Cannabis Debate

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by ItotheDtotheI
You are wrong.

You've been smoking regularly for 3 years with no real breaks, as such you have built a tolerance up and need to smoke alot more than those who are less tolerant. So, for others, smoking one small joint will do something to them and they haven't wasted their time or their stash. You however have to smoke alot more to get the same effects. Now who's wasting their time and stash?

Then why do you not appreciate that some people would rather have the relaxed state that 1 joint/beer will bring upon them, rather than the 'OMG THE ROOM IS SPINNING WHERE IS THE BUCKET' state that 10 may bring on them?

Because they like the effect 1 can gives them, and aren't enough of an alcoholic to require another, then another, then another? I myself am going to have 1 can of beer in a minute as I watch a film and it will set me into a more relaxed state and I will be greatful for it.

Because the effects smoking one joint of cannabis can give you are nice, relaxed and worth it?

See, the difference is you seak out getting totally ****ed, where as others just like to relax. With your food analogy, it's the difference between eating a piece of cake because you like the taste, or eating the whole cake as you are a fat greedy bastard with appetite issues.

Not regularly. On and off, when ive had the money, when friends have had the money. When thereve been parties. Sometimes theres 4 a week, sometimes theres 3 in 2 months. Yes, i accept i have a tolerance, but its not particularly high. Plus i never start smoking if i dont intend to have some sort of effect on myself, so i never waste anything. And as i combine it with drinking usually, it takes less of each to create one effect.

I already stated that i dont always "go at it". Id guess i have only ever gone "past the limit" i set myself 10-20% of the time that ive been at parties / gatherings. I drink to get drunk enough for things to be funny, for food to taste better. I smoke to get stoned enough for time to pass quicker, and to have a nice buzz. With both, i am always fine to walk home, usually about a 40 minute walk at 1am.

Your at home, and you are watching a film in the comfort of a seat i presume. I think thats sort of sad if you need drugs to relax you further than that. They are a social lubricant.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by ItotheDtotheI
The problem lays with poor education of people, i.e. those 12 year olds you want to give heroin to will mess themselves up if they can just get it, as they won't know better.

I don't want to "give" anyone anything. Read my post again. I want people to be free to have things if they desire. Similarly, I want couples to have the option to get divorced if they so wish. "Oh, so you must campaign to end all marriages then!!!!"

Secondly, I don't give a **** about the effects of cannabis. It doesn't matter one jot to me. From first hand experience (and second hand experience through people I know who are regular users) it seems pretty harmless (in the grand scheme of things). Yes, it almost certainly cuts life expectancy probably by quite a bit. So what? Oh no, you'll only live until 60. In the short term it's a sedative of sorts. So what...I'm not saying that airline pilots should smoke a few joints before take off, ffs.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
They are a social lubricant.

No. They are a social lubricant for you. You are not the only person in the world.

[Kumnaa]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Your at home, and you are watching a film in the comfort of a seat i presume. I think thats sort of sad if you need drugs to relax you further than that. They are a social lubricant.

wait till you have to deal with real life

[Deffeh]

no im not, but thats hardly the point.

What makes smoking cannabis alone any more acceptable than drinking alone? I cant see a feasible excuse for either

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Kumnaa
wait till you have to deal with real life

Oh, arrogant 20-something man is back. What would you know of "life" that i wouldnt? Besides having a bigger number right of your name in the paper?

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
What makes smoking cannabis alone any more acceptable than drinking alone? I cant see a feasible excuse for either

It's not any more acceptable than drinking alone, to my mind. Fortunately no-one needs an excuse for you, or anyone else. The reason of course that people enjoy it. It helps them go into a better frame of mind, or relaxes them further, as stated previously. Some song-writers (for instance) might feel more creative after sampling x or y substance. Other substances are alleged to have inspired a degree of creativity with some computing types.

(The actual reason why drinking alone is sometimes frowned upon is that it can be indicative of alcoholism. If I know someone who is a light drinker who drinks alone, I won't give it a second thought.)

[Kumnaa]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Oh, arrogant 20-something man is back. What would you know of "life" that i wouldnt? Besides having a bigger number right of your name in the paper?

Working full time, dealing with idiots trying to tell you how to do your job, bills flying at you from all directions that need to be paid NOW. You dont know how easy you've got it living at home with your parents, going to school.

There is nothing nicer than coming home and sitting on the sofa, turning on the telly and smoking a spliff/having a can of beer, forgetting about the crap you've had to deal with all day.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Kumnaa
Working full time, dealing with idiots trying to tell you how to do your job, bills flying at you from all directions that need to be paid NOW. You dont know how easy you've got it living at home with your parents, going to school.

There is nothing nicer than coming home and sitting on the sofa, turning on the telly and smoking a spliff/having a can of beer, forgetting about the crap you've had to deal with all day.

you presume im at school, you presume i have parents, you presume i dont work. you presume my natural habitat allows me to sit back on the sofa and have a joint / beer.

You might not know how easy you have it

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
you presume my natural habitat allows me to sit back on the sofa and have a joint / beer.

Quite obviously he never presumed that, since he's saying he personally enjoys it as a method of dealing with stress.

[Deffeh]

and im citing it as a possible cause

[Kumnaa]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Six minutes after you posted this, i had my first ever job interview. Cool, etc.

Dunno how the hell mine went. I didnt answer the questions very well but on the plus side my interviewer seemed to like me, and we spent double the allotted 10 minutes talking about the job and laughing. Plus she sort of "filled in the gaps" of the things i didnt say in the interview, she got the jist and wrote down what i was "trying" to say. Shes one of the two people who choose who gets the job, so in this light, i feel i have a good chance.

Go go power maplins recruiters

Originally posted by Deffeh
i was in there for 20 minutes.

an hour and a half? was this an actual job you were going for, rather than a ****ty part time thing like me?

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...hreadid=164204

tada

[Deffeh]

Yes, now youve confirmed your assumptions

And i think youd do well to read that thread, you might not be so agist then

[pablissimo]

Were there not recent (albeit Gov't funded) studies into continued moderate cannabis usage showing a marked relationship between smoking the drug and psychiatric conditions in later life? Granted these studies haven't got much data to go on yet but surely this should be... you know... worrying?

And is this thread about cannabis smoking in general or smoking alone? I'm confused in an apathetic kind of way.

[Kumnaa]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Yes, now youve confirmed your assumptions

And i think youd do well to read that thread, you might not be so agist then

I have been there, done that. I can tell you that the rest of your life is going to be harder. My school days were the easiest time of my life, no worrying about what I'm going to do now I've been made redundant, where my next rent check is coming from and how I'm going to last the next week without much money for food. Come back in 5 years and tell me you dont enjoy coming home after work and sitting on the sofa to watch telly and drink a can of beer.

[Kumnaa]

Originally posted by pablissimo
Were there not recent (albeit Gov't funded) studies into continued moderate cannabis usage showing a marked relationship between smoking the drug and psychiatric conditions in later life? Granted these studies haven't got much data to go on yet but surely this should be... you know... worrying?

And is this thread about cannabis smoking in general or smoking alone? I'm confused in an apathetic kind of way.

I think its moved onto why would anybody have 1 spliff/drink if they didnt intend to get wasted

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Kumnaa
I think its moved onto why would anybody have 1 spliff/drink if they didnt intend to get wasted

Originally posted by ItotheDtotheI
Because they like the effect 1 can gives them, and aren't enough of an alcoholic to require another, then another, then another? I myself am going to have 1 can of beer in a minute as I watch a film and it will set me into a more relaxed state and I will be greatful for it.

Then Idi wins. Though the idea applies less to alcohol; I in the past enjoyed the taste, and the sensation of just having a small glass of whiskey at night while chatting to friends, similarly with other drinks.

The difference is that there is nothing more than the sensation of intoxication with drugs, I can't see how inhaling smoke can be deemed as enjoyable as having a drink, aiming for getting off your tits or otherwise.

Personal opinion.

[Nusselt]

k, can we all just begin to focus our arguments here a little,

Deffeh why do you have a problem with consenting adults smoking illegal substances in their own homes?

[Deffeh]

this thread would have been better if it had been planned; an actual starting post would have given it direction, rather than a reply to a comment which has sparked a ranging debate

I am racking my brain and trying to remember when we moved from the similarities of alcohol and drugs to all this malarky.


I am not a particularly heavy drinker, or smoker. But i have never understood this "one beer" thing. I have tried this in the past, and i feel nothing. I feel nothing at all until around three units are in me, at which point im relaxed. Dope for me is different. Some days it catches me off guard on half a joint. Once (annoyingly) i smoked several and remained entirely unaffected (save a sore throat). The difference for me is when i drink or smoke, i aim to go to the highest possible extreme of pleasure that i _can still control_.

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Deffeh
But i have never understood this "one beer" thing. I have tried this in the past, and i feel nothing.

Enjoyment. People enjoy beer. They like the experience of slowly sipping a cold glass of lager on a hot day, they like to relax with a couple bottles when they get back from work. The effect mightn't be consciously noticeable but it's psychologically pleasant and certainly relaxing.

[Deffeh]

but thats a stereotype, thats something the media tells you. Thats a stigma, rather than enjoyment factor that stands up by itself. You said it yourself, its psychological.

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Deffeh
but thats a stereotype, thats something the media tells you. Thats a stigma, rather than enjoyment factor that stands up by itself. You said it yourself, its psychological.

Explain.

Ask most people who play darts, they'll tell you that they're better after just one pint than none at all, even if they can't feel any difference. Your stopping distance in a car increases even if you're still under the limit, even though you can't feel any difference. There's a physiological effect of just one beer on the body.

So what if the relaxing effect is, at least to begin with, psychological?

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Nusselt
k, can we all just begin to focus our arguments here a little,

Deffeh why do you have a problem with consenting adults smoking illegal substances in their own homes?

I do not. I do it myself, when i have parties here. If people want to smoke cannabis then thats ok by me. That was never my problem

What i dont like is
[list=1][*]The stigma attached to cannabis. Our culture of glorifying it is quite pathetic[*]People smoking cannabis when its not going to have any effect on them, as if it was, or might as well be, a fag.[*]People smoking alone (Or drinking alone). It may not be addictive, but it leads to dependancy surely[*]The serious use of the word "stoner" by anyone[/list=1]

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by pablissimo
Explain.

Ask most people who play darts, they'll tell you that they're better after just one pint than none at all, even if they can't feel any difference. Your stopping distance in a car increases even if you're still under the limit, even though you can't feel any difference. There's a physiological effect of just one beer on the body.

So what if the relaxing effect is, at least to begin with, psychological?

I was referring to the image of "cold beer, warm day, man like man drink". One of the first times i ever drank beer was at a barbeque on a hot summers day. A lot of my friends were all lying back and going "aaaaah that hits the spot", or "nothing better than a cold beer and a hot burger" - or having looks on their face that said this exact thing, while i was thinking "gee, american beer sucks as much outside as it does inside". I am insinuating that a large part of the "one beer" or "one casual spliff" thing is image, rather than effect.

[Snurx]

Originally posted by Deffeh

What i dont like is
[list=1][*]The stigma attached to cannabis. Our culture of glorifying it is quite pathetic[*]People smoking cannabis when its not going to have any effect on them, as if it was, or might as well be, a fag.[*]People smoking alone (Or drinking alone). It may not be addictive, but it leads to dependancy surely[*]The serious use of the word "stoner" by anyone[/list=1]

1. Gloryfing? How can you call de-legalization, fines, prison times and social stigma gloryfying? And, people smoke it to be when theyre 13. Not 17+
2. Oh, but it does have a effect, albeit a small one. Calms your nerves, takes away pain, and generally, gives you a ligther head and a more happy day!
3. Smoking alone is like having a beer alone. It's okay, as long as it's done for enjoyment and not just to get drunk/stoned. Also, its okay as a painkiller and hangover cure!
4. Stoner is da cool, mon!

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Deffeh
I was referring to the image of "cold beer, warm day, man like man drink". One of the first times i ever drank beer was at a barbeque on a hot summers day. A lot of my friends were all lying back and going "aaaaah that hits the spot", or "nothing better than a cold beer and a hot burger" - or having looks on their face that said this exact thing, while i was thinking "gee, american beer sucks as much outside as it does inside". I am insinuating that a large part of the "one beer" or "one casual spliff" thing is image, rather than effect.

It's the experience as a whole, you seem to be isolating drinking a beer from any other environmental interaction.

For instance, it's not the case that a beer would be particularly relaxing if you were in a closed, 6x6 room with nothing but a chair. In your bbq example, it's a part of a larger, pleasant experience, not an end in itself.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Snurx
1. Gloryfing? How can you call de-legalization, fines, prison times and social stigma gloryfying? And, people smoke it to be when theyre 13. Not 17+
2. Oh, but it does have a effect, albeit a small one. Calms your nerves, takes away pain, and generally, gives you a ligther head and a more happy day!
3. Smoking alone is like having a beer alone. It's okay, as long as it's done for enjoyment and not just to get drunk/stoned. Also, its okay as a painkiller and hangover cure!
4. Stoner is da cool, mon!

[list=1][*]Gangster rap for a start. Its been so commonplace and accepted to sing "smoke weed everyday". Bob Marley would die a second death if he ever saw the way he is presented nowadays. Posters, mugs, everything, its easy, its cool to buy anything that almost insinuated you are a pothead. The new genre of "Stoner rock". Need i say more?[*]But thats when it has an effect! Thats what im trying to say, once it has an effect, its made worthwhile. When you arent feeling anything at all, its completely pointless. Like if you were to take one draw of a friends joint then walk away and not smoke again that day, it wouldnt touch you even feather lightly (presuming you had eaten in the last week). As you smoke more, your resistance increases more. It takes more to break that "first" limit, and not breaking it is pointless.[*]But thats the point, tipsy is just "not very drunk", 'dizzy' or whatever you want to call it, i doubt there is a name, is just "not very stoned". So long as you are still in control of your actions, being drunk / stoned is fine. I can appreciate the feeling, whilst appreciating i still have control.[*]No.[/list=1]

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by pablissimo
It's the experience as a whole, you seem to be isolating drinking a beer from any other environmental interaction.

For instance, it's not the case that a beer would be particularly relaxing if you were in a closed, 6x6 room with nothing but a chair. In your bbq example, it's a part of a larger, pleasant experience, not an end in itself.

But thats what im saying, the surroundings, the fact that your told "beer is better at a barbeque" - maybe not taste wise, but psychologically - is just an image - another example?

Originally posted by pablissimo
Though the idea applies less to alcohol; I in the past enjoyed the taste, and the sensation of just having a small glass of whiskey at night while chatting to friends, similarly with other drinks.

thats the done thing too. You wouldnt sit and "chat" over a six pack the same way you would over a whiskey / brandy - its just the done thing

[pablissimo]

Wait wait wait.

You're wondering why people would drink 'just one beer' because in your opinion it has no effect and so is fruitless. Yet you can see how it has a psychologically positive effect...

What?

And yes, I do sit and chat with my dad over a beer or two, I don't get to see him as much as I'd like so we'll often catch up over a pint. It is done.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by pablissimo
Wait wait wait.

You're wondering why people would drink 'just one beer' because in your opinion it has no effect and so is fruitless. Yet you can see how it has a psychologically positive effect...

What?

And yes, I do sit and chat with my dad over a beer or two, I don't get to see him as much as I'd like so we'll often catch up over a pint. It is done.

no, i see that it does, i just dont see how or why it does. For instance, if coke had always used "goes down well with a half cooked burger" or something, drinking a coke with a bbq would be preferencial to the same people whod drink a beer in todays climate

men drink beer in pubs, men catch up over a beer. Its all just stigmas and images that we are brought up with without realising it.


Still, you have made a point here. Never in the past have i considered one joint or one beer to be placebo esque.

I guess im just not turned on by the stigmas. Im aware of them though, when some arent. But they are the ones that get pleasure from them. So understanding them doesnt give me any sort of advantage.

Its the ignorance is bliss thing, in a way. Whether its better to be insightful and bitter, or passive and happy.

You have altered my thinking, somewhat. now we can move onto the next complicated strain that we havent thrashed out yet

[pablissimo]

Shoot.

Though I'd rather call it 'tradition' than a stigma. Or something.

[Deffeh]

tommorow, i am thoroughly knackered. besides my job interview, and three kickboxing sessions, i have posted on GD since 8 this morning. im needing a job methinks. till tommorow

[Mong]

I feel judged

For what it's worth; I think there is something a bit sad with getting drunk/stoned on your own. However just having one spliff whilst chilling out is nice to kind of relax you and highten your awareness. Deffeh claims just one has no effect - I'd say he's not buying the good stuff

But getting drunk on your own is really, really sad. I'm sure psychobabblists would use it to point to a host of problems, both as the cause and effect!

Can I go now?

Am I guilty?

M.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by ItotheDtotheI
I don't care what you do or dont give a **** about. I'm just pointing out that your statements about cannabis and health are totally incorrect and unsubstantiated.

How so? The effects are minimal (again, compared to things I've actually compared it to).

I'd guess that some of the studies currently being undertaken are correct - that cannabis use (regularly) can cause an increased chance of psychiatric ill-health (as well as the obvious things like cancer). Obviously dosage, strength of dosage, regularity of use all has an effect. Things like "Fourteen times more likely!" sound quite dramatic but if the baseline % is only .1% then it's not exactly something to worry about.

But going back to my original comment - cannabis is not that damaging to health. Same with alcohol. My uncle drank from the age of thirteen until he was about 70. I don't really see the point of encouraging people to live past that age unless we can make certain breakthrough's in other areas of medicene.

Being 92 and frightened of people who come to the door, confused about life in general and generally having a **** standard of living doesn't seem to be something to encourage. I pray lung cancer/heart disease gets to me before then.

[Mong]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Being 92 and frightened of people who come to the door, confused about life in general and generally having a **** standard of living doesn't seem to be something to encourage. I pray lung cancer/heart disease gets to me before then.

Exactly, exactly. I'd rather die of something self-inflicted, before say 70. Than live to 100 (quite likely for our generation) and have no concept of... anything!

That said, my Grandad is about to turn 80, and he's still quite active, his mind is perfectly intact, in fact he's currently writing his first ever book!

I think I'd rather live as I do (I drink and do drugs in moderation, but also keep fit, eat well, and find time to relax). I'd also like to live to about 80 or 90, as long as I remained healthy and my mind was intact (like my Grandad).

I don't see how smoking a few spliffs over the course of a week is going to prevent me acheiving that goal.

Besides, I'll be rich enough to buy a whole new body by the time I hit 60

M.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Mong
For what it's worth; I think there is something a bit sad with getting drunk/stoned on your own. However just having one spliff whilst chilling out is nice to kind of relax you and highten your awareness. Deffeh claims just one has no effect - I'd say he's not buying the good stuff

But getting drunk on your own is really, really sad. I'm sure psychobabblists would use it to point to a host of problems, both as the cause and effect!

Actually, you have a point there. Supposedly in Glasgow we have the worst resin in europe, and i dont know whats said about our grass. Suppose thats imported though.

[Mong]

Originally posted by Deffeh
Actually, you have a point there. Supposedly in Glasgow we have the worst resin in europe, and i dont know whats said about our grass. Suppose thats imported though.

I only tend to use skunk. Our current suppliers have atm some really nice fresh stuff, full of THC

I never use resin; it's too harsh and often mixed with crap like shoe polish (if you believe the scare stories!)

Skunk is the way to go; you generally smoke less (a good thing) than regular weed/resin, and it's a nicer high.

NOTE: I am NOT advocating drug usage AT ALL. Just giving some advice to those of you who do. On the basis of things, drugs are probably bad h'mkay?

M.

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Mong
I only tend to use skunk. Our current suppliers have atm some really nice fresh stuff, full of THC

I never use resin; it's too harsh and often mixed with crap like shoe polish (if you believe the scare stories!)

Skunk is the way to go; you generally smoke less (a good thing) than regular weed/resin, and it's a nicer high.

NOTE: I am NOT advocating drug usage AT ALL. Just giving some advice to those of you who do. On the basis of things, drugs are probably bad h'mkay?

M.

There is a difference between advocating the use of cannabis; and glamourising it. As ive said, i use drugs. A lot of my friends use drugs. Some of them more frequently than others, some of them more sensibly than others. To me thats a personal choice. What i cant stand is the glorification of them.

Calling themselves "stoners", as if its some sort of earned title, something to be proud of. Calling music "stoner rock" - Kajas, or cayas, however they are spelt for example. Or listening to Bob marley - perfectly fine if you genuinly like the music, but pretentious and **** if your doing it as part of the "experience". Using words like "chonged". Buying merchandise that makes cannabis seem attractive. I know one person who accidently (i ****ing hope it was accidently) burned a hole in his school tie, bombed it etc. He then got a pen, and wrote "Hottie" and put an arrow pointing at it on his tie.

Maybe i just know a lot of **** people ( I do live in Glasgow after all ), but Cannabis just seems to make them more ****. "Hottie" boy told me once that i didnt know anything about weed, because i didnt know the chemical formula. People seem to think stories that involve "i was so stoned" or start in "man you just dont know how much weed we smoked" are impressive. But equally they think stories involving "i went home and just had a casual spliff just to relax cause my day was so bad" are of intrest

To me, cannabis is and should be just another option in life, just as different foods are. Its unfortunate that there are all these pathetic stigmas surrounding the drug. Its unfortunate that people are pretentious enough to use the term "stoner", but thats the way it is.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Deffeh
To me, cannabis is and should be just another option in life, just as different foods are. Its unfortunate that there are all these pathetic stigmas surrounding the drug. Its unfortunate that people are pretentious enough to use the term "stoner", but thats the way it is.

If it was completley legal and part of everyday society, it wouldn't be as glamourised (as you put it).

[Deffeh]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
If it was completley legal and part of everyday society, it wouldn't be as glamourised (as you put it).

while i agree with that as regards to cannabis, i have less faith than you with the legalisation of other drugs. A lot of people dont know how to use freedom i feel.

[Steve_G]

some people smoke weed just to smoke weed

some people smoke weed to get high

some people smoke weed to relax

some people smoke weed to help sleep

some people smoke weed to open there "creativity"

etc etc

i smoke alone, wake and bakes and ****, who am i gonna call up, after a long shift at work, whats better then sparkin a joint

btw i dont like people who smoke it just to smoke it, you smoke it to get something out of the deal