so arafat is dead...

[Mek]

im a bit sad that he died but also glad to see the back of him....anyone else share my feelings...

[Dante Hicks]

If he had died some years ago I might have been sad, but the last few years he's behaved as a tyrannical corrupt crony sadly typical of the third world.

Having said that, one can't downplay his historical significance in the Palestenian struggle. I look forward to the revisionist version of history which will pour out of the mainstream press and be faithfully regurgitated by the ignorant here of how his evil terrorist deeds were an affront to peace loving Israel who were forced to defend themselves.

[Burbank]

i hate america.

i liked arafat, i only just found out that he died. i am not ashamed to admit that i am actually crying at the moment.

i now await with great dismay the news that israel has used this time to slaughter many more palestinians.

[Sunday8pm]

To be fair the BBC pointed out in their analysis how there were persecuted by the israeli's.

[themast]

Originally Posted by Burbank

i hate america.

dont we all?

[Ninja_spammer]

Originally Posted by Burbank

i hate america.

why??!

[Ninja_spammer]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

It's a pretty terrible nation, I'm sure the people are OK, but it has a lot to apologise for. Britain is pretty shameful as well.

Compared to what exactly?

[Ninja_spammer]

Such as? and in what sense are they better?


I feel like Im pulling teeth.

[Dead_Meat]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

It's a pretty terrible nation, I'm sure the people are OK, but it has a lot to apologise for. Britain is pretty shameful as well.

A 'terrible' nation? I can't wait for this type of terminology to become universally accepted and used in textbooks on historical stuff.

"Germany 1934 to 1945 - Ideological crack-smoking twats"
"The Western Roman Empire 31BC to 476AD - A Bunch of drunken, incestuous muppets"
"The Fall of Communism 1989 - The Dozy ****ers"
"British Empire, From Conquest to Crap - A bit shit really"

[Dead_Meat]

I'm not arguing with the facts, I'm talking about the use of 'terrible' as a way to describe a nation-state.

But good stuff, anyway...

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat

A 'terrible' nation? I can't wait for this type of terminology to become universally accepted and used in textbooks on historical stuff.

Since it's routine to hear a country refer to themselves as "great" I don't see why the opposite is that problematic.

And I heard a crazy theory that internet forums have slightly different editorial standards than history textbooks.

[melandron]

What I personally hate is this national pride that we are automatically supposed to inherit, personally i think I have no particular alegance to the country, and would have to take every incident on my own personal grounds rather than having to be bound together with the rest of the nation in a national concencus.... Thank god a pledge of allegance to the flag never happened in the UK, (i'd also have trouble deciding which flag to be allied to)

Oh and this national pride rant excludes rugby, although being welsh i don't have a huge amount to be proud of there either.

(edit: prided isn't a word)

[G.K Zhukov]

I had hoped he would recover.
Its a sad day.

[Nusselt]

Apart from when dantes not telling me off i agree with him, like now! if he'd died the revolutionary rather than civic leader history may have been a little kinder. Don't really know what'll happen next with the palestinians there are so many groups all with their own definition of what 'victory' means i don't see how one person will unite them. Sharon has a past as murky as any palestinian but i will give him credit if he withdraws from gaza and hopefully the west bank. I know theres other issues like the right of return but i think the main priority is just letting the palestinians form their own nation in those two areas.

[Dead_Meat]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Since it's routine to hear a country refer to themselves as "great" I don't see why the opposite is that problematic.

And I heard a crazy theory that internet forums have slightly different editorial standards than history textbooks.

I can see it now, Bush standing on the steps of the White House with a big, shit-eating grim on his face, thumbs in the air saying 'GO USA, WE'RE GREAT'

[Dead_Meat]

I was thinking more of the 'WOW THAT'S GREAT' instead of the more sincere use of teh word.

Damn, can't you people lighten up a bit?

[Dace]

were you in the room at the time?

[Emperor Rozenski]

Good riddance! I hope someone suicide bombs his funeral.

[Ninja_spammer]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Sorry its hard to go from, irritation at Ninja_Spammer .

Given that the question wasn't aimed at you and that when you did choose to answer I sought some clarificaiton beyond "OmFG Americas Are t3h evuhl!! free the paleraqian people" , I fail to see the source of your irratation.

Unless you just don't like actually having to back up your statements.

[Event_Horizon]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Well if you want a schema for assessing the worthiness of nations we could look at the wayAmerica treats its population. Of course there are many nations that treat their populations badly and many nations that aren't as free as the United States. However whilst a third world Government is limited in choice about its social policy due to lack of money and pressure from financial institutions and corporations, the United States Government has no such choice. Yet what we see is an a policy iof segregation through imprisonment, putting millions of black people in jail. We see massive inequality with 40 million people not covered by health insurance. Widespread underemployment and lack of real opporunity to progress for large sections of the population. Its a joke really.

Now if we look at the United States record abroad we can see decades of plicy dedicated to undermining democracy, most recently in Haiti and Venezuala. America is the only country convicted of International terorism by the World Court.

The international diplomatic record is littered with examples of America strongarming its various policies through the International Financial Institutions, funding terrorism and state oppression, currently underway in Turkey and Columbia responsible for thousands of deaths. Americas consistent blocking of any peace in the Occupied Territories. Guantanomo Bay is just an other shameful episode.

Other nations have bad records but America's is pretty awful and probably the most shameful in the last 50 years.

I dont mean to be an argumentative twat, but on your idea that America jails blacks unfairly to achieve segregation, is it possible that black people maybe commit more crimes than white people?

Scratch "commit" from above and replace with convicted of more crimes...

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Event_Horizon

I dont mean to be an argumentative twat, but on your idea that America jails blacks unfairly to achieve segregation, is it possible that black people maybe commit more crimes than white people?

Very possibly, but why do you think this might be? The inherent criminallity of blacks or some sort of social / structural reasons?

[Ste]

Originally Posted by Emperor Rozenski

Good riddance! I hope someone suicide bombs his funeral.

Will you be saying something similar when Gerry Adams and the rest of Sinn Fein pass away?
If we can live with them and the atrocities caused by the IRA then why couldn't people live with the Palastinian Authority and their elected leader?

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Emperor Rozenski

Good riddance! I hope someone suicide bombs his funeral.

Nobody Will.

Suicide Bombings are a last resort tactic used by an army with lesser firepower than its enemy that have to rely on desperate tactics.

Besides the funeral itself is in Egypt, its just the Burial thats in The West Bank.

[Event_Horizon]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Very possibly, but why do you think this might be? The inherent criminallity of blacks or some sort of social / structural reasons?

I am not sure, I suppose the most politically correct thing for me to say is that it is a social problem with most of them living in poverty. I guess this is probably the major reason as well, but just because there are reasons does not mean that they should be excused from the legal system. And yes I will grant you that a greater effort should be made to correct this, but I still don't see the jails as an underground ploy for segregation... It sounds too much like the argument that we have never landed on the moon...

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Event_Horizon

I am not sure, I suppose the most politically correct thing for me to say is that it is a social problem with most of them living in poverty. I guess this is probably the major reason as well, but just because there are reasons does not mean that they should be excused from the legal system. And yes I will grant you that a greater effort should be made to correct this, but I still don't see the jails as an underground ploy for segregation... It sounds too much like the argument that we have never landed on the moon...

i think the argument is more the 'black people are more likely to be put in jail than white people given the same offence' thing

[Event_Horizon]

Originally Posted by Phang

i think the argument is more the 'black people are more likely to be put in jail than white people given the same offence' thing

I would disagree with this. Racial profiling gives any minority a very good defense against this stance. While, your statement may be true in some cases, I do not think it is indicative of the whole.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Event_Horizon

And yes I will grant you that a greater effort should be made to correct this, but I still don't see the jails as an underground ploy for segregation....

Well I'm not sure they have to be a ploy as such. While the original phrasing can be read either way, a policy can be segregationalist (?) without deliberately being designed that way. To take an analogy from employment law, let's imagine that I decide all my employees must wear a company uniform, which includes a company hat. Anyone who refuses to wear it will be fired.

Now, racism was almost certainly the furthest thing from my mind when designing such a policy. But, inadvertanly I have prevented from practicing Sikh's from being employed by myself. Therefore, the policy, in employment terms in indirectly discriminatory. In such a way, it's possible that the US prison system is helping to build segregation without actually specfically being designed that way. Very few things are a conspiracy, but they can have effects which look like a conspiracy.

In addition, Phang raises a pertinent point - although again, the reality is more nuanced. There may be some instances where white and black people commit exactly the same crime and in the same circumstances and either side be punishmed more harshly. I've not seen any stats on that recently, so I'll refrain from comment. But what often does happen is certain categories of offences are "racially biased" in offenders, and therefore punishments overall can be racially biased. To give an example, some old figures that did the rounds said that possesion / dealing of crack cocaine was treated upto ten times harsher than posession / dealing of cocaine. Now, it so happens that cocaine, on average is a drug consumed more by white middle class people than something like crack (which is disproportionately consumed by working class non-whites) - therefore the overall figures for punishment come out skewed. Both groups are committing a crime (and effectively breaking the same law) but one side is being more punished than the others. The reason is not a simple "you're white - you get away with a lesser sentence" but that is the end result.

As I say, the situation is more complex than some red neck judges putting all the ******s in the jail house. But most critics of the American justice system appreciate this.

[JonnyBGood]

They should have strapped a bomb to his hospital bed and dropped him out of an aeroplane onto the Knesset.

Two birds, one stone etc etc


PS T&F you self-hating Jew

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

In addition, Phang raises a pertinent point - although again, the reality is more nuanced. There may be some instances where white and black people commit exactly the same crime and in the same circumstances and either side be punishmed more harshly. I've not seen any stats on that recently, so I'll refrain from comment. But what often does happen is certain categories of offences are "racially biased" in offenders, and therefore punishments overall can be racially biased. To give an example, some old figures that did the rounds said that possesion / dealing of crack cocaine was treated upto ten times harsher than posession / dealing of cocaine. Now, it so happens that cocaine, on average is a drug consumed more by white middle class people than something like crack (which is disproportionately consumed by working class non-whites) - therefore the overall figures for punishment come out skewed. Both groups are committing a crime (and effectively breaking the same law) but one side is being more punished than the others. The reason is not a simple "you're white - you get away with a lesser sentence" but that is the end result.

Remember guys, they're out there to get you!

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by Ninja_spammer

Compared to what exactly?

to australia, finland, norway or even canada

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Well if you want a schema for assessing the worthiness of nations we could look at the wayAmerica treats its population. Of course there are many nations that treat their populations badly and many nations that aren't as free as the United States. However whilst a third world Government is limited in choice about its social policy due to lack of money and pressure from financial institutions and corporations, the United States Government has no such choice. Yet what we see is an a policy iof segregation through imprisonment, putting millions of black people in jail. We see massive inequality with 40 million people not covered by health insurance. Widespread underemployment and lack of real opporunity to progress for large sections of the population. Its a joke really.

Now if we look at the United States record abroad we can see decades of plicy dedicated to undermining democracy, most recently in Haiti and Venezuala. America is the only country convicted of International terorism by the World Court.

The international diplomatic record is littered with examples of America strongarming its various policies through the International Financial Institutions, funding terrorism and state oppression, currently underway in Turkey and Columbia responsible for thousands of deaths. Americas consistent blocking of any peace in the Occupied Territories. Guantanomo Bay is just an other shameful episode.

Other nations have bad records but America's is pretty awful and probably the most shameful in the last 50 years.

'eah, 'sactly

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by Ste

Will you be saying something similar when Gerry Adams and the rest of Sinn Fein pass away?
If we can live with them and the atrocities caused by the IRA then why couldn't people live with the Palastinian Authority and their elected leader?

i support sinn fein, and Gerry adams
keep in mind that the IRB held a gun to my great grandfathers head and said "get out of ireland or you will die" and you will see that i should probably be slightly biased the other way but no. i support all peoples right to a free and whole nation. england should relinquish control of ireland. there are no two ways about it. england should relinquish the second nation it stole and then NI should become a part of RoI. whether RoI wants it or not.

and suicide bomb your mother.

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Remember guys, they're out there to get you!

they're all that youve got, kiss another baby YEEEAHHH. they're out to get you.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Burbank

i support sinn fein, and Gerry adams
keep in mind that the IRB held a gun to my great grandfathers head and said "get out of ireland or you will die" and you will see that i should probably be slightly biased the other way but no. i support all peoples right to a free and whole nation. england should relinquish control of ireland. there are no two ways about it. england should relinquish the second nation it stole and then NI should become a part of RoI. whether RoI wants it or not.

and suicide bomb your mother.

Isn't self-determination a wonderful thing



I think I'm rolling my eyes too much in this thread

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

I don't hate myself...I hate all the other Jews

Noam Chomsky is a Jew, do you hate him?

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Burbank

i liked arafat, i only just found out that he died. i am not ashamed to admit that i am actually crying at the moment.

I must admit I'm lolling pretty hard here.

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Isn't self-determination a wonderful thing

explain yourself jonny you drunk poker playing englishman

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Burbank

explain yourself jonny you drunk poker playing englishman

Speaking as an Irishman I can definitively state that there is no metaphysical quality of Irishness which necessitates everyone who possesses it to be united in the same nation-state.

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I must admit I'm lolling pretty hard here.

oi, i will cry if i want to. i consider it a part of my being a mature australian who would knock out anyone who laughed in my face about my shedding tears over the death of a man i respected

ning ning ning

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Speaking as an Irishman I can definitively state that there is no metaphysical quality of Irishness which necessitates everyone who possesses it to be united in the same nation-state.

your right, why dont we reseperate it to firbolg land, danaan land, seirin something land, and the land of those twisted people who lived under balor.

or, northern and southern ireland like under eber and his brother.

or, c, u, l& m

it should not be kept under the same rule as those who slaughtered hundreds of millions throughout their time as the seat of the empire.

again i say ning

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Speaking as an Irishman I can definitively state that there is no metaphysical quality of Irishness which necessitates everyone who possesses it to be united in the same nation-state.

there doesnt need to be, it was stolen by the english many a time, this does not mean that it should stay in this state just because NI is a dump compared to RoI

damnit, australia is more than happy to take NZ back under is wing and nurture it.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Burbank

there doesnt need to be, it was stolen by the english many a time, this does not mean that it should stay in this state just because NI is a dump compared to RoI

damnit, australia is more than happy to take NZ back under is wing and nurture it.

If the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland wish to be united I have no objection against this. Hell if the people of Papua New Guinea and Northern Ireland wish to be united I have no objection against that. Provided a fair and just system of law I just don't care.


Your other post makes so little sense my brain hurts trying to read it.

[JonnyBGood]

What a coincidence that the maniacal mutant seeking to take over the world to prepare for a new master-race is a Jew!

[Ste]

I'm related to one of the top 50 most influential Jewish people in the world apparently. Quite distantly though.

[Burbank]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

What a coincidence that the maniacal mutant seeking to take over the world to prepare for a new master-race is a Jew!

i always liked magneto

[Burbank]

i think jesus might have been simply a reincarnation of buddha. take into account that the reincarnation of buddha for the time was from israel and he was buried in the jewish fashion not the indian one, plus his tomb has footprints with nail shaped holes in each foot.

lets not touch religion till i have had a few more into me.

and i have a solution for this. lets kill all jews but magneto