself as to the definition. Needless to say i am not trolling. And there is no double standard. Please care to back up your posts so I can see where exactly you misunderstood/read/interpreted what I wrote.

1984, I dont know who you are, but if talking down to me makes you feel good about yourself enjoy. I am not in the slightest bit wrong. You are taking an extremely simplistic view of this game and acting as if youve got some incredible insight. Your opinion has been stated many many times by many many people, all of which didnt fully understand the game and were just trusting thier emotions far too much. You can live in a world full of cowards where you are KIng if you like. I prefer reality where people are people and where complex problems have complex solutions. But if it makes you feel better, you are right. It isnt the nature of the game and the complex interactions of the players that hurt PA, it was just that some bad bad men came and were cowards. Now go tuck yourself into bed and make sure someone checks the closet for monsters (ooo, I can do it too)

[K-W]

Originally Posted by lokken

But Ely don't have to care as they 'won', the plan came off and have the time inbetween rounds to fix it. So they can sit back and laugh.

Erm, ok. If you see this as a victory, fine. I have to question your judgement. As far as I can tell this was a very straighforward block victory where no single alliance can possibly be considered the victor over the others in the block. Even if you count the people they recruited, they still didnt have some clear position of dominance over thier block-m8s, meaning they can laugh all they want, they didnt get themselves a round won by Elysium. And if you think that they will clean all this up, fine. I would be impressed if they did. My guess is that even if its minor, this will effect thier reputation enough to effect how they are seen and treated in the future.

If you feel it was a good tradeoff, fine. I disagree. Theres nothing to argue about here, its an individual preference. I think the tradeoff was a bad one and in the futur people wont say that ely won round 10, they will say that eet won rd 10 and ely recruited at the end to get the top score in the alliance rankings. That is hardly a victory in my book, and if they are laughing about it, I laugh at them.

Originally Posted by lokken

The concept however, is still the same. Allow me to make a football analogy of a cross field ball from the right back position to a breaking left winger. If it's from Ljungberg to Pires it's a 'delicious cross field ball' - if it's from Frank Sinclair to Jordan Stewart it's a 'hooooof'. But both are actually the same thing, even if the second is uglier and probably more inbred. It's still taking in mass players to gain an advantage, whatever the motive.

The concept is the same, but the particulars are not. We arent discussing taking mass players to gain an advantage whatever the motive. If we were you would be right, but we arent. We are talking about taking in a mass of players when the round is already decided for the sole purpose of getting to #1 in the score rankings, when the nature of the round has already precluded any single alliance declaring victory anyway.

Lokken, you can generalize this all you want and pretend I am being a hypocrit.e. I dont know why you are and im a bit insulted though. I am not adressing all mass recruiting, I am addressing this particular instance where the facts are different than any other instance. ANd i have explained exactly how those unique facts influence what I have said. Why are you still pretending that I am talking about all mass recruitment?

Where exactly are you confused about my position, because I still dont understand why you continue to respond to me as if I had said the exact opposite of what I have said. Mass recruitment can sometimes be smart and can sometimes be not. In this particular instance I dont think it was smart. Im not sure how much clearer I can be, but tell me where I lost you and I will try. I am not talking about all mass recruitment.

Originally Posted by lokken

They've never won a round, and after so many rounds I'd say they damn well need one at this stage. Their HC clearly felt they needed to win the round, and chose this way to do it. I'd say desiring a #1 is good for anyone, or would you like to disagree with that?

They didnt win this round... so frankly Im not sure where you are coming from. Never in the history of planetarion has the alliance in the winning block with a marginal score advantage been called the winner of the round. Never. So why did ely and why do you think that suddenly it will mean it now. They are as much winners of this round now as they would have been in second place in the rankings. EET won the round. Elysium can count that as a win as much as elcipse can and as much as the many alliance who have had joint wins. They would have had the exact same status without these recruits. Thus it was not this decision that won them the round, it was thier battling all round and working with thier allies.

I think it would have been a smarter move for them not to cheapen thier actual victory by trying to fabricate and insignificant victory.

Originally Posted by lokken

My motive for posting in this thread is that I read this and thought 'hang on, Elysium aren't that much the bad guys' and for the first time on AD ever i'm probably defending Elysium. Plus I'm bored, of course. I doubt you can guarantee with your alliance history you can come with equally a neutral perpspective.

It seems pretty neutral to me. I am not saying that elysium are bad guys, and I never have. The nicest guys in PA have made bad decisions. I have made bad decisions. I am not making any charecter judgements.

Originally Posted by lokken

But they got what they wanted and that's all that has to matter.

What exactly was that. Clearly you have some special insight or source in Ely that I am not party to. What did they want. To win the round... they had already done that. To be seen as sole winners, that was never going to happen. To get the most top ten planets... if they are willing to trade all this bad feeling and publicity for that, then cheers to them. I think they should have had better goals if that was the case.

Originally Posted by lokken

Anyways, that more or less ends this discussion, it's been a pleasure. I'm going to nominate 1984 to talk about something else, as it seemed to get some nice long posts out of you, and quite frankly, I like the cut of his/her jib.

Wow Lokken, are you really that jaded? Are you really that bitter about PA that you read 1984's post and think that you like it? Are you kidding me? 1984 is advocating that we all look at planetarion with anylitical skills of a kindergartner. Rather than look at how the game mechanics and interactions withing the game and how that led to how the game was played and how that effected the game, 1984 is advocatiing that we just say that the people who run alliances are cowards. And that is the only reason PA isnt perfect. And that somehow, by trying to analize this complex system, I am being stupid and just apologizing for this elite group of cowards that somehow manages to be stupid and evil, yet always stays in charge of the major allainces. Thank god I dont share the worldview of 1984 and apparently yourself.

Then again maybe i wish I did. It would be nice to think the world was all just simple and black and white.

[*Cooper*]

well basically All i see here is people trying to find a reason to still blame Elysium for many things, like people cant excelt that they won PA and THEY DIDNT! hehe
Well it started with ToT or TpT slagging off Ely, and has slowly changed to LDK having a go too!
makes me laugh

[lokken]

Originally Posted by K-W

What exactly was that.

Wow Lokken, are you really that jaded? Are you really that bitter about PA that you read 1984's post and think that you like it?.

ER..to knock Eclipse off the top score rankings, and it did just that.

Actually, I'm ending the discussion as it seems to have got to the stage where we're repeating stuff that's going to bore the nadgers off the people who read this here forum. If that was a troll, excellent stuff!

I selected 1984's post as whether I agree with it or not (I don't know if he's serious or if he's trolling you), it's got potential for some proper flaming, longevity of discussion, and I'll find the whole thing a good laugh.

Me? Cynical about PA, probably. Bitter about PA. No need to be.

[G.K Zhukov]

Germ, you say to 1984 that its just a game. Witch I agree on.
Then you say to Lokken that Ely is bad for taking in recruits late in pax. Ely did what they wanted in a GAME, and thats it.

Lokken wins.

[Mikee]

Originally Posted by lokken

That still doesn't address the point that alliances recruit talent from disbanded alliances because it's an easy way to get bigger.

Legion especially are an alliance that was BUILT on treachery, even if you consider being hostile/allied a difference (I'd more consider it being people you can't really account for so even allies are potentially a risk). You can hardly say that someone even leaving Fury to Legion or vice versa was a friendly transaction and they were best buddies.

Booooooooooooooooooooo

LIES Legion > * HI Lokken

[Norseman]

Originally Posted by K-W

Erm, ok. If you see this as a victory, fine. I have to question your judgement. As far as I can tell this was a very straighforward block victory where no single alliance can possibly be considered the victor over the others in the block.

Why bother to destroy the one good thing about PAX by imprenting the same old ****ed up definiton of a winner as the one which existed in planetarion?

You know... the one where a block can remain as a united block untill everyone are bored to death and each alliance in that block can be said to be a 'winner'?

IF Elysium could have been defined as the sole winner of this round...that would infact ensure that NO SINGLE BLOCK could EVER win a round, simple because the one alliance leading the official ranking is the one who wins the round. Hence it would enforce the ruling block in the end to fight each other.

(excuse my lousy english, cant be bothered to use a speller)